| Spurs Hilarity 09:51 - Jun 18 with 4600 views | Antti_Heinola |
I still look back fondly to MBers on here bowing at the feet of Daniel Levy. And it still makes me laugh.
Absolute charlatan. This search for a manager nonsense is absolutely hilarious, particularly after his usual 'let's go for that manager that used to be in charge of Chelsea' approach failed. Amateurish, desperate, and hilarious.
Tactical Tim looking more likely by the hour. |  |
| |  |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:02 - Jun 18 with 3105 views | MrSheen |
Multiple European trophies, national title, European Coach of the Year, it has to be Unai Emery. They learned to love George Graham, didn't they? |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:11 - Jun 18 with 3076 views | essextaxiboy |
Flat track bully in the transfer market til smaller clubs got richer and called his bluff . |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:16 - Jun 18 with 3042 views | EastR |
shrewd negotiator my arse |  |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:25 - Jun 18 with 3009 views | daveB |
He did a very good job managing Redknapp but started to believe his own press and they've been a mess off the pitch for 5/6 years now getting weaker with every transfer window |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:28 - Jun 18 with 3001 views | Maggsinho |
Sam Allardyce surely gets closer with every passing day. |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:30 - Jun 18 with 2991 views | ozexile |
I'd love to know the thought process in getting rid of Pochettino. Crazy crazy decision. | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:31 - Jun 18 with 2991 views | danehoop |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:25 - Jun 18 by daveB |
He did a very good job managing Redknapp but started to believe his own press and they've been a mess off the pitch for 5/6 years now getting weaker with every transfer window |
I thought he'd done OK until the appointment of Mourinho (we can knock them, but new ground, sustainable finances, relatively successful transfer dealings indicate he was doing something right). That one appointment seems to have hit them hard as its impacted upon the squad, style of play, player development and pathway to first team. Whoever comes in will have a big job settling everything back down again at a time where money is likely to be more limited. The names associated with the role at the moment don't give an indication that Levy has necessarily learned lessons from the situation.
Long may it continue..... |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:35 - Jun 18 with 2972 views | eghamranger |
Loads clearly don’t fancy it… Parker may still go there.
Whoever he appoints he will then say… we got the right man for the job blah and he was the one we really wanted…. Blah blah blah.
Without Kane they are just a mid table team. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:36 - Jun 18 with 2958 views | daveB |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:31 - Jun 18 by danehoop |
I thought he'd done OK until the appointment of Mourinho (we can knock them, but new ground, sustainable finances, relatively successful transfer dealings indicate he was doing something right). That one appointment seems to have hit them hard as its impacted upon the squad, style of play, player development and pathway to first team. Whoever comes in will have a big job settling everything back down again at a time where money is likely to be more limited. The names associated with the role at the moment don't give an indication that Levy has necessarily learned lessons from the situation.
Long may it continue..... |
I think the fall was coming before Mourinhio, they hadn't strengthened the team in 2/3 years and were starting to go stale, they seemed to be of the arrogant belief that there was no one who could make their team any better which is laughable when you see what clubs like Man City do every year always trying to improve and freshen things up.
The stadium looks fantastic though. | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:46 - Jun 18 with 2924 views | ted_hendrix |
The Cheese Room has been a massive success by all accounts.
Respect. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:55 - Jun 18 with 2890 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:46 - Jun 18 by ted_hendrix |
The Cheese Room has been a massive success by all accounts.
Respect. |
I have been told they stock cheeses from all over the world except for cheeses of Nazareth. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:01 - Jun 18 with 2862 views | HantsR |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:55 - Jun 18 by Esox_Lucius |
I have been told they stock cheeses from all over the world except for cheeses of Nazareth. |
That was just the baby cheeses that wise men came in search of. |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:08 - Jun 18 with 2847 views | TacticalR |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:30 - Jun 18 by ozexile |
I'd love to know the thought process in getting rid of Pochettino. Crazy crazy decision. |
Can't remember who said it, maybe Martin Lipton, but the choice was between getting rid of the manager or getting rid of the team (rebuilding), and it was considered easier/cheaper to get rid of the manager. |  |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:18 - Jun 18 with 2797 views | Phildo |
You start out with a reputation as a tough negotiator great for sorting out the club, it moves over time to 'shafts everyone he deals with' and in the end you are the problem because everyone adds three noughts as a starting point to every conversation with you. Bit like O'Leary with Ryanair |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:21 - Jun 18 with 2786 views | eghamranger |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:08 - Jun 18 by TacticalR |
Can't remember who said it, maybe Martin Lipton, but the choice was between getting rid of the manager or getting rid of the team (rebuilding), and it was considered easier/cheaper to get rid of the manager. |
Twice 😂😂 | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 12:07 - Jun 18 with 2633 views | LazyFan |
I see Clubs play the Moneyball game, but that only works if your one of the few playing it.
Once the others catch up, then there is no difference. Added that the sellers now know because your in for their player, then he must be worth more than you thought the price goes up.
Brentford I notice have started paying lots more for players than they used to. This time it's worked as most clubs in the Championship have not caught up on Moneyball. We only recently have done this in the last 3 years. But soon even they will befall when the rest are forced via FFP to catch up.
What then? Well, it will come down to who has the better infrastructure to develop homegrown players. This is Brentford's biggest mistake not doing an Academy and when it gets finally built our biggest advantage long term. Clubs can still hunt for bargains, but having an Academy means you can put more money into pricer players that have more potential and are chased by more clubs. As you can grow you own to sub for the ones you missed out on. |  |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 12:16 - Jun 18 with 2604 views | eastside_r |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:18 - Jun 18 by Phildo |
You start out with a reputation as a tough negotiator great for sorting out the club, it moves over time to 'shafts everyone he deals with' and in the end you are the problem because everyone adds three noughts as a starting point to every conversation with you. Bit like O'Leary with Ryanair |
Articulated better than I could.
Negotiating is a small but important part of my job and I don’t claim to be an expert but you can only pull those tricks that Levy got away with a limited number of times.
Long term good negotiation relies on both parties accepting that the other party is acting in good faith. |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 12:50 - Jun 18 with 2527 views | robith |
| Spurs Hilarity on 11:08 - Jun 18 by TacticalR |
Can't remember who said it, maybe Martin Lipton, but the choice was between getting rid of the manager or getting rid of the team (rebuilding), and it was considered easier/cheaper to get rid of the manager. |
Yeah prevailing chat I've heard is that there was tons of intra squad drama and Pooch said to the hierarchy he wasn't up to sorting it out. So they plumped for Mourinho hoping he could beat them back into shape |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 13:28 - Jun 18 with 2439 views | NW5Hoop |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:55 - Jun 18 by Esox_Lucius |
I have been told they stock cheeses from all over the world except for cheeses of Nazareth. |
Please tell me this isn't an "amusing" reference to Jewishness. | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 14:06 - Jun 18 with 2335 views | R_from_afar |
| Spurs Hilarity on 10:31 - Jun 18 by danehoop |
I thought he'd done OK until the appointment of Mourinho (we can knock them, but new ground, sustainable finances, relatively successful transfer dealings indicate he was doing something right). That one appointment seems to have hit them hard as its impacted upon the squad, style of play, player development and pathway to first team. Whoever comes in will have a big job settling everything back down again at a time where money is likely to be more limited. The names associated with the role at the moment don't give an indication that Levy has necessarily learned lessons from the situation.
Long may it continue..... |
"...new ground, sustainable finances"
I'm not so sure: "Figures in the latest accounts for Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd to 30 June 2019 show the club must pay back an average of £37m-a-year until 2042 to pay off the full amount".
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11676596/tottenham-stadium-loan-repaymen
I'm really not keen on Levy, he's a nasty piece of work in my humble opinion. He treated Martin Jol appallingly, as an example. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
| |
| Spurs Hilarity on 14:18 - Jun 18 with 2297 views | MrSheen |
| Spurs Hilarity on 14:06 - Jun 18 by R_from_afar |
"...new ground, sustainable finances"
I'm not so sure: "Figures in the latest accounts for Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd to 30 June 2019 show the club must pay back an average of £37m-a-year until 2042 to pay off the full amount".
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11676596/tottenham-stadium-loan-repaymen
I'm really not keen on Levy, he's a nasty piece of work in my humble opinion. He treated Martin Jol appallingly, as an example. |
The new stadium hardly turned Arsenal into a financial superpower either. | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 15:58 - Jun 18 with 2204 views | NewBee |
In reply to 'LazyFan' six posts back (sorry, can't get the hang of the Edit/Reply function):
LF: "I see Clubs play the Moneyball game, but that only works if your one of the few playing it.
Once the others catch up, then there is no difference."
NB: Moneyball is already over two decades old in Baseball and Bees have been playing it for a decade or more in football, so why haven't other clubs already adopted it?
Basically because it's not simply a case of running a few stats through the old computer and picking your transfer targets. Rather it takes time, expertise, money, patience and long-term vision.
Bees are incredibly lucky to have an owner who has those things, but when most clubs eg change their manager more frequently than their socks, how many other owners do? And even if they do, how many of their fans have the patience to wait for the results to come through?
Bees got an early promotion from League One after Benham took the reins, but we still spent 7 seasons in the Championship before the strategy paid off. Where else do you get that time?
LF: "Added that the sellers now know because your in for their player, then he must be worth more than you thought the price goes up."
NB: If your player is "worth" £1m and you're prepared to accept that, it is risking it to suddenly demand £2m from Bees, since they can always walk away and look to the next target on the list.
Besides which Bees often have an advantage over other clubs by offering generous sell-on clauses. For example, Watkins cost an initial £1.8m from Exeter, but by the time he made his England debut, they'd already received over £6m. While Toney's initial fee to Posh was £5m, but has now reached £10m after one season.
And in any case, many clubs are so strapped for cash they'll gratefully accept the first half-decent offer just to keep the lights on.
LF: "Brentford I notice have started paying lots more for players than they used to. This time it's worked as most clubs in the Championship have not caught up on Moneyball. We only recently have done this in the last 3 years. But soon even they will befall when the rest are forced via FFP to catch up."
NB: At first, Bees were signing players eg for £500k and hoping to sell for £2m. Next it was signing for £2m and selling for £10m. Recently it's been buy for £5m and sell for £25m.
If they can manage to stay in the PL for a bit, I suspect it will be buy for £10m and sell for £35-40m?
If they can reach that stage (stress the "if"), then I think they can leave behind most of the clubs in the EFL, who can't afford those levels, even if they are playing Moneyball.
But we'll see.
LF: "What then? Well, it will come down to who has the better infrastructure to develop homegrown players. This is Brentford's biggest mistake not doing an Academy and when it gets finally built our biggest advantage long term. Clubs can still hunt for bargains, but having an Academy means you can put more money into pricer players that have more potential and are chased by more clubs. As you can grow you own to sub for the ones you missed out on."
NB: Except that Bees didn't "not do" an Academy - quite the opposite! When the Academy system was made manadatory, Bees actually invested a hefty 7 figure sum on theirs, such that it was (I think) one of just two Category B Academies operated by a League One club. And it started off fine, with the most prominent graduate being Chris Mepham, who we sold to Bournemouth for £12m. (Meps - Hammersmith-born and a QPR fan - had been at Chelsea as a boy before joining Bees, btw).
Then the PL bunged the EFL a few quid in return for changing the Academy rules, to put a cap on the compensation due if a player moved to another club's Academy. Bees then lost Joe Hardy and Ian Poveda to Liverpool and Man. City for the maximum £50k each, when they might previously have expected £500k+ each.
At which point Benham decided he wasn't gong to spend his money developing players for other clubs, so he came up with the 'B' Team concept.
Reasoning that unless you've got a Foden or a Bellingham on your books, it's often far too early to discard Academy players at 17 or 18, Benham reckoned that there must be plenty of talented 18 or 19 y.o.'s out there who would benefit from a second chance. (And let's face it the concept of the Late Developer is hardly a new one - see eg Ferdinand, Wright, Vardy or even Kane, to name just a few England No.9's.)
So that this season alone, 6 x 'B' team graduates made their 1st XI debut for Brentford, with half of them playing a pivotal part in the promotion push.
None of which is to "big up" Bees (well only a bit!), but rather to explain why, whilst the Brentford Model seems superficially simple enough, in practice I don't think you'll see that many clubs following it (see my 2nd para again).
But seeing as I'm here, I'd say QPR could give it a better shot than most, since whatever else, your owners seem committed over the long-term. While in Ferdinand, Hoos, Ramsey and Warburton etc, you have key personnel who should be able to give it a right good go. [Post edited 18 Jun 2021 16:20]
| | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 17:57 - Jun 18 with 2040 views | TGRRRSSS |
Drifted in part from Levy, but I do think he's got to a point where it's a mess.
They mess really started when they missed out to Leicester in 2016 in my view - then failing to add an d alter the squad here and there.
Also worth remembering Levy is more like Lee Hoos (probably much better remunerated though) rather than TF and Ruben and co at QPR.
JOe Lewis owns the club and he doesn't seem to want to spend mega monies, by the same token many signings havent really worked for them in the past few years.
The academy/Brentford type thing is for another thread really, but it's worth considering how few statistically make it.
I think Brentford thought picking up Chelsea cast offs as one example might be more financially rewarding (on and off the pitch) |  | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 18:07 - Jun 18 with 2031 views | Welsh_Ranger |
| Spurs Hilarity on 15:58 - Jun 18 by NewBee |
In reply to 'LazyFan' six posts back (sorry, can't get the hang of the Edit/Reply function):
LF: "I see Clubs play the Moneyball game, but that only works if your one of the few playing it.
Once the others catch up, then there is no difference."
