| Football is broken on 15:06 - May 19 with 4215 views | traininvain |
Bring on a European super league for all the moneyed clubs and leave the rest of us to it. I can see this happening within 5 years. |  | |  |
| Football is broken on 15:48 - May 19 with 4062 views | Sharpy36 |
| Football is broken on 15:06 - May 19 by traininvain |
Bring on a European super league for all the moneyed clubs and leave the rest of us to it. I can see this happening within 5 years. |
Agree, but it would have to be home fans only. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Football is broken on 16:03 - May 19 with 4023 views | davman |
| Football is broken on 15:06 - May 19 by traininvain |
Bring on a European super league for all the moneyed clubs and leave the rest of us to it. I can see this happening within 5 years. |
It was the only logical conclusion just before the birth of the Premier League and didn't happen then; it will not happen now. The gap between the top 6 and the rest of the Premier League is one thing, but the gap opening up between the rest of the Prem and the Championship is getting bigger and is even more concerning, not just to clubs like us who will not be able to compete in the next 2-3 years, but also to those 14 clubs when they drop out of the Big league.
Not those that go out after one or two seasons, but those who drop after 5 or 6 years and don't get back. Those are the clubs who believe that they have "made it" and belong in the top league. If they have one or two windows of bad recruitment ora minor injury crisis, they would need to off load all of their high earners and may lose their good players.
With Premier League running costs on a fraction of their income, there may be no going back for them.
What chance for Bournemouth when (not if) they drop and their backers leave?
So, yes, "Football is broken", but it is far more broken than the author of that piece acknowledges as he is falling into the big media trap of believing that Football IS the Premier League... There:s more outside the cash league, you know... |  |
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| Football is broken on 17:59 - May 19 with 3880 views | traininvain |
| Football is broken on 16:03 - May 19 by davman |
It was the only logical conclusion just before the birth of the Premier League and didn't happen then; it will not happen now. The gap between the top 6 and the rest of the Premier League is one thing, but the gap opening up between the rest of the Prem and the Championship is getting bigger and is even more concerning, not just to clubs like us who will not be able to compete in the next 2-3 years, but also to those 14 clubs when they drop out of the Big league.
Not those that go out after one or two seasons, but those who drop after 5 or 6 years and don't get back. Those are the clubs who believe that they have "made it" and belong in the top league. If they have one or two windows of bad recruitment ora minor injury crisis, they would need to off load all of their high earners and may lose their good players.
With Premier League running costs on a fraction of their income, there may be no going back for them.
What chance for Bournemouth when (not if) they drop and their backers leave?
So, yes, "Football is broken", but it is far more broken than the author of that piece acknowledges as he is falling into the big media trap of believing that Football IS the Premier League... There:s more outside the cash league, you know... |
It’ll happen when the big clubs decide its the best course of action to make more money. We can’t be far away from that point and unfortunately the likes of Bournemouth, Leeds and QPR won’t have any say in the matter.
