| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge 08:01 - Mar 20 with 3354 views | Gloucs_R |
What does everyone think of this? I personally think it's a good idea and maybe should have happened a long time ago go with English and Scottish leagues. I believe it's almost inevitable that the big clubs will break away and create a Euro super League at some stage over the next few years.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/bene-league-belgium-dutch-football-clu |  |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 08:55 - Mar 20 with 3282 views | E15Hoop |
Obviously makes sense for these two countries given how the geography works. Not sure I'd be happy to have the same system over here if I was a Plymouth fan and the club was in the same division as Inverness Caledonian Thistle.. |  | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:19 - Mar 20 with 3249 views | davman |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 08:55 - Mar 20 by E15Hoop |
Obviously makes sense for these two countries given how the geography works. Not sure I'd be happy to have the same system over here if I was a Plymouth fan and the club was in the same division as Inverness Caledonian Thistle.. |
But who does it benefit to combine the English and Scottish leagues? Just two clubs as far as I can see; no-one else. |  |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:31 - Mar 20 with 3226 views | distortR |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:19 - Mar 20 by davman |
But who does it benefit to combine the English and Scottish leagues? Just two clubs as far as I can see; no-one else. |
I think Scottish clubs should enter the English league NOW, purely to add another layer of complexity in the event of Scotland leaving the holy matrimony.
We can then kick them out and watch them go from league to league begging for admittance, ending up with Ballacloan stadium packed to the rafters for Ramsey v Celtic. Come on you Blues! Away day for Karl, Foxdale v Hibs, pre-match pint in the Baltic then an edgy walk past grinning mono-browed types. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:52 - Mar 20 with 3183 views | BrianMcCarthy |
There's no acceptable reason for it all.
All the reasons are purely driven by greed, same as those spun by Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic when they discuss merging or joining with England. |  |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:53 - Mar 20 with 3176 views | Boston |
The slow but steady reconquest of Belgium continues. | |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 10:00 - Mar 20 with 3159 views | E15Hoop |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:52 - Mar 20 by BrianMcCarthy |
There's no acceptable reason for it all.
All the reasons are purely driven by greed, same as those spun by Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic when they discuss merging or joining with England. |
I wonder if we'll reach a point where even the Championship becomes a regionally split league in order to help clubs keep travelling costs down? | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 11:41 - Mar 20 with 3034 views | MrSheen |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:53 - Mar 20 by Boston |
The slow but steady reconquest of Belgium continues. |
Standard Liege and Charleroi to join the French league? |  | | |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 12:20 - Mar 20 with 2970 views | TomS |
Do UEFA have to approve it? Would they see it as a stepping stone towards some of their committee members dreams of a breakaway UEFA Super League?
What other countries might start thinking about a similar restructure?
In Ireland, I think, I stand to be corrected, that soccer is the only sport on the island which doesn't have an all-Ireland structure. |  | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 12:44 - Mar 20 with 2919 views | SonofNorfolt |
For the first few seasons the police forces would be at full stretch as teams from Antwerp, Brugge and Brussels got to grips with Amsterdam, Den Haag and Rotterdam. There's no love lost there.
Football wise, only Club Brugge maybe on a par with Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV.
You may as well add Metz and Strasbourg for all the difference the Luxembourg teams will make. |  | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 13:32 - Mar 20 with 2847 views | Gloucs_R |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:19 - Mar 20 by davman |
But who does it benefit to combine the English and Scottish leagues? Just two clubs as far as I can see; no-one else. |
Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen could be championship standard with more TV funds.
Well, Dundee and maybe a couple of others could be League 1.
I think the English League needs a massive shake up. Back to the north and south for L1 and L2 imo.
As mentioned, I don't think the top 5 will be playing in the EFL in a decade. | |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 14:41 - Mar 20 with 2765 views | stowmarketrange |
I wondered what language the Belgian national anthem was sung in so I googled it.Apparently there is a lot of conflict between the regions of Belgium.French,Dutch and German are all official languages in different regions of the country.
The national football team only speak english in the dressing room to avoid upsetting the other ones who use a different language.
The whole country might end up splitting up over the disputes. |  | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 19:55 - Mar 20 with 2653 views | CiderwithRsie |
I don't have a dog in this fight at all, but just for interest I googled the distance between Groeningen and Charleroi, which as far as I can see are the two clubs furthest apart in the Dutch Eredivisie and the Belgian1st Division A - it comes out as a 4-hour trip 419 km.
