By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Warbs from West London Sport on 06:53 - May 6 by Hoopsie
The way i see it, even with the academy or u23 or B team, this is not the place to start looking for a replacement if first team players were unavailable (eg international commitment, injuries etc).
Look at our unprecedented goalkeeper crisis. Our first option is to look elsewhere when all first team keepers became unavailable. We brought in two 37+ yo experienced goalkeeper albeit not being playing regularly, before, under no other choice, put Murphy Mahoney between the sticks (for 2 games).
And, unmistakably, the boy got some positive reviews, here in this forum
But it takes so many obstacles before an academy player can have a chance to prove his worth.
And talking about sport science and recovery etc etc by Warburton, as well documented in official site, forum and podcasts, why is an "injured" Johanssen even playing when he supposedly carrying an injury since Nov last year. Makes no sense.
The academy is our strategy moving forward, and in building the new training ground HQ at Heston is anything to go by, it is a statement of intent.
Whether we have faith in producing quality players through the Academy or not, this is our roadmap in self-sustainability. I don't think we should only see this as getting 8-12 years old from around the local catchment area hoping they turn good, but also getting cast offs (like Eze) from other clubs into our academy and polish them into future stars.
I think the point is, sustainably there is no other option then looking to the youth system, whether it be our kids or others we have snaffled from elsewhere. And that's from now. Some have questioned the financial efficiency of the academy system, but money spent on training facilities, youth development etc is exempt from ffp so in that sense does not fall into the ffp balance sheet and, if the owners are willing to keep losing money is 'ok'.
2
Warbs from West London Sport on 09:17 - May 6 with 2078 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 04:27 - May 6 by nadera78
The article in the op says that a large part of the finance for the academy comes from central funding, eg governing bodies, so the cost to the club itself is much reduced.
Some people on here speaking about academy players as if they'd be asked to play every week, which is not what's being suggested. What we're really saying is that, for example, Bettache be used to fill in occasionally instead of signing Hendrick. The odd substitute appearance here and there really isn't too much to ask of a manager.
If you’re bobbing around mid table with nothing to play for and no chance of relegation, then fine, give the kids some game time. But we were in the mix with a genuine chance of the play offs and a remit for the manager to get us there or else. He gambled big by bringing Hendrick and Sanderson in, particularly when Ball and Dozzell were available and DeWijs was seemingly doing well on loan. He gambled and lost. That, for me, was his undoing.
Buy cheap and sell big is our only way forward. We might occasionally get a promising academy player, but it will be a rarity and should in no way be relied upon to provide cover for the first team.
With nothing left to play for tomorrow, other than some professional pride, why not give a few of them a run out. What’s the worst that can happen!?
1
Warbs from West London Sport on 12:19 - May 6 with 1917 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 00:09 - May 6 by Hunterhoop
Because, put simply, he/anyone cannot rebuild or simply build the first team without the academy. We do not have the budget to build a first team squad which does not include the best of the academy (regardless of how good/bad they are).
There is no the money.
That is not Les’ fault.
This year’s expenditure, last year’s expenditure is not sustainable without an Eze sale every 2 years.
So we have to use academy players to survive as a club.
That doesn’t mean we only use academy players, just some rather than more signings or loans. Any manager will have a tough job finding a balance that gets results but doesn’t cause us to go bust or get relegated. But that is the job, whether we (or Warburton) like it.
Rebuilding the first team, achieving sustainable improvement in 1st team performance, etc, goes hand in hand with the academy for a club of our annual income (c.£15-20m). I don’t get how people cannot understand this.
It is not a strategic choice. It’s a necessity for survival.
I am not sure anyone posted or believes we have money, or if we don't, its Les's fault or that our current expenditure is sustainable.
We all recognise the importance of the Academy, more so as a finishing school / transition year for the likes of Eze and Chair than in a prep / middle / high school model that will source the next Raheem Sterling or Harvey Elliot that we will lose with minimal recompense to our competitors.
Given the above, as someone else posted, the key to a successful 'finishing school' model academy is a an extensive and resourceful scouting network.
I for one, do not know who is accountable for over-seeing scouting at our club. The Banfield / Willock and Eze doing the milk-round finds does not give me confidence that we have a scouting network that can underpin a sustainable finishing school type Academy, finding 1 or 2 of the next Jordan Zemura, Djed Spence or Isaiah Jones per year from the lower leagues or non-league.
We all want to move away from loan signings but when the Macauley Bonne type moves don't work, we unfortunately are forced into a short-term Hughill/ Wells/ Austin / Gray fix, with mixed results.
I thought Warburton got the balance right in terms of bringing the younger players through at the right time (Eze, Willock, Dunne) but this years loans were his undoing as when Dykes and Willock were injured, playing Austin and Gray as a 2 was a non-starter, which was'nt the case with Hughill and Wells.
