| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82554 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 11:56 - Apr 14 with 2382 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 11:54 - Apr 14 by QPR_John |
But Scargill was directly involved in the dispute and I bring his name up for that reason not that I think he was better or worse. I just wonder what went on behind the scenes and maybe the main problem was that both wanted to win no matter what the consequences. |
Quite possibly, but there is such a thing as being magnanimous in victory, what we got looked decidedly vindictive. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 12:03 - Apr 14 with 2372 views | MkPaul |
Well now it's my turn to bow out of this discussion as there are now only a few of us keeping it going and opinions won't change on either side regardless of what is said |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 12:17 - Apr 14 with 2369 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 12:03 - Apr 14 by MkPaul |
Well now it's my turn to bow out of this discussion as there are now only a few of us keeping it going and opinions won't change on either side regardless of what is said |
I agree this is getting a bit tedious, but before you go would you do me the favour of answering this quick question.
You obviously believe that Thatcher did more good than bad, but do you accept that there were a significant few, who at least in the short to mid-term, suffered under Thatcher's rule, and that these same people were amongst the poorest and therefor the less well able to deal with it?
If the answer is yes, how can you expect them to respect the cause of their suffering, and deny them the right to protest | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 12:23 - Apr 14 with 2367 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 12:17 - Apr 14 by Cliff |
I agree this is getting a bit tedious, but before you go would you do me the favour of answering this quick question.
You obviously believe that Thatcher did more good than bad, but do you accept that there were a significant few, who at least in the short to mid-term, suffered under Thatcher's rule, and that these same people were amongst the poorest and therefor the less well able to deal with it?
If the answer is yes, how can you expect them to respect the cause of their suffering, and deny them the right to protest |
I agree mistakes were made, not sure the suffering some suffered was all down to her I would put more of the blame at the door of Scargil etc. the changes needed making the decisions on how were to a great extent taken out of her hands by the this will never happen attitude of some.
Protest while she is in power, even protest whilst she is alive, but dance on her grave ... In actions arranged by 25 year old rich boys who live at home with mummy and daddy in their £1m pound home ... I think that says more about those individuals than it does about society but I know I wouldn't like to be like them and glad I was brought up with different morales
Can I just add that I feel she did far more good for this country than bad and far more than most PM's before and all PM's since [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 12:28 - Apr 14 with 2363 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 12:23 - Apr 14 by MkPaul |
I agree mistakes were made, not sure the suffering some suffered was all down to her I would put more of the blame at the door of Scargil etc. the changes needed making the decisions on how were to a great extent taken out of her hands by the this will never happen attitude of some.
Protest while she is in power, even protest whilst she is alive, but dance on her grave ... In actions arranged by 25 year old rich boys who live at home with mummy and daddy in their £1m pound home ... I think that says more about those individuals than it does about society but I know I wouldn't like to be like them and glad I was brought up with different morales
Can I just add that I feel she did far more good for this country than bad and far more than most PM's before and all PM's since [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I'm not 25, I don't live in a £1m home with my parents (or otherwise) so please don't fog the issue once again with irrelevant arguments.
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| Thatcher dead on 12:39 - Apr 14 with 2358 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 12:28 - Apr 14 by Cliff |
I'm not 25, I don't live in a £1m home with my parents (or otherwise) so please don't fog the issue once again with irrelevant arguments.
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Unless you have managed to arrange all of the actions then clearly you were not being spoken about in that post! I answered honestly as you requested, and again you chose to twist and ignore most of the post | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 12:52 - Apr 14 with 2352 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 12:39 - Apr 14 by MkPaul |
Unless you have managed to arrange all of the actions then clearly you were not being spoken about in that post! I answered honestly as you requested, and again you chose to twist and ignore most of the post |
No you did not answer the question honestly. I asked:
"do you accept that there were a significant few, who at least in the short to mid-term, suffered under Thatcher's rule, and that these same people were amongst the poorest and therefor the less well able to deal with it?
If the answer is yes, how can you expect them to respect the cause of their suffering, and deny them the right to protest"
and your answer included:
"Protest while she is in power, even protest whilst she is alive, but dance on her grave ... In actions arranged by 25 year old rich boys who live at home with mummy and daddy in their £1m pound home ... "
The protests in the ex-mining communities don't match that profile do they? and I'm betting you knew I wasn't asking about those sort of protesters either.