By comparison Plymouth to Inverness (cited upthread) comes out as 11 hours (641 miles/1032 km). London to Glasgow (which'd be a fairly regular trip in a combined UK Premiership) is 7 hours.
Put another way, Belgium and the Netherlands put together are about 28k square miles and England is over 50k. Add in 8k for Wales (which for football we should because of Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham etc) and our league already covers more than twice the area of Belgium + Netherlands | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 20:04 - Mar 20 with 2615 views | Boston |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 14:41 - Mar 20 by stowmarketrange |
I wondered what language the Belgian national anthem was sung in so I googled it.Apparently there is a lot of conflict between the regions of Belgium.French,Dutch and German are all official languages in different regions of the country.
The national football team only speak english in the dressing room to avoid upsetting the other ones who use a different language.
The whole country might end up splitting up over the disputes. |
I did not know that English language thing but, slowly though surely, the Flemish speakers are growing ever more dominant in population numbers. They've gone from a minority to a 60 / 65% majority since the war and really, if it wasn't for Brussels, would be 75%.. How long until they vote to rejoin the Netherlands, god only knows but becoming the dominant part of a national structure will certainly be part of the process. | |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 20:56 - Mar 20 with 2510 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 20:04 - Mar 20 by Boston |
I did not know that English language thing but, slowly though surely, the Flemish speakers are growing ever more dominant in population numbers. They've gone from a minority to a 60 / 65% majority since the war and really, if it wasn't for Brussels, would be 75%.. How long until they vote to rejoin the Netherlands, god only knows but becoming the dominant part of a national structure will certainly be part of the process. |
I don't think it's likely that the Flemish would join the Netherlands any more than the Walloons want to be part of France.
Historically the Flemish are Catholic and the Dutch largely Calvinist (with a significant Catholic minority). That goes back to the whole Dutch War of independence against Spain (Catholic obvs) and its actually why the Belgians fought a war of independence against the Dutch in 1830.
I don't think the religious thing is so big now but it's still an issue as in Europe Catholic tends to be right-of-centre (Christian Democrats etc) and the main Flemish political parties are conservative/right wing. The Netherlands tends to (in UK terms) Liberal governments with a right-wing (anti-Islamic) opposition. Throwing a lot of conservative, mildly traditionalist Catholics into that mix is going to be unhappy for probably both sides.
And why would they want to? As Brexit has shown in NI, being in the EU takes away the border, a Fleming can go from Brugge to Amsterdam without showing a passport or changing money. They also have their own regional government which they lose if they become part of the Netherlands. What do they get in return for being ruled from The Hague? Offloading the Walloons is the only plus I can see.
Wallonia is an ex-mining area so no surprises it traditionally votes Socialist. The French won't want another ex-industrial wasteland, their own worst one is the same coalfield the other side of the border. For the Walloons the same deal as Flanders applies, they already can come and go to France seamlessly if they want to, they have their very own pork-barrel regional government, they get nothing from being a poor province ruled from Paris. Being a French minority in a Dutch state would be worse and again the Dutch wouldn't want them, they'd be more of a pain than the Flemings only poorer.
Complete split into two independent countries is a different deal, that could happen. But if it did the first thing to happen would be East Flanders wanting to be separate from West Flanders. The whole point of Belgium is to be an awkward sod and separate from everybody else, same as the Swiss really. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:24 - Mar 20 with 2470 views | stowmarketrange |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 20:56 - Mar 20 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't think it's likely that the Flemish would join the Netherlands any more than the Walloons want to be part of France.
Historically the Flemish are Catholic and the Dutch largely Calvinist (with a significant Catholic minority). That goes back to the whole Dutch War of independence against Spain (Catholic obvs) and its actually why the Belgians fought a war of independence against the Dutch in 1830.
I don't think the religious thing is so big now but it's still an issue as in Europe Catholic tends to be right-of-centre (Christian Democrats etc) and the main Flemish political parties are conservative/right wing. The Netherlands tends to (in UK terms) Liberal governments with a right-wing (anti-Islamic) opposition. Throwing a lot of conservative, mildly traditionalist Catholics into that mix is going to be unhappy for probably both sides.
And why would they want to? As Brexit has shown in NI, being in the EU takes away the border, a Fleming can go from Brugge to Amsterdam without showing a passport or changing money. They also have their own regional government which they lose if they become part of the Netherlands. What do they get in return for being ruled from The Hague? Offloading the Walloons is the only plus I can see.
Wallonia is an ex-mining area so no surprises it traditionally votes Socialist. The French won't want another ex-industrial wasteland, their own worst one is the same coalfield the other side of the border. For the Walloons the same deal as Flanders applies, they already can come and go to France seamlessly if they want to, they have their very own pork-barrel regional government, they get nothing from being a poor province ruled from Paris. Being a French minority in a Dutch state would be worse and again the Dutch wouldn't want them, they'd be more of a pain than the Flemings only poorer.
Complete split into two independent countries is a different deal, that could happen. But if it did the first thing to happen would be East Flanders wanting to be separate from West Flanders. The whole point of Belgium is to be an awkward sod and separate from everybody else, same as the Swiss really. |
Who said the Belgians are boring and that nothing ever happens there? | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:36 - Mar 20 with 2451 views | MrSheen |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 20:56 - Mar 20 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't think it's likely that the Flemish would join the Netherlands any more than the Walloons want to be part of France.
Historically the Flemish are Catholic and the Dutch largely Calvinist (with a significant Catholic minority). That goes back to the whole Dutch War of independence against Spain (Catholic obvs) and its actually why the Belgians fought a war of independence against the Dutch in 1830.
I don't think the religious thing is so big now but it's still an issue as in Europe Catholic tends to be right-of-centre (Christian Democrats etc) and the main Flemish political parties are conservative/right wing. The Netherlands tends to (in UK terms) Liberal governments with a right-wing (anti-Islamic) opposition. Throwing a lot of conservative, mildly traditionalist Catholics into that mix is going to be unhappy for probably both sides.
And why would they want to? As Brexit has shown in NI, being in the EU takes away the border, a Fleming can go from Brugge to Amsterdam without showing a passport or changing money. They also have their own regional government which they lose if they become part of the Netherlands. What do they get in return for being ruled from The Hague? Offloading the Walloons is the only plus I can see.
Wallonia is an ex-mining area so no surprises it traditionally votes Socialist. The French won't want another ex-industrial wasteland, their own worst one is the same coalfield the other side of the border. For the Walloons the same deal as Flanders applies, they already can come and go to France seamlessly if they want to, they have their very own pork-barrel regional government, they get nothing from being a poor province ruled from Paris. Being a French minority in a Dutch state would be worse and again the Dutch wouldn't want them, they'd be more of a pain than the Flemings only poorer.
Complete split into two independent countries is a different deal, that could happen. But if it did the first thing to happen would be East Flanders wanting to be separate from West Flanders. The whole point of Belgium is to be an awkward sod and separate from everybody else, same as the Swiss really. |
Belgium is a bit of a failed state, but being part of the EU means it doesn’t matter, as you say. What would be the point of a breakaway or civil war if you you end up part of the same super state however it works out?
We used to go to Flanders a lot, and it is clear that the language split between north and south is also about economics and politics. Religion is as irrelevant there now as anywhere else in Western Europe. But speak to people in Flanders in French? Quel horreur, as they would never say.
The French speaking south is the rust belt of ex mining and steel, while the Dutch speaking North is light industry, services, full employment and resentment of the “parasitic” South. Like in a lot of places in Europe, there was left-wing controlled public TV and right wing controlled TV (management nominated by the parties) but in Belgium you have to multiply it by the two languages and add another layer for mixed Brussels/Bruxelles/Brussel. The Bataclan attackers were actually from Brussels and part of the reason they weren’t stopped is that they were supervised by six different police authorities covering a single area.
