| The next Eze 13:42 - Apr 19 with 6041 views | Myke |
Due to a combination of serious injury and/or loss of form, the most likely candidates (Dieng/Willock/Chair/Dickie/Dykes ) don't seem ready for a big money move during the summer. This places us in a bit of a quandary Do we hold out for 'big' offer (as Swansea did with Patterson) that may not materialise? Do we accept reduced offers (assuming we get offers of course) which we know are below the player's potential value and build in significant sell-on clauses? Or do we hold onto them all and hope that their natural improvement and (hopefully) lack of injuries will compensate for having no extra money to spend this summer Finally, how much will these potential scenarios influence whether Warburton will be our manager next season or not? |  | | |  |
| The next Eze on 23:06 - Apr 19 with 1956 views | Myke |
| The next Eze on 22:14 - Apr 19 by benhurst |
When the Newcastle move was initially rumoured someone on here mentioned that our deal with Palace was 20% of whatever they sell him for rather than 20% of the profit. If that is the case, a great bit of business from us! |
Interesting that the next Eze could be... Eze | | | |
| The next Eze on 03:04 - Apr 20 with 1826 views | SydneyRs |
| The next Eze on 19:58 - Apr 19 by davman |
I'm not going to play the game of whether your valuations are anywhere near the truth as they are only going to be worth what someone wants to spend on them, but let's assumed that we will get 50% of what we get from each of them to replace them.
Willock - if he still has two years, hold out for £10m or he stays.
Dieng - I think that he is excellent, but we could pick up a decent replacement for around £2m or lower, so if we get £5m (unlikely), it'd be sell, sell, sell.
Chair - just get him signed up; we should aim to keep him forever...
Dykes - he had his best game for ages on Monday and we know how tough it would be to get a replacement in. Keep him this season and hope that Scotland qualifies for the World Cup and he gets a couple to put his valuation up. Even £4m isn't enough for me to sell him - I don't rate him, but he is our most effective no. 9 at the moment. Get someone in and when they can replace him, then think about cashing in. Unconvinced anyone would spend any more than £3m on him, but equally unconvinced we can replace him with a finished product any better for that sort of money.
Dickie - if De Wijs is coming back and we re-sign Barbet; we don't need Dickie, so £5m or more - sell, sell. Could pick up a decent CB for £2m I reckon... (Sanderson?)
Field - no need to sell, he is young and will get better and better if he can avoid having a yellow card per game. If he carries on next season, give him an improved contract. A great player, but unlikely to attract serious offers... |
On the subject of Dykes, I don't believe that our form slump coinciding with him being out of the team is a coincidence. While he's not a prolific scorer, he does provide energy and annoys/occupies oppo defenders and therefore creates chances for others.
A feature of that poor run was how toothless we were in attack in comparison to scoring in a long run of games before this. As we know, only one or two of those poor results going our way would change everything in terms of playoff hopes and we might well have got them if Dykes had been fit and playing. | | | |
| The next Eze on 07:29 - Apr 20 with 1765 views | distortR |
I think Seny is so important to us, if he had remained fit I believe we would be in the play offs (Albeit not nearly as good as Forest). It's not just the Marshall chuck-in's, his control of the penalty box is excellent, his very presence eases pressure.
If we sell him, we can get a good keeper sure, but I'm not convinced we can replace him. | | | |
| The next Eze on 10:02 - Apr 20 with 1674 views | terryb |
| The next Eze on 16:24 - Apr 19 by GaxZE |
Willock is effectively 2024, as we have an option to extend. https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/chris-willock-completes-qpr-switch/
That said, we're not getting eze money for him. He's not quite there yet. He and Dieng I feel are our most valuable assets. Dieng will only go if there is a space for him at ____ club.
My expected sale for each is the following:
Willock - 5-8m
Dieng - 4-6m
Chair - 3m-5m
Dykes 2m-4m (only a club like Burnley or possible Rangers/Celtic?)
