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Bleak 11:13 - Dec 31 with 3669 viewsFrankRightguard

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Bleak on 11:35 - Dec 31 with 2854 viewsstevec

Bit of an eye opener.

85th of 91 and only Bolton and Southend losing more games. Amazing how compliant we’ve all become with this level of sh it.
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Bleak on 11:45 - Dec 31 with 2819 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Bleak on 11:35 - Dec 31 by stevec

Bit of an eye opener.

85th of 91 and only Bolton and Southend losing more games. Amazing how compliant we’ve all become with this level of sh it.


What's the solution Steve?
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Bleak on 11:47 - Dec 31 with 2812 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Just realised this is over the Calendar year rather than the season so includes last season's collapse.

Not as bleak as first feared.
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Bleak on 11:49 - Dec 31 with 2803 viewsrsonist

Bleak on 11:35 - Dec 31 by stevec

Bit of an eye opener.

85th of 91 and only Bolton and Southend losing more games. Amazing how compliant we’ve all become with this level of sh it.


Given it reduces everything going on with the club down to P46 W12 D9 L25 I'd say it was more of an eye closer.
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Bleak on 11:51 - Dec 31 with 2795 viewsdaveB

Bleak on 11:35 - Dec 31 by stevec

Bit of an eye opener.

85th of 91 and only Bolton and Southend losing more games. Amazing how compliant we’ve all become with this level of sh it.


what do you mean we've all been compliant with us having a poor year?
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Bleak on 12:09 - Dec 31 with 2747 viewsThGrimRanger

only 2 teams (Bolton and Southend) have lost more games.

strangely things have felt better this year for me than 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 when we were one of the higher spending clubs in the league and doing no better. Being pretty shit feels better when it's done on a tight budget.

The money spent / lack of success combo in the first 2 years after our last relegation was as bad a failure as the premier league debacles.

TheGrimRanger

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Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 with 2694 viewsstevec

Bleak on 11:51 - Dec 31 by daveB

what do you mean we've all been compliant with us having a poor year?


Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]
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Bleak on 12:50 - Dec 31 with 2631 viewsdaveB

Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 by stevec

Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]


can't agree with that at all, fans have being going berserk wanting managers sacked, players replaced etc for the last 5/50 years. Ramsey was booed out of the job as was Hasselbaink. Holloway got pelters after every defeat or draw, McClaren didn't get the easiest of rides and now Warburton is getting the same. Players like Scowen have had to delete social media accounts due to the abuse they get when they don't play well. We're a long way from a fan base accepting anything.

No one has accepted failure but plenty are understanding as to why it is happening as the spending and plastering over cracks wasn't sustainable.

I personally don't see how telling Joe Lumley he is shit after he makes a cock up will help make things better but if thats the answer then great.

Also the club haven't exactly been slow to react to failure. Ramsey and JFH were both sacked after bad runs, McClaren the same and Holloway was booted out for doing what he'd been asked to do.

As a fanbase we are absolutely mental. In the past few years we had redknapp slated for not picking kids so in came Ramsey who was slated for picking too many and being too attacking with no real idea how to defend, JFH was slated for being too boring and defensive and not attacking enough. Holloway was slated for being too direct and finishing mid table, McLCaren was slated for not being attacking enough and not really playing kids and now Warburton is getting it for not being direct and playing out from the back whilst not being able to defend.

Blimey that went on a bit, Before Hunter goes all out on me I appreciate it's not every fan I am just generalising for the sake of a post on an internet forum.

Happy New year
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Bleak on 12:50 - Dec 31 with 2631 viewsR_from_afar

Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 by stevec

Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]


We're not accepting though, Steve. Look at all the threads on here. The ire on social media which has led to players coming off those platforms. The booing of our own players, the booing of the team. The low attendances at some games. I don't see how we are accepting, and in any case, what else can be done which isn't already being done?

The club is working on the infrastructure but that stuff can't be done quickly, it takes ages. We can't spend a lot due to FFP, even if we wanted to. We are bringing through our own players, getting the wage bill down, and moving on acquired players at a profit. Results could be better, granted, but we are doing better than most fans expected *and* playing in a far more attractive way.

What is missing, in your view? Not sarcasm, a genuine question.

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

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Bleak on 12:54 - Dec 31 with 2614 viewsNov77

Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 by stevec

Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]


Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much.

Well in the forty+ years I’ve supported this club I’ve never once thought of Burnley, Brighton, Watford or Bournemouth being bigger or better than us, but there they are competing in the premier league, I’ve never thought of Fulham or Brentford as being above us in any way, yet they are, better run than us and doing better than us again.

Clint Hill was 100% right, we are far too accepting of failure and the lowering of standards.

Poll: December goal of the month - vote for your favourite R's goal during December

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Bleak on 12:58 - Dec 31 with 2588 viewsrsonist

Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 by stevec

Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]


Lot of waffle just to excuse yourself having a big blamey whinge when we don't win every game. Compromise, patience and perspective does not equate to a culture of failure. It's called being constructive.
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Bleak on 13:03 - Dec 31 with 2566 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Bleak on 12:54 - Dec 31 by Nov77

Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much.

Well in the forty+ years I’ve supported this club I’ve never once thought of Burnley, Brighton, Watford or Bournemouth being bigger or better than us, but there they are competing in the premier league, I’ve never thought of Fulham or Brentford as being above us in any way, yet they are, better run than us and doing better than us again.

Clint Hill was 100% right, we are far too accepting of failure and the lowering of standards.


"Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much."

If it wasn't for FFP, our owners would have spent the last few years throwing squillions of sterling at a basket of a club. They've made many mistakes but I don't think it's they that have dampened hope or expectations, it's FFP.

