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Well, the money markets didn't like the mini budget. I met Liz Truss in a hotel in Monmouth a few years ago. She said her solution to pensioner poverty would be to feed them on Pedigree Chum. Not only would this save a lot of money, it would give them shiny coats and a nice cold nose.
‘It’s not a good starting point to remove seven years worth of existing policy!’
Splitting hairs a bit here and you called it existing policy.
Ok let me be clearer.
The Green New Deal movement is a radical, wide ranging, and holistic approach to pivoting the economy toward environmentally friendly production, job creation, and regeneration of town that have been derelict since the thatcher years. It is on a scale like nothing seen since the Victorian era.
It’s supported by all the major environment academics, and even the moderate Biden is considering taking it on.
It will take the profit motive out of energy policy, which is exactly why we are in a cost of living crisis now, and put jobs in the most unemployed areas of Britain.
It has been fully costed, has set targets, and is ready to go.
Labour have rejected it and replaced it with a limp press release because basically it’s a Corbyn era policy.
I expect Labour will still be the best on the environment compared to others, but the scale will not be enough, will be stifled by shareholders and lobbyists, and will fail to launch until it’s too late (if it isn’t already).
It will ask the private sector to do it, and will not put the economic or community considerations in place such as minimum wage demands, Trade Union cooperation, or locate in deindustrialised areas. Expect a lot of tax payer subsidies to flow right into the same major companies that are shitting on us now, not that Labour will openly say this.
The Green New Deal movement is a radical, wide ranging, and holistic approach to pivoting the economy toward environmentally friendly production, job creation, and regeneration of town that have been derelict since the thatcher years. It is on a scale like nothing seen since the Victorian era.
It’s supported by all the major environment academics, and even the moderate Biden is considering taking it on.
It will take the profit motive out of energy policy, which is exactly why we are in a cost of living crisis now, and put jobs in the most unemployed areas of Britain.
It has been fully costed, has set targets, and is ready to go.
Labour have rejected it and replaced it with a limp press release because basically it’s a Corbyn era policy.
I expect Labour will still be the best on the environment compared to others, but the scale will not be enough, will be stifled by shareholders and lobbyists, and will fail to launch until it’s too late (if it isn’t already).
It will ask the private sector to do it, and will not put the economic or community considerations in place such as minimum wage demands, Trade Union cooperation, or locate in deindustrialised areas. Expect a lot of tax payer subsidies to flow right into the same major companies that are shitting on us now, not that Labour will openly say this.
The Green New Deal movement is a radical, wide ranging, and holistic approach to pivoting the economy toward environmentally friendly production, job creation, and regeneration of town that have been derelict since the thatcher years. It is on a scale like nothing seen since the Victorian era.
It’s supported by all the major environment academics, and even the moderate Biden is considering taking it on.
It will take the profit motive out of energy policy, which is exactly why we are in a cost of living crisis now, and put jobs in the most unemployed areas of Britain.
It has been fully costed, has set targets, and is ready to go.
Labour have rejected it and replaced it with a limp press release because basically it’s a Corbyn era policy.
I expect Labour will still be the best on the environment compared to others, but the scale will not be enough, will be stifled by shareholders and lobbyists, and will fail to launch until it’s too late (if it isn’t already).
It will ask the private sector to do it, and will not put the economic or community considerations in place such as minimum wage demands, Trade Union cooperation, or locate in deindustrialised areas. Expect a lot of tax payer subsidies to flow right into the same major companies that are shitting on us now, not that Labour will openly say this.
If anyone has any doubt about where the Labour Party is right now, you have to watch this:
[Post edited 25 Sep 2022 14:02]
As you say it’s a radical change and imo Starmer needs to be careful with how he positions himself to avoid going the same way as Corbyn who had a lot of radical policies and wasn’t electable because people didn’t trust him for various reasons that I won’t go into here.
Winning elections and being in a position to drive positive change is all about compromising to get people to vote for you. You don’t win elections by adopting policy that non core voters feel is too extreme. If the green new deal was likely to help win an election then I doubt Starmer would reject it. Why would he?
The reality is that it’s probably too radical to jump from where we are today to the green new deal without coming across (or being portrayed) as some kind of socialist lunatic. That’s how you lose elections and it bodes well for Starmer that he can read the room.
Alternatively, Labour could continue in their direction of the travel under Corbyn as a glorified protest movement that can’t actually change anything because they’re viewed as too extreme to be trusted to run the country.
The blades used on wind turbines when worn out have to be buried as they are non -biodegradable. Alternatively they are sometimes burnt giving off toxic fumes. So not quite the answer yet.
