| New Labour leader 10:40 - Apr 4 with 10695 views | supahoopsa |
Who's your money on?
Sir Kier is the only credible candidate IMHO |  |
| Blue & White hooped blood runs through the family |
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| New Labour leader on 11:37 - Apr 6 with 1146 views | stowmarketrange |
| New Labour leader on 10:27 - Apr 6 by stevec |
When we come out of Coronavirus Labour have got an opportunity but they’ll probably blow it.
If the Tories tell us it’s another bout of prolonged austerity and more tax rises to pay for this (we are paying more tax now than we’ve ever done) I don’t think the public will stand for it.
If a party stands for greater self sufficiency, invest heavily in its own manufacturing and stop importing cheap Chinese products (yes, that’s all of us) and treat that State as a pariah, it’ll transform the country and where elections will be won. |
When I started work in 1978 I was paying 33% income tax and the highest earners were handing over 85% in tax.Now it’s 20% and 50%,so I can’t see how we’re paying more tax now than before.
Mind you back then we had library’s,youth clubs,social services and a properly funded nhs.Before austerity ripped the heart out of the country for those people who needed the public services. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 11:40 - Apr 6 with 1131 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| New Labour leader on 11:37 - Apr 6 by stowmarketrange |
When I started work in 1978 I was paying 33% income tax and the highest earners were handing over 85% in tax.Now it’s 20% and 50%,so I can’t see how we’re paying more tax now than before.
Mind you back then we had library’s,youth clubs,social services and a properly funded nhs.Before austerity ripped the heart out of the country for those people who needed the public services. |
Nice post. I’d missed the original by SteveC.
The various tax increases proposed by Labour in 2017 and 2019 were both lower than anytime under Thatcher. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 13:21 - Apr 6 with 1039 views | plasmahoop |
| New Labour leader on 11:37 - Apr 6 by stowmarketrange |
When I started work in 1978 I was paying 33% income tax and the highest earners were handing over 85% in tax.Now it’s 20% and 50%,so I can’t see how we’re paying more tax now than before.
Mind you back then we had library’s,youth clubs,social services and a properly funded nhs.Before austerity ripped the heart out of the country for those people who needed the public services. |
It's an interesting comparison. We do spend 7 percent of gdp on the NHS today, compared to 4 percent in the late 70 s. I guess the treatments are a lot more expensive nowadays, and with the ageing population demand is only heading one way regardless of coronavirus. It would be interesting to know how all the stealth taxes compare nowadays compared to then. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 13:31 - Apr 6 with 1013 views | BucksRanger |
| New Labour leader on 13:21 - Apr 6 by plasmahoop |
It's an interesting comparison. We do spend 7 percent of gdp on the NHS today, compared to 4 percent in the late 70 s. I guess the treatments are a lot more expensive nowadays, and with the ageing population demand is only heading one way regardless of coronavirus. It would be interesting to know how all the stealth taxes compare nowadays compared to then. |
I'll start shall I?
VAT in 1978 - 8%
VAT now - 20% |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 13:42 - Apr 6 with 996 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 09:36 - Apr 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The Trade Unions got Miliband elected in 2010. The voting system was different then. Do you mean the Trade Unions are to blame? |
You are correct, but it was a stitch-up that blew up in their faces.
What happened is the Militant Moderates who controlled the party put forward the candidate they saw as Blaris successor David Miliband. A proper Blairite. Ed Miliband realising a small shift to the left had happened in the party (yes it started way back then), entered the fray against his brother as he knew he could win if he was not as bad as his brother and was just slightly less right-wing than him. But for the Militant Moderates, this was an outrage, even though he is just as much as Moderate as them. It still was not their star man and he also would work with the Unions even if it was just to gain power, which they privately hate.
On the left Abbot was put forward as the left always does as a token effort to show the left is not dead. Not expecting to get on the list as the process has been so massively rigged by the Blairites as they created a need of a certain percentage of MP's to get a nomination just to get on the ballot paper.
