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Season Ticket Update 12:15 - Sep 25 with 11313 viewsdaveB

https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/season-ticket-sales-suspended-250920/

No new Season Ticket Sales
if you pay by Direct Debit they won't be taking your money

Whole thing being reviewed by the club and they are open to suggestions by emailing boxoffice@qpr.co.uk

The streams are being reviewed for ST Holders as well
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Season Ticket Update on 15:37 - Sep 25 with 2229 viewsdaveB

Season Ticket Update on 15:28 - Sep 25 by BklynRanger

Another option would be a 'stream season ticket' where the cost drops down to an amount that covers the stream for all home games that can be streamed. £10 x what is it 21 or so? = £220 for the stream ST.

So you'd be committing to paying for the stream either up front or monthly - club gets more stable revenue than adhoc payments every week and its an easier gesture for us to make than wave the whole £66 a month (in my case anyway).

Plus (and sorry to be negative but it's hardly impossible) if the season starts going down the toilet people will be more likely to just leave that lesser direct debit alone whereas logging on and paying a tener to watch a losing run may not exactly bring in a lot of revenue.


Thats a really good idea
1
Season Ticket Update on 15:44 - Sep 25 with 2209 viewsNorthernr

Season Ticket Update on 15:28 - Sep 25 by BklynRanger

Another option would be a 'stream season ticket' where the cost drops down to an amount that covers the stream for all home games that can be streamed. £10 x what is it 21 or so? = £220 for the stream ST.

So you'd be committing to paying for the stream either up front or monthly - club gets more stable revenue than adhoc payments every week and its an easier gesture for us to make than wave the whole £66 a month (in my case anyway).

Plus (and sorry to be negative but it's hardly impossible) if the season starts going down the toilet people will be more likely to just leave that lesser direct debit alone whereas logging on and paying a tener to watch a losing run may not exactly bring in a lot of revenue.


Email them that mate, it's a good idea. They've asked people to mail them suggestions for how to proceed.
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Season Ticket Update on 15:49 - Sep 25 with 2194 viewsstevec

Season Ticket Update on 15:28 - Sep 25 by BklynRanger

Another option would be a 'stream season ticket' where the cost drops down to an amount that covers the stream for all home games that can be streamed. £10 x what is it 21 or so? = £220 for the stream ST.

So you'd be committing to paying for the stream either up front or monthly - club gets more stable revenue than adhoc payments every week and its an easier gesture for us to make than wave the whole £66 a month (in my case anyway).

Plus (and sorry to be negative but it's hardly impossible) if the season starts going down the toilet people will be more likely to just leave that lesser direct debit alone whereas logging on and paying a tener to watch a losing run may not exactly bring in a lot of revenue.


That’s a sensible option. Think they should then throw in away games for free or say half price as an incentive otherwise we may as well pay game by game.

Anyone know how many viewers they get on the streams?
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Season Ticket Update on 15:50 - Sep 25 with 2191 viewsBklynRanger

Season Ticket Update on 15:44 - Sep 25 by Northernr

Email them that mate, it's a good idea. They've asked people to mail them suggestions for how to proceed.


Just did in fact. This gingko biloba - amazing stuff. :)

Might double the dose, see where that takes me. Like a dull version of Limitless...
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Season Ticket Update on 16:48 - Sep 25 with 2088 viewsrobith

Season Ticket Update on 15:28 - Sep 25 by BklynRanger

Another option would be a 'stream season ticket' where the cost drops down to an amount that covers the stream for all home games that can be streamed. £10 x what is it 21 or so? = £220 for the stream ST.

So you'd be committing to paying for the stream either up front or monthly - club gets more stable revenue than adhoc payments every week and its an easier gesture for us to make than wave the whole £66 a month (in my case anyway).

Plus (and sorry to be negative but it's hardly impossible) if the season starts going down the toilet people will be more likely to just leave that lesser direct debit alone whereas logging on and paying a tener to watch a losing run may not exactly bring in a lot of revenue.


Probably the best solution I've seen so far
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Season Ticket Update on 16:48 - Sep 25 with 2087 viewsrobith

Woohoo an extra £70 this month (I pay for my dad's)!

