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Shape/Personnel 16:37 - Oct 16 with 8916 viewsHunterhoop

Unpopular opinion alert.

I think with the system we’re trying to play, Johansen, whilst quality on the ball, IS the problem with our shape and the number of goals we’re conceding. He’s a passenger out of possession. Good teams just play around him. Ball was terrible alongside him and the sub meant it was Chair there….honestly, if you want to keep this shape, you can you can only play 2 of Johansen/Chair/Willock against the good sides. You need legs or the defence to play incredibly high, but up against pace, you set up our back 3 to get turned.

I’m not sure what the answer is, but this two man central midfield with Johansen is not working. No legs.

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Shape/Personnel on 19:42 - Oct 17 with 1789 viewsEsox_Lucius

Shape/Personnel on 12:17 - Oct 17 by distortR

I agree with all that, but really not convinced by Kakay yet.


Kane is playing well for Coventry since joining them.

The grass is always greener.

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Shape/Personnel on 09:34 - Oct 18 with 1612 viewsTheChef

Shape/Personnel on 21:43 - Oct 16 by robith

I thought we were crying out for Amos today. We were so passive in defence, I know he's being managed , but his press would've been much needed.

Austin was isolated, so a second striker was welcomed, but we were overrun in midfield, so reducing it to just Stef was a huge error imo


It was a big gamble and paid off with the equaliser - but at that point you probably take off Austin and shore up midfield. Doesn't mean we're not looking to win the game but it should at least make us harder to go through.

Poll: How old is everyone on here?

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Shape/Personnel on 22:10 - Oct 23 with 1436 viewsHunterhoop

Anyone have any further thoughts on this after the last two games?

Personally, I’m even more convinced that either our shape needs to change or Johansen can’t start. You need more legs in the middle of the pitch, you need to protect the defence more, but we could also benefit from an extra midfielder instead of the 3rd centre half. Our back 3 are too slow to play high, which means either you play deep meaning tons of space in the park we don’t have the legs/numbers to cover OR you play high, but you then need to ensure you allow the oppo midfield no time and space to play good balls in behind us.
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Shape/Personnel on 01:34 - Oct 24 with 1308 viewsWatfordR

Shape/Personnel on 22:10 - Oct 23 by Hunterhoop

Anyone have any further thoughts on this after the last two games?

Personally, I’m even more convinced that either our shape needs to change or Johansen can’t start. You need more legs in the middle of the pitch, you need to protect the defence more, but we could also benefit from an extra midfielder instead of the 3rd centre half. Our back 3 are too slow to play high, which means either you play deep meaning tons of space in the park we don’t have the legs/numbers to cover OR you play high, but you then need to ensure you allow the oppo midfield no time and space to play good balls in behind us.


Still looks like tempo and movement off the ball is the bigger problem to me. Constantly switching from left to right at such a slow pace means that both wing backs are getting caught too far forward if a move breaks down. With so many teams playing just one up, three CBs ought to be able to cope, but when you've all of a sudden got two runners linking up against three CBs, we're obviously vulnerable.

One thing I've noticed is that we frequently play the ball side to side between the CBs when they are static, which means opposition are able to keep their shape and shuffle left to right. Once there's a bit of go forward with the ball amongst the CBs we immediately look more threatening. That's what I meant when I said earlier in the week they need to be a little braver on the ball.

In my opinion, most of the time we look to play the easy pass sideways or back rather than looking for line breaking ball which again needs a little more bravery. They don't need to be "worldy" passes, but often they are there to be made and we pass them up.

First time this season I've been really disappointed with us, but it seems to me that increasingly we are looking at possession for possession's sake. I'm not really into digging out players, but it isn't helping that Dom Ball is looking well out of sorts from a passing perspective, and that's forcing Johansen and also Chair at times to drop too deep to get the ball.
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Shape/Personnel on 08:16 - Oct 24 with 1214 views1JD

Shape/Personnel on 01:34 - Oct 24 by WatfordR

Still looks like tempo and movement off the ball is the bigger problem to me. Constantly switching from left to right at such a slow pace means that both wing backs are getting caught too far forward if a move breaks down. With so many teams playing just one up, three CBs ought to be able to cope, but when you've all of a sudden got two runners linking up against three CBs, we're obviously vulnerable.

