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Tactical subtleties 14:07 - Jan 19 with 2129 viewsdannyblue

Really interesting chess going on yesterday.

Anyone else notice that we’re doing this thing with the full backs where they come inside into midfield. I notice it more with left back but Todd Kane did it too some times. They don’t always do it though and I haven’t quite worked out what the cues are yet. I presume it’s to stop being broken against through the middle and I know Man City often do it.

I liked the way Leeds in particular often passed into space that a midfielder was running in to rather than to feet, especially first half. Normally straight pass and angled run. Very effective, especially against out midfield two.

I thought they were also quite clever when they set up to play out from the back, and more and more of their players came deep to show for the ball, drawing our markers with them, and then they went long down the middle. It nearly worked for that chance when bamford our fought masterson, Kelly got caught in no mans land (again), but he screwed up the lob.

Alioski at left back was interesting, and he kept trying these big right-footed passes in field. Didn’t work for them though. Yet it was very rare that bright got to go at him one on on as cooper or someone would always come across when defending.

We did great rotational fouling on Hernandez. He really took a bit of a kicking and I’m not sure anyone got pulled up on it. Similarly bamford was nastier than I realised - always leaving a bit after the ball had been played and the ref was looking the other way.

Amazing how often we got the ball in good positions ready to break and they bullied us off it. Out layoffs and triangles didn’t work as well as normal.

Having said that the dribbling from BOS and ebs was fantastic and drew Leeds out of shape, but they never quite managed to release it into the resulting space sadly

Leeds, as others have, often targeted the back post. While kane didn’t win the headers he did by and large a good job of stopping his man getting a clean header on target.
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Tactical subtleties on 14:21 - Jan 19 with 2061 viewsnix

Very interesting analysis. I agree Kane has been much better at putting off the player in crosses recently. They must have been working on this as other teams often target his side. He can't outjump the player generally but still can do enough to put him off.
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Tactical subtleties on 18:40 - Jan 19 with 1818 viewsT_Block

Yes ,saw it and agree -I suppose it was the close gaps in midfield and make them go down the wings,

Really impressed with Leeds looked well coached in all the phases of the game.From the back to the front clear rehearsed patterns of play giving quick one two touch passes in triangles ,pass and move.

Rangers did not press their left and right back but just let them play out from the back.Then when we hade the ball we didn't play out from the back at all from about the first 15 minutes, but hit it long especially second half.

That all looked like a pre-game decision from Warburton.But it effectively gave them possession as the stats are clear on.Leeds possession and pressure was immense and frankly I am surprised they did not score.I suggest Warburton decided to fill up our defensive third with bodies as the best option as frankly their forward line is not even good for the championship.At corners BOS was the only man forward.Wells put in a huge shift yesterday defensively which deserves comment.

What do others think?
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Tactical subtleties on 20:08 - Jan 19 with 1720 viewsloftboy

Tactical subtleties on 18:40 - Jan 19 by T_Block

Yes ,saw it and agree -I suppose it was the close gaps in midfield and make them go down the wings,

Really impressed with Leeds looked well coached in all the phases of the game.From the back to the front clear rehearsed patterns of play giving quick one two touch passes in triangles ,pass and move.

Rangers did not press their left and right back but just let them play out from the back.Then when we hade the ball we didn't play out from the back at all from about the first 15 minutes, but hit it long especially second half.

That all looked like a pre-game decision from Warburton.But it effectively gave them possession as the stats are clear on.Leeds possession and pressure was immense and frankly I am surprised they did not score.I suggest Warburton decided to fill up our defensive third with bodies as the best option as frankly their forward line is not even good for the championship.At corners BOS was the only man forward.Wells put in a huge shift yesterday defensively which deserves comment.

What do others think?


To be fair the possession stat is complete and utter bôllocks, another thing invented by sky to make them seem intelligent, the only thing that wins games is the ball in the onion bag, best example being the 2014 play off final.

favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
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Tactical subtleties on 22:57 - Jan 19 with 1547 viewsAntti_Heinola

Tactical subtleties on 20:08 - Jan 19 by loftboy

To be fair the possession stat is complete and utter bôllocks, another thing invented by sky to make them seem intelligent, the only thing that wins games is the ball in the onion bag, best example being the 2014 play off final.


Only if you're looking at it from the one-eyed assumption that such stats are studied with the idea that more possession always equals wins. No one thinks that, but that data and tons of other data can tell you a lot about your team, how it performs, *why* it won or lost. Mourinho for example prefers less possession - his belief is that when you have possession you are in the most danger, because if you lose it the opposition can break and score. Guardiola obviously favours the opposite. Warburton has clearly approached some games where he wants us to dominate possession, and others where he's less concerned about possession. If you don't find it interesting, that's fine, that's your prerogative. But don't just dismiss this out of hand because in a match once we won despite not having much of the ball.
To just dismiss it as b0ll0cks is b0llocks, I'm afraid.

Bare bones.

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Tactical subtleties on 00:17 - Jan 20 with 1458 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Tactical subtleties on 20:08 - Jan 19 by loftboy

To be fair the possession stat is complete and utter bôllocks, another thing invented by sky to make them seem intelligent, the only thing that wins games is the ball in the onion bag, best example being the 2014 play off final.