Dickie - 5m
Field - 3m
I always ask myself who will buy the player and that normall dictates the value. For most of them, it's a new PL team or at best a lower end one. Eze could've been snapped up by a better team than palace, but they still paid the money. Newcastle won't be buying unproven PL players from the championship unless it's as a backup / potential. Teams like Watford, Norwich, Burnley might come in but again. Not sure I can see any of them paying the 8 digit sums we want for most of these. Dykes isn't good enough for PL and would only really get us a fee if either he has a blinder for Scotland or gets targetted by Rangers/Celtic. Dickie might go for more than I suggest, but it's dependant on who comes in. He doesn't have pace and any well scouted PL team will know this and probably not gamble. I think Field is actually only player who will this time next year be our biggest asset if he continues as he is. I actually see more of the top end champship spenders coming in for our players than actual PL ones. |
I know I'm in the minority, but I struggle to think that any club would offer £5 million for Dickie. I would have thought that his value to would be buyers is less now than last August & I can't envisage any Premier club being interested, parrtly due to his lack of pace.
On the other hand, Dunne might reach that valuation. | | | |
| The next Eze on 18:02 - Apr 20 with 1512 views | PinnerPaul |
| The next Eze on 19:42 - Apr 19 by nix |
Have you noticed that Willock, Dieng and Dickie are not actually playing at the moment?
Dykes missed a substantial part of the season in two long periods out.
We at one point had all four fullbacks out, two of them for long periods. We've had to use five goalies this season.
And Chair was also missing and then came back not match fit so has taken a while to come back to full effectiveness.
But, yeah, why aren't we doing better? |
Dieng would have had no effect on the complete change of style and lack of cutting edge,Willock played in quite a few of the very poor team performances and Dickie only relatively recently injured, so not really buying the 'injuries have killed us' narrative. | | | |
| The next Eze on 08:39 - Apr 21 with 1315 views | nix |
| The next Eze on 18:02 - Apr 20 by PinnerPaul |
Dieng would have had no effect on the complete change of style and lack of cutting edge,Willock played in quite a few of the very poor team performances and Dickie only relatively recently injured, so not really buying the 'injuries have killed us' narrative. |
Two errors in two games started the rot. If Marshall hadn't had a howler against Blackburn, we would have probably drawn that game. He then made another error against Cardiff where they equalised. That's two in two just after the Blackpool game when the players were heroic but out on their feet. Four points from those two games and we'd be in the play offs in any case. But it also demoralised the team and particularly the defence.
Willock did indeed play in some of the howlers but we were doing okay against Forest when he went off, hence the reason they were kicking him up in the air in the first place. I think overall we would have done better with him in the team, particularly against the better sides, like Sheffield Utd, Fulham and Forest second half.
Dykes when fit makes a difference to our play. He is much better than Gray in causing problems to the other team's defence and acting as a link person for the midfield. Hence getting an assist, and could have been two but for a close offside, against Derby. We've got 1.5 points when he plays and 1.38 when he doesn't. My contention was also that he takes a couple of games to get back to full effectiveness but even with those matches included, we've still done better with him than without him.
I don't think anyone could say that Chair was at his best coming back from AFCON, that's surely unarguable.
I don't think injuries are the ONLY reason we've had a bad run. I do think other factors played a part. I would also agree that Warbs didn't react well once we'd got into a bad spot. He didn't seem to be able to raise the team for whatever reason and made some big mistakes with selection and substitutions. But I thought the OP's contention that we should be doing better was unfair and unnecessarily snarky given the fact that the players he mentioned haven't all been actually playing, and those that have, Chair and Dykes, were not as effective for some of those games after coming back from long breaks due to injury (Dykes) and AFCON (Chair).
Of course, I can't prove it would have made a difference to have a fully fit Chair, Dykes, Dieng, Dickie and Willock in the team but I would be surprised if the opposition managers weren't pleased to see them missing. So I don't buy into your narrative that it's not overall killed us in terms of staying in the play off places. |  | | |
| The next Eze on 09:16 - Apr 21 with 1278 views | stantheman10 |
| The next Eze on 08:39 - Apr 21 by nix |
Two errors in two games started the rot. If Marshall hadn't had a howler against Blackburn, we would have probably drawn that game. He then made another error against Cardiff where they equalised. That's two in two just after the Blackpool game when the players were heroic but out on their feet. Four points from those two games and we'd be in the play offs in any case. But it also demoralised the team and particularly the defence.
