| Madsen hamstring 22:20 - Feb 24 with 7304 views | bosh67 |
Apparently it is his hamstring. Another one with a hamstring injury. Will we see him again this season? Huge loss for us if so. |  |
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| Madsen hamstring on 10:33 - Feb 25 with 2456 views | bosh67 |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:30 - Feb 25 by johnhoop |
You’re an optimist. We now have no-one remotely creative in midfield. |
We have Vale who'll have to play the 10 now for the foreseeable. | |
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| Madsen hamstring on 10:33 - Feb 25 with 2446 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:16 - Feb 25 by daveB |
Thats a big part of it, we started the season undercooked, unable to push on in the second half of games as we were not fit yet and it's been that way all season.
Not sure if it was on here or X I read this but RND made a run first half on the break about 60 yards and he looked as out of breath as I am when I climb the stairs to my Mum and Dads flat on the 4th floor. Hands on head, hands on hips bending over, I thought he was going to be sick.
They simply can't play at the same intesity 3 times in a week and for a championship club that is nowhere near good enough |
Yes, I noticed that. I actually wondered if he was injured but it appeared not. Just knackered. |  |
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| Madsen hamstring on 10:50 - Feb 25 with 2364 views | CamberleyR |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:16 - Feb 25 by daveB |
Thats a big part of it, we started the season undercooked, unable to push on in the second half of games as we were not fit yet and it's been that way all season.
Not sure if it was on here or X I read this but RND made a run first half on the break about 60 yards and he looked as out of breath as I am when I climb the stairs to my Mum and Dads flat on the 4th floor. Hands on head, hands on hips bending over, I thought he was going to be sick.
They simply can't play at the same intesity 3 times in a week and for a championship club that is nowhere near good enough |
"They simply can't play at the same intesity 3 times in a week"
Which considering there are 10 occasions during the season (including Christmas/New Year) when you have three games in a week is a big worry.
Edit: We're now in the 8th of 10 three game weeks. So far from these 24 games played we have picked up 30 points (W8 D6 L10) [Post edited 25 Feb 11:02]
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| Madsen hamstring on 10:55 - Feb 25 with 2346 views | JamesB1979 |
I would like to know what discussions happen about the “fit” players. Obviously those that are injured or coming back are a different discussion. But for those that are classified as “fit” and ready to “start”, 1) are their meetings on the “fitness” or “fatigue” of these players? 2) if not, why not. And if so, who is present for these meetings. And if they have these meetings, has no one ever mentioned “Burrell/Madsen have played every minute since 1940s, I think they need either a game or 2 break or remember to sub them after 70 mins” or “Poku/Chair, just back from troublesome injury, best to play 2 in 3 and sub them early”. Are their conversations like this? If not I think it’s absolutely ridiculous and heads need to roll. If they are, is JS involved, I imagine he must be and is he just ignoring them? |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 11:02 - Feb 25 with 2305 views | francisbowles |
I couldn't believe it when I saw he had picked the same team. I posted early on the match thread some of our players, including Madsen and Kone, need a rest. Kone had a huge bandage on his thigh the other day.
Put the conditioning to one side for just a minute. The reality of the situation last night was we were up against a very good side, with a parachute payment, lots of quality and a fair amount of experience. I'm no Clive but even I had heard of most of their team and subs. The other factors they had btb home games we (again) btb away and then our mounting injury list. Add to that the contrast in styles. Them, possession having been schooled by Russell Martin versus us chasing around after the ball all game, which takes a heavy toll on the freshness and fatigue of the players.
The only way to play last night was to rest your tired and most important players and set up like we did at the end when trying for damage limitation, which btw was far too late.
We could have started Cook, Bennie up front with Kolli, Vale with Hayden in the middle, with Morgan and Esquerdinha on the right and left of midfield.
We might have done better, maybe even a point but whatever we wouldn't have injured Madsen, we might have avoided the drubbing as well as the damage to our goal difference and morale, whilst improving our chances against Sheffield red stripe on Saturday, when they have a day less to recover and prepare as well as the travel.