Maybe it’ll take longer than 5 years, but it’ll happen as football has become a business which has to continue growing in order to satisfy the financials involved. | | | |
| Football is broken on 18:46 - May 19 with 3761 views | daveB |
They only won the league by a point, will probably be close again next season
This is what FFP brings though ensures the rich dominate leagues, we're lucky in England we have 4/5 rich clubs so the top of the league is likely to be competitive and the big tv money is spread across the league so the bottom teams are able to spend and have a decent side but other countries like France, Germany, Greece even Portugal it's a one horse race most seasons |  | | |
| Football is broken on 20:07 - May 19 with 3588 views | QPR_John |
| Football is broken on 18:46 - May 19 by daveB |
They only won the league by a point, will probably be close again next season
This is what FFP brings though ensures the rich dominate leagues, we're lucky in England we have 4/5 rich clubs so the top of the league is likely to be competitive and the big tv money is spread across the league so the bottom teams are able to spend and have a decent side but other countries like France, Germany, Greece even Portugal it's a one horse race most seasons |
I wonder about the Premier League being competitive there may only be one point between first and second but twenty five between second and third |  | | |
| Football is broken on 20:34 - May 19 with 3538 views | daveB |
| Football is broken on 20:07 - May 19 by QPR_John |
I wonder about the Premier League being competitive there may only be one point between first and second but twenty five between second and third |
you don't get many leagues where 3rd/4th are close to the title, it was very close between the top 2 this year so pretty competitive and 3rd - 6th were pretty competitive with each other as well | | | |
| Football is broken on 01:24 - May 20 with 3276 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Football is broken on 20:34 - May 19 by daveB |
you don't get many leagues where 3rd/4th are close to the title, it was very close between the top 2 this year so pretty competitive and 3rd - 6th were pretty competitive with each other as well |
Can't believe the utter cr*p here. It was pretty much a two-horse race in the PL this year, and the gap between the top 6 and the rest was/is ludicrous. The days of a promoted side a la Watford or Forest coming up and taking the top tier by storm are long gone. |  |
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| Football is broken on 06:38 - May 20 with 3143 views | traininvain |
| Football is broken on 18:46 - May 19 by daveB |
They only won the league by a point, will probably be close again next season
This is what FFP brings though ensures the rich dominate leagues, we're lucky in England we have 4/5 rich clubs so the top of the league is likely to be competitive and the big tv money is spread across the league so the bottom teams are able to spend and have a decent side but other countries like France, Germany, Greece even Portugal it's a one horse race most seasons |
Man City have managed 198pts over 2 seasons. They won 18 out of 19 games in the second half of the season and the FA Cup final 6-0. And their best player (De Bruyne) was injured for most of the season.
If you think this indicates a financially fair league then we have a different view on what’s fair. Liverpool pushing them close this season just papers over the cracks and I doubt it’ll happen again next season after Man City strengthen again. | | | |
| Football is broken on 09:10 - May 20 with 2997 views | runningman75 |
Man City's bench of Aguero, Sane and De Bruyne showed the inequalities of football. Though if Arry had the riches of Man City our bench would likely to have still consisted of Niko and Sandro.  | | | |
| Football is broken on 09:16 - May 20 with 2983 views | daveB |
| Football is broken on 01:24 - May 20 by stainrods_elbow |
Can't believe the utter cr*p here. It was pretty much a two-horse race in the PL this year, and the gap between the top 6 and the rest was/is ludicrous. The days of a promoted side a la Watford or Forest coming up and taking the top tier by storm are long gone. |
Apart from this year when Wolves came up and finished 7th and Burnley finished 7th the year before and both got into europe.
When was this golden period when the title race was between 4/5/6 teams, i've never known it in my lifetime. Always between either 2 sides who spend the most money or 1 team walk away with it | | | |
| Football is broken on 09:22 - May 20 with 2972 views | daveB |
| Football is broken on 06:38 - May 20 by traininvain |
Man City have managed 198pts over 2 seasons. They won 18 out of 19 games in the second half of the season and the FA Cup final 6-0. And their best player (De Bruyne) was injured for most of the season.
If you think this indicates a financially fair league then we have a different view on what’s fair. Liverpool pushing them close this season just papers over the cracks and I doubt it’ll happen again next season after Man City strengthen again. |
I don't think it's fair but it's never been fair and if you took the top 6 out of the league and into a super league the Premier league would still be dominated by the teams who spend the most money and spend it well. For me it's more about how well City have spent the money in the last few years, they were spending more 6/7 years ago and nowhere near this good
You see teams like Spurs spending a lot less but still competing at the very top. Leicester won the league a few years ago and this is the first year we've had back to back winners for a decade. City will eventually be caught up these things never last forever, who;d have thought a decade ago Man Utd would be this shit | | | |
| Football is broken on 10:35 - May 20 with 2881 views | ElHoop |
| Football is broken on 09:22 - May 20 by daveB |
I don't think it's fair but it's never been fair and if you took the top 6 out of the league and into a super league the Premier league would still be dominated by the teams who spend the most money and spend it well. For me it's more about how well City have spent the money in the last few years, they were spending more 6/7 years ago and nowhere near this good
You see teams like Spurs spending a lot less but still competing at the very top. Leicester won the league a few years ago and this is the first year we've had back to back winners for a decade. City will eventually be caught up these things never last forever, who;d have thought a decade ago Man Utd would be this shit |
In the distant past Man Utd had the best chance of being the best team because they had 65000 or whatever it was watching every week and so they had slightly more money than everyone else. But Liverpool could probably get 55000 in and Arsenal and Everton and City and Villa could also get huge crowds and that was enough to make them competitive. Celtic and Rangers would win European competitions because they were competitive on the basis of their gate income. Players' wages were relatively low, it cost little to get into a game, and when you got into the ground there was a fair chance that your club could end up winning something eventually, if you had enough support. Just about every club in the top two divisions had that level of support and could ultimately dream of winning something someday. Most of those clubs would eventually win something or the other sometime.