Conversely, I have more hope and expectation now that due to FFP, Hoos and Ferdinand we're finally being run well.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

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Bleak on 13:05 - Dec 31 with 2559 viewsrsonist

Bleak on 12:54 - Dec 31 by Nov77

Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much.

Well in the forty+ years I’ve supported this club I’ve never once thought of Burnley, Brighton, Watford or Bournemouth being bigger or better than us, but there they are competing in the premier league, I’ve never thought of Fulham or Brentford as being above us in any way, yet they are, better run than us and doing better than us again.

Clint Hill was 100% right, we are far too accepting of failure and the lowering of standards.


It may be slow going and sometimes not come off at all but it's completely false to say that anyone, whether fans or board, has rolled over and accepted that what Burnley Brighton etc do is out of our reach. (This is without going the fact that several of the clubs you mention are heavily bankrolled at a loss or are part of global pyramid schemes or have particular advantages wrt data science that are hard to replicate).
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Bleak on 13:07 - Dec 31 with 2547 viewsTheChef

Thank goodness for the ignore button on stevec


Poll: How old is everyone on here?

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Bleak on 13:10 - Dec 31 with 2530 viewsrsonist

Bleak on 13:03 - Dec 31 by BrianMcCarthy

"Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much."

If it wasn't for FFP, our owners would have spent the last few years throwing squillions of sterling at a basket of a club. They've made many mistakes but I don't think it's they that have dampened hope or expectations, it's FFP.

Conversely, I have more hope and expectation now that due to FFP, Hoos and Ferdinand we're finally being run well.


Spot on, and also whatever we do isn't going to happen overnight, or even over a couple of seasons. There are clubs in the league below never mind the Prem who have spent steady years building the base we're attempting to catch up to.
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Bleak on 13:12 - Dec 31 with 2521 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Bleak on 12:31 - Dec 31 by stevec

Something I’ve been banging on about for last five seasons I suppose. Something Clint Hill pointed out on one of the podcasts.

Fans, players, we seem to have become far too accepting of failure.

I noticed West Ham have recently made up a derisory song for one of their under performers, Arsenal fans made their thoughts clear about Xhaka, I don’t necessarily agree with that but at the same time it shows a support base that expects better.

Understand the decency of many on here who counter any criticism of the club with the effects of FFP, defend players who drop almighty clangers with ‘it can happen to anyone’, ‘he just needs more time’ etc, all life affirming stuff and admirable in many ways but at the same time creating a perception that failure is perfectly acceptable. Not quite the way to compete in a professional sport, least that’s how I see it.

As the dust settles feel slightly sorry for Lumleys present plight, but interesting that this time fans do finally en masse seem to be saying this level of performance is no longer acceptable. Curious if this becomes a turning point and the club get the message.
[Post edited 31 Dec 2019 12:40]


I've never agreed with Clint Hill on this one, Steve.

What's more, I'm sceptical about taking life lessons from someone who accepts the friendship and wages of Joey Barton.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

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Bleak on 13:16 - Dec 31 with 2503 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Just a reminder, that table covers this season and last. A similar table of this season alone would have us mid way.

Pretty much useless if you are trying to justify a POV that the club is going down the drain.
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Bleak on 13:21 - Dec 31 with 2479 viewsNov77

Bleak on 13:03 - Dec 31 by BrianMcCarthy

"Arguably our ownerships greatest triumph is killing off any hopes or expectations of the fans. We seem to now have accepted that we’re only a small club who can’t expect much."

If it wasn't for FFP, our owners would have spent the last few years throwing squillions of sterling at a basket of a club. They've made many mistakes but I don't think it's they that have dampened hope or expectations, it's FFP.

Conversely, I have more hope and expectation now that due to FFP, Hoos and Ferdinand we're finally being run well.


Who was responsible for FFP?

The same owners?

Poll: December goal of the month - vote for your favourite R's goal during December

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Bleak on 14:44 - Dec 31 with 2365 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Bleak on 13:21 - Dec 31 by Nov77

Who was responsible for FFP?

The same owners?


Well, it's not their fault, it's the Authorities that voted it in.....

...until we remember that Fernandes actually voted for it!

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

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Bleak on 15:37 - Dec 31 with 2262 viewsWestbourneR

Calm down everyone.

We're having a very good season considering the tough but necessary cost cutting.

Warburton is a very good manager and we're moving in the right direction.

Poll: Should JFH get the sack?

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Bleak on 15:38 - Dec 31 with 2262 viewssilverbirch

We had a terrible jan-May, made widespread changes and have had a fair aug-dec. Unless we have another terrible jan-May, we are improving
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Bleak on 15:56 - Dec 31 with 2210 viewsPinnerPaul

It would be bleak if the season ran Jan - Dec - fortunately it doesn't!
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Bleak on 19:14 - Dec 31 with 2034 viewsdaveB

Bleak on 13:16 - Dec 31 by BazzaInTheLoft

Just a reminder, that table covers this season and last. A similar table of this season alone would have us mid way.

Pretty much useless if you are trying to justify a POV that the club is going down the drain.


Brighton would be a lot higher as well
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Bleak on 20:30 - Dec 31 with 1955 viewsCLAREMAN1995

very intense and interesting posts on this thread shows the passion without much aggression thankfully.
Lost in the discussion is the simple but most telling stat of all we are -26 in goal difference and only FOUR teams have a worse ratio than that.So even while were playing exciting attractive football its the other end that really matters and we are pathetic there sadly
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Bleak on 00:53 - Jan 1 with 1809 viewsLblock

I’m with SteveC

That old saying you can prove anything with facts..... well there be some facts at the depths we’re now plummeting with Bungle the constant

Happy New Year .... if it’s worse than the last 52 weeks following this tinpot, barrel of frogs, shit storm club that I’ve come to love and hate then I will simply cry

Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal

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