Some times I think we are heading in the right direction. Our slow build towards improvement is bound to have hurdles along the way but another heavy defeat will be a major set back. Unless, somehow, with even more diminished resources, we can make it ' a different team on Saturday'. U Rrrs | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 12:43 - Feb 25 with 2073 views | johnhoop |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:33 - Feb 25 by bosh67 |
We have Vale who'll have to play the 10 now for the foreseeable. |
Vale is a very different type of player though. This season the new version of Madsen has provided cover in front of the back four with his tackling as well as being our only source of creativity from midfield. You’re not going to get any of that from Vale so maybe Ronnie in front of the back four is the best fix for however long it is that Madsen’s going to be out for. | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 13:28 - Feb 25 with 1968 views | KensalT |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:55 - Feb 25 by JamesB1979 |
I would like to know what discussions happen about the “fit” players. Obviously those that are injured or coming back are a different discussion. But for those that are classified as “fit” and ready to “start”, 1) are their meetings on the “fitness” or “fatigue” of these players? 2) if not, why not. And if so, who is present for these meetings. And if they have these meetings, has no one ever mentioned “Burrell/Madsen have played every minute since 1940s, I think they need either a game or 2 break or remember to sub them after 70 mins” or “Poku/Chair, just back from troublesome injury, best to play 2 in 3 and sub them early”. Are their conversations like this? If not I think it’s absolutely ridiculous and heads need to roll. If they are, is JS involved, I imagine he must be and is he just ignoring them? |
I asked a similar question on the "Ben Williams and his team" thread about reporting lines and information on player fitness.
My understanding is that Ben Williams reports to Nourry but not to Stephan.
So you are asking important questions here:
Who is getting what information on player fitness and their ability to play?
Is JS in the loop on this or is he getting what Nourry chooses to tell him?
If JS is clearly getting the right information then why are we managing player fitness/conditioning so badly? | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 13:30 - Feb 25 with 1961 views | vanrrrr |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:50 - Feb 25 by CamberleyR |
"They simply can't play at the same intesity 3 times in a week"
Which considering there are 10 occasions during the season (including Christmas/New Year) when you have three games in a week is a big worry.
Edit: We're now in the 8th of 10 three game weeks. So far from these 24 games played we have picked up 30 points (W8 D6 L10) [Post edited 25 Feb 11:02]
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Wasn’t it the ability to manage three game weeks that Captain Nourry and the Recruitment team promoted as one of strengths of JS ( as well as a stick to beat Marti)? Bunch of chancers the lot of em [Post edited 25 Feb 13:47]
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| Madsen hamstring on 13:36 - Feb 25 with 1940 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Madsen hamstring on 12:43 - Feb 25 by johnhoop |
Vale is a very different type of player though. This season the new version of Madsen has provided cover in front of the back four with his tackling as well as being our only source of creativity from midfield. You’re not going to get any of that from Vale so maybe Ronnie in front of the back four is the best fix for however long it is that Madsen’s going to be out for. |
There must be something wrong with the fitness regime, but could it be some of this in game without the possession strategy is very tiring and if you are forever chasing the game, there is a chance that muscle strains are more likely. Are players in the modern game overtrained? Looking at Southampton they were on the front foot most of the game, passing through and neatly to each other, we play too deep spend a lot of time without the ball and unable to hit our target men, who spend most of their time trying to criss cross the opposition defence feeding off scraps. Although Madsen's injury was in an attacking phase, it's not gone unnoticed for quite a few games he has been up and down the pitch clearing up etc and looks like his body has just reacted to this, a bit like Burrell and all his chasing around game after game. |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:06 - Feb 25 with 1842 views | Hunterhoop |
| Madsen hamstring on 13:28 - Feb 25 by KensalT |
I asked a similar question on the "Ben Williams and his team" thread about reporting lines and information on player fitness.
My understanding is that Ben Williams reports to Nourry but not to Stephan.
So you are asking important questions here:
Who is getting what information on player fitness and their ability to play?