....if only I had someplace to be
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Season Ticket Update on 18:00 - Sep 25 with 2006 viewsPinnerPaul

All seems a bit irrelevant if we're not going to get to the end of the season.

Happy to watch the games for free, but not going to pay for them.

Not too fussed about getting my ST money back now and happy to use it for 21/22 ST - fingers crossed.

That's just one view amongst many of course, so whatever the club/EFL/Sky decide isn't going to please everyone - not easy.
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Season Ticket Update on 20:24 - Sep 25 with 1902 viewsNorthantsHoop

Season Ticket Update on 15:28 - Sep 25 by BklynRanger

Another option would be a 'stream season ticket' where the cost drops down to an amount that covers the stream for all home games that can be streamed. £10 x what is it 21 or so? = £220 for the stream ST.

So you'd be committing to paying for the stream either up front or monthly - club gets more stable revenue than adhoc payments every week and its an easier gesture for us to make than wave the whole £66 a month (in my case anyway).

Plus (and sorry to be negative but it's hardly impossible) if the season starts going down the toilet people will be more likely to just leave that lesser direct debit alone whereas logging on and paying a tener to watch a losing run may not exactly bring in a lot of revenue.


Sensible option, before saw your post emailed the club to suggest similar option.
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Season Ticket Update on 22:24 - Sep 25 with 1827 viewssaxbend

Absolutely. It's not enjoyable at all even when we play well and win. No atmosphere, no-one to enjoy it with and really the only difference between watching a live stream and watching the highlights an hour (or sometimes less) after full time on YouTube is the time delay.

The clubs should not be charging for these streams to season ticket holders, or really to anyone with a client reference number. These games should not be going ahead when it's too soon for fans to attend. They are purely for TV money because the FA/league/clubs didn't have the backbone to tell them they keep paying no matter what or lose their rights and let broadcasting rights revert back to the clubs who can put on a proper package worth paying for later once games resume properly with normal attendances at an appropriate time.

Therefore the clubs have their TV income which massively dwarfs gate receipts, and definitely dwarfs stream income. It's pure greed for clubs to charge season ticket holders, who let's not forget will not receive any refund until almost a year from now, for an inferior product definitely not worth half the cost per game of a season ticket.

Having made a promise of a reasonable compromise (reasonable only when one doesn't ask why the club did nothing to resist rushing into the season, that is), to season ticket holders who having already paid for the season received no information until a week before the league season kicked off, the club absolutely must not u-turn on it.

This season is a write off for football. It always was going to be, which is why rushing to finish last season was pointless. Fans should not be paying for this joke of a product at all. Those who had paid in advance should be credited towards next season instead, and this season's games that cannot be attended should either be streamed for nothing or not streamed at all.
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Season Ticket Update on 22:52 - Sep 25 with 1803 viewsdaveB

TV money for Championship clubs is not that great and doesn't make a huge difference. I don't think we should be getting these streams for free at all.
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Season Ticket Update on 23:40 - Sep 25 with 1777 viewssaxbend

Season Ticket Update on 22:52 - Sep 25 by daveB

TV money for Championship clubs is not that great and doesn't make a huge difference. I don't think we should be getting these streams for free at all.


If that's the case then all the more reason for the league not to go ahead until it's safe. If TV money matters that little then it would have been more economically sensible to suspend football altogether and avoid the massive costs of running the club for a whole empty season, and certainly no big deal for the broadcasters to keep paying.

Look at what the rest of hospitality and entertainment have had to go through, and theatres in particular are still going through.

If season ticket holders suddenly have to pay for streams during this uncertainty, many will choose not to, and even those who do choose to pay a tenner a game will still need their refunds issued immediately, and then the club will lose out even more. Fans will watch highlights for free instead shortly after the game.

If nothing else altering the terms of a season ticket once the season is already underway probably breaks a few trading laws. Also revoking an online voucher code once it has been issued and redeemed.

I know fans can have unreasonable expectations when it comes to on the pitch matters, as well as appointments of managers and signings of players, but one expectation that can never be called unreasonable is that if you buy a ticket for a game, and comply with the terms and regulations, then you are entitled to attend the game, and if you are not allowed to attend the game then that is a breach of contract by the ticket seller. A delay of more than 90 days for a refund in such a case is also unacceptable. The offer of a complementary, but inferior product as compensation for the extended delay of the refund can be acceptable, but subsequent withdrawal thereof definitely is not.