I would have had more confidence in Warburton developing our Academy / Scouting Network / and A Sustainable Championship Football Club than anyone else who immediately comes to mind.
If that task now falls to Ferdinand, we will soon see if he can do more that cut the wage bill and actually develop and grow the club from its current position, which must be his remit as our DoF.
0
Warbs from West London Sport on 12:50 - May 6 with 1844 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 12:36 - May 6 by ParkRoyalR
I am not sure anyone posted or believes we have money, or if we don't, its Les's fault or that our current expenditure is sustainable.
We all recognise the importance of the Academy, more so as a finishing school / transition year for the likes of Eze and Chair than in a prep / middle / high school model that will source the next Raheem Sterling or Harvey Elliot that we will lose with minimal recompense to our competitors.
Given the above, as someone else posted, the key to a successful 'finishing school' model academy is a an extensive and resourceful scouting network.
I for one, do not know who is accountable for over-seeing scouting at our club. The Banfield / Willock and Eze doing the milk-round finds does not give me confidence that we have a scouting network that can underpin a sustainable finishing school type Academy, finding 1 or 2 of the next Jordan Zemura, Djed Spence or Isaiah Jones per year from the lower leagues or non-league.
We all want to move away from loan signings but when the Macauley Bonne type moves don't work, we unfortunately are forced into a short-term Hughill/ Wells/ Austin / Gray fix, with mixed results.
I thought Warburton got the balance right in terms of bringing the younger players through at the right time (Eze, Willock, Dunne) but this years loans were his undoing as when Dykes and Willock were injured, playing Austin and Gray as a 2 was a non-starter, which was'nt the case with Hughill and Wells.
I would have had more confidence in Warburton developing our Academy / Scouting Network / and A Sustainable Championship Football Club than anyone else who immediately comes to mind.
If that task now falls to Ferdinand, we will soon see if he can do more that cut the wage bill and actually develop and grow the club from its current position, which must be his remit as our DoF.
The task doesn’t now fall to Les. It always has been. And he’s been successful at it for the last 6 years. We’ve cut the wage bill from £70m pa to £17m pa whilst treading water/arguably getting more competitive on the pitch! And during that time we’ve brought through a lot of young players.
Ramsey is specifically responsible for the academy in total. There are a selection of coaches beneath managing component parts
Belk is responsible for player recruitment/scouting now this is heavily data led. However final decision on who to sign is by committee (Ferdinand, the manager, Belk, Hoos).
The whole model needs a manager who is willing to embrace the academy (given our finances) and decide signings by committee, because we must avoid the days of Hughes and Redknapp where managers absolutely screwed us.
It sounds from Dave M’s report and from other things I’ve heard that Warburton didn’t embrace the academy, wanted his own way, actually got it for the last 12 months, but then failed against a target he agreed to. No surprise he’s not has his contract reviewed.
Giving Warburton more power, would, in my opinion, have been wholly the wrong this to do, because the year he has had his way the most is the year we have failed the most.
4
Warbs from West London Sport on 13:00 - May 6 with 1815 views
The Academy must cost a bit to run - not sure the return has been there as the academy has only produced Darnell Furlong in a very long time. Under 18's and Under 23's bottom of the league (again).
The other younger players that have done well we have bought or brought in from other clubs.
In my opinion we need to significantly improve our scouting and recruiting. Focus needs to be on the First team and a second team whether that is a B team or Under 23's I'm not sure.
The academy is not there just to produce players from 8yrs into first teamers, it’s also there to attract cast offs (like Eze) to join us and to help them develop from 16 yrs old to the first team. But it also adds value to lower league players who can develop in the U23s and B team if the academy is set up well.
People point to a lack of players who have made the first team having been with is since they were kids. But look at the number of players who have played u18s and u23s who have made the first team. It is loads: Lumley, Dieng, Manning, Kakay, Furlong, Masterson, Gubbins, Owens, Bettache, Duke McKenna, Shodipo, Eze, Chair… all of them were part of the academy at some point. They weren’t signed as 16 or 18 year olds as the finished article thrust into the first team squad.
The academy includes players we develop from start to finish along with those we recruit in in their teens, to progress into the first team. Armstrong is an obvious next contender.
We do not have the money to pay for players ready for first team football. We simply don’t no matter how good our scouting is.
So out scouting focuses on finding these teenagers the academy can polish up.
So the manager MUST be willing to engage with the academy.
This is the reality of the club we are. Our income dictates it.
4
Warbs from West London Sport on 13:41 - May 6 with 1714 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 12:50 - May 6 by Hunterhoop
The task doesn’t now fall to Les. It always has been. And he’s been successful at it for the last 6 years. We’ve cut the wage bill from £70m pa to £17m pa whilst treading water/arguably getting more competitive on the pitch! And during that time we’ve brought through a lot of young players.
Ramsey is specifically responsible for the academy in total. There are a selection of coaches beneath managing component parts
Belk is responsible for player recruitment/scouting now this is heavily data led. However final decision on who to sign is by committee (Ferdinand, the manager, Belk, Hoos).