And by the way, as for morals ( a dig at thatcher here, no you!), who's morals are better; a person who has no respect for the living, or a person who has no respect for the dead? | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 13:11 - Apr 14 with 2344 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 12:52 - Apr 14 by Cliff |
No you did not answer the question honestly. I asked:
"do you accept that there were a significant few, who at least in the short to mid-term, suffered under Thatcher's rule, and that these same people were amongst the poorest and therefor the less well able to deal with it?
If the answer is yes, how can you expect them to respect the cause of their suffering, and deny them the right to protest"
and your answer included:
"Protest while she is in power, even protest whilst she is alive, but dance on her grave ... In actions arranged by 25 year old rich boys who live at home with mummy and daddy in their £1m pound home ... "
The protests in the ex-mining communities don't match that profile do they? and I'm betting you knew I wasn't asking about those sort of protesters either.
And by the way, as for morals ( a dig at thatcher here, no you!), who's morals are better; a person who has no respect for the living, or a person who has no respect for the dead? |
Ok they had the right to protest whilst she was alive ... Both through organising rally's march's etc and by voting her out of power at the following elections but it seems that enough people were happy with her actions as PM to vote her in at two elections.
As I have stated the miners were probably more to blame for the way it happened in their blind following of Scargil so maybe they should protest against him
With regards to respect I would suggest she had plenty of respect for the living where it was warranted and also contempt for others .. But she probably had enough class not to celebrate someone's death | | | |
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| Thatcher dead on 13:42 - Apr 14 with 2337 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 13:11 - Apr 14 by MkPaul |
Ok they had the right to protest whilst she was alive ... Both through organising rally's march's etc and by voting her out of power at the following elections but it seems that enough people were happy with her actions as PM to vote her in at two elections.
As I have stated the miners were probably more to blame for the way it happened in their blind following of Scargil so maybe they should protest against him
With regards to respect I would suggest she had plenty of respect for the living where it was warranted and also contempt for others .. But she probably had enough class not to celebrate someone's death |
Well thank you, that did answer what I asked.
If I understand correctly, her contempt of one man was enough in your view for her to ruin the lives of many she had never met, and it was there own fault for being in a union anyway.
As for respecting the dead how much respect for the dead did she show in helping Pinochet and the Khmer Rouge? and you call that class!
As for celebrating her death, as I said before, I don't believe showing disrespect for someone who had no respect for so many others (either living or dead), shows a lack of either morals or class.
The bottom line I guess is that I, and many others, are celebrating her death, and will continue to do, and as I said in another post, any pain and upset this causes her uncaring, self centered supporters only increases my enjoyment.
I might even finally agree to join my other half and get tickets to a top London musical, where I can join in with chorus to the opening of the second act! | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:37 - Apr 14 with 2324 views | TacticalR |
| Thatcher dead on 13:42 - Apr 14 by Cliff |
Well thank you, that did answer what I asked.
If I understand correctly, her contempt of one man was enough in your view for her to ruin the lives of many she had never met, and it was there own fault for being in a union anyway.
As for respecting the dead how much respect for the dead did she show in helping Pinochet and the Khmer Rouge? and you call that class!
As for celebrating her death, as I said before, I don't believe showing disrespect for someone who had no respect for so many others (either living or dead), shows a lack of either morals or class.
The bottom line I guess is that I, and many others, are celebrating her death, and will continue to do, and as I said in another post, any pain and upset this causes her uncaring, self centered supporters only increases my enjoyment.
I might even finally agree to join my other half and get tickets to a top London musical, where I can join in with chorus to the opening of the second act! |
There is something I am beginning to understand about the Thatcherites, which I couldn't for the life of me work out before.
I could understand all the attacks on the 70s Labour government, because they were evil Keynesians who liked nothing better than spending tax-payers' money on useless, environmentally-harmful smokestack industries, and were in thrall to the unions who wouldn't collect the dead bodies that were piling up in the street. The nation was sinking fast and would have soon been under water. I could understand the attacks on Michael Foot because he was a frail old fool and impractical donkey-jackedeted leftist who would have brought back all the bad old stuff that St. Thatch had just got rid of, and there would have been dead bodies piling up in the street again. And Neil Kinnock? An impotent welsh windbag who would have left us up to our eyes in dead bodies.
What I couldn't get my head round was the ferocity of the attacks on Blair and Brown ('Thatcher & Sons', to use the title of former Conservative researcher Simon Jenkin's recent book), who after all seemed to be the most faithful of followers, continuing the great work of the messiah, spreading the gospel (Maggie Carta?) of market forces throughout the land.