One thing I've noticed is that we frequently play the ball side to side between the CBs when they are static, which means opposition are able to keep their shape and shuffle left to right. Once there's a bit of go forward with the ball amongst the CBs we immediately look more threatening. That's what I meant when I said earlier in the week they need to be a little braver on the ball.

In my opinion, most of the time we look to play the easy pass sideways or back rather than looking for line breaking ball which again needs a little more bravery. They don't need to be "worldy" passes, but often they are there to be made and we pass them up.

First time this season I've been really disappointed with us, but it seems to me that increasingly we are looking at possession for possession's sake. I'm not really into digging out players, but it isn't helping that Dom Ball is looking well out of sorts from a passing perspective, and that's forcing Johansen and also Chair at times to drop too deep to get the ball.


Your analysis speaks to our on the ball play, which is evidently not the problem since we are top scorers behind Fulham. Whilst there is improvement to be had in our passing lines against teams that sit in (like P’Boro) the far bigger problem is off the ball. Our shape when we lose it hurting us time and again. The CM positions and wing backs - the four midfielders - are all at sea shape wise.

The wing backs are high and wide, and if we lose the ball, they are immediately the “wrong side” of play and cannot get back quick enough. So we have two CMs as our first line of defence, but Johansen ambles about, is slow, and is a virtual passenger out of possession. Not what you want or need from a CM. It’s part of the job description. No surprise that the last 2 clean sheets we had - Birmingham and Blackburn (both wins), Johansen did not play. We are far more solid without him. And with him, if he really on form this season, even on the ball?

At wing back, Wallace has been a big miss, whilst Odubajo is another major culprit of our midfield defensive inefficiencies. The midfield four needs a rethink and a rebalance, we are far too open and the combination is not clearly right given the alarming rate at which we ship goals.
[Post edited 24 Oct 2021 8:26]
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Shape/Personnel on 08:40 - Oct 24 with 1171 viewstraininvain

Shape/Personnel on 22:10 - Oct 23 by Hunterhoop

Anyone have any further thoughts on this after the last two games?

Personally, I’m even more convinced that either our shape needs to change or Johansen can’t start. You need more legs in the middle of the pitch, you need to protect the defence more, but we could also benefit from an extra midfielder instead of the 3rd centre half. Our back 3 are too slow to play high, which means either you play deep meaning tons of space in the park we don’t have the legs/numbers to cover OR you play high, but you then need to ensure you allow the oppo midfield no time and space to play good balls in behind us.


I’d be more minded to drop a striker (Austin) and try to get a bit more creativity in midfield as we’re not creating many chances. Something along the lines of:

Dieng

Dunne
Dickie
Barbet

Adomah
Johansen
Amos (if fit, Ball if not)
McCallum

Chair
Willock

Dykes

Chair and Willock to drop back into midfield when we’re not in possession.
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Shape/Personnel on 09:22 - Oct 24 with 1135 viewssteveo04

I posted after the Fulham game that we are desperate for a change , the team desperately needs a tweak , yes we beat Blackburn, but let’s face it they didn’t come to attack . I hear Warburton talk about demands on his players with amount of games etc but for me he one of the major factors, he giving the players way to much to do with this formation. I see a lot of critical for stef but he is running around trying to plug gaps left right and centre,some have said Ball gone of the boil but again he running round like a lunatic. I seen another post about last 5 mins goals conceded, this is due to mental fatigue that back 3 are under pressure more or less 80% of the game the wing backs are so high that the centre backs are covering them but then the two midfielders are to high and the centre backs are not being covered. Peterborough like others have worked us out , they now if they attack our channels there in , for all our possession Peterborough knew stay solid and draw us in then hit the flanks , Preston knew it , Coventry knew it ( only bad finishing let them down ) Barnsley , Reading , Fulham knew it actually getting worrying , Mcallum went of injured yesterday why not put Kakay on go to a 4 with barbet going lb and get a point , the gung ho mentally will do us in the end
Go 433 get more solid get legs in the team.
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Shape/Personnel on 09:24 - Oct 24 with 1133 viewsParkRoyalR

Shape/Personnel on 08:40 - Oct 24 by traininvain

I’d be more minded to drop a striker (Austin) and try to get a bit more creativity in midfield as we’re not creating many chances. Something along the lines of:

Dieng

Dunne
Dickie
Barbet

Adomah
Johansen
Amos (if fit, Ball if not)
McCallum

Chair
Willock

Dykes

Chair and Willock to drop back into midfield when we’re not in possession.