The blades used on wind turbines when worn out have to be buried as they are non -biodegradable. Alternatively they are sometimes burnt giving off toxic fumes. So not quite the answer yet.
This isn’t true. None of it.
And even if it was, the alternative of the status quo is so much worse!
The blades used on wind turbines when worn out have to be buried as they are non -biodegradable. Alternatively they are sometimes burnt giving off toxic fumes. So not quite the answer yet.
Sadly true. Don't know how that would work but you can apparently turn the material into gummy bears.MMmmmmmmmm....chewy.....
The Green New Deal movement is a radical, wide ranging, and holistic approach to pivoting the economy toward environmentally friendly production, job creation, and regeneration of town that have been derelict since the thatcher years. It is on a scale like nothing seen since the Victorian era.
It’s supported by all the major environment academics, and even the moderate Biden is considering taking it on.
It will take the profit motive out of energy policy, which is exactly why we are in a cost of living crisis now, and put jobs in the most unemployed areas of Britain.
It has been fully costed, has set targets, and is ready to go.
Labour have rejected it and replaced it with a limp press release because basically it’s a Corbyn era policy.
I expect Labour will still be the best on the environment compared to others, but the scale will not be enough, will be stifled by shareholders and lobbyists, and will fail to launch until it’s too late (if it isn’t already).
It will ask the private sector to do it, and will not put the economic or community considerations in place such as minimum wage demands, Trade Union cooperation, or locate in deindustrialised areas. Expect a lot of tax payer subsidies to flow right into the same major companies that are shitting on us now, not that Labour will openly say this.
On a slightly different note - how about the ambitions of new “ health” secretary Therese Coffey. Apart from the rubbish about the Oxford comma, she aims for patients to be seen by GPs within a fortnight. Wow that's reassuring. I watched a TV programme called Smog about the 1952 smog in London. Ambulance call out times increased from 30 minutes to 2 hours ! Shock horror ! My wife had to wait 9 hours for an ambulance a few months back. How long have the Tories been in power now ?
The blades used on wind turbines when worn out have to be buried as they are non -biodegradable. Alternatively they are sometimes burnt giving off toxic fumes. So not quite the answer yet.
Are you saying that all parts of power stations need to be biodegradable to a viable power source?
Are oil rigs biodegradable? Sellafield?
See also the later post on this thread about turbine blades which can be recycled into gummi bears.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I've always wondered about Gordon Brown and the gold he sold so I looked into it and here's some insight. The Independent also has a piece about whether the sell-off was sensible but it's behind a pay wall
NB: "Between 1970-71 the Bank of England sold nearly half of our gold reserves. Just like the Brown sell-off it was sold at a historic low of about $42.5/oz in October 1971". That was the Heath government.
Is that why you downvoted my post, because you've read a financially illiterate article in the Mirror about Brown's idiotic gold sell-off that you agree with?
From that article, no other quote necessary:
"Brown’s justification for the sale was to diversify the country’s assets. As Alan Beattie says in the FT , holding onto gold is a largely pointless activity for governments."
This illustrates a fundamental and dangerous misunderstanding about the nature of what is a store of value. The faith in fiat currency, which is implied here, is utterly misplaced. If fiat currency systems worked so well, why are we spiralling into a debt black hole?
Edited as I'm not sure if my sarcasm was too subtle or conveyed the point I was trying to make
I work with quite a few proper conservatives, members of the party who all voted in the leadership election including up to recently the son of a serving member of Boris's cabinet. All really good people with their heads screwed on.
Anyhow as far as I'm aware none of them wanted Truss quite vehemently (interestingly none of them bar one wanted Boris) But even more so they were disgusted with the mini budget and these are people that generally make more than £150K per year.
I've got the equivalent to a first degree up to the second year in economics but TBH what I can remember about Macro Economics you could write on a postage stamp. However even I can see its totally naive. As someone who works in tax it's like the laffer curve doesn't exist. Look whats happening to the pound . Does anyone think that Sunak would have done the same without having the OBR take an overview of it and release forecasts?
I've heard some pretty damning things about Truss from the aforementioned dyed in the wool conservatives and internal stuff direct from those who work with her. Won't put alot of it here but the consensus seems to be along the lines of she's an extremist even among the extremists in the party. The funniest thing that I heard was said that she is someone who wants to Emulate Thatcher with less than 0% of Thatchers intelligence lol
Guess what I am trying to say is it's nothing to do with Left or Right but more factions within the same party as someone else has also said. Hence thinking this comment was totally stupid. Especially after spending the whole of Friday having my head nipped by those notorious lefty Conservatives furious with the budget lol
Fck that politics threads- never again - my head hurts back to avin it at Psy raves and listening to house music, far more sensible pursuits :-)
I have had as a pet theory since around Easter when it became apparent that the situation in Ukraine was going to be long and drawn out, that the UK housing market is going to go majorly to sh!t (I even re-read Michael Lewis's book, The Big Short - don't watch the film).