Compare that to now and we've got globalisation and commercial reach which which makes gate money far less significant. So if you turn up to watch your well -supported club you are cannon fodder for the big guns as they have stolen your aspirations with their financial supremacy. You can't even 'buy back' that deficit due to FFP. Most of the clubs in the top two divisions will never win anything ever again if things remain as they are at the moment.
Globalisation has been allowed to do this without any resistance from elected politicians, British and European politicians in particular. America doesn't allow this - their sporting structure gives all cities a chance of success and the spoils are shared. It's nice to have a win every now and then and celebrate with your neighbours and friends. That right has been stolen from us almost completely. Yes Leicester did win the league, but the rotation of success which used to apply to soccer no longer applies. If a political party actually took on this issue I think they'd do well from it, but you can't see it happening. They all lack any imagination, reality or desire, which is why ultimately they are all hopefully heading for the political scrap heap, because they are absolute bloody shite. [Post edited 20 May 2019 10:36]
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| Football is broken on 10:58 - May 20 with 2831 views | NW5Hoop |
I got into a row about this on Twitter yesterday, and ended up making a spreadsheet of top 6 places over the last 40 seasons to prove someone wrong. The massive division between the time real money started flooding the game —Â the start of this century - and the time before is obvious. Basically, there are now (and have been for the last decade) five clubs who can guarantee themselves European competition. That was not the case before. You can still get into this group, but only through long-term and sustained investment, or through having an exceptionally brilliant coach (if Spurs don't start spending soon, I think they risk becoming a peripheral club again —Â lose Pochettino, Kane and Eriksen, and were would they be?).
2010-19
11 different clubs in top 6
Four of those appeared in top 6 only once
One appeared twice
Same clubs occupied top 6 for last three years
Three clubs have appeared in every top 6
Two have appeared in 9/10 of the top sixes
Five clubs accounted for 48 of the possible top six placings during this period.
2000-2009
12 different clubs in top 6
Two of those appeared only once
Two appeared two times
Two appeared three times
Four clubs were in every top six
1990-99
18 different clubs in top 6
Eight appeared once
Two appeared twice
No club was in every top 6
One club was in nine
1980-89
19 different clubs in top 6
Eight appeared once
One appeared twice
One club was in every top 6 | | | |
| Football is broken on 11:29 - May 20 with 2779 views | derbyhoop |
The PL is definitely governed by money and the difference between the PL and Championship are significant enough to distort the competition.
Fulham and Cardiff are coming down after 1 season. Wolves were a success but they breached FFP by a huge margin in 2017/18 in order to win promotion.
The Championship isn't distorted as much but parachute payments make a huge difference.
The 3 sides that came down to the Championship last season weren't in great shape and only 1 made the top 6. How many other teams could have afforded Gayle and Rodrigues? If Villa do not go up this year whilst in receipt of parachute money, they could be in serious trouble.
The sides at the bottom of the Championship, with rare exceptions, are the ones that are struggling financially. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Football is broken on 13:00 - May 20 with 2626 views | TheChef |
| Football is broken on 10:35 - May 20 by ElHoop |
In the distant past Man Utd had the best chance of being the best team because they had 65000 or whatever it was watching every week and so they had slightly more money than everyone else. But Liverpool could probably get 55000 in and Arsenal and Everton and City and Villa could also get huge crowds and that was enough to make them competitive. Celtic and Rangers would win European competitions because they were competitive on the basis of their gate income. Players' wages were relatively low, it cost little to get into a game, and when you got into the ground there was a fair chance that your club could end up winning something eventually, if you had enough support. Just about every club in the top two divisions had that level of support and could ultimately dream of winning something someday. Most of those clubs would eventually win something or the other sometime.