That was slightly different as we played the bulk of the match with 10 men. After the sending off we had little choice but to park the bus and try to catch Derby on the break.
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Tactical subtleties on 04:42 - Jan 20 with 1394 viewsMatch82

Tactical subtleties on 20:08 - Jan 19 by loftboy

To be fair the possession stat is complete and utter bôllocks, another thing invented by sky to make them seem intelligent, the only thing that wins games is the ball in the onion bag, best example being the 2014 play off final.


In a stats means nothing except for number of goals scored. But if you're looking at 5,10,15 games and saying which of those teams is more likely to be doing better in the league, stats will more often than not give you a better indication of who the better team is.

Personally think possession is a bit overrated as a stat because of the way some teams fark about forever knocking the ball back and forth between defenders, but possession in the other teams half starts to make more sense
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Tactical subtleties on 14:35 - Jan 20 with 1170 viewsdannyblue

Other thing I wanted to say was we were awful with our own defensive throw ins, almost always conceding possession. Most teams have a way of working it up the line to win another throw in in safer territory. We always tried to put it to Nakhi's chest or feet, but weren't set up to quickly receive from him and they nicked it every time.

We are a small team. Kelly's small. Masterson's not the tallest. It's a good reason to keep Wallace in the team; that and his experience.

I'm not the first to suggest it, but I'd be intrigued to see Manning in the Amos roll. He's got the legs. He's tenacious. And he's got a range of passing. I think he might be more productive for us there both defending and attacking.

On possession...horses for courses. Sometimes you want it, sometimes you don't. With our squad we can play on the break or keep the ball which is an advantage. Of course away at Cardiff showed how easy it is to lose while dominating possession. That stat is interesting, but only in context.
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Tactical subtleties on 14:33 - Jan 22 with 956 viewsTGRRRSSS

I think the problem with the Possession stats" is that so many sides waste time and possible advantage by brilliant pass completion with he ball and not almost understanding what the top top teams are doing with it.

Swansalona is the 2009-2012 era especially following the departure of Rodgers is the best example.

Derby of course had loads of ball but dillied and dallied with it - especially after the red card - and paid the price in 2014.

It is better to maintain the ball - but often you see sides not really understanding why they've got it and more importantly WHERE they've got it, and whats around them.

We've given away a lot of silly goals this way.

You need in my view to have the understanding of where you are and what your doing and what your trying to do - and to many don't tick all these boxes - especially us at times this season.
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Tactical subtleties on 15:22 - Jan 22 with 905 viewskarl

Tactical subtleties on 14:33 - Jan 22 by TGRRRSSS

I think the problem with the Possession stats" is that so many sides waste time and possible advantage by brilliant pass completion with he ball and not almost understanding what the top top teams are doing with it.

Swansalona is the 2009-2012 era especially following the departure of Rodgers is the best example.

Derby of course had loads of ball but dillied and dallied with it - especially after the red card - and paid the price in 2014.

It is better to maintain the ball - but often you see sides not really understanding why they've got it and more importantly WHERE they've got it, and whats around them.

We've given away a lot of silly goals this way.

You need in my view to have the understanding of where you are and what your doing and what your trying to do - and to many don't tick all these boxes - especially us at times this season.


Agree with bulk of this, modern game is about tempo. The best teams know how to conserve their energy and play at a high tempo at the right time, whether that is closing down as a team and winning the ball back in a dangerous area or winning it deep in your own area and playing out at pace with quick passing breaking defensive lines.
Doesn't necessarily have to be for long periods but quite often you can get a rhythm going for 15-20 mins and it's enough to dictate who's in charge of the game, taking advantage of that is then the key of course.
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Tactical subtleties on 16:39 - Jan 22 with 822 viewsRBlock

Tactical subtleties on 15:22 - Jan 22 by karl

Agree with bulk of this, modern game is about tempo. The best teams know how to conserve their energy and play at a high tempo at the right time, whether that is closing down as a team and winning the ball back in a dangerous area or winning it deep in your own area and playing out at pace with quick passing breaking defensive lines.
Doesn't necessarily have to be for long periods but quite often you can get a rhythm going for 15-20 mins and it's enough to dictate who's in charge of the game, taking advantage of that is then the key of course.


Agree with the tempo comment, definitely. Look at Liverpool v Manchester United the other day; Liverpool came flying out of the traps, moving the ball fast, pressing high, and being aggresive. As the half went on that slowed down, and they became more patient and methodical, before coming out at the start of the second half at pace again. It was about knowing when to go at it 100%, and when to slow the game down, dominate possession, and catch your breath.
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Tactical subtleties on 16:56 - Jan 22 with 792 viewsR_from_afar

Interesting thread. I recently read that Liverpool have worked out, supposedly using machine learning, that the best way of defending, statistically, is to flood the centre of the pitch.

For that reason, when the opposition are attacking, they create a square block of ten outfield players in the centre of the pitch and try to force them to go round them....

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

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Tactical subtleties on 17:28 - Jan 22 with 770 viewssmegma

Tactical subtleties on 20:08 - Jan 19 by loftboy

To be fair the possession stat is complete and utter bôllocks, another thing invented by sky to make them seem intelligent, the only thing that wins games is the ball in the onion bag, best example being the 2014 play off final.


Is the correct analysis. Sky come out with all this b0ll0cks which enables people who only watch football on TV to sound like they know what they're talking about down the pub or online.
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