| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:30 - May 3 with 3854 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:25 - May 3 by robith |
it's more had he been on a longer deal (a product of a year of stalling under McClaren see also Bright) we'd have gotten more for him, rather than his absolute value ceiling being enormous |
more than nothing you mean - whhoopeeeee!
I'm done now but if some want to perpetuate the myth that Manning is something more than an average Championship player then carry on. |  | |  |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:36 - May 3 with 3825 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:27 - May 3 by daveB |
Kakay was mentioned as well not sure anyone is suggesting he is worth millions either. |
Kakay is a different argument altogether - simply a player the manager didn't like as much as others, as I said above, that IS football management, hardly a story or reason to sack a manager!
IF and that comes with neon lights and bells, the article comes with a grain of truth, then ANY manager is going to 'fail'
ALL managers will pick their best team - in THEIR opinion, introducing some sort of internal 'quota' based on age or the fact they have been with us since their U10 days is doomed to failure. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:55 - May 3 with 3696 views | paulparker |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:30 - May 3 by PinnerPaul |
more than nothing you mean - whhoopeeeee!
I'm done now but if some want to perpetuate the myth that Manning is something more than an average Championship player then carry on. |
The same Ryan Manning who in his first season playing at left back was comfortably one of the best players in the league and who is also an international
Yeah he was proper average well done the board for getting £100k |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:55 - May 3 with 3702 views | ngbqpr |
Remember after some dismal defeat or other in that horrible spell mid 20-21 season when the Sky cameras lingered on Ferdinand and Hoos chatting / on their phones in the directors' box, and we all assumed Warbs was done for?
It was then the change to 352 from a man we were told had "no plan B" + loan signings who, Field aside, arguably didn't fit the blueprint that caused the turn around and the 'calendar year purple patch'.
Ironic on so many levels...eg...Warbs then arguably became entrenched in Plan B / 352, and wanted to morph a squad bought & balanced for 4231 into one based on his new pet system...a board member drives the signing of a veteran, and then it seems MW's favouring 'veterans' has cost him...with 2 x CBs, Barbet seemed a liability and Dickie seemed too slow to go up a level, now no one wants Barbet to go but Dickie, after initially shining in the back 3, has dropped off again.
Dave Mc's real scoop / skill here is to highlight how it was all so fragile on the inside, but that purple patch glued it together for a year we all loved so much. |  |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 16:10 - May 3 with 3560 views | NewBee |
I started reading the article with a "Two sides to every story" approach, but as I went on, this became progressively harder, until I reached the clincher:
"Warburton also felt inexperience cost Brentford when they lost in the play-offs under him."
That may well be the case, but what MW fails to mention is that he - and he alone - was responsible for the lack of experience. To recap, BFC had come up from League One the season before (2013/14) in some style under MW, in what had been his first season as a manager.
But while they made a very impressive start in the Championship (3rd at Xmas), owner Matthew Benham's analysis suggested that the team needed reinforcing in January if they were to maintain what had been by then 18 months of continuous ascent. He offered MW money to buy new players in January, a window when the club ordinarily sells, not buys.
MW declined*, as was his right under his manager's contract, on the basis that he didn't want to disrupt the harmony in the dressing room by bringing in new bods who would challenge for a place in the starting XI. But in the end Benham was right and the team ran out of legs, eventually only stumbling into the play-offs, where they crashed out, beaten H and A by Boro in the semi's.
But that's not all. When MW declined MB's offer, the latter decided that come the end of the season, he would change the Manager's role to one of Head Coach. Amongst other things, this would mean that while the Head Coach would have a say in future signings, it would not be the final say, as Managers, incl MW, previously had had.
In the end, MW decided he didn't want to work under these new circumstances, so it was agreed that he would see out the season, then leave in May.
Fair enough, you might think, except that in the intervening period, a whole stream of articles from an unnamed, but inside BFC "source" started appearing in WLS (not David Mc btw), basically badmouthing the hierarchy at BFC. Curiously enough,, MW was never criticised. And it is known that relations quickly turned sour within the club, with MW allegedly even banning Benham from the training ground and dressing room!
Now getting back to my "two sides" point, you may think that I'm only giving one, but think on this. Whenever a senior person has left BFC - Rosler, Carsley, Smith, Ankerson etc - it has usually been with the club's best wishes and the promise of a warm welcome whenever they come back to visit.
But I say "usually" rather than "always", since the one exception is a certain Mark Warburton.