100% agree, this is the only 11 we have currently that can keep us in and around Top 6 until Field + Wallace are fit - Yesterday with Austin was like playing with 10 men - Harsh but reflects his current fitness (or form - if you believe he is match-fit which I don't)
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Shape/Personnel on 09:33 - Oct 24 with 1110 viewsstevec

I understand Dembele is out of contract.
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Shape/Personnel on 09:54 - Oct 24 with 1096 viewsHunterhoop

Shape/Personnel on 08:40 - Oct 24 by traininvain

I’d be more minded to drop a striker (Austin) and try to get a bit more creativity in midfield as we’re not creating many chances. Something along the lines of:

Dieng

Dunne
Dickie
Barbet

Adomah
Johansen
Amos (if fit, Ball if not)
McCallum

Chair
Willock

Dykes

Chair and Willock to drop back into midfield when we’re not in possession.


It’s still only two men in the middle of the park.

We’ve played this shape most of the season and shipped two goals or more regularly. We’ve certainly played it more than having two up top.

As a shape it still leaves Johansen as one of two central midfielders.

Teams just sit off the back 3 and press the wing backs, midfield 2, and Chair and Willock when we try to play out. Queue us “moving the ball too slowly” as Warburton keeps saying.

I think that shake ignores some bigger issues.

Oh, and if you think Dunne still warrants starting over De Wijs after yesterday’s showing, I’m very surprised. De Wijs has played far better in his time with us that Dunne. He’s also significantly quicker than Dunne. I like Dunne but I think lots of people think he’s the finished article already, when he’s not. Neither is Dickie.
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Shape/Personnel on 09:55 - Oct 24 with 1095 viewsnix

Shape/Personnel on 09:24 - Oct 24 by ParkRoyalR

100% agree, this is the only 11 we have currently that can keep us in and around Top 6 until Field + Wallace are fit - Yesterday with Austin was like playing with 10 men - Harsh but reflects his current fitness (or form - if you believe he is match-fit which I don't)


I agree we can't start with Austin as he is at the moment. Love Charlie but for whatever reason he's not contributing enough to the team off the ball, whether in runs, link play, closing other players down etc. We haven't got enough pace or players that can cover back to manage with anyone who isn't contributing.

Maybe we could play Ossie/Moses and Albert/Thomas as a right midfielder who could provide an outlet to the defence and track back to help the right back or cover if the right back bombs forwards.

I wonder if we're getting caught out on the break because our centre backs are having to come up so high to be able to pass the ball to our attacking midfielders as there isn't an outlet.

Also, we have to move the ball quicker when we do make a break. I'm not sure why all our players , except maybe Albert, seem to check back all the time.
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Shape/Personnel on 10:03 - Oct 24 with 1082 viewsRangersw12

McCallum abysmal again yesterday. He is a massive weak link in this side. Doesn't bother to track back and doesn't seem interested

2 up top doesn't suit us and Warburton clearly got it wrong

2 big performances needed in the next 2 games
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Shape/Personnel on 10:13 - Oct 24 with 1071 viewsHunterhoop

Shape/Personnel on 09:55 - Oct 24 by nix

I agree we can't start with Austin as he is at the moment. Love Charlie but for whatever reason he's not contributing enough to the team off the ball, whether in runs, link play, closing other players down etc. We haven't got enough pace or players that can cover back to manage with anyone who isn't contributing.

Maybe we could play Ossie/Moses and Albert/Thomas as a right midfielder who could provide an outlet to the defence and track back to help the right back or cover if the right back bombs forwards.

I wonder if we're getting caught out on the break because our centre backs are having to come up so high to be able to pass the ball to our attacking midfielders as there isn't an outlet.

Also, we have to move the ball quicker when we do make a break. I'm not sure why all our players , except maybe Albert, seem to check back all the time.


Nix, the centre halves are so high to reduce the amount of space in the midfield. It’s the reason since football began teams “push up”, and “get out”. It means the oppo have less space to play football in.

But it’s always relied on having a midfield who, with less ground to cover, can get tight to the oppo to stop them successfully playing balls over the top to forwards over the shoulder.

Equally, another rule of defending is you do not play offside if the man on the ball has time and space. This is because they could choose to carry the ball forward as you step up this bursting through OR, more often, because with time and space they can pick and time the pass to beat the offside trap (assuming their colleagues have half a brain).

The reason you keep seeing our 3 centre halves on the 3/4 turn running towards Seny is because more often than not, an opposition player is marauding down the middle of the pitch, with runners ahead. They can’t step up, but being only 3 of them, at this level, you’d expect the oppo to create a chance.

The problem is the middle of the pitch. We just cannot get pressure on the ball or break play up. We’re fine in possession but woeful off it. I’d love to see Johansen’s and Ball’s tackle/interception stats. I would wager they’ll be very low, but our centre halves very high. The problem we have is that attacks (or almost all possessions) shouldn’t be getting to our back 3. That’s why some of our games look so open.

IF you want to play a luxury quarterback style midfielder, you need two people alongside him. That means either dropping one of Chair/Willock/Dykes (assuming you’re only playing one up top) OR you go to 4 at the back. Or you drop Johansen.

In my opinion, anyone trying to square the circle of Johansen, Chair, Willock and a back 3 is missing the point. It can only ever leave you one player in the middle of the pitch who can run and close down, which is not enough.
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Shape/Personnel on 10:45 - Oct 24 with 1040 viewstraininvain

Shape/Personnel on 09:54 - Oct 24 by Hunterhoop

It’s still only two men in the middle of the park.

We’ve played this shape most of the season and shipped two goals or more regularly. We’ve certainly played it more than having two up top.

As a shape it still leaves Johansen as one of two central midfielders.

Teams just sit off the back 3 and press the wing backs, midfield 2, and Chair and Willock when we try to play out. Queue us “moving the ball too slowly” as Warburton keeps saying.

I think that shake ignores some bigger issues.

Oh, and if you think Dunne still warrants starting over De Wijs after yesterday’s showing, I’m very surprised. De Wijs has played far better in his time with us that Dunne. He’s also significantly quicker than Dunne. I like Dunne but I think lots of people think he’s the finished article already, when he’s not. Neither is Dickie.


Agree re Dunne and De Wijs is probably the better option right now. But I’m not convinced that playing two centre backs instead of three will improve our defensive problems.

Personally I’d stick with three at the back and try to provide more cover from midfield. Amos will hopefully help in that respect and maybe Chair or Willock need to drop a bit deeper so that Johansen can do likewise.

The big hope is that we get Field and Wallace back soon as they’ll improve our overall balance.
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Shape/Personnel on 11:14 - Oct 24 with 1011 viewsnix

Shape/Personnel on 10:13 - Oct 24 by Hunterhoop

Nix, the centre halves are so high to reduce the amount of space in the midfield. It’s the reason since football began teams “push up”, and “get out”. It means the oppo have less space to play football in.

But it’s always relied on having a midfield who, with less ground to cover, can get tight to the oppo to stop them successfully playing balls over the top to forwards over the shoulder.

Equally, another rule of defending is you do not play offside if the man on the ball has time and space. This is because they could choose to carry the ball forward as you step up this bursting through OR, more often, because with time and space they can pick and time the pass to beat the offside trap (assuming their colleagues have half a brain).

The reason you keep seeing our 3 centre halves on the 3/4 turn running towards Seny is because more often than not, an opposition player is marauding down the middle of the pitch, with runners ahead. They can’t step up, but being only 3 of them, at this level, you’d expect the oppo to create a chance.

The problem is the middle of the pitch. We just cannot get pressure on the ball or break play up. We’re fine in possession but woeful off it. I’d love to see Johansen’s and Ball’s tackle/interception stats. I would wager they’ll be very low, but our centre halves very high. The problem we have is that attacks (or almost all possessions) shouldn’t be getting to our back 3. That’s why some of our games look so open.

IF you want to play a luxury quarterback style midfielder, you need two people alongside him. That means either dropping one of Chair/Willock/Dykes (assuming you’re only playing one up top) OR you go to 4 at the back. Or you drop Johansen.

In my opinion, anyone trying to square the circle of Johansen, Chair, Willock and a back 3 is missing the point. It can only ever leave you one player in the middle of the pitch who can run and close down, which is not enough.


Thanks.

Interesting!
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Shape/Personnel on 11:35 - Oct 24 with 983 viewsnix

Shape/Personnel on 10:13 - Oct 24 by Hunterhoop

Nix, the centre halves are so high to reduce the amount of space in the midfield. It’s the reason since football began teams “push up”, and “get out”. It means the oppo have less space to play football in.

But it’s always relied on having a midfield who, with less ground to cover, can get tight to the oppo to stop them successfully playing balls over the top to forwards over the shoulder.

Equally, another rule of defending is you do not play offside if the man on the ball has time and space. This is because they could choose to carry the ball forward as you step up this bursting through OR, more often, because with time and space they can pick and time the pass to beat the offside trap (assuming their colleagues have half a brain).

The reason you keep seeing our 3 centre halves on the 3/4 turn running towards Seny is because more often than not, an opposition player is marauding down the middle of the pitch, with runners ahead. They can’t step up, but being only 3 of them, at this level, you’d expect the oppo to create a chance.

The problem is the middle of the pitch. We just cannot get pressure on the ball or break play up. We’re fine in possession but woeful off it. I’d love to see Johansen’s and Ball’s tackle/interception stats. I would wager they’ll be very low, but our centre halves very high. The problem we have is that attacks (or almost all possessions) shouldn’t be getting to our back 3. That’s why some of our games look so open.

IF you want to play a luxury quarterback style midfielder, you need two people alongside him. That means either dropping one of Chair/Willock/Dykes (assuming you’re only playing one up top) OR you go to 4 at the back. Or you drop Johansen.

In my opinion, anyone trying to square the circle of Johansen, Chair, Willock and a back 3 is missing the point. It can only ever leave you one player in the middle of the pitch who can run and close down, which is not enough.


Just looked up the stats for our midfield yesterday. Johansen, two tackles, two interceptions. Ball no tackles one interception. Ball has more success with ground duels, winning four. Which would suggest he's okay when the ball is bobbling around, but not so good when the opposition has control of it and you're trying to win it back.
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Shape/Personnel on 12:55 - Oct 24 with 912 viewsgazza1

Shape/Personnel on 10:13 - Oct 24 by Hunterhoop

Nix, the centre halves are so high to reduce the amount of space in the midfield. It’s the reason since football began teams “push up”, and “get out”. It means the oppo have less space to play football in.

But it’s always relied on having a midfield who, with less ground to cover, can get tight to the oppo to stop them successfully playing balls over the top to forwards over the shoulder.

Equally, another rule of defending is you do not play offside if the man on the ball has time and space. This is because they could choose to carry the ball forward as you step up this bursting through OR, more often, because with time and space they can pick and time the pass to beat the offside trap (assuming their colleagues have half a brain).

The reason you keep seeing our 3 centre halves on the 3/4 turn running towards Seny is because more often than not, an opposition player is marauding down the middle of the pitch, with runners ahead. They can’t step up, but being only 3 of them, at this level, you’d expect the oppo to create a chance.

The problem is the middle of the pitch. We just cannot get pressure on the ball or break play up. We’re fine in possession but woeful off it. I’d love to see Johansen’s and Ball’s tackle/interception stats. I would wager they’ll be very low, but our centre halves very high. The problem we have is that attacks (or almost all possessions) shouldn’t be getting to our back 3. That’s why some of our games look so open.