Compare that to now and we've got globalisation and commercial reach which which makes gate money far less significant. So if you turn up to watch your well -supported club you are cannon fodder for the big guns as they have stolen your aspirations with their financial supremacy. You can't even 'buy back' that deficit due to FFP. Most of the clubs in the top two divisions will never win anything ever again if things remain as they are at the moment.
Globalisation has been allowed to do this without any resistance from elected politicians, British and European politicians in particular. America doesn't allow this - their sporting structure gives all cities a chance of success and the spoils are shared. It's nice to have a win every now and then and celebrate with your neighbours and friends. That right has been stolen from us almost completely. Yes Leicester did win the league, but the rotation of success which used to apply to soccer no longer applies. If a political party actually took on this issue I think they'd do well from it, but you can't see it happening. They all lack any imagination, reality or desire, which is why ultimately they are all hopefully heading for the political scrap heap, because they are absolute bloody shite. [Post edited 20 May 2019 10:36]
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Very nicely put.
Interesting point you make re EU v US sport. US has a much more egalitarian approach, however as we all know there is no promotion/relegation so it is still a closed shop in many ways. Everything else is 'minor league' and has no chance of getting in.
Not sure which system is worse! |  |
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| Football is broken on 13:25 - May 20 with 2581 views | R_from_afar |
Great article, thanks for posting. The Guardian calls it right.
Money does not necessarily equal success - look at Man U - but it certainly stacks the deck in your favour.
Financial fair play, as it currently stands, is not going to help either. It's hardly a level playing field if you base what a club can spend on its revenues. Some clubs have grounds which are a fraction of the size of those of other clubs in the same division.
It should be based on a salary "bucket", so, you can spend n£m per season on your squad. The same amount for all clubs in the division. If you want to blow most of that figure on one superstar, fine, but the rest of the players will need to less costly. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Football is broken on 13:30 - May 20 with 2565 views | ElHoop |
| Football is broken on 13:00 - May 20 by TheChef |
Very nicely put.
Interesting point you make re EU v US sport. US has a much more egalitarian approach, however as we all know there is no promotion/relegation so it is still a closed shop in many ways. Everything else is 'minor league' and has no chance of getting in.
Not sure which system is worse! |
Well thank you.
I guess that every sport in every country owes a lot to its roots and over there maybe that's how it was set up in the first place or how they all ended up wanting to run things. At least if you have got one team in your city with a chance of winning the Superbowl or whatever else, then that's better than none at all. I don't think that you would get very far in trying to change our club culture over here, so I think that all you can do is accept that we have loads of clubs, some bigger than others, and give them all a fair chance in relation to their physical attendances.
I wouldn't want America's political system with what from the outside sometimes seems to be a choice between the Brexit Party and UKIP. Our football seems a little more democratic than say Germany's and Spain's for instance. If you are aspiring to be a progressive nation then you ought to be looking at ways of improving everything by a little bit here and a little bit there, importing ideas from everywhere and anywhere. I think that if we re-democratised our football then others in Europe would follow, just as they all did eventually when we brought in three points for a win, for example. It's a hard thing to argue against. [Post edited 20 May 2019 13:31]
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| Football is broken on 13:33 - May 20 with 2543 views | bob566 |
Kompany hits post. Article never gets published. | | | |
| Football is broken on 13:35 - May 20 with 2531 views | DavieQPR |
A European Super League is only wanted by the likes of Real, Bayern, Juve, Barcelona because they are jealous, and frightened, by the TV money in the EPL. |  | | |
| Football is broken on 13:36 - May 20 with 2524 views | R_from_afar |
Oh, and while I am here, an Arsenal fan was recently arguing with me that it was right to base FFP on revenues. Nice.   | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Football is broken on 13:40 - May 20 with 2495 views | Gloucs_R |
Its the same for most major leagues. Almost certainly the Top 3 will come from a predictable 4/5.
I'd like to see a salary cap, like they have in rugby, but with really tight rules surrounding it. Absolutely no chance of it happening though. |  |
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| Football is broