| Time For All Of Us To Step Up 21:48 - Nov 27 with 2955 views | BrianMcCarthy |
We've had a brilliant season until the last few games.
Far exceeded any of our expectations.
Every team has runs like this.
This is no time to start saying "I told you so".
If we all start harping on, then we have more managerial turmoil, more player turnover, more uncertainty.
Time to step up. |  |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:50 - Nov 27 with 2582 views | Juzzie |
Ain’t gonna happen. Too many ‘told you so’s’, ‘Warburton out’ etc etc etc |  | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:53 - Nov 27 with 2533 views | bosh67 |
The trick is to pick up the players. Sadly when MW told the players they deserved to be 4th they obviously didn't believe it. Strange how they simply can't defend but not easy with one of the back 4 sent off so early second half.
Biggest problem is the defence don't seem to believe they are good enough and Lumley's confidence is in pieces. Not sure how we now solve the defence. Anyone shouting MW out is a lunatic but we can't go on too much longer shipping unlimited goals. They even dried up going forward tonight. |  |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:53 - Nov 27 with 2531 views | OldPedro |
Not the time to change manager but Warburton needs to stop this pattern even if it means switching to a more direct style. The confidence of the players, defenders especially has gone. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:56 - Nov 27 with 2489 views | ted_hendrix |
We are extremely poor at the moment, people have a right to post their opinions we've all been here before and we've most of us 'stepped up' when needed.
Lose 4-0 at home and the never ending ridiculous saga of not keeping a clean sheet and you'll get people moaning.
This is one dreadful run and as far as I see it it's time for the Manager to do the stepping up. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:00 - Nov 27 with 2424 views | bosh67 |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:56 - Nov 27 by ted_hendrix |
We are extremely poor at the moment, people have a right to post their opinions we've all been here before and we've most of us 'stepped up' when needed.
Lose 4-0 at home and the never ending ridiculous saga of not keeping a clean sheet and you'll get people moaning.
This is one dreadful run and as far as I see it it's time for the Manager to do the stepping up. |
Agree. MW has to have a major rethink about what these players can really do. Try and get some results over the next month to keep us afloat and then restructure in January. Defence is just too slow and not really capable of playing the way he wants them to play. Lumley has lost confidence and the defence know it. | |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:13 - Nov 27 with 2312 views | sandsofporto |
Got to say the defence really needs sorting out, maybe MW needs to get someone in to work on that as another guy mentioned on here this evening, suggestion of what’s Gerry Francis doing?
MW must say to his team we are going out with the sole intention of keeping a clean sheet and ensure they do that, it will feel like a win. People will say well thats negative but you need to build from the back, all good teams have a solid defence. Then build on it. |  | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:22 - Nov 27 with 2266 views | VancouverHoop |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:00 - Nov 27 by bosh67 |
Agree. MW has to have a major rethink about what these players can really do. Try and get some results over the next month to keep us afloat and then restructure in January. Defence is just too slow and not really capable of playing the way he wants them to play. Lumley has lost confidence and the defence know it. |
This. Absolutely. We don't have the men at the back to play the high press with speed kind of game that Bayern Munich or RB Leipzig do. They'll try because they're good pros, but eventually (like now!) their confidence will drain away. We need to keep a couple of clean sheets, even if it means four across the back and two defensive mid-fielders in front of them. | | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 02:52 - Nov 28 with 1976 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Completely agree Brian. In-fighting amongst the fans solves nothing. We need to stick together.
However when you say we all have to step up, that includes MW. his staff and the players. There's a clear and obvious problem defensively that MW has been in denial over. Whether that's down to tactics, formations, confidence, lack of ability, or just plain old bad luck, is by-the-by. It's time MW acknowledges the problem and focuses on correcting it.
As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I'd take a scrappy 0-0 at Derby now, just to stop the rot and re-build confidence. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 3:46]
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 08:22 - Nov 28 with 1844 views | CroydonCaptJack |
This is so QPR though isn't it.
Every time we look like we are doing ok, someone up there looks down and says 'hold on, we can't have that' and starts stamping all over us again. |  | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 08:33 - Nov 28 with 1826 views | nix |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:22 - Nov 27 by VancouverHoop |
This. Absolutely. We don't have the men at the back to play the high press with speed kind of game that Bayern Munich or RB Leipzig do. They'll try because they're good pros, but eventually (like now!) their confidence will drain away. We need to keep a couple of clean sheets, even if it means four across the back and two defensive mid-fielders in front of them. |
The thing is though it's not really our formation that's letting us down it's much more basic stuff than that. So for the first goal there actually was a player marking at the back post but he didn't seem to jump or wasn't strong enough to hold off the attacker. I don't know whether that's a coaching thing or a not good enough thing but formations are not going to change that. Also Lumley flapped and fell over so didn't even attempt to make a save. The second goal was partly Wells giving the ball away in a dangerous area and Leistner not being aware of his man running away from him, so by the time the ball came to him he was completely unmarked. The third goal was like musical statues with them walking around us in the penalty area and the fourth was the goalkeeper unfortunately spilling a shot that was okay but not spectacular.
I can understand what people are saying about man marking as in Danny Maddix marking someone out of the game takes up one player and makes us inflexible. But really we can't just leave people flapping around at corners and free kicks. We seem to be marking a space but not aware enough of what's going on around us to see which player is in a dangerous position and cutting out the ball to them. Our defenders don't seem to have the instinct for snuffing out danger, so I do think a spell of being drilled in the basics seems to be essential.
Just to add though, I agree we need to support the team and manager. We can't have more managerial upset now. And getting on their backs achieves nothing. Booing and shouting insults has never improved a performance in any match I've ever been to. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 8:46]
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 08:37 - Nov 28 with 1807 views | Discodroids |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:56 - Nov 27 by ted_hendrix |
We are extremely poor at the moment, people have a right to post their opinions we've all been here before and we've most of us 'stepped up' when needed.
Lose 4-0 at home and the never ending ridiculous saga of not keeping a clean sheet and you'll get people moaning.
This is one dreadful run and as far as I see it it's time for the Manager to do the stepping up. |
I for one, agree wih this post in Totality. |  |
| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 08:45 - Nov 28 with 1790 views | PinnerPaul |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:13 - Nov 27 by sandsofporto |
Got to say the defence really needs sorting out, maybe MW needs to get someone in to work on that as another guy mentioned on here this evening, suggestion of what’s Gerry Francis doing?
MW must say to his team we are going out with the sole intention of keeping a clean sheet and ensure they do that, it will feel like a win. People will say well thats negative but you need to build from the back, all good teams have a solid defence. Then build on it. |
As MW said its pretty basic stuff though - you don't need to be Van Dijk to win a simple header or have played together for umpteen years not to go for the same ball and any side at this level can't be conceding a header 2 yards from goal from a corner.
What I'm saying is that I don't think a new defence or reverting to a 4 is the answer if the players are going to continue to make basic silly errors. | | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 09:05 - Nov 28 with 1750 views | BostonR |
It was obvious from day one that our goalkeepers are not good enough. We need two "f"%k off" central defenders. Fix those problems and this would be a decent team.
Lumley was hopeless last night - an accident waiting to happen. Hall and Leistner - looking League 1 quality at best. |  | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 09:14 - Nov 28 with 1735 views | davman |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 22:13 - Nov 27 by sandsofporto |
Got to say the defence really needs sorting out, maybe MW needs to get someone in to work on that as another guy mentioned on here this evening, suggestion of what’s Gerry Francis doing?
MW must say to his team we are going out with the sole intention of keeping a clean sheet and ensure they do that, it will feel like a win. People will say well thats negative but you need to build from the back, all good teams have a solid defence. Then build on it. |
The team is set up to expose three slow centre backs to try to get the other 7 players creating chances. In this system, any team will concede goals, so a defensive coach won't help unless the whole system changes and we all know that Warburton will not do that.
We all thought that at last we have a manager giving us our "identity". Unfortunately, our "identity" has been there since the money came in - soft, shite and easy to beat. Been a while now, hasn't it? |  |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 09:45 - Nov 28 with 1687 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 21:56 - Nov 27 by ted_hendrix |
We are extremely poor at the moment, people have a right to post their opinions we've all been here before and we've most of us 'stepped up' when needed.
Lose 4-0 at home and the never ending ridiculous saga of not keeping a clean sheet and you'll get people moaning.
This is one dreadful run and as far as I see it it's time for the Manager to do the stepping up. |
Agree with all that, Ted. | |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 10:00 - Nov 28 with 1654 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 08:33 - Nov 28 by nix |
The thing is though it's not really our formation that's letting us down it's much more basic stuff than that. So for the first goal there actually was a player marking at the back post but he didn't seem to jump or wasn't strong enough to hold off the attacker. I don't know whether that's a coaching thing or a not good enough thing but formations are not going to change that. Also Lumley flapped and fell over so didn't even attempt to make a save. The second goal was partly Wells giving the ball away in a dangerous area and Leistner not being aware of his man running away from him, so by the time the ball came to him he was completely unmarked. The third goal was like musical statues with them walking around us in the penalty area and the fourth was the goalkeeper unfortunately spilling a shot that was okay but not spectacular.