The league made a mistake rushing back into games. The clubs made a mistake not pointing it out. And a further mistake was made by both parties in announcing naively (or misleadingly) that fans would be back in October. No-one should be surprised if it's not appropriate for fans to attend games long after October and fans are definitely not to blame for this. Least of all the fans who've been pointing out from the beginning that the sole purpose of professional sport is to entertain spectators.

Playing for streams over nine games during months of severely reduced income while waiting indefinitely for the promised refund of last season was bad enough. To do the same across a whole nine-month season is on another level of unacceptability altogether.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2020 23:41]
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Season Ticket Update on 09:26 - Sep 26 with 1686 viewsPinnerPaul

Season Ticket Update on 22:24 - Sep 25 by saxbend

Absolutely. It's not enjoyable at all even when we play well and win. No atmosphere, no-one to enjoy it with and really the only difference between watching a live stream and watching the highlights an hour (or sometimes less) after full time on YouTube is the time delay.

The clubs should not be charging for these streams to season ticket holders, or really to anyone with a client reference number. These games should not be going ahead when it's too soon for fans to attend. They are purely for TV money because the FA/league/clubs didn't have the backbone to tell them they keep paying no matter what or lose their rights and let broadcasting rights revert back to the clubs who can put on a proper package worth paying for later once games resume properly with normal attendances at an appropriate time.

Therefore the clubs have their TV income which massively dwarfs gate receipts, and definitely dwarfs stream income. It's pure greed for clubs to charge season ticket holders, who let's not forget will not receive any refund until almost a year from now, for an inferior product definitely not worth half the cost per game of a season ticket.

Having made a promise of a reasonable compromise (reasonable only when one doesn't ask why the club did nothing to resist rushing into the season, that is), to season ticket holders who having already paid for the season received no information until a week before the league season kicked off, the club absolutely must not u-turn on it.

This season is a write off for football. It always was going to be, which is why rushing to finish last season was pointless. Fans should not be paying for this joke of a product at all. Those who had paid in advance should be credited towards next season instead, and this season's games that cannot be attended should either be streamed for nothing or not streamed at all.


'Tell them to keep paying' and then take the product away!

Sky wouldn't need a top drawer lawyer on that case would they?
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Season Ticket Update on 09:29 - Sep 26 with 1679 viewsPinnerPaul

Season Ticket Update on 23:40 - Sep 25 by saxbend

If that's the case then all the more reason for the league not to go ahead until it's safe. If TV money matters that little then it would have been more economically sensible to suspend football altogether and avoid the massive costs of running the club for a whole empty season, and certainly no big deal for the broadcasters to keep paying.

Look at what the rest of hospitality and entertainment have had to go through, and theatres in particular are still going through.

If season ticket holders suddenly have to pay for streams during this uncertainty, many will choose not to, and even those who do choose to pay a tenner a game will still need their refunds issued immediately, and then the club will lose out even more. Fans will watch highlights for free instead shortly after the game.

If nothing else altering the terms of a season ticket once the season is already underway probably breaks a few trading laws. Also revoking an online voucher code once it has been issued and redeemed.

I know fans can have unreasonable expectations when it comes to on the pitch matters, as well as appointments of managers and signings of players, but one expectation that can never be called unreasonable is that if you buy a ticket for a game, and comply with the terms and regulations, then you are entitled to attend the game, and if you are not allowed to attend the game then that is a breach of contract by the ticket seller. A delay of more than 90 days for a refund in such a case is also unacceptable. The offer of a complementary, but inferior product as compensation for the extended delay of the refund can be acceptable, but subsequent withdrawal thereof definitely is not.

The league made a mistake rushing back into games. The clubs made a mistake not pointing it out. And a further mistake was made by both parties in announcing naively (or misleadingly) that fans would be back in October. No-one should be surprised if it's not appropriate for fans to attend games long after October and fans are definitely not to blame for this. Least of all the fans who've been pointing out from the beginning that the sole purpose of professional sport is to entertain spectators.