The whole model needs a manager who is willing to embrace the academy (given our finances) and decide signings by committee, because we must avoid the days of Hughes and Redknapp where managers absolutely screwed us.
It sounds from Dave M’s report and from other things I’ve heard that Warburton didn’t embrace the academy, wanted his own way, actually got it for the last 12 months, but then failed against a target he agreed to. No surprise he’s not has his contract reviewed.
Giving Warburton more power, would, in my opinion, have been wholly the wrong this to do, because the year he has had his way the most is the year we have failed the most.
I really don't think Warburton had it his own way all during his tenure and we are a million miles away from the Hughes, Redknap era and even way past the McClaren era. Apart from a couple of loans that went wrong( although looked fine to most of us at the time) did Warburton really do much wrong in terms of working within the clubs protocol to warrant this treatment to end his tenure? As already mentioned on here, Warburton is probably the best candidate for the new managers job and we've just got rid. Maybe Les Ferdinand can take on the role? And all this talk of having no money is not quite true is it. We have a budget, albeit not as big as some clubs in this league but when Tony Fernandes has pushed through the Austin signing this probably sends out the wrong message but also shows we have got some wriggle room on budgets. It's all done and dusted now and I really hope the club know what they're doing.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
1
Warbs from West London Sport on 14:05 - May 6 with 1652 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 13:00 - May 6 by Hunterhoop
The academy is not there just to produce players from 8yrs into first teamers, it’s also there to attract cast offs (like Eze) to join us and to help them develop from 16 yrs old to the first team. But it also adds value to lower league players who can develop in the U23s and B team if the academy is set up well.
People point to a lack of players who have made the first team having been with is since they were kids. But look at the number of players who have played u18s and u23s who have made the first team. It is loads: Lumley, Dieng, Manning, Kakay, Furlong, Masterson, Gubbins, Owens, Bettache, Duke McKenna, Shodipo, Eze, Chair… all of them were part of the academy at some point. They weren’t signed as 16 or 18 year olds as the finished article thrust into the first team squad.
The academy includes players we develop from start to finish along with those we recruit in in their teens, to progress into the first team. Armstrong is an obvious next contender.
We do not have the money to pay for players ready for first team football. We simply don’t no matter how good our scouting is.
So out scouting focuses on finding these teenagers the academy can polish up.
So the manager MUST be willing to engage with the academy.
This is the reality of the club we are. Our income dictates it.
Great posting of late, Hunter.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Warbs from West London Sport on 13:41 - May 6 by PunteR
I really don't think Warburton had it his own way all during his tenure and we are a million miles away from the Hughes, Redknap era and even way past the McClaren era. Apart from a couple of loans that went wrong( although looked fine to most of us at the time) did Warburton really do much wrong in terms of working within the clubs protocol to warrant this treatment to end his tenure? As already mentioned on here, Warburton is probably the best candidate for the new managers job and we've just got rid. Maybe Les Ferdinand can take on the role? And all this talk of having no money is not quite true is it. We have a budget, albeit not as big as some clubs in this league but when Tony Fernandes has pushed through the Austin signing this probably sends out the wrong message but also shows we have got some wriggle room on budgets. It's all done and dusted now and I really hope the club know what they're doing.
I'd agree that he was miles away from any of those other managers and like many others, I would have stuck with MW based on what I can see on the surface.
I do think that he got his own way quite often though, right at the beginning he brought in Ball, Wallace and Kelly who he had previously managed. He's also bought in players like Barbet and Moses who he's managed before and Hendricks in Jan. Not that there's an issue with him getting what he wants to strengthen the squad but he can't say he wasn't backed.
0
Warbs from West London Sport on 22:01 - May 6 with 1213 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 21:36 - May 6 by QPR_Jim
I'd agree that he was miles away from any of those other managers and like many others, I would have stuck with MW based on what I can see on the surface.
I do think that he got his own way quite often though, right at the beginning he brought in Ball, Wallace and Kelly who he had previously managed. He's also bought in players like Barbet and Moses who he's managed before and Hendricks in Jan. Not that there's an issue with him getting what he wants to strengthen the squad but he can't say he wasn't backed.
But in his defence the wage bill was slashed once again with loads of players out so had to get players in pretty quickly , I'm assuming on lower wages. That first season took us all by surprise due to the turnaround and the improvement in playing style.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
1
Warbs from West London Sport on 22:24 - May 6 with 1145 views
Warbs from West London Sport on 22:01 - May 6 by PunteR
But in his defence the wage bill was slashed once again with loads of players out so had to get players in pretty quickly , I'm assuming on lower wages. That first season took us all by surprise due to the turnaround and the improvement in playing style.
Yeah I think he did well with them and the players suited our budget. I just think it's evidence that he had the final say on signings throughout.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