IF you want to play a luxury quarterback style midfielder, you need two people alongside him. That means either dropping one of Chair/Willock/Dykes (assuming you’re only playing one up top) OR you go to 4 at the back. Or you drop Johansen.

In my opinion, anyone trying to square the circle of Johansen, Chair, Willock and a back 3 is missing the point. It can only ever leave you one player in the middle of the pitch who can run and close down, which is not enough.


That is 100% correct Hunter......I am baffled to see why 3 CB's are causing us so many problems lately. We are making more individual errors for sure - there were errors for the goals yesterday but not much talk about them!!!.....and that is not helping one bit.

I think one front runner would help the system, with an extra midfielder we may get a bit better defensively when we do not have the ball. The wide players need to be more defensive on occasions as well - we miss our original two wide players in Kakay (who has struggled but all new/young players do) & Wallace (covers a lot more ground than many think) who are more defensively minded.

We will see but I expect Kakay to start on Tuesday, along with the keeper, Jordi, Moses & perhaps one more. Difficult shout for MW as to what game is the most important S'land or Forest
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Shape/Personnel on 15:53 - Oct 24 with 847 viewsWatfordR

Shape/Personnel on 12:55 - Oct 24 by gazza1

That is 100% correct Hunter......I am baffled to see why 3 CB's are causing us so many problems lately. We are making more individual errors for sure - there were errors for the goals yesterday but not much talk about them!!!.....and that is not helping one bit.

I think one front runner would help the system, with an extra midfielder we may get a bit better defensively when we do not have the ball. The wide players need to be more defensive on occasions as well - we miss our original two wide players in Kakay (who has struggled but all new/young players do) & Wallace (covers a lot more ground than many think) who are more defensively minded.

We will see but I expect Kakay to start on Tuesday, along with the keeper, Jordi, Moses & perhaps one more. Difficult shout for MW as to what game is the most important S'land or Forest


As I alluded to earlier, my feeling is that the slow build up tempo and switching from side to side without going forward is a big part of the problem. We should not be getting caught on the counter with both wing backs behind the ball, but that side to side build up without going forward is drawing both of them too high up the pitch.

If we've got one central defensive midfielder and one of the wing backs close to the CBs, it's five outfield players back and five in advanced positions and we ought to be able to at least defend counter attacks better. Instead too often its three or four breaking at our 3 CBs and that's always going to be a problem.

At the moment, the problem is Johansen dropping too deep to collect the ball because Ball isn't playing well enough to do that and distribute effectively. He's then too far from Chair and Willock to play through the middle, so it's going left or right along the CBs, and then onto the wing backs, who are really in no man's land - not far enough forward to support an attack, but too far forward to help defensively on a counter.

May be Field will make a difference, but I still feel that the CBs are picked on ball playing merit, and therefore have to be pushing towards the halfway line with the ball, so that the opposition have to come out of position a bit more to close them and therefore release a bit more space for the attackers to utilise. That causes more of the opposition to drop back and therefore makes it harder to break in numbers when our move breaks down.
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Shape/Personnel on 16:06 - Oct 24 with 832 viewsdenhamhoop2

Wonder if it might be time to move one of the 3 centre backs into a midfield sitting role and maybe go with a 4 1 4 1 system because sadly Charlie just doesn't look fit and if you are playing 1 up front is has to be Dykes.
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Shape/Personnel on 23:24 - Oct 24 with 737 viewsHunterhoop

Shape/Personnel on 11:35 - Oct 24 by nix

Just looked up the stats for our midfield yesterday. Johansen, two tackles, two interceptions. Ball no tackles one interception. Ball has more success with ground duels, winning four. Which would suggest he's okay when the ball is bobbling around, but not so good when the opposition has control of it and you're trying to win it back.


Not at all surprising. In 90 mins in central midfield, that’s not great, especially given how Posh gave it a go.

Ball’s are even more typical. Like you say physical and useful in a 50/50, but getting close to a team passing it around, less so.

An extra central midfielder will make a world of difference.

Also, a back 4, with more disciplined full backs will also be more defensive than a back 3, where the wing backs are playing more as wingers. Or drop Johansen and go with legs in the middle 2.

I should add, all the above isn’t woe betide me stuff, or slagging off the team or manager. I just think it’s not working tactically for us and teams have figured us out. When this many teams can put 2 past you, something isn’t working and needs changing.

This team can still be very good. But we need to be more difficult to get to our box, let alone score! An additional benefit would be we’ll surely be more dangerous if we can win it higher up the pitch rather than building every attack from the keeper/back 3 with the oppo set.
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Shape/Personnel on 23:26 - Oct 24 with 736 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Amos looked tidy if not impactful I thought. Perhaps if we have a change of personnel / shape it could involve him for his possession keeping abilities? Holding more possession means saving the legs of Jojo and Austin who was breathing out of his arsehole when he came off.
[Post edited 24 Oct 2021 23:30]
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Shape/Personnel on 23:32 - Oct 24 with 730 viewsHunterhoop

Shape/Personnel on 23:26 - Oct 24 by BazzaInTheLoft

Amos looked tidy if not impactful I thought. Perhaps if we have a change of personnel / shape it could involve him for his possession keeping abilities? Holding more possession means saving the legs of Jojo and Austin who was breathing out of his arsehole when he came off.
[Post edited 24 Oct 2021 23:30]


Agree. Made a big difference against Blackburn when he came on. Less so yesterday. But we know he gets about the pitch. Would still like to see him really grab a position by the neck. Flirting between a few still.
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Shape/Personnel on 00:03 - Oct 25 with 721 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Shape/Personnel on 23:32 - Oct 24 by Hunterhoop

Agree. Made a big difference against Blackburn when he came on. Less so yesterday. But we know he gets about the pitch. Would still like to see him really grab a position by the neck. Flirting between a few still.


Totally different player, but similar situation to Luongo when he arrived. Knew what to do but not where.
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Shape/Personnel on 00:31 - Oct 25 with 704 viewsbosh67

Just a thought but we've lost two games at the death, Bristol City and now Peterborough chasing a winner and then getting done for pace on the counter attack.

Back in the day Glenn Roeder used to play CB and sweeper. He was very quick and played in a similar type of team, usually on the front foot. But what Roeder did so well in later stages of games is fall back into that sweeper role and if a team broke on us he either sorted the problem out with his positioning or pace, or he just took the player out.

I feel we need to think about this in the latter stages of games. We need a quicker CB, perhaps Barbet who actually is quicker than people think to perhaps sit right back in late stages and actually play sweeper. Or, alternatively we leave two back to hold the deep line to prevent the counter attack. As it stands we seem to over commit when attempting to see out a game. For me we need to adjust our shape at the end of games like this and essentially play sweepers if we push forward in these instances to snub out counter attacks that late in a game.

Never knowingly right.
Poll: How long before new signings become quivering wrecks of the players they were?

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Shape/Personnel on 08:21 - Oct 25 with 636 viewsMick_S

Shape/Personnel on 00:31 - Oct 25 by bosh67

Just a thought but we've lost two games at the death, Bristol City and now Peterborough chasing a winner and then getting done for pace on the counter attack.

Back in the day Glenn Roeder used to play CB and sweeper. He was very quick and played in a similar type of team, usually on the front foot. But what Roeder did so well in later stages of games is fall back into that sweeper role and if a team broke on us he either sorted the problem out with his positioning or pace, or he just took the player out.

I feel we need to think about this in the latter stages of games. We need a quicker CB, perhaps Barbet who actually is quicker than people think to perhaps sit right back in late stages and actually play sweeper. Or, alternatively we leave two back to hold the deep line to prevent the counter attack. As it stands we seem to over commit when attempting to see out a game. For me we need to adjust our shape at the end of games like this and essentially play sweepers if we push forward in these instances to snub out counter attacks that late in a game.


I’ve been wondering about playing a sweeper - using it to manage a lead sounds very sensible. It’ll just take a big name manager to do it and it’ll become trendy again.

Does any team play this way these days?

Did I ever mention that I was in Minder?

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