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Ah thanks for the heads up! I was planning to watch that but I see it's already at episode 7, don't know if there's a way of catching up from the beginning?
I think Lincoln was the first Republican president, at least according to this?
Democratic Party v Republican history on 15:45 - Nov 11 by TheChef
Ah thanks for the heads up! I was planning to watch that but I see it's already at episode 7, don't know if there's a way of catching up from the beginning?
I think Lincoln was the first Republican president, at least according to this?
But yes curious to know how the Dem/Rep rivalry came about (and why no other party has been able to elbow its way in).
So there have been other candidates - in 1912 the Republicans split and Teddy Roosevelt stood as a Progressive candidate, splitting their vote and giving Wilson a landslide. Likewise Ross Perot got 20% of the vote in 1992.
But the main reason no one challenges is Duverger's Law - that is elections that are decided by Winner Takes All in single result districts (such as the electoral college system or our own constituency system) will naturally gravitate towards two party dominance
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 16:01 - Nov 11 with 1135 views
In terms of when they switched - it was basically FDR. New deal and international intervention intent created a new dichotomy
EDIT: was also an economic development thing. In the earlier days of the state, large scale government projects like railways etc are very beneficial to businesses. Once the state becomes more established those businesses then resent taxation.
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 16:03]
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 16:23 - Nov 11 with 1099 views
It's complicated!! The Republicans were only established in the decade before the Civil War to fight against the extension of slavery into the new states of the West, as a party of "free labour". Abolition only became the policy once the South went to war in protest at the election of Lincoln, and even then as a way of weakening the South's war effort. Southern states were only readmitted into the Union if they allowed black male voting; in addition, high-ranking Confederate officers - essentially the pre-war political elite were barred as were those who wouldn't swear an oath to uphold the new order. Early southern elections were dominated by the Republicans, with black congressmen in states and in Washington. And then...
In the 19th century US, government was something the States did, the Federal government was tiny by modern standards. The Civil War Federal army and government was seen as a necessary evil to be dismantled as soon as possible. So basically, central government withdrew from the South, the Army largely disbanded. As Southern whites had economic power, weapons and military organisation from the Confederacy, they very quickly imposed terror to force blacks down to a state where they slaves in all but name. The Republican Party was also crushed and vanished from view in the New Order.
Just as the Republicans were discredited in the South by their wartime connections, something similar was the case for the Democrats in the North. There were only two Democrat Presidents between the Civil War and FDR in 1933, Grover Cleveland (twice) and Woodrow Wilson. Wilson was the only Southerner elected president in that period (Lincoln's VP Andrew Johnson of Tennessee lost his election). Wilson is famous in Europe for championing the rights of small nations at Versailles - as President, his first action was to segregate washrooms in Federal facilities.
As the party that dominated the North and kept winning elections, the Republicans came to be controlled by business interests willing and able to buy control of government. The Democrats, desperate for a foothold in Northern politics, latched on to recent immigrants and helped build powerful political machines in the the cities - eg New York ("Tammany Hall", where immigrants were given city jobs in return for votes) and Chicago.
Thus the Democrats established themselves as the party of working-class industrial workers in the big cities of the North, while their employers were dominating the Republican Party - "country-club" Republicans. Which isn't to say that there wasn't big money at the top of the Democrats. The newspaper mogul Randolph Hearst stood for the Presidency as a Democrat, tapping into the millions of readers of his papers in the big cities. Ironically, the Democrats were the party supported by Catholics in the North and KKK supporters in the South.
So how did black voters come to support the Democrats? Two people contributed greatly: 1) FDR, who was put in office and kept there by white Southern voters, but who undoubtedly raised the living standards of the white and black poor in the depression. Ironically, despite his popularity with Black Americans, few could vote for him. 2) LBJ, for forcing through civil rights and the Great Society in the 60s, against the objections of his fellow Southern Democrats. As well as voting rights, this gave blacks unprecedented access to government employment and education everywhere, as well as increasing the welfare state.
Other things to bear in mind - the great migration of blacks from the rural south to the industrial north from the depression onwards. Not only would they have a vote in the North, but their status as industrial or city workers would make them natural Democrats. But bear in mind that Eisenhower, a Republican, sent the troops into Little Rock to desegregate schools in the 50s and George Wallace, the Alabama Governor who stood for Segregation Now and Forever, was a Democrat well into the 80s, even if he changed many of his tunes and that a lot of his white voters went over to the Republicans
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 16:28]
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 16:52 - Nov 11 with 1034 views
The story of the post-Civil War South is atrocious. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Slavery-Another-Name-Re-Enslavement-Americans/dp/038572 Basically, bounty-hunters could arrest blacks for "vagrancy", and their "fines" would be paid by employers in return for compulsory labour service of up to five years, which could be renewed for offences such as tearing clothes. Slaves were at least valuable property it was in the owner's interest to look after, forced labour could be worked to death and replaced for next to nothing.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 17:53 - Nov 11 with 991 views
Thank you for your very detailed answer. It's beginning to make sense. I will have to use it as a reference and check back to increase my understanding.