Willock did indeed play in some of the howlers but we were doing okay against Forest when he went off, hence the reason they were kicking him up in the air in the first place. I think overall we would have done better with him in the team, particularly against the better sides, like Sheffield Utd, Fulham and Forest second half.
Dykes when fit makes a difference to our play. He is much better than Gray in causing problems to the other team's defence and acting as a link person for the midfield. Hence getting an assist, and could have been two but for a close offside, against Derby. We've got 1.5 points when he plays and 1.38 when he doesn't. My contention was also that he takes a couple of games to get back to full effectiveness but even with those matches included, we've still done better with him than without him.
I don't think anyone could say that Chair was at his best coming back from AFCON, that's surely unarguable.
I don't think injuries are the ONLY reason we've had a bad run. I do think other factors played a part. I would also agree that Warbs didn't react well once we'd got into a bad spot. He didn't seem to be able to raise the team for whatever reason and made some big mistakes with selection and substitutions. But I thought the OP's contention that we should be doing better was unfair and unnecessarily snarky given the fact that the players he mentioned haven't all been actually playing, and those that have, Chair and Dykes, were not as effective for some of those games after coming back from long breaks due to injury (Dykes) and AFCON (Chair).
Of course, I can't prove it would have made a difference to have a fully fit Chair, Dykes, Dieng, Dickie and Willock in the team but I would be surprised if the opposition managers weren't pleased to see them missing. So I don't buy into your narrative that it's not overall killed us in terms of staying in the play off places. |
The reason we won't be involved in the play offs is because we aren't good enough. As all the professionals always say the league positions don't lie. You're only as good as your squad and ours isn't strong enough to go up. | | | |
| The next Eze on 10:40 - Apr 21 with 1210 views | nix |
| The next Eze on 09:16 - Apr 21 by stantheman10 |
The reason we won't be involved in the play offs is because we aren't good enough. As all the professionals always say the league positions don't lie. You're only as good as your squad and ours isn't strong enough to go up. |
I agree that our second string is nowhere near as good as the big club's second strings and that's larger down to finances.
Injuries are largely down to luck and I don't think we've been lucky this season with injuries, particularly to Willock and Dieng. Would Leicester have won the Premiership if Vardy and Schmeichel had been injured at a crucial time in their season? Almost certainly not.
You don't agree, but it's just opinions. | | | |
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| The next Eze on 12:21 - Apr 21 with 1136 views | Myke |
| The next Eze on 08:39 - Apr 21 by nix |
Two errors in two games started the rot. If Marshall hadn't had a howler against Blackburn, we would have probably drawn that game. He then made another error against Cardiff where they equalised. That's two in two just after the Blackpool game when the players were heroic but out on their feet. Four points from those two games and we'd be in the play offs in any case. But it also demoralised the team and particularly the defence.
Willock did indeed play in some of the howlers but we were doing okay against Forest when he went off, hence the reason they were kicking him up in the air in the first place. I think overall we would have done better with him in the team, particularly against the better sides, like Sheffield Utd, Fulham and Forest second half.
Dykes when fit makes a difference to our play. He is much better than Gray in causing problems to the other team's defence and acting as a link person for the midfield. Hence getting an assist, and could have been two but for a close offside, against Derby. We've got 1.5 points when he plays and 1.38 when he doesn't. My contention was also that he takes a couple of games to get back to full effectiveness but even with those matches included, we've still done better with him than without him.
I don't think anyone could say that Chair was at his best coming back from AFCON, that's surely unarguable.
I don't think injuries are the ONLY reason we've had a bad run. I do think other factors played a part. I would also agree that Warbs didn't react well once we'd got into a bad spot. He didn't seem to be able to raise the team for whatever reason and made some big mistakes with selection and substitutions. But I thought the OP's contention that we should be doing better was unfair and unnecessarily snarky given the fact that the players he mentioned haven't all been actually playing, and those that have, Chair and Dykes, were not as effective for some of those games after coming back from long breaks due to injury (Dykes) and AFCON (Chair).