Playing for streams over nine games during months of severely reduced income while waiting indefinitely for the promised refund of last season was bad enough. To do the same across a whole nine-month season is on another level of unacceptability altogether.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2020 23:41]


Sorry saxbend - but your whole point of 'professional sport is purely to entertain spectators' is simply wrong and about 100 years out of date.

Forget the millionaire footballers for a minute, what about all those ordinary soles and ordinary businesses that rely on football for their wage/income/living?
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Season Ticket Update on 09:48 - Sep 26 with 1647 viewssaxbend

Season Ticket Update on 09:29 - Sep 26 by PinnerPaul

Sorry saxbend - but your whole point of 'professional sport is purely to entertain spectators' is simply wrong and about 100 years out of date.

Forget the millionaire footballers for a minute, what about all those ordinary soles and ordinary businesses that rely on football for their wage/income/living?


I actually can't think of any businesses dependent on football, except for merchandise sellers, and there's no need for them to stop just because games aren't being played. If anything people will be more likely to buy merch if they're missing the games.

Ok there are sellers who have food vans instead of merch, but they're not going to be able to do anything if crowds aren't there anyway.

Who else often operates at football matches? Police? Ambulance? They still have plenty of work. Bookies? They also can offer betting on all sorts of continuing events. Ticket touts? They're just as stuck as the food vendors. Coach drivers? Only the team bus. It's hardly enough to sustain a coach business.

As for individuals who work for football clubs, they come under the same category as people who work in theatre, and most of the lower paid staff will be superfluous without crowds. I might be wrong but I bet none of the kiosk staff or cleaners, or car park attendants, or stadium tour guides, are being asked to turn up at the moment.

As for your point about lawyers, the broadcasters wouldn't need lawyers to be able to walk away from the contract if they choose not to keep paying while games aren't taking place. That is their right and good luck to them. Let the clubs have the rights back.
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Season Ticket Update on 09:52 - Sep 26 with 1636 viewsfrogw12

Season Ticket Update on 09:29 - Sep 26 by PinnerPaul

Sorry saxbend - but your whole point of 'professional sport is purely to entertain spectators' is simply wrong and about 100 years out of date.

Forget the millionaire footballers for a minute, what about all those ordinary soles and ordinary businesses that rely on football for their wage/income/living?


Saxbend is basically asking the likes of SKY to subsidise Football for a year and receive no product as you've said. Without the product SKY customers would cancel and reduce SKYs income and they are not in it because they love football! And the Premier League are the ones that they are really interested in and they would never agree to postpone a whole season. Therefore, if you look at it from the EFL's point of view it would be committing suicide. You also come to a conclusion without any facts. The club (pre-covid) was losing around £7m a season, broadcasting rights are also about £7m a season and match day receipts are (you guessed it) £7m. Therefore as a business we are around £14m short this year and you can only reduce your costs by so much by not playing, you can't reduce them to zero. And for a small club like QPR we would not cover the £7m by having our own stream. Do the maths on that one. I personally don't think QPR or the EFL have as much power as you seem to think they have.
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Season Ticket Update on 10:29 - Sep 26 with 1603 viewsCliff

I also agree with Saxbend here, football is an entertainment industry. Listing people and businesses who make their money off of the back it doesn't alter that fact any more than cinemas making money of the film industry stops film making being an entertainment industry.

I also agree that the level of entertainment I expect to receive this season is way down on my normal expectations (which with QPR haven't always been that high to start with!). Regardless of what the club do with my ST I'm not sure I could stand a whole season of streams.
[Post edited 26 Sep 2020 11:08]
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Season Ticket Update on 11:08 - Sep 26 with 1562 viewsfrancisbowles

After today there are 43 league and one cup match left. How about a £199 pound season streaming ticket to cover all of those minus any Sky select. Much cheaper than £10 a game (just over £4.50) but gets more people to commit. I believe that's similar to what overseas R's are charged.

Club needs some revenue guys and I need my Rangers, even if on a stream.

I'm emailing this in.
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Season Ticket Update on 11:11 - Sep 26 with 1560 viewssaxbend

Where do you think most of Sky Sports's revenue comes from.

It's not their customers, at least not directly. It comes from all the adverts, both those displayed during games on broadcasts and those included in all the programme ad breaks. Sure, QPR fans paying a monthly subscription wouldn't generate £7m for the club, but McDonalds or CocaCola or betting companies or what you will paying to be featured on the programme absolutely would.