A few points here.
1. We now have an entire generation that have bought houses in the UK with mortgages at 0.5%. They do not know what it is like to have average interest rates in the range of 3-5%.
2. Many have bought new build properties on new estates using the Government's "Help to Buy" scheme. There is no equity in this sort of new property (they buy off plan at the developer's market price, and the price of the properties are completely out of kilter with older houses (which are better built).
3. Anecdotally (from looking round the new estates which have sprung up - the thick end of 2000 new properties have gone up in the last 10 years between me and what used to be the quiet village I lived in), the owners of these new houses also have new cars (presumably on PCP finance or similar).
4. As a result of the total financial collapse over the course of the last 12 months, there is no scope in household budgets for a substantial interest rate rise given what is happening with fuel costs (even though these are now capped to an extentl).
My theory, based on what I have seen from property collapses in the late 1980s and the 2008 financial collapse, is that not only is the housing market going to implode with a price crash in the order of about 25% and substantial repossessions, but the second hand car market may also crater with all the car repossessions from the unpaid PCPs.
Two counters to this are that the court system is now incredibly slow (which will slow down repossessions of houses and cars) and that there are so few houses that even if repossessions do happen, the properties will be quickly sold to waiting buyers.
Nonetheless, it is not good.
Rereading the Big Short has been with a view to seeing how to short the UK property market. I think it is actually easier to do with the car industry and spread betting against big car manufacturers and suppliers to the car industry, who operate their own finance schemes or are reliant on new car (VW and Mercedes - the shiny cars on the new estates, and Melrose, who own GKN which supply the formet, are the ones I am looking at). Obviously, it goes without saying that it is my theory based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.
I will be interested to see what happens.
But going back to the OP, the country is in an appalling state financially and yesterday's fiscal event was a joke which the financial markets did not appreciate.
Cracking post and perception of how I see it as well.
The Green New Deal movement is a radical, wide ranging, and holistic approach to pivoting the economy toward environmentally friendly production, job creation, and regeneration of town that have been derelict since the thatcher years. It is on a scale like nothing seen since the Victorian era.
It’s supported by all the major environment academics, and even the moderate Biden is considering taking it on.
It will take the profit motive out of energy policy, which is exactly why we are in a cost of living crisis now, and put jobs in the most unemployed areas of Britain.
It has been fully costed, has set targets, and is ready to go.
Labour have rejected it and replaced it with a limp press release because basically it’s a Corbyn era policy.
I expect Labour will still be the best on the environment compared to others, but the scale will not be enough, will be stifled by shareholders and lobbyists, and will fail to launch until it’s too late (if it isn’t already).
It will ask the private sector to do it, and will not put the economic or community considerations in place such as minimum wage demands, Trade Union cooperation, or locate in deindustrialised areas. Expect a lot of tax payer subsidies to flow right into the same major companies that are shitting on us now, not that Labour will openly say this.
If anyone has any doubt about where the Labour Party is right now, you have to watch this:
[Post edited 25 Sep 2022 14:02]
As the BBC is rubbish and CNN pointless, if I have to watch the news, hen I watch Al J and France 24.
Ive seen two of the "Labour Files' (I think there are three episodes) and it really is a good watch. I wouldn't want Corbyn to be PM, but based on what I've seen thus far of this series, he does come out of it in a different and more positive light.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
As the BBC is rubbish and CNN pointless, if I have to watch the news, hen I watch Al J and France 24.
Ive seen two of the "Labour Files' (I think there are three episodes) and it really is a good watch. I wouldn't want Corbyn to be PM, but based on what I've seen thus far of this series, he does come out of it in a different and more positive light.
If you can’t vote for Corbyn, that’s fine. But it would be nice if accurate unmolested picture of him and the party was offered!
Is that why you downvoted my post, because you've read a financially illiterate article in the Mirror about Brown's idiotic gold sell-off that you agree with?
From that article, no other quote necessary:
"Brown’s justification for the sale was to diversify the country’s assets. As Alan Beattie says in the FT , holding onto gold is a largely pointless activity for governments."
This illustrates a fundamental and dangerous misunderstanding about the nature of what is a store of value. The faith in fiat currency, which is implied here, is utterly misplaced. If fiat currency systems worked so well, why are we spiralling into a debt black hole?