Meanwhile, in checking something for this post, I came across an interesting item on one of Warburton's Rangers players:
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dean-shiels-lifts-lid
Note the contrast in the behaviour of Mark "Jack Bauer" Warburton and that of Davie Weir, who at least had the good grace to be embarrassed.
Along with some other stories I've heard, if I had a choice of dealing with either Ferdinand or Warburton, with Sir Les a handshake would do me fine, whereas with Warburton I'd want it in writing, with witnesses and a lawyer present.
* - Brentford did bring in four youngsters that January, none of them ready for the first XI, namely:
1. Lewis McLeod from Rangers (career eventually wrecked by injury);
2. Jack O'Connell from Blackburn (has gone on to enjoy success at Sheff U);
3. Josh Laurent from QPR (never made it at BFC but now doing ok at Reading)
And No.4? An unattached 20 y.o called Jack Warburton, last heard of playing in a pub league in Canada. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 16:42 - May 3 with 3392 views | QPROslo |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 10:45 - May 3 by paulparker |
Absolutely this
If Les thinks Nico and kaykay are championship full backs then we are completely fooked |
I'd say Kakay perhaps is or will be, but Nico probably isn't. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 16:49 - May 3 with 3327 views | TheChef |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 16:10 - May 3 by NewBee |
I started reading the article with a "Two sides to every story" approach, but as I went on, this became progressively harder, until I reached the clincher:
"Warburton also felt inexperience cost Brentford when they lost in the play-offs under him."
That may well be the case, but what MW fails to mention is that he - and he alone - was responsible for the lack of experience. To recap, BFC had come up from League One the season before (2013/14) in some style under MW, in what had been his first season as a manager.
But while they made a very impressive start in the Championship (3rd at Xmas), owner Matthew Benham's analysis suggested that the team needed reinforcing in January if they were to maintain what had been by then 18 months of continuous ascent. He offered MW money to buy new players in January, a window when the club ordinarily sells, not buys.
MW declined*, as was his right under his manager's contract, on the basis that he didn't want to disrupt the harmony in the dressing room by bringing in new bods who would challenge for a place in the starting XI. But in the end Benham was right and the team ran out of legs, eventually only stumbling into the play-offs, where they crashed out, beaten H and A by Boro in the semi's.
But that's not all. When MW declined MB's offer, the latter decided that come the end of the season, he would change the Manager's role to one of Head Coach. Amongst other things, this would mean that while the Head Coach would have a say in future signings, it would not be the final say, as Managers, incl MW, previously had had.
In the end, MW decided he didn't want to work under these new circumstances, so it was agreed that he would see out the season, then leave in May.
Fair enough, you might think, except that in the intervening period, a whole stream of articles from an unnamed, but inside BFC "source" started appearing in WLS (not David Mc btw), basically badmouthing the hierarchy at BFC. Curiously enough,, MW was never criticised. And it is known that relations quickly turned sour within the club, with MW allegedly even banning Benham from the training ground and dressing room!
Now getting back to my "two sides" point, you may think that I'm only giving one, but think on this. Whenever a senior person has left BFC - Rosler, Carsley, Smith, Ankerson etc - it has usually been with the club's best wishes and the promise of a warm welcome whenever they come back to visit.
But I say "usually" rather than "always", since the one exception is a certain Mark Warburton.
Meanwhile, in checking something for this post, I came across an interesting item on one of Warburton's Rangers players:
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dean-shiels-lifts-lid
Note the contrast in the behaviour of Mark "Jack Bauer" Warburton and that of Davie Weir, who at least had the good grace to be embarrassed.
Along with some other stories I've heard, if I had a choice of dealing with either Ferdinand or Warburton, with Sir Les a handshake would do me fine, whereas with Warburton I'd want it in writing, with witnesses and a lawyer present.
* - Brentford did bring in four youngsters that January, none of them ready for the first XI, namely:
1. Lewis McLeod from Rangers (career eventually wrecked by injury);
2. Jack O'Connell from Blackburn (has gone on to enjoy success at Sheff U);
3. Josh Laurent from QPR (never made it at BFC but now doing ok at Reading)
And No.4? An unattached 20 y.o called Jack Warburton, last heard of playing in a pub league in Canada. |
Jack Warburton could have been the answer to all our problems. Typical! |  |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:17 - May 3 with 3201 views | eastside_r |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 14:21 - May 3 by ed_83 |
Agree with this, it’s a complicated situation with no immediate right or wrong answers (apart from not even starting discussions on Barbet’s contract, which should have been done months ago). For me, the biggest issue here is not which side is right, but how this turned into an argument at all.
I can understand Les’ perspective (or at least the one attributed to him in the article) but the whole point of having a DOF is to resolve disputes around stuff like communication between first-team and youth coaches, consistency in formation and playing style through different age groups, and recruitment policy.
There’s always going to be differences of opinion, but surely it’s Les’ job to talk through those with everyone, agree compromises, find a way forward which works best for the club as a whole, and keep everyone as happy as possible (or at least communicating productively). Instead, it feels like he’s picked a side, given Warburton the cold shoulder and waited for public opinion to turn. Even if he and Ramsey are right about the youth team, that’s a really poor way to run the club.
I guess we don’t see what happens behind closed doors, or how many specific details WLS have got right, but if the article’s central theme of unresolved conflict and non-communication are even vaguely correct then that’s a massive red flag for me about Les’ position, regardless of the other positive progress we’ve made since he came in. |
You make a good point that as DoF, that the buck kind of stops with Les on the player / playing side and all the communication that goes with that.
However, as I have posted before MW does have form with how he has left previous roles at BFC, GR and NF. None of those departures were traditional ‘sackings’ and all (as I recall) had some element of behind the scenes bust-ups.
DaveMc’s article comes with caveats (see DOF thread) but I think he has exposed some home truths, but no-one at the club comes out of the last week looking particularly good. As others have said the Barbet situation is baffling. |  | | |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:23 - May 3 with 3163 views | stevec |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 12:41 - May 3 by daveB |
I don't get the jobs for the boys bit to be honest, have heard it before but never really understood it, who are you talking about? |
Dave, what I’m saying is the employees pulling the strings are all too matey, it’s hardly surprising the encumbent manager finds he’s Billy no mates if he has the temerity to tell them the academy system ain’t working.
And can you imagine the dressing room when senior players are left wondering whether they’ll get a new contract when Kakays sitting in the stands and Niko is sunning himself somewhere around the world, both on 4 year contracts, all because they came through the academy system.
It feels like the tails wagging the dog. |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:35 - May 3 with 3092 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:55 - May 3 by paulparker |
The same Ryan Manning who in his first season playing at left back was comfortably one of the best players in the league and who is also an international
Yeah he was proper average well done the board for getting £100k |
A good championship player; granted. One of the best players in the league; not in a month of Sundays. At left back he was ok going forward but defensively he was a weak link aerially and was mercilessly targeted by opposition managers.
That being all said, he deserved better than the treatment he received from the board. |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:54 - May 3 with 3034 views | daveB |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:23 - May 3 by stevec |
Dave, what I’m saying is the employees pulling the strings are all too matey, it’s hardly surprising the encumbent manager finds he’s Billy no mates if he has the temerity to tell them the academy system ain’t working.
And can you imagine the dressing room when senior players are left wondering whether they’ll get a new contract when Kakays sitting in the stands and Niko is sunning himself somewhere around the world, both on 4 year contracts, all because they came through the academy system.
It feels like the tails wagging the dog. |
wouldn't that always be the case though that people pulling the strings get on with each other. Every manager who gets a job tends to bring his own staff with him which is pretty much the same thing |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:10 - May 3 with 2954 views | terryb |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 13:13 - May 3 by Northernr |
Well I've already mentioned a few of them in reports but Manning at MK, Robinson and Oxford and Moore at Sheff Wed are the three names I've heard from a few people, but all would require a compensation payment atm (which is an issue, because, like I say, FFP) and two of them are involved in the play-offs. Moore has been linked before, they obviously like his style of play because they kept loaning goalkeepers to him at Doncaster.
Dave Mc also said the Newport guy was a candidate last week, hence he came down in the odds. |
Cheers Clive, I wondered if it included McKenna of Ipswich. They have improved significantly under his leadership & he his bringing through players from the youth team. Admittingly, they had reached the final of the FA Youth Cup, which we can only dream of. I would imagine he would cost more than Manning, Robinson & the Newport manager.
If we are not prepared to pay adequate compensation though, we will always be limited to selecting from internal or managers that are currently unemployed. I'm not sure that is appealing! | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:13 - May 3 with 2944 views | QPR_Jim |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:23 - May 3 by stevec |
Dave, what I’m saying is the employees pulling the strings are all too matey, it’s hardly surprising the encumbent manager finds he’s Billy no mates if he has the temerity to tell them the academy system ain’t working.
And can you imagine the dressing room when senior players are left wondering whether they’ll get a new contract when Kakays sitting in the stands and Niko is sunning himself somewhere around the world, both on 4 year contracts, all because they came through the academy system.
It feels like the tails wagging the dog. |
I'm not sure any of the senior pros are jealous of their contracts. I'm sure if they really wanted to they could get a 4 year on similar terms. |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:20 - May 3 with 2879 views | QPR_Jim |
I never got this distinction that those brought in from other clubs are somehow different from those who come all the way through. A lot of the players, if not all that come to us later are rejected by other clubs and come to is as not being good enough for the first team and developed from there. So surely the academy still deserves credit for improving them even if they join when they're 18 rather than 12. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:30 - May 3 with 2819 views | Northernr |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:10 - May 3 by terryb |
Cheers Clive, I wondered if it included McKenna of Ipswich. They have improved significantly under his leadership & he his bringing through players from the youth team. Admittingly, they had reached the final of the FA Youth Cup, which we can only dream of. I would imagine he would cost more than Manning, Robinson & the Newport manager.
If we are not prepared to pay adequate compensation though, we will always be limited to selecting from internal or managers that are currently unemployed. I'm not sure that is appealing! |
I saw him get linked somewhere else today but can't remember where... |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:40 - May 3 with 2751 views | Nushnool |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 15:55 - May 3 by paulparker |
The same Ryan Manning who in his first season playing at left back was comfortably one of the best players in the league and who is also an international
Yeah he was proper average well done the board for getting £100k |
Pretty much a complete aside to this thread, but I think Manning would have been perfect at left back in Warburton’s 352; he would have been fitter than Wallace, chance-creating at one end, and would have been less defensively found out (than when he was in a defensive 4) thanks to the 3 centre backs. |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:40 - May 3 with 2751 views | ted_hendrix |
I've never felt so positive about the new season starting. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 20:03 - May 3 with 2439 views | kensalriser |
I think I’m 60% with Warburton here, probably more if extra weighting is given to the Barbet situation. Above average player at this level who’s almost never injured, unless he wants a budget breaking deal it’s grossly incompetent he hasn’t been extended.
Feels like we’ve really shot ourselves in the foot once again, all because adults can’t get in a room to solve difference and agree on a united way forward. |  |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 20:14 - May 3 with 2379 views | larsricchi |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 20:03 - May 3 by kensalriser |
I think I’m 60% with Warburton here, probably more if extra weighting is given to the Barbet situation. Above average player at this level who’s almost never injured, unless he wants a budget breaking deal it’s grossly incompetent he hasn’t been extended.
Feels like we’ve really shot ourselves in the foot once again, all because adults can’t get in a room to solve difference and agree on a united way forward. |
I'm not thrilled with how the board conducted itself in handling the Warburton transition. But whatever lingering resentment I feel toward the board can be tied to the Barbet situation.
Bring him back yesterday. And then I'll patiently await whatever lies ahead. |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 20:24 - May 3 with 2302 views | Boston |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 16:10 - May 3 by NewBee |
I started reading the article with a "Two sides to every story" approach, but as I went on, this became progressively harder, until I reached the clincher:
"Warburton also felt inexperience cost Brentford when they lost in the play-offs under him."
That may well be the case, but what MW fails to mention is that he - and he alone - was responsible for the lack of experience. To recap, BFC had come up from League One the season before (2013/14) in some style under MW, in what had been his first season as a manager.
But while they made a very impressive start in the Championship (3rd at Xmas), owner Matthew Benham's analysis suggested that the team needed reinforcing in January if they were to maintain what had been by then 18 months of continuous ascent. He offered MW money to buy new players in January, a window when the club ordinarily sells, not buys.
MW declined*, as was his right under his manager's contract, on the basis that he didn't want to disrupt the harmony in the dressing room by bringing in new bods who would challenge for a place in the starting XI. But in the end Benham was right and the team ran out of legs, eventually only stumbling into the play-offs, where they crashed out, beaten H and A by Boro in the semi's.
But that's not all. When MW declined MB's offer, the latter decided that come the end of the season, he would change the Manager's role to one of Head Coach. Amongst other things, this would mean that while the Head Coach would have a say in future signings, it would not be the final say, as Managers, incl MW, previously had had.