However, the right wanted their man David in so, now they needed Abbott to pull votes off his brother Ed so, David could be crowned a Blair successor. Thus they gave nominations to Abbott to get her on the ballot. They then at all hustings put her front and centre even ahead of David to make sure the votes went her way just enough to stop Ed.
It worked for the membership, but not for the Unions who put Ed as the leader and he won. David picked up his toys and went west with Onna King to the capitalist USA.
The backfire was not Abbott, it was they had lost control of the Unions who had become more left-wing with the lack of change from Blairites when they were in power.
The response from the Moderate Militants was to remove the Union voting power, which they had actually used in the past with right-wing Union leaders to block the left like Abbott.
This was the mistake they made as now if by some other mistake (which they made) the left could get a candidate past all the Yes-men MP's as they did with Corbyn they would have a chance to avoid the right-wing Union leaders and just appeal to the membership directly. You know, with that thing called Socialist polices.
From the rights point of view, this mess was of their own making, from the left, the right made mistakes while in full control of the party and the left had a small opportunity to open up the party to more democracy.
The problem of MP's nominations is still a massive blocker for the left and this is Corbyn's failure for not completely making the party democratic. When the left gets back in again, that mistake will be corrected for sure and the right will face deselections democratically all over.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [Post edited 6 Apr 2020 13:47]
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| New Labour leader on 13:44 - Apr 6 with 991 views | LazyFan |
| New Labour leader on 13:21 - Apr 6 by plasmahoop |
It's an interesting comparison. We do spend 7 percent of gdp on the NHS today, compared to 4 percent in the late 70 s. I guess the treatments are a lot more expensive nowadays, and with the ageing population demand is only heading one way regardless of coronavirus. It would be interesting to know how all the stealth taxes compare nowadays compared to then. |
Well, there is the cost of all those tory invented PFI contracts ramped up under New Labour and you are correct along with corporate drug companies who can charge what they like as they know the NHS has to pay it or people die.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
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| New Labour leader on 13:45 - Apr 6 with 988 views | R_from_afar |
| New Labour leader on 11:52 - Apr 5 by Clive_Anderson |
Yes, 10 years of carefully getting the government finances under control to a point where they were free to spend a bit more again and all that work has been undone (and more) by the virus.
I can't see any party with the motivation to make those hard choices again in a hurry, so we're going to be heading towards a serious debt crisis in the near future.
I see Starmer is already talking about spending more money in his first full day in the job. |
Starmer might be talking about spending more but the current government has committed us to spending north of £105bn on a 20 minute saving on a trip between London and Birmingham... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| New Labour leader on 14:04 - Apr 6 with 954 views | plasmahoop |
| New Labour leader on 13:31 - Apr 6 by BucksRanger |
I'll start shall I?
VAT in 1978 - 8%
VAT now - 20% |
Booze, fags, petrol, road tax, ni, pensions, insurance premiums, loads more I'm sure. Despite all these the government still has an annual defecit. Whoever is in charge I can only foresee higher taxes and fewer public services. | | | |
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| New Labour leader on 14:05 - Apr 6 with 953 views | derbyhoop |
And most of western Europe spends considerably more on their health service (over 9% in many countries). And patients still have to contribute.
As an example from France, a visit to the GP costs 25 EUR. Prescriptions are generally free, if you have a health card (Carte Vitale) covering 70% and top-up insurance making up the rest. Still had to pay for 1 of the wife's medicines this morning. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| New Labour leader on 14:18 - Apr 6 with 920 views | BostonR |
Kier Starmer has a long-road ahead. The Tories have an 80 seat majority which will take some shifting.
Obviously the agenda has shifted with the virus and the financial situation. Boris cannot now deliver to the red wall who swung towards the Tories so in time those voters will push back. Brexit will be hard to deliver and we need to see what sort of world will we return to after Covid.
Al least, Labour have a genuine heavyweight who has bags on integrity, intelligence and respect. |  | | |
| New Labour leader on 17:15 - Apr 6 with 802 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Ed Miliband in the shadow cabinet. |  |
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