Then the problem hit me. The capitalist economy in general and the British economy in particular is in a prolonged crisis. Banks, businesses and even whole economies are either going down or being propped up by state intervention. But was it not written that St. Thatch saved the economy and brought peace and prosperity unto the land (and converted the Ruskies into the bargain)? How could this be? How could the worm of economic crisis have been brought into the Garden of Economic recovery?
The problem was made more difficult by the lack of contemporary enemies. All the old targets had been defeated, and there don't seem to be any new ones to replace them. The unions were nowhere to be seen and there wasn't a decent corpse to found in the streets. By what device had we been driven from the Garden of Economic recovery? The guilty men must be found. The explanation had to lie in the past, *but not so far in the past that it overlapped with the reign of our saviour St. Thatch*. One Thatcherite on here even tried to deny Thatcher's role in the Big Bang and the deregulation of financial services. So who were the guilty men? Why Blair and Brown of course! Somehow these imposters had wrecked all the good work of the messiah in the name of the messiah. It's not certain how they did it, or when the rot set in, but it must have been some time during their term in office. It must be so, for St. Thatch delivered us from the old evils, yet the old evils are still with us. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:47 - Apr 14 with 2316 views | TheBlob |
36 pages....
It's eating everything in its path!!!!!!!!
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| Thatcher dead on 14:48 - Apr 14 with 2311 views | Gloucs_R |
As they say in Dragons Den...
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| Thatcher dead on 14:53 - Apr 14 with 2309 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 14:37 - Apr 14 by TacticalR |
There is something I am beginning to understand about the Thatcherites, which I couldn't for the life of me work out before.
I could understand all the attacks on the 70s Labour government, because they were evil Keynesians who liked nothing better than spending tax-payers' money on useless, environmentally-harmful smokestack industries, and were in thrall to the unions who wouldn't collect the dead bodies that were piling up in the street. The nation was sinking fast and would have soon been under water. I could understand the attacks on Michael Foot because he was a frail old fool and impractical donkey-jackedeted leftist who would have brought back all the bad old stuff that St. Thatch had just got rid of, and there would have been dead bodies piling up in the street again. And Neil Kinnock? An impotent welsh windbag who would have left us up to our eyes in dead bodies.
What I couldn't get my head round was the ferocity of the attacks on Blair and Brown ('Thatcher & Sons', to use the title of former Conservative researcher Simon Jenkin's recent book), who after all seemed to be the most faithful of followers, continuing the great work of the messiah, spreading the gospel (Maggie Carta?) of market forces throughout the land.
Then the problem hit me. The capitalist economy in general and the British economy in particular is in a prolonged crisis. Banks, businesses and even whole economies are either going down or being propped up by state intervention. But was it not written that St. Thatch saved the economy and brought peace and prosperity unto the land (and converted the Ruskies into the bargain)? How could this be? How could the worm of economic crisis have been brought into the Garden of Economic recovery?
The problem was made more difficult by the lack of contemporary enemies. All the old targets had been defeated, and there don't seem to be any new ones to replace them. The unions were nowhere to be seen and there wasn't a decent corpse to found in the streets. By what device had we been driven from the Garden of Economic recovery? The guilty men must be found. The explanation had to lie in the past, *but not so far in the past that it overlapped with the reign of our saviour St. Thatch*. One Thatcherite on here even tried to deny Thatcher's role in the Big Bang and the deregulation of financial services. So who were the guilty men? Why Blair and Brown of course! Somehow these imposters had wrecked all the good work of the messiah in the name of the messiah. It's not certain how they did it, or when the rot set in, but it must have been some time during their term in office. It must be so, for St. Thatch delivered us from the old evils, yet the old evils are still with us. |
Well said.
I for one am glad we've ditched to old ways of propping up failing industries with state funding. Can you imagine the shite we'd be in if we'd bailed out the banks with state money?
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| Thatcher dead on 15:01 - Apr 14 with 2300 views | TacticalR |
| Thatcher dead on 14:53 - Apr 14 by Cliff |
Well said.
I for one am glad we've ditched to old ways of propping up failing industries with state funding. Can you imagine the shite we'd be in if we'd bailed out the banks with state money?
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But the trick is to preserve the memory of St. Thatch by denying her connection to such evils. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 06:18 - Apr 15 with 2236 views | isawqpratwcity |
Fox Business are hardly an impartial observer.