Of course, I can't prove it would have made a difference to have a fully fit Chair, Dykes, Dieng, Dickie and Willock in the team but I would be surprised if the opposition managers weren't pleased to see them missing. So I don't buy into your narrative that it's not overall killed us in terms of staying in the play off places. |
I would say 'howler' is somewhat of an exaggeration Nix and is up there with Chair being 'abysmal' after AFCON. For sure, Marshall, mis-judged the flight of the free kick against Blackburn and should have saved it, but he had made some important saves before that, and at that point of the game, with 10 or so left we would have settled happily for a point as we were offering little going forward. Against Forest, he made some excellent saves, but was let down badly by his defence for goals 2 and 3. Against Cardiff I agree, the equaliser was savable, but the real fault lay further up the pitch where we had simply allowed Cardiff back in the game instead of killing them off with a 2nd goal. Also, the reaction of the concession of these goals (and even more so v Peterboro) was just to give up,which was completely at odds with our earlier games at Middlesboro and Reading and at home to Preston and Barnsley for example, so probably unfair to say Marshall's errors 'started the rot'.
Just a general observation regarding Chair and Willock's form, it is also worth mentioning that for two games they were asked to play as strikers or 'false 9's' or whatever you want to call it, which clearly didn't suit either player, which can effect form. I think it is significant that Chair's return to form coincides with him playing out wide on the left. How that will work when Willock returns remains to be seen as it could get a bit congested | | | |
| The next Eze on 13:40 - Apr 21 with 1053 views | nix |
| The next Eze on 12:21 - Apr 21 by Myke |
I would say 'howler' is somewhat of an exaggeration Nix and is up there with Chair being 'abysmal' after AFCON. For sure, Marshall, mis-judged the flight of the free kick against Blackburn and should have saved it, but he had made some important saves before that, and at that point of the game, with 10 or so left we would have settled happily for a point as we were offering little going forward. Against Forest, he made some excellent saves, but was let down badly by his defence for goals 2 and 3. Against Cardiff I agree, the equaliser was savable, but the real fault lay further up the pitch where we had simply allowed Cardiff back in the game instead of killing them off with a 2nd goal. Also, the reaction of the concession of these goals (and even more so v Peterboro) was just to give up,which was completely at odds with our earlier games at Middlesboro and Reading and at home to Preston and Barnsley for example, so probably unfair to say Marshall's errors 'started the rot'.
Just a general observation regarding Chair and Willock's form, it is also worth mentioning that for two games they were asked to play as strikers or 'false 9's' or whatever you want to call it, which clearly didn't suit either player, which can effect form. I think it is significant that Chair's return to form coincides with him playing out wide on the left. How that will work when Willock returns remains to be seen as it could get a bit congested |
I'm not blaming Marshall, in the sense of calling him out, Myke. I wouldn't have started a thread about him. I'm not out to call out players unless they're not trying , which Marshall undoubtedly did. My point was about how we missed players and that it's unfair to imply that those players aren't all that, when they weren't even playing recently. I couldn't do that without mentioning specific examples, which I have done. I think Seny probably would have saved the Blackburn free kick. I said we'd have got a point, not that we'd go on to win. The importance of those two mistakes was that our players already looked out on their feet after Blackpool when we were cruising and the Sanderson sending off happened. We had to fight like hell to win that game, after all those other 'must win' games in January. That's why I think the two errors by Marshall had a disproportionate effect on morale. We get those four points and I don't think our poor run would have continued.
If people don't agree with me, that's absolutely fine, though.
I also agreed that Warbs made some errors too in my post, which also impacted the team. | | | |
| The next Eze on 16:54 - Apr 21 with 941 views | Myke |
| The next Eze on 13:40 - Apr 21 by nix |
I'm not blaming Marshall, in the sense of calling him out, Myke. I wouldn't have started a thread about him. I'm not out to call out players unless they're not trying , which Marshall undoubtedly did. My point was about how we missed players and that it's unfair to imply that those players aren't all that, when they weren't even playing recently. I couldn't do that without mentioning specific examples, which I have done. I think Seny probably would have saved the Blackburn free kick. I said we'd have got a point, not that we'd go on to win. The importance of those two mistakes was that our players already looked out on their feet after Blackpool when we were cruising and the Sanderson sending off happened. We had to fight like hell to win that game, after all those other 'must win' games in January. That's why I think the two errors by Marshall had a disproportionate effect on morale. We get those four points and I don't think our poor run would have continued.