The maths is simple. Sky's profit comes from the total they make minus what they have to pay out to each club. Therefore there has to be more money to be made than what they pay out to each club. Otherwise Sky wouldn't bother to cover the Football League at all.

As for other costs again I refer you to almost every other business and what they have done and/or not been able to do. If the clubs don't take this opportunity to stand up for themselves against TV's throttling of football then they never will, and TV will kill 80% of football clubs eventually, including many who are currently longterm premier league regulars.

We're already in a situation in most countries where people who live there are more interested in the televised games of countries they may never visit than they are in even the biggest clubs in their own country. Scotland is going that way, and England won't be that far behind, now that we've allowed Sky to establish that TV is literally the purpose of professional football.
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Season Ticket Update on 13:36 - Sep 26 with 1475 viewsdaveB

Season Ticket Update on 23:40 - Sep 25 by saxbend

If that's the case then all the more reason for the league not to go ahead until it's safe. If TV money matters that little then it would have been more economically sensible to suspend football altogether and avoid the massive costs of running the club for a whole empty season, and certainly no big deal for the broadcasters to keep paying.

Look at what the rest of hospitality and entertainment have had to go through, and theatres in particular are still going through.

If season ticket holders suddenly have to pay for streams during this uncertainty, many will choose not to, and even those who do choose to pay a tenner a game will still need their refunds issued immediately, and then the club will lose out even more. Fans will watch highlights for free instead shortly after the game.

If nothing else altering the terms of a season ticket once the season is already underway probably breaks a few trading laws. Also revoking an online voucher code once it has been issued and redeemed.

I know fans can have unreasonable expectations when it comes to on the pitch matters, as well as appointments of managers and signings of players, but one expectation that can never be called unreasonable is that if you buy a ticket for a game, and comply with the terms and regulations, then you are entitled to attend the game, and if you are not allowed to attend the game then that is a breach of contract by the ticket seller. A delay of more than 90 days for a refund in such a case is also unacceptable. The offer of a complementary, but inferior product as compensation for the extended delay of the refund can be acceptable, but subsequent withdrawal thereof definitely is not.

The league made a mistake rushing back into games. The clubs made a mistake not pointing it out. And a further mistake was made by both parties in announcing naively (or misleadingly) that fans would be back in October. No-one should be surprised if it's not appropriate for fans to attend games long after October and fans are definitely not to blame for this. Least of all the fans who've been pointing out from the beginning that the sole purpose of professional sport is to entertain spectators.

Playing for streams over nine games during months of severely reduced income while waiting indefinitely for the promised refund of last season was bad enough. To do the same across a whole nine-month season is on another level of unacceptability altogether.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2020 23:41]


I'm a bit confused by all this, I don't think anyone is saying you have to pay for the streams and wait till next summer for the refund.

I think as we won't be able to attend games the easiest and fairest thing to do it refund all season ticket holders now and allow them to renew their seat next season when fans will be able to go back.

Then everyone is in the same boat so we either pay for the streams and watch the games or don't. That way the club get a regular income this season which is less than people attending matches but better than nothing as fans get their money back for the season tickets now and can then choose if they want to watch or not
1
Season Ticket Update on 14:13 - Sep 26 with 1426 viewsPinnerPaul

Season Ticket Update on 09:48 - Sep 26 by saxbend

I actually can't think of any businesses dependent on football, except for merchandise sellers, and there's no need for them to stop just because games aren't being played. If anything people will be more likely to buy merch if they're missing the games.

Ok there are sellers who have food vans instead of merch, but they're not going to be able to do anything if crowds aren't there anyway.

Who else often operates at football matches? Police? Ambulance? They still have plenty of work. Bookies? They also can offer betting on all sorts of continuing events. Ticket touts? They're just as stuck as the food vendors. Coach drivers? Only the team bus. It's hardly enough to sustain a coach business.

As for individuals who work for football clubs, they come under the same category as people who work in theatre, and most of the lower paid staff will be superfluous without crowds. I might be wrong but I bet none of the kiosk staff or cleaners, or car park attendants, or stadium tour guides, are being asked to turn up at the moment.