Is JS in the loop on this or is he getting what Nourry chooses to tell him?
If JS is clearly getting the right information then why are we managing player fitness/conditioning so badly? |
It’s quite clear how it is meant to work.
Williams reports to Nourry. Stephan reports to Nourry. Williams’ team should be informing Stephan and his team about players’ conditioning, fitness, injuries, and recommended availability. Stephan decides what to do with that.
If Williams’ team isn’t informing Stephan regularly, promptly, and correctly (ie. “He’s fine”, and then he breaks down injuries), Nourry should be holding Williams accountable.
If Williams’ team is informing properly, but Stephan is ignoring him, and players he was warned about breakdown after being played by him against advice, Nourry should be holding Stephan accountable.
Neither scenario can persist in a player trading model. It would be a disaster to the club and the person failing in whichever scenario is true, probably shouldn’t continue to work here.
I do not know which scenario is true.
I suspect the first one, because it would be pretty stupid (although Beale did it) to ignore the advice of your medical/physio team and risk serious injury to your key players. It would be shooting yourself in the foot.
Is Nourry willing and able to enforce accountability? At present he seems more interested in telling the fans that there isn’t an injury issue. That is a concern. |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:14 - Feb 25 with 1794 views | wombat |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:06 - Feb 25 by Hunterhoop |
It’s quite clear how it is meant to work.
Williams reports to Nourry. Stephan reports to Nourry. Williams’ team should be informing Stephan and his team about players’ conditioning, fitness, injuries, and recommended availability. Stephan decides what to do with that.
If Williams’ team isn’t informing Stephan regularly, promptly, and correctly (ie. “He’s fine”, and then he breaks down injuries), Nourry should be holding Williams accountable.
If Williams’ team is informing properly, but Stephan is ignoring him, and players he was warned about breakdown after being played by him against advice, Nourry should be holding Stephan accountable.
Neither scenario can persist in a player trading model. It would be a disaster to the club and the person failing in whichever scenario is true, probably shouldn’t continue to work here.
I do not know which scenario is true.
I suspect the first one, because it would be pretty stupid (although Beale did it) to ignore the advice of your medical/physio team and risk serious injury to your key players. It would be shooting yourself in the foot.
Is Nourry willing and able to enforce accountability? At present he seems more interested in telling the fans that there isn’t an injury issue. That is a concern. |
i cant see nourry letting williams take any sort of blame for this shit show , they are way to close it seems , hes got more say in the football side of things than he shoud have as well , arent the methodology guys responsbile for certain players indiviual training programmes as well ? presume this also comes from williams ?
wondewr if we will see ruben at the club in the coming weeks hes not been around since the badly times comments on social media a few months back |  |
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| Madsen hamstring on 14:58 - Feb 25 with 1694 views | Hunterhoop |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:14 - Feb 25 by wombat |
i cant see nourry letting williams take any sort of blame for this shit show , they are way to close it seems , hes got more say in the football side of things than he shoud have as well , arent the methodology guys responsbile for certain players indiviual training programmes as well ? presume this also comes from williams ?
wondewr if we will see ruben at the club in the coming weeks hes not been around since the badly times comments on social media a few months back |
Nah, I think De Souza, as Head of Methodology, also reports up to Nourry, not into Williams.
I’m sure he does have more influence than he should. Was just explaining how it’s meant to work. | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 15:03 - Feb 25 with 1593 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Madsen hamstring on 11:02 - Feb 25 by francisbowles |
I couldn't believe it when I saw he had picked the same team. I posted early on the match thread some of our players, including Madsen and Kone, need a rest. Kone had a huge bandage on his thigh the other day.
Put the conditioning to one side for just a minute. The reality of the situation last night was we were up against a very good side, with a parachute payment, lots of quality and a fair amount of experience. I'm no Clive but even I had heard of most of their team and subs. The other factors they had btb home games we (again) btb away and then our mounting injury list. Add to that the contrast in styles. Them, possession having been schooled by Russell Martin versus us chasing around after the ball all game, which takes a heavy toll on the freshness and fatigue of the players.