Still, much better beer and food than Holland! | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:53 - Mar 20 with 2422 views | Gloucs_R |
Please don't turn this into a political thread. Thanks
Yes, I have edited this comment. 😠[Post edited 21 Mar 2021 11:03]
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 23:39 - Mar 20 with 2320 views | MrSheen |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:53 - Mar 20 by Gloucs_R |
Please don't turn this into a political thread. Thanks
Yes, I have edited this comment. 😠[Post edited 21 Mar 2021 11:03]
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Meant to add, one night I was watching Flemish Telly, and there was a quiz show on which seemed to be a Flemish grammar test. A Belgian Flemish team were thrilled to get every question right, while the Dutch team were, “Who caresh, we all shpeak English alwaysh”. Language is everything to the Belgian Vlaams, very little over the border. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 23:53 - Mar 20 with 2292 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:53 - Mar 20 by Gloucs_R |
Please don't turn this into a political thread. Thanks
Yes, I have edited this comment. 😠[Post edited 21 Mar 2021 11:03]
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Bit off-topic I know, but I don't think a ruck's going to break out over Belgian politics. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 00:03 - Mar 21 with 2280 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 21:36 - Mar 20 by MrSheen |
Belgium is a bit of a failed state, but being part of the EU means it doesn’t matter, as you say. What would be the point of a breakaway or civil war if you you end up part of the same super state however it works out?
We used to go to Flanders a lot, and it is clear that the language split between north and south is also about economics and politics. Religion is as irrelevant there now as anywhere else in Western Europe. But speak to people in Flanders in French? Quel horreur, as they would never say.
The French speaking south is the rust belt of ex mining and steel, while the Dutch speaking North is light industry, services, full employment and resentment of the “parasitic” South. Like in a lot of places in Europe, there was left-wing controlled public TV and right wing controlled TV (management nominated by the parties) but in Belgium you have to multiply it by the two languages and add another layer for mixed Brussels/Bruxelles/Brussel. The Bataclan attackers were actually from Brussels and part of the reason they weren’t stopped is that they were supervised by six different police authorities covering a single area.
Still, much better beer and food than Holland! |
Agree on the nature of the split.
Religion's less important - which is part of the prob in Belgium as it's the reason for the country - but it's not irrelevant. There's a complete match between Catholicism and the CDU vote in most of former West Germany, in France the left hates the church, etc etc. Historically there's a strong link between Catholicism and conservatism all over Europe (especially the East) which is about history and tradition more than actual religion.
I'm just saying that means the Flemish are notably more conservative than the Dutch and putting the two in one country is either going to push the Dutch to the right (against the wishes of the current Dutch majority) or leave the Flemish under a liberal government they won't like - I don't see it happening. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 00:09 - Mar 21 with 2268 views | MrSheen |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 00:03 - Mar 21 by CiderwithRsie |
Agree on the nature of the split.
Religion's less important - which is part of the prob in Belgium as it's the reason for the country - but it's not irrelevant. There's a complete match between Catholicism and the CDU vote in most of former West Germany, in France the left hates the church, etc etc. Historically there's a strong link between Catholicism and conservatism all over Europe (especially the East) which is about history and tradition more than actual religion.
I'm just saying that means the Flemish are notably more conservative than the Dutch and putting the two in one country is either going to push the Dutch to the right (against the wishes of the current Dutch majority) or leave the Flemish under a liberal government they won't like - I don't see it happening. |
My own sense is that the Flemish play up their conservatism because they feel they’re being taken for a ride by the Walloons, and they would be less prickly with the Dutch. The Dutch are also more conservative than their public image. Still, I don’t think they cry themselves to sleep worrying about their partners over the border and Union with Flanders isn’t among their top 100 priorities.
Very fond memories of Knokke-Heist, I was there on Jamie Pollock Day. | | | |
| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 12:49 - Mar 21 with 1985 views | LazyFan |
If the leagues merge and then there is flemish split politics wise, this could create a very good Nederlands team over time.
Another country who will want to and may have the capability to give zee jermans a regular pasting football-wise, I am all for it :P |  |
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| Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge on 09:38 - Mar 22 with 1816 views | DannyPaddox |
I was randomly listening to Radio Kent one Saturday in the late 80s. On the early morning news (9 or 10 am) they finished with a story that Gillingham FC had run a feasibility study of their budget and expenses and the only way the club could survive and compete in the future was to join the French league. They said their application hadn’t been formally accepted but the French football authorities were keen and there was currently an ongoing discussion at what level they would enter the league system across the channel (either 2nd Division or a regional 3rd Tier).
The next couple of hours of the show was phone call after phone call of apoplectic Gillingham fans. The general tone was emotional. I’ve supported this club all my life. This is an outrage etc. World War II and Dunkirk also somehow found its way into the conversation. Only one call supported the counter argument We’ve got to be realistic. Football’s changing. It’s the club’s survival we’re taking about, and hey the pies might be nicer.
And then at midday there was further breaking news on the story. Told in just two words ... April Fool! |  | | |
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