NB: Moneyball is already over two decades old in Baseball and Bees have been playing it for a decade or more in football, so why haven't other clubs already adopted it?
Basically because it's not simply a case of running a few stats through the old computer and picking your transfer targets. Rather it takes time, expertise, money, patience and long-term vision.
Bees are incredibly lucky to have an owner who has those things, but when most clubs eg change their manager more frequently than their socks, how many other owners do? And even if they do, how many of their fans have the patience to wait for the results to come through?
Bees got an early promotion from League One after Benham took the reins, but we still spent 7 seasons in the Championship before the strategy paid off. Where else do you get that time?
LF: "Added that the sellers now know because your in for their player, then he must be worth more than you thought the price goes up."
NB: If your player is "worth" £1m and you're prepared to accept that, it is risking it to suddenly demand £2m from Bees, since they can always walk away and look to the next target on the list.
Besides which Bees often have an advantage over other clubs by offering generous sell-on clauses. For example, Watkins cost an initial £1.8m from Exeter, but by the time he made his England debut, they'd already received over £6m. While Toney's initial fee to Posh was £5m, but has now reached £10m after one season.
And in any case, many clubs are so strapped for cash they'll gratefully accept the first half-decent offer just to keep the lights on.
LF: "Brentford I notice have started paying lots more for players than they used to. This time it's worked as most clubs in the Championship have not caught up on Moneyball. We only recently have done this in the last 3 years. But soon even they will befall when the rest are forced via FFP to catch up."
NB: At first, Bees were signing players eg for £500k and hoping to sell for £2m. Next it was signing for £2m and selling for £10m. Recently it's been buy for £5m and sell for £25m.
If they can manage to stay in the PL for a bit, I suspect it will be buy for £10m and sell for £35-40m?
If they can reach that stage (stress the "if"), then I think they can leave behind most of the clubs in the EFL, who can't afford those levels, even if they are playing Moneyball.
But we'll see.
LF: "What then? Well, it will come down to who has the better infrastructure to develop homegrown players. This is Brentford's biggest mistake not doing an Academy and when it gets finally built our biggest advantage long term. Clubs can still hunt for bargains, but having an Academy means you can put more money into pricer players that have more potential and are chased by more clubs. As you can grow you own to sub for the ones you missed out on."
NB: Except that Bees didn't "not do" an Academy - quite the opposite! When the Academy system was made manadatory, Bees actually invested a hefty 7 figure sum on theirs, such that it was (I think) one of just two Category B Academies operated by a League One club. And it started off fine, with the most prominent graduate being Chris Mepham, who we sold to Bournemouth for £12m. (Meps - Hammersmith-born and a QPR fan - had been at Chelsea as a boy before joining Bees, btw).
Then the PL bunged the EFL a few quid in return for changing the Academy rules, to put a cap on the compensation due if a player moved to another club's Academy. Bees then lost Joe Hardy and Ian Poveda to Liverpool and Man. City for the maximum £50k each, when they might previously have expected £500k+ each.
At which point Benham decided he wasn't gong to spend his money developing players for other clubs, so he came up with the 'B' Team concept.
Reasoning that unless you've got a Foden or a Bellingham on your books, it's often far too early to discard Academy players at 17 or 18, Benham reckoned that there must be plenty of talented 18 or 19 y.o.'s out there who would benefit from a second chance. (And let's face it the concept of the Late Developer is hardly a new one - see eg Ferdinand, Wright, Vardy or even Kane, to name just a few England No.9's.)
So that this season alone, 6 x 'B' team graduates made their 1st XI debut for Brentford, with half of them playing a pivotal part in the promotion push.
None of which is to "big up" Bees (well only a bit!), but rather to explain why, whilst the Brentford Model seems superficially simple enough, in practice I don't think you'll see that many clubs following it (see my 2nd para again).
But seeing as I'm here, I'd say QPR could give it a better shot than most, since whatever else, your owners seem committed over the long-term. While in Ferdinand, Hoos, Ramsey and Warburton etc, you have key personnel who should be able to give it a right good go. [Post edited 18 Jun 2021 16:20]
|
Love your reasoned response!! Their is a lot to admire about the work Benham and co have done and others like Norwich have achieved.
I think our current strategy incorporates some of your principles and we are very much modelling ourselves as a last chance saloon with a route to the first team hoping to mop up academy prospects who might have had a few injuries....
Hopefully room for a few different interpretations. | | | |
| Spurs Hilarity on 18:20 - Jun 18 with 2006 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Spurs Hilarity on 13:28 - Jun 18 by NW5Hoop |
Please tell me this isn't an "amusing" reference to Jewishness. |
I would doubt it. Just a nice pun, I think.
Baby Cheeses was another good one. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