I can understand what people are saying about man marking as in Danny Maddix marking someone out of the game takes up one player and makes us inflexible. But really we can't just leave people flapping around at corners and free kicks. We seem to be marking a space but not aware enough of what's going on around us to see which player is in a dangerous position and cutting out the ball to them. Our defenders don't seem to have the instinct for snuffing out danger, so I do think a spell of being drilled in the basics seems to be essential.
Just to add though, I agree we need to support the team and manager. We can't have more managerial upset now. And getting on their backs achieves nothing. Booing and shouting insults has never improved a performance in any match I've ever been to. [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 8:46]
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"The thing is though it's not really our formation that's letting us down it's much more basic stuff than that. So for the first goal there actually was a player marking at the back post but he didn't seem to jump or wasn't strong enough to hold off the attacker. I don't know whether that's a coaching thing or a not good enough thing but formations are not going to change that. Also Lumley flapped and fell over so didn't even attempt to make a save. The second goal was partly Wells giving the ball away in a dangerous area and Leistner not being aware of his man running away from him, so by the time the ball came to him he was completely unmarked. The third goal was like musical statues with them walking around us in the penalty area and the fourth was the goalkeeper unfortunately spilling a shot that was okay but not spectacular."
Good paragraph, Nix.
What's occurred to me most these past few weeks is the amount of individual errors, as you've highlighted. And if we're trying to fix the team, the amount of individual errors is a problem as it's harder to rectify by coaching than systemic problems.
If we say for a moment that Gerry Francis didn't recently say in The Athletic that he's been asked a few times over the years to come to Rangers but probably wouldn't coach outside the Premier League, and if we say for a moment that he comes here, that he drops us into a flat back four with two holding midfielders and two wingers tucked in to help the full-backs... won't the individual errors still happen? | |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 10:46 - Nov 28 with 1593 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Just don't get it about fans/supporters "stepping up"
It's looking to me MW is a one-trick pony with a leg missing ATM |  |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:06 - Nov 28 with 1545 views | nix |
Brian I think the individual errors may still happen but may be cut down if everyone knows exactly what their role is, particularly for set pierces. Atm they look like they're improvising in the moment but they're not good enough or quick thinking enough for that. So if they had a better understanding of exactly the job each one has to do they may not make so many mistakes. Who is taking the far post, who is taking the near post. Who is covering anyone running in from outside the box. Drilling them on watching the player as well as the ball so they don't forget in the heat of battle. Then in open play how close the left and right backs need to be to the opposition forwards so that they aren't leaving too much space between them and the centre backs but they also are near enough to put pressure on the cross. Surely all this can be practised?
Also for our own set pieces we don't look like we've practised those much either. How often has Eze recently failed to clear the first defender for corners? | | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:10 - Nov 28 with 1528 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:06 - Nov 28 by nix |
Brian I think the individual errors may still happen but may be cut down if everyone knows exactly what their role is, particularly for set pierces. Atm they look like they're improvising in the moment but they're not good enough or quick thinking enough for that. So if they had a better understanding of exactly the job each one has to do they may not make so many mistakes. Who is taking the far post, who is taking the near post. Who is covering anyone running in from outside the box. Drilling them on watching the player as well as the ball so they don't forget in the heat of battle. Then in open play how close the left and right backs need to be to the opposition forwards so that they aren't leaving too much space between them and the centre backs but they also are near enough to put pressure on the cross. Surely all this can be practised?
Also for our own set pieces we don't look like we've practised those much either. How often has Eze recently failed to clear the first defender for corners? |
Completely agree with all of that, Nix.
The point I'm wrestling with is whether a change in formation cuts out those errors.
As you say, coaching the basics of set pieces, positioning, defending crosses etc would seem to be time well spent (if they're not doing it already). Maybe that should be moved up the priority list in training. As for a change in formation, I can't make my mind up on that one at the moment. | |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:12 - Nov 28 with 1522 views | YorkRanger |
The one thing I'm clear about is Warburton stays - no question about it.
There is stuff to sort out and he will know that. Lets not have another manager merry go round. We had a complete change of personnel in the Summer, we probably peaked too soon and now are in a dip which we need to just find a way out of.
Some of the stuff being written on Twitter particularly is senseless.
Hold our nerve and remember that our goal this season was to stay up and we are still well placed to do that. |  | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:13 - Nov 28 with 1516 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:12 - Nov 28 by YorkRanger |
The one thing I'm clear about is Warburton stays - no question about it.
There is stuff to sort out and he will know that. Lets not have another manager merry go round. We had a complete change of personnel in the Summer, we probably peaked too soon and now are in a dip which we need to just find a way out of.