It's a fascinating subject. I am finding the civil war really interesting and I have a couple of PBS programmes on reconstruction recorded to watch next.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 18:05 - Nov 11 with 970 views
Democratic Party v Republican history on 15:45 - Nov 11 by TheChef
Ah thanks for the heads up! I was planning to watch that but I see it's already at episode 7, don't know if there's a way of catching up from the beginning?
I think Lincoln was the first Republican president, at least according to this?
But yes curious to know how the Dem/Rep rivalry came about (and why no other party has been able to elbow its way in).
Thanks for that, I didn't know Lincoln was the first republican.
Unfortunately, PBS America doesn't have a catch up. Some of it's programmes are available on MY5 but not the Ken Burns documentaries.
However, I found this but haven't tested it:
PBS America has a website where you can sign up for an email and get the schedule for the next week. They do repeat shows fairly regularly. Ken Burns documentaries are always very long and detailed. They are showing the Country music one next week, which I watched last time. Another historical one to watch out for is The Roosevelts, which I watched recently.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 18:47 - Nov 11 with 926 views
The Republicans, especially since the advent of the Tea Party movement have definitely got more right wing and libertarian/populist and less socially liberal. This wasn't always the case.
The Republican Party did have a moderate 'progressive' wing once who had liberal views on social issues and were typified by Nelson Rockefeller the governor of New York from 1959-73 (and Gerald Ford's VP) and were known as 'Rockefeller Republicans'. They were probably the US equivalent of one nation Tories and generally were found in the North East and West coast.
The drift to the right in the Republican Party started with Barry Goldwater (1964 presidential candidate) in the 60s and the baton was picked up again with Reagan in the late 70s/80s. Since Reagan I'd say they've gone further rightwards.
This mirrors what has happened over here with the Tories who have also become more right wing/eurosceptic in the last 15-20 years, especially in Parliament. Very few socially liberal, one nation Tories like Michael Heseltine and Ken Clarke amongst current Tory MPs.
BTW, the Ken Burns civil war documentary series is a great watch. I got it on DVD a few years ago and binge watched it back then before binge watching became a thing.
LBJ spent huge political capitol for democrats in the south not only getting the civil rights bill passed but actually forcing de segregation after its passage. Fascinating bloke LBJ
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 19:10 - Nov 11 with 891 views
Democratic Party v Republican history on 18:52 - Nov 11 by Phildo
LBJ spent huge political capitol for democrats in the south not only getting the civil rights bill passed but actually forcing de segregation after its passage. Fascinating bloke LBJ
And a Texan of course, would have come through the Dixiecrat machine.
Another fascinating character was Robert Byrd, a Democrat senator from West Virginia forever. Very much a promoter of high public spending (particularly on buildings with his name on) and welfare benefits as the representative of a dirt-poor state, he started as a KKK organiser in the 1940s and ended as a “beloved elder statesman”.
Some weird and wonderful stuff in there, including him being given a completely new name when he was adopted by a woman called Vlurma. Normal for West Virginia, possibly.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 11:52 - Nov 12 with 716 views
Democratic Party v Republican history on 17:53 - Nov 11 by francisbowles
Thank you for your very detailed answer. It's beginning to make sense. I will have to use it as a reference and check back to increase my understanding.
It's a fascinating subject. I am finding the civil war really interesting and I have a couple of PBS programmes on reconstruction recorded to watch next.
If you want a deep dive on the Civil War, i can't recommend this highly enough, it's perhaps the best book I have ever read on anything. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Penguin-history/dp/0140125183/ref=tm Political, military, economic and social history, cause and effect, it's all there, and so lightly and skilfully done you'll fly through it.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 11:59 - Nov 12 with 703 views
Democratic Party v Republican history on 11:52 - Nov 12 by MrSheen
If you want a deep dive on the Civil War, i can't recommend this highly enough, it's perhaps the best book I have ever read on anything. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Penguin-history/dp/0140125183/ref=tm Political, military, economic and social history, cause and effect, it's all there, and so lightly and skilfully done you'll fly through it.
Thanks for the tip Mr Sheen.
On the subject of LBJ, I recently watched a film on Now TV (Sky Atlantic), 'All the way', it features Brian Cranston as LBJ and is a light and entertaining but interesting introduction to the times.
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Democratic Party v Republican history on 12:38 - Nov 12 with 677 views
Democratic Party v Republican history on 11:52 - Nov 12 by MrSheen
If you want a deep dive on the Civil War, i can't recommend this highly enough, it's perhaps the best book I have ever read on anything. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Penguin-history/dp/0140125183/ref=tm Political, military, economic and social history, cause and effect, it's all there, and so lightly and skilfully done you'll fly through it.
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