The only way to play last night was to rest your tired and most important players and set up like we did at the end when trying for damage limitation, which btw was far too late.
We could have started Cook, Bennie up front with Kolli, Vale with Hayden in the middle, with Morgan and Esquerdinha on the right and left of midfield.
We might have done better, maybe even a point but whatever we wouldn't have injured Madsen, we might have avoided the drubbing as well as the damage to our goal difference and morale, whilst improving our chances against Sheffield red stripe on Saturday, when they have a day less to recover and prepare as well as the travel.
Some times I think we are heading in the right direction. Our slow build towards improvement is bound to have hurdles along the way but another heavy defeat will be a major set back. Unless, somehow, with even more diminished resources, we can make it ' a different team on Saturday'. U Rrrs |
If they're a 'very good side', how come both QPR and Southampton had 47 points when we kicked off? Does that not mean we're also a very good side - or (more probably) we made another mediocre side look like PSG? |  |
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| Madsen hamstring on 15:23 - Feb 25 with 1603 views | TheChef |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:58 - Feb 25 by Hunterhoop |
Nah, I think De Souza, as Head of Methodology, also reports up to Nourry, not into Williams.
I’m sure he does have more influence than he should. Was just explaining how it’s meant to work. |
Which also makes me wonder what Methodology he/we are applying.
Apparently Andy Belk has been at QPR for 17 years!! Look forward to reading his memoirs  |  |
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| Madsen hamstring on 15:49 - Feb 25 with 1491 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Madsen hamstring on 15:03 - Feb 25 by stainrods_elbow |
If they're a 'very good side', how come both QPR and Southampton had 47 points when we kicked off? Does that not mean we're also a very good side - or (more probably) we made another mediocre side look like PSG? |
Perhaps Will Steal had something to do with where they are in the league. They are top 4 on current form under the new manager. | |
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| Madsen hamstring on 16:05 - Feb 25 with 1447 views | francisbowles |
| Madsen hamstring on 15:03 - Feb 25 by stainrods_elbow |
If they're a 'very good side', how come both QPR and Southampton had 47 points when we kicked off? Does that not mean we're also a very good side - or (more probably) we made another mediocre side look like PSG? |
If you watched the game and their ability, it was self evident that they are a good side.
They may not have been earlier in the season but they are much improved.
We've had our moments this season and arguably, on our day, with more of our 'favourite players available' we are a good side. | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 17:42 - Feb 25 with 1279 views | BeauRanger |
| Madsen hamstring on 10:16 - Feb 25 by Monkey_Roots |
I does put the 'start the season undercooked so that we come into our own at the business-end of the season' in the toilet, eh?
I do think the club needs a rethink on who's running the fitness, or the strategy etc.
Madsen is a HUGE loss... imagine saying that a year ago.
Devastating. |
Starting the season undercooked & yet finishing it apparently overcooked is some achievement by the medical teams 🙄 |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 18:04 - Feb 25 with 1213 views | FDC |
| Madsen hamstring on 17:42 - Feb 25 by BeauRanger |
Starting the season undercooked & yet finishing it apparently overcooked is some achievement by the medical teams 🙄 |
So we're BBQing, rather than cooking ? |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 18:16 - Feb 25 with 1163 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Madsen hamstring on 15:03 - Feb 25 by stainrods_elbow |
If they're a 'very good side', how come both QPR and Southampton had 47 points when we kicked off? Does that not mean we're also a very good side - or (more probably) we made another mediocre side look like PSG? |
Isn't it strange how the EPL takes place over about 10 months?
It allows for teams to be good at points, or bad at other times.
If you can recall there was a period this season where QPR themselves looked "quite good" and we had brief aspirations to the top six.