[Post edited 25 Sep 2022 16:01]
Your comment Hubble about "why are we spiralling into a debt black hole" hits the nail on the head
It's quite bizarre comments on this thread about the fall of the pound and posters are talking about energy plans for 2030. Its not relevant to the Original Post of this thread
The pound fell as markets view our government spending way too high alongside the debt we've already racked up and the market is recognising we won't be able to pay it back
But rather than asses that the usual fanatics are high jacking the thread and weirdly just talking about unrelated topics around medium to long term Green energy plan
Back to the topic, the pound will continue to weaken unless we show we can manage our debts so our options are either we have serious austerity or inflation disappears it away. Inflation though hammers the poor and the young who don't own assets and a bigger proportion of their income goes on these inflating essentials
We of course won't go with any real austerity (not the minuscule austerity of post 08). So inflation is what it will be. Central bankers might currently be on their way to trying to crash the economy and we will see periods in the next year or two of deflation but ultimately politicians will do what they do and what the lazy selfish self entitled British electorate will demand of them; print money, run up ever expanding debts and hope your generation dies before it needs to be dealt with
In August alone £8,200,000,000 of tax payers money went on repaying interest on our debts. Well actually around 20% of that is actually us borrowing more money to just pay interest. That's roughly the same as the country's education budget. What a disgraceful waste and this in a country where all you ever hear the Left moan about it we aren't spending and borrowing enough
Reducing the top rate of tax from 45p to 40p on a monthly basis is going to reduce the tax take by an expected £165,000,000. So about 2% of our monthly interest payments.
Wasting money like that on interest payments when we've not had any serious issues to deal with (WW2 style) means I'm quite ashamed of the selfishness of British society. Both on the Left and the Right who have allowed these unsustainable debts to be run up as they just aim to leave the mess for future generations. And the answer still even faced with debt at levels we see is to take on more debt. Borrow more money we can't afford and hope it's not our generations problem to deal with
Well we are beginning to face the consequences now
Disgustingly though, while all will suffer from inflation, the rich, those who own assets will be most protected from inflation as those assets increase in relative value. So that means the older generations most guilty causing this mess will suffer least. While the country's poorest and the young who don't own assets will suffer most
Your comment Hubble about "why are we spiralling into a debt black hole" hits the nail on the head
It's quite bizarre comments on this thread about the fall of the pound and posters are talking about energy plans for 2030. Its not relevant to the Original Post of this thread
The pound fell as markets view our government spending way too high alongside the debt we've already racked up and the market is recognising we won't be able to pay it back
But rather than asses that the usual fanatics are high jacking the thread and weirdly just talking about unrelated topics around medium to long term Green energy plan
Back to the topic, the pound will continue to weaken unless we show we can manage our debts so our options are either we have serious austerity or inflation disappears it away. Inflation though hammers the poor and the young who don't own assets and a bigger proportion of their income goes on these inflating essentials
We of course won't go with any real austerity (not the minuscule austerity of post 08). So inflation is what it will be. Central bankers might currently be on their way to trying to crash the economy and we will see periods in the next year or two of deflation but ultimately politicians will do what they do and what the lazy selfish self entitled British electorate will demand of them; print money, run up ever expanding debts and hope your generation dies before it needs to be dealt with
In August alone £8,200,000,000 of tax payers money went on repaying interest on our debts. Well actually around 20% of that is actually us borrowing more money to just pay interest. That's roughly the same as the country's education budget. What a disgraceful waste and this in a country where all you ever hear the Left moan about it we aren't spending and borrowing enough
Reducing the top rate of tax from 45p to 40p on a monthly basis is going to reduce the tax take by an expected £165,000,000. So about 2% of our monthly interest payments.
Wasting money like that on interest payments when we've not had any serious issues to deal with (WW2 style) means I'm quite ashamed of the selfishness of British society. Both on the Left and the Right who have allowed these unsustainable debts to be run up as they just aim to leave the mess for future generations. And the answer still even faced with debt at levels we see is to take on more debt. Borrow more money we can't afford and hope it's not our generations problem to deal with
Well we are beginning to face the consequences now
Disgustingly though, while all will suffer from inflation, the rich, those who own assets will be most protected from inflation as those assets increase in relative value. So that means the older generations most guilty causing this mess will suffer least. While the country's poorest and the young who don't own assets will suffer most
Market is currently pricing 5.5% interest rate for UK next year
If we don't get there then expect currency to get even weaker even faster
So 5.5% interest rates means mortgage rates of more like 6.5% also plenty of heavily indebted companies out there so unemployment to rise as well in all likelihood as companies go bust
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