If people don't agree with me, that's absolutely fine, though.
I also agreed that Warbs made some errors too in my post, which also impacted the team. |
Sorry Nix, never meant to suggest you were 'calling out' Marshall. Your views are always level-headed and measured. I think we are all still searching for an explanation for our capitulation. I think the last two results have given us a sniff of hope again, which has rekindled the post-mortem regarding our demise, because in our hearts we know it is out of reach, yet tantalisingly close. If we had drawn with Derby and where 5 points off SU, I think we would be more resigned, which is how I felt when we played Preston.
Similarly, Clive mentioned in one of his pieces (I can't remember which one, the man is so prolific) that if our decline had been more gradual over a longer period of time, it would have been easier to accept also, but the nature of our collapse from the heady heights of Reading to the basement scraping Peterboro (cup) hass staggered everyone and has us reaching for the conspiracy theories.
Probably the main lesson learned from February/March is that we are not nearly ready for the Prem yet, even with the riches that would allow us to buy (some) better players. If, IF we can keep the core of this squad together (and that includes the boss) I think we could have a serious tilt next year, notwithstanding Norwich/Watford and whoever. In the context of keeping Warburton rather than reviving our play-off hopes, the next three games are vital - exceed 68 points and/or 8th place and then surely at least a conversation has to take place? | | | |
| The next Eze on 17:08 - Apr 21 with 894 views | PinnerPaul |
| The next Eze on 08:39 - Apr 21 by nix |
Two errors in two games started the rot. If Marshall hadn't had a howler against Blackburn, we would have probably drawn that game. He then made another error against Cardiff where they equalised. That's two in two just after the Blackpool game when the players were heroic but out on their feet. Four points from those two games and we'd be in the play offs in any case. But it also demoralised the team and particularly the defence.
Willock did indeed play in some of the howlers but we were doing okay against Forest when he went off, hence the reason they were kicking him up in the air in the first place. I think overall we would have done better with him in the team, particularly against the better sides, like Sheffield Utd, Fulham and Forest second half.
Dykes when fit makes a difference to our play. He is much better than Gray in causing problems to the other team's defence and acting as a link person for the midfield. Hence getting an assist, and could have been two but for a close offside, against Derby. We've got 1.5 points when he plays and 1.38 when he doesn't. My contention was also that he takes a couple of games to get back to full effectiveness but even with those matches included, we've still done better with him than without him.
I don't think anyone could say that Chair was at his best coming back from AFCON, that's surely unarguable.
I don't think injuries are the ONLY reason we've had a bad run. I do think other factors played a part. I would also agree that Warbs didn't react well once we'd got into a bad spot. He didn't seem to be able to raise the team for whatever reason and made some big mistakes with selection and substitutions. But I thought the OP's contention that we should be doing better was unfair and unnecessarily snarky given the fact that the players he mentioned haven't all been actually playing, and those that have, Chair and Dykes, were not as effective for some of those games after coming back from long breaks due to injury (Dykes) and AFCON (Chair).
Of course, I can't prove it would have made a difference to have a fully fit Chair, Dykes, Dieng, Dickie and Willock in the team but I would be surprised if the opposition managers weren't pleased to see them missing. So I don't buy into your narrative that it's not overall killed us in terms of staying in the play off places. |
Fair enough Nix, well argued.
Can't accept the Dickie one especially though, I thought everyone admitted he's form has been on a downward spiral pretty much in line with the team/squad and as he is the most recent injury, can't see how you include him, but its all opinions in the end.
Agree you can't put the 'collapse' down to just factor/player though - so we agree there! | | | |
| The next Eze on 17:52 - Apr 21 with 859 views | nix |
| The next Eze on 17:08 - Apr 21 by PinnerPaul |
Fair enough Nix, well argued.
Can't accept the Dickie one especially though, I thought everyone admitted he's form has been on a downward spiral pretty much in line with the team/squad and as he is the most recent injury, can't see how you include him, but its all opinions in the end.
Agree you can't put the 'collapse' down to just factor/player though - so we agree there! |
Yes it's strange Dickie's fall off from the first half of the season. Even he's admitted he hasn't been firing at his best.
And we do agree about it being a number of factors! | | | |
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