There are many reasons why a teams form can change, maybe Southampton started the season with a losing mentality bought over from a poor year in the Prem, like Luton did? |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 18:42 - Feb 25 with 1068 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Madsen hamstring on 08:29 - Feb 25 by Malintabuk |
Totally agree.. it is the modern game played so fast and so physically now
Which makes this recent injury so unbelievable. OK we can say say, pardon the pun, that injuries have "hamstringed" JS choices, but he as to contend with this and adapt
I was one of the few on here that wasn't too upset with the 3 x 0-0 bore fest, I kinda understand that, but what totally defies logic is playing players until they literally collapse
I went last night, and I had every expectation of us being beat, but you kinda hope that he would rest Kone, Madsen and even Dunne
We could have started Bennie for Kone, Varane for Madsen and JCS for Dunne.. stodge it up and even might have sneaked a draw...
But know we play the exact same team.... people are having a go at Dunne... and I can't get my head around it... yes he had a bad game.... but FFS the lad is dead on his feet.... like Kone is.... and now Madsen is....
I left after the 4th... and I'm old enough and ugly enough to shrug a shoulder and say well let's go again, it wasn't my first Shellacking, that was Man utd in 1968... and I'm guessing it won't be my last.
But what is p!ssing me off this morning it the club, not the players... the club have put these players in this position
Inadequate preparation, poor use of resources, poor management, playing and recruiting players not suited for this division... the list can go on and on... |
I'll second this and add that Dunne started the season with his shoulder held together with tape at right back. Personally think he's better for us at RB but that doesn't matter, he's turns out week in week out and he gives 100% He always has a couple of bad games every season usually at CB, so it is something he needs to address even if its telling the manager when he shouldn't play.
I can forgive Jimmy, RND less so I mean what is he good at? Walsh shouldn't even be in the match squad.
I won't go on about the players but If they know they are tired then they have to play to that as you say slow it down, petty fouls, lots of knocks etc sometimes it has to be done dark arts and all that.
Questions for the cycling boys should be:
What is the rate of 'First Team' injuries?
How does the rate compare to the league average?
Are we returning players to 'First Team' action faster or slower than the league average?
What is the rate of re-occurrence?
Is the rate of re-occurrence above or below the league average?
Using the answers provided how does performance compare to 24/25 and then to 23/24.
Personally I'd ask them to get on their bike as well. | |
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| Madsen hamstring on 19:24 - Feb 25 with 948 views | BristolR |
| Madsen hamstring on 18:04 - Feb 25 by FDC |
So we're BBQing, rather than cooking ? |
Not just BBQing but old school with last year’s charcoal and firelighters in a small round portable BBQ….lots of burnt sausages |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 16:12 - Feb 26 with 511 views | CamberleyR |
| Madsen hamstring on 15:49 - Feb 25 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Perhaps Will Steal had something to do with where they are in the league. They are top 4 on current form under the new manager. |
39 points from 22 games under Eckert. | |
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| Madsen hamstring on 16:42 - Feb 26 with 424 views | nix |
| Madsen hamstring on 14:06 - Feb 25 by Hunterhoop |
It’s quite clear how it is meant to work.
Williams reports to Nourry. Stephan reports to Nourry. Williams’ team should be informing Stephan and his team about players’ conditioning, fitness, injuries, and recommended availability. Stephan decides what to do with that.
If Williams’ team isn’t informing Stephan regularly, promptly, and correctly (ie. “He’s fine”, and then he breaks down injuries), Nourry should be holding Williams accountable.
If Williams’ team is informing properly, but Stephan is ignoring him, and players he was warned about breakdown after being played by him against advice, Nourry should be holding Stephan accountable.
Neither scenario can persist in a player trading model. It would be a disaster to the club and the person failing in whichever scenario is true, probably shouldn’t continue to work here.
I do not know which scenario is true.
I suspect the first one, because it would be pretty stupid (although Beale did it) to ignore the advice of your medical/physio team and risk serious injury to your key players. It would be shooting yourself in the foot.
Is Nourry willing and able to enforce accountability? At present he seems more interested in telling the fans that there isn’t an injury issue. That is a concern. |
A good summary.
I hope it is the former. I’d be very disappointed in Stephan if he’s ignoring medical advice in player fitness.