I don't think Thatcher could offer America much at all to relieve its economic problems. It was George W. with his aversion to banking controls who created the mess before he left office. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 07:14 - Apr 15 with 2227 views | loftboy |
My memory may be wrong, but wasn't one of the miners grievances is that they wanted to guarantee jobs for their children and grand children even if their pit was no longer viable? |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 07:15 - Apr 15 with 2228 views | CanadaRanger |
| Thatcher dead on 06:18 - Apr 15 by isawqpratwcity |
Fox Business are hardly an impartial observer.
I don't think Thatcher could offer America much at all to relieve its economic problems. It was George W. with his aversion to banking controls who created the mess before he left office. |
I'm not concerned the source is Fox Business.
What we see here in Canada is a USA that still does not have the intestinal fortitude to adequately address its addiction to foreign borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States
Thatcher cured the UK's addiction to IMF loans, and it was very hard on a lot of people, but someone had to do it.
The USA has not found that person yet. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:00 - Apr 15 with 2201 views | Cliff |
They can have our one:
1. They are far better off with a dead Thatcher than a live one, and
2. If would save us £10m + for the funeral.
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| Thatcher dead on 10:02 - Apr 15 with 2200 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 07:14 - Apr 15 by loftboy |
My memory may be wrong, but wasn't one of the miners grievances is that they wanted to guarantee jobs for their children and grand children even if their pit was no longer viable? |
I think your memory must be wrong, and even if it was asked for and the government granted it, no future government would even consider honouring it. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 13:32 - Apr 15 with 2167 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Thatcher dead on 07:15 - Apr 15 by CanadaRanger |
I'm not concerned the source is Fox Business.
What we see here in Canada is a USA that still does not have the intestinal fortitude to adequately address its addiction to foreign borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States
Thatcher cured the UK's addiction to IMF loans, and it was very hard on a lot of people, but someone had to do it.
The USA has not found that person yet. |
And I'm very concerned that they will.
Contraction of the US economy will put the world's economy into a phase that will make what we've seen so far look like 'slight migraine'.
The problem with America and its economy is that the Republicans hold a veto that they justify on the basis that people on $250k are too poor to face a tax increase.
Yeh, maybe Thatcher would go for that. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 13:48 - Apr 15 with 2148 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 07:15 - Apr 15 by CanadaRanger |
I'm not concerned the source is Fox Business.
What we see here in Canada is a USA that still does not have the intestinal fortitude to adequately address its addiction to foreign borrowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States
Thatcher cured the UK's addiction to IMF loans, and it was very hard on a lot of people, but someone had to do it.
The USA has not found that person yet. |
Because the very people that run the IMF and own the USA's debts own the USA.Why should they wipe it all out and lose the interest?Wheels within wheels.
"They" also have a nice spread bet on the decline and fall of the Euro.Like Soros bet against the Pound when Jocky Brown was in charge.
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| Thatcher dead on 13:55 - Apr 15 with 2138 views | TacticalR |
I thought we'd all agreed we weren't going to do anymore graphs?  | |
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| Thatcher dead on 14:17 - Apr 15 with 2124 views | shrewranger |
| Thatcher dead on 11:23 - Apr 14 by MkPaul |
But could the country afford to keep that up? ... Also what was the quality do the service provided? |
i can only speak as one who worked for the southern electricity board pre and post privatisation, and certainly the service has not improved.there used to be local offices employing local people..no overseas call centres.the pricing structure was clearer,although the unit price did vary slightly from board to board,and in real terms, as shown in the previous post,electricity was cheaper.also its worth factoring in that we used british made vehicles and equipment wherever possible,which the new shareholder driven companies dont.
and most importantly she sold us what we already owned. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:22 - Apr 15 with 2091 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Thatcher dead on 14:17 - Apr 15 by shrewranger |
i can only speak as one who worked for the southern electricity board pre and post privatisation, and certainly the service has not improved.there used to be local offices employing local people..no overseas call centres.the pricing structure was clearer,although the unit price did vary slightly from board to board,and in real terms, as shown in the previous post,electricity was cheaper.also its worth factoring in that we used british made vehicles and equipment wherever possible,which the new shareholder driven companies dont.
and most importantly she sold us what we already owned. |
Even as a rabid socialist, no, especially as.., its the last line that most resonates with me, about selling what we already owned (oh, and also the absence of increase in service. btw). | |
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