Some of the stuff being written on Twitter particularly is senseless.
Hold our nerve and remember that our goal this season was to stay up and we are still well placed to do that. |
Agreed.
And remember that I'm coming over for Christmas. My record at Rangers live games since moving to Ireland is freakishly good. | |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:31 - Nov 28 with 1467 views | Dorse |
Last night was painful to watch but also very interesting as, I think, it showed some of the issues that have been caused simply by having a couple of players out (in this case Barbet and Hugill. I don't count Cameron - can't see what he does that Leistner doesn't).
Playing Wells as a lone striker supported by Chair (presumably, although it could have been Eze or even both) was a mistake from the kick-off. The opposition already knew exactly how to nullify any attacking threat we might have posed. Our strikers were never going to win a header against their backline, so there would be no second-balls to chase and every pass was going to be a channel ball. The simple counter to this was to compress the space between the midfield and the front players. Even when Manning and Kane were brought in to overlap and potentially overload the midfield, they were allowed to have possession out wide because there was nobody available in the middle.
Tactically, we were fcuked (not in the good way) until we brought Hugill into the mix but with Wallace's sending off (dodgy call in slow-mo but I can absolutely see why they gave it in realtime) we couldn't use him properly. It was very frustrating to watch, however, there were bright spots: Eze's balance and close control, Kane's improvement in delivery over the past couple of matches, Wells' movement, Scowen's moustache but that's about it.
I don't want to blame individual players as I don't believe it was necessarily any one player's fault. I do, however, feel that both Manning and Eze are running on fumes at the moment but I can't see who, if anyone can give them a rest. In reference to the OP, I think this is where we are really going to have to step up: MW is going to be getting pelters the minute he names a team that doesn't include Eze or Manning but we need to keep in mind what happened to Freeman last season when he was run into the ground by Herr Island. If we (as a group both physical and digital) lay into the team before a ball has been kicked and then have a pop at players because they aren't Manning or Eze, we are not helping anyone.
A 4-0 home loss sucks but killing off two of our best players through overuse sucks so much more. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:38 - Nov 28 with 1447 views | Juzzie |
I think this nicely sums up Brian's request to keep the faith.
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| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:40 - Nov 28 with 1440 views | nix |
Excellent post Dorse. Yes there's things that can be worked on but we have to have faith in the overall direction of the club and the things the management are trying to do. Giving the team encouragement on the pitch has to be more effective than slagging them off all the time. | | | |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:51 - Nov 28 with 1402 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Time For All Of Us To Step Up on 12:31 - Nov 28 by Dorse |
Last night was painful to watch but also very interesting as, I think, it showed some of the issues that have been caused simply by having a couple of players out (in this case Barbet and Hugill. I don't count Cameron - can't see what he does that Leistner doesn't).
Playing Wells as a lone striker supported by Chair (presumably, although it could have been Eze or even both) was a mistake from the kick-off. The opposition already knew exactly how to nullify any attacking threat we might have posed. Our strikers were never going to win a header against their backline, so there would be no second-balls to chase and every pass was going to be a channel ball. The simple counter to this was to compress the space between the midfield and the front players. Even when Manning and Kane were brought in to overlap and potentially overload the midfield, they were allowed to have possession out wide because there was nobody available in the middle.
Tactically, we were fcuked (not in the good way) until we brought Hugill into the mix but with Wallace's sending off (dodgy call in slow-mo but I can absolutely see why they gave it in realtime) we couldn't use him properly. It was very frustrating to watch, however, there were bright spots: Eze's balance and close control, Kane's improvement in delivery over the past couple of matches, Wells' movement, Scowen's moustache but that's about it.
I don't want to blame individual players as I don't believe it was necessarily any one player's fault. I do, however, feel that both Manning and Eze are running on fumes at the moment but I can't see who, if anyone can give them a rest. In reference to the OP, I think this is where we are really going to have to step up: MW is going to be getting pelters the minute he names a team that doesn't include Eze or Manning but we need to keep in mind what happened to Freeman last season when he was run into the ground by Herr Island. If we (as a group both physical and digital) lay into the team before a ball has been kicked and then have a pop at players because they aren't Manning or Eze, we are not helping anyone.
A 4-0 home loss sucks but killing off two of our best players through overuse sucks so much more. |
Great post.
The comms team last night mentioned that forest always play that formation, a tight 442. So, expecting that, I can see why Warburton went with pace and passing to try and unlock them rather than two up front and perhaps play into their hands. But it was a flip of the coin and our 541 didn't work either, I'm afraid | |
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