As for Williams Nourry has to see that the fitness and conditioning departments are not working. We seem to be simultaneously unfit and ravaged by injuries. I agree with the poster about our style of player being quite attritional so harder on players but I’m sure we’re not the only team with less possession but we seem an outlier in terms of injury records.
Sometimes as CEO you have to take the tough decisions, friends or not. If he won’t take that decision maybe the Board need to step in. I wonder if it’s telling that Williams did not keep his other job he had at the same time as ours last season?
I also wonder if other teams’ fitness departments have an input into training methods? Is that also an issue? Did we prepare players well enough for pre-season as we were getting injuries even then? Do we look at player loads across the season to make sure players are not over-played? Managers should not be able to overrule the medical staff, which is why it makes sense to me for them not to report into the manager. One season might be bad luck but two consecutive seasons with a youngish squad yet terrible injury performance is unacceptable. |  | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 16:59 - Feb 26 with 354 views | TK1 |
| Madsen hamstring on 16:42 - Feb 26 by nix |
A good summary.
I hope it is the former. I’d be very disappointed in Stephan if he’s ignoring medical advice in player fitness.
As for Williams Nourry has to see that the fitness and conditioning departments are not working. We seem to be simultaneously unfit and ravaged by injuries. I agree with the poster about our style of player being quite attritional so harder on players but I’m sure we’re not the only team with less possession but we seem an outlier in terms of injury records.
Sometimes as CEO you have to take the tough decisions, friends or not. If he won’t take that decision maybe the Board need to step in. I wonder if it’s telling that Williams did not keep his other job he had at the same time as ours last season?
I also wonder if other teams’ fitness departments have an input into training methods? Is that also an issue? Did we prepare players well enough for pre-season as we were getting injuries even then? Do we look at player loads across the season to make sure players are not over-played? Managers should not be able to overrule the medical staff, which is why it makes sense to me for them not to report into the manager. One season might be bad luck but two consecutive seasons with a youngish squad yet terrible injury performance is unacceptable. |
I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally, nor have I any real information that isn't public domain about QPR's management structure.
However, it seems to me that all of Nourry, Hoos and Williams' success or failure is too tied to each other for there to be any real public accountability. That would come from on high, from the owners, ie Ruben. But he's absent. He relies on these guys marking their own homework, which is why it's good to have a Chairman who is also an investor.
There was a conscious decision to hire Nourry over Steve Gallen by the board on Hoos' recommendation. And so while Rangers repeat last season in a slightly different order of events but at a much higher fee, the striking success of Millwall over the same period under Gallen is a very loud bell being rung throughout all those Teams Meeting board dial-ins, I imagine.
It's also why there's a lot of the X trolls now telling all that Millwall are "several years ahead of us in the cycle". They're not. They're just doing a better job with similar materials. I expect some posts on here soon saying the same from new posters soon. | | | |
| Madsen hamstring on 17:12 - Feb 26 with 294 views | TheChef |
| Madsen hamstring on 16:59 - Feb 26 by TK1 |
I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally, nor have I any real information that isn't public domain about QPR's management structure.
However, it seems to me that all of Nourry, Hoos and Williams' success or failure is too tied to each other for there to be any real public accountability. That would come from on high, from the owners, ie Ruben. But he's absent. He relies on these guys marking their own homework, which is why it's good to have a Chairman who is also an investor.
There was a conscious decision to hire Nourry over Steve Gallen by the board on Hoos' recommendation. And so while Rangers repeat last season in a slightly different order of events but at a much higher fee, the striking success of Millwall over the same period under Gallen is a very loud bell being rung throughout all those Teams Meeting board dial-ins, I imagine.
It's also why there's a lot of the X trolls now telling all that Millwall are "several years ahead of us in the cycle". They're not. They're just doing a better job with similar materials. I expect some posts on here soon saying the same from new posters soon. |
I've asked it before but I'm not really sure what Hoos does in his role as Chairman.
I mean he appears to attend most matches (he was there Tuesday night) but he doesn't seem to do anything on an executive level, even if he should be. | |
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