In the end, MW decided he didn't want to work under these new circumstances, so it was agreed that he would see out the season, then leave in May.
Fair enough, you might think, except that in the intervening period, a whole stream of articles from an unnamed, but inside BFC "source" started appearing in WLS (not David Mc btw), basically badmouthing the hierarchy at BFC. Curiously enough,, MW was never criticised. And it is known that relations quickly turned sour within the club, with MW allegedly even banning Benham from the training ground and dressing room!
Now getting back to my "two sides" point, you may think that I'm only giving one, but think on this. Whenever a senior person has left BFC - Rosler, Carsley, Smith, Ankerson etc - it has usually been with the club's best wishes and the promise of a warm welcome whenever they come back to visit.
But I say "usually" rather than "always", since the one exception is a certain Mark Warburton.
Meanwhile, in checking something for this post, I came across an interesting item on one of Warburton's Rangers players:
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dean-shiels-lifts-lid
Note the contrast in the behaviour of Mark "Jack Bauer" Warburton and that of Davie Weir, who at least had the good grace to be embarrassed.
Along with some other stories I've heard, if I had a choice of dealing with either Ferdinand or Warburton, with Sir Les a handshake would do me fine, whereas with Warburton I'd want it in writing, with witnesses and a lawyer present.
* - Brentford did bring in four youngsters that January, none of them ready for the first XI, namely:
1. Lewis McLeod from Rangers (career eventually wrecked by injury);
2. Jack O'Connell from Blackburn (has gone on to enjoy success at Sheff U);
3. Josh Laurent from QPR (never made it at BFC but now doing ok at Reading)
And No.4? An unattached 20 y.o called Jack Warburton, last heard of playing in a pub league in Canada. |
Good read, ta. | |
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| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:04 - May 3 with 2131 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 20:24 - May 3 by Boston |
Good read, ta. |
Maybe a good yarn if labelled as fiction having trawling as many negative opinions as possible to find on MW since he came into management.
Never understand why Brentford still obsess about MW given the success he brought them, maybe having a genuinely rivalry with another club (Reading would be an ideal fit) would help them move on from MW and that other momentus moment in their history, a reverse charge phone call to Jim Gregory by their Chairman. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:16 - May 3 with 2053 views | GloryHunter |
Wow. Fantastic insightful article by Dave Mc, which explains a lot, augmented by some excellent observations from posters on this thread. All day I have been on the verge of expressing an opinion, but I now realise I don't have any  |  | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:21 - May 3 with 2011 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 17:23 - May 3 by stevec |
Dave, what I’m saying is the employees pulling the strings are all too matey, it’s hardly surprising the encumbent manager finds he’s Billy no mates if he has the temerity to tell them the academy system ain’t working.
And can you imagine the dressing room when senior players are left wondering whether they’ll get a new contract when Kakays sitting in the stands and Niko is sunning himself somewhere around the world, both on 4 year contracts, all because they came through the academy system.
It feels like the tails wagging the dog. |
Great post, I'm a big Warburton fan, as I am Chris Ramsey, no knowledge of Paul Hall, but given the investment in the new training ground, these guys are soon going to be under significant pressure to source more 1st team squad players.
The Head Coach No Manager model only works imo with a vastly experienced Director of Football, which Les Ferdinand is not.
With no money, no pipeline of academy players coming through, mismanagement of contract extensions by a relatively inexperienced DOF (Austin aside), we are not ready for a Head Coach No Manager model and I fear this could get very messy very quickly. Hope I'm wrong. | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:32 - May 3 with 1940 views | daveB |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:21 - May 3 by ParkRoyalR |
Great post, I'm a big Warburton fan, as I am Chris Ramsey, no knowledge of Paul Hall, but given the investment in the new training ground, these guys are soon going to be under significant pressure to source more 1st team squad players.
The Head Coach No Manager model only works imo with a vastly experienced Director of Football, which Les Ferdinand is not.
With no money, no pipeline of academy players coming through, mismanagement of contract extensions by a relatively inexperienced DOF (Austin aside), we are not ready for a Head Coach No Manager model and I fear this could get very messy very quickly. Hope I'm wrong. |
Ferdinand has been in the job for 8 years so not sure anyone can say he is inexperienced | | | |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 21:41 - May 3 with 1873 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Warbs from West London Sport on 18:30 - May 3 by Northernr |
I saw him get linked somewhere else today but can't remember where... |
In terryb’s post? |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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