As for your point about lawyers, the broadcasters wouldn't need lawyers to be able to walk away from the contract if they choose not to keep paying while games aren't taking place. That is their right and good luck to them. Let the clubs have the rights back.


If they 'chose' not to keep paying while the games are not taking place????? Why on earth would they?

As for businesses, did you not read the Colchester chairman's piece about having to lay off people?

Clive has written about businesses in Shepherd's Bush under serious threat because there is no footfall. To deny that football generates millions in revenue for people, businesses and HMRC is just simply wrong.

See how many jobs were to go at Sky if they lost football rights and consequently a big chunk of their customers and we're not just talking Jeff Stelling here, but 100s of ordinary people.
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Season Ticket Update on 12:29 - Sep 27 with 1289 viewsNW5Hoop

Season Ticket Update on 22:52 - Sep 25 by daveB

TV money for Championship clubs is not that great and doesn't make a huge difference. I don't think we should be getting these streams for free at all.


I quite agree, as someone who works in an industry that has been devastated by peope expecting everything for free. I accept I am fortunate that at the moment the cost of a season ticket doesn't bother me too much, but I would be OK to let the club keep my season ticket money in return for a full set of streams. That wouldn't have been the case in the days of buying old players for huge salaries in the Premier League, mind you.

Did you see the stat the other day that Gareth Bale's wage would cover the entire wage bill of League Two? There's what's wrong with football …
3
Season Ticket Update on 14:39 - Sep 27 with 1215 viewsPinnerPaul

Season Ticket Update on 11:11 - Sep 26 by saxbend

Where do you think most of Sky Sports's revenue comes from.

It's not their customers, at least not directly. It comes from all the adverts, both those displayed during games on broadcasts and those included in all the programme ad breaks. Sure, QPR fans paying a monthly subscription wouldn't generate £7m for the club, but McDonalds or CocaCola or betting companies or what you will paying to be featured on the programme absolutely would.

The maths is simple. Sky's profit comes from the total they make minus what they have to pay out to each club. Therefore there has to be more money to be made than what they pay out to each club. Otherwise Sky wouldn't bother to cover the Football League at all.

As for other costs again I refer you to almost every other business and what they have done and/or not been able to do. If the clubs don't take this opportunity to stand up for themselves against TV's throttling of football then they never will, and TV will kill 80% of football clubs eventually, including many who are currently longterm premier league regulars.

We're already in a situation in most countries where people who live there are more interested in the televised games of countries they may never visit than they are in even the biggest clubs in their own country. Scotland is going that way, and England won't be that far behind, now that we've allowed Sky to establish that TV is literally the purpose of professional football.


Sorry the Sky analysis is wrong. Their audiences, compared to ITV, are tiny, therefore they can not charge anything like what ITV get from advertisers.

They also have the linked packages - ie people get their TV and Broadband from them. Its the same reason BT invested in PayTV sport - its NOT for the advertising revenue.
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Season Ticket Update on 22:45 - Sep 27 with 1102 viewsdaveB

Season Ticket Update on 14:39 - Sep 27 by PinnerPaul

Sorry the Sky analysis is wrong. Their audiences, compared to ITV, are tiny, therefore they can not charge anything like what ITV get from advertisers.

They also have the linked packages - ie people get their TV and Broadband from them. Its the same reason BT invested in PayTV sport - its NOT for the advertising revenue.


The ad market has gone in the last few months, no a chance any companies advertising budget is going to be spent on streams for QPR
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Season Ticket Update on 22:49 - Sep 27 with 1096 viewsNorthernr

Season Ticket Update on 22:45 - Sep 27 by daveB

The ad market has gone in the last few months, no a chance any companies advertising budget is going to be spent on streams for QPR


This.
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Season Ticket Update on 23:05 - Sep 27 with 1072 viewsdaveB

Season Ticket Update on 22:49 - Sep 27 by Northernr

This.


you should see the trouble we are having trying to sell ads in shows attracting millions of viewers, is a nightmare at the moment. Add in that you have no movies being released in cinemas so they've all gone, no new cars being made and sold, the theatres all shut and holidays down the toilet, it's not a great market at the moment
[Post edited 27 Sep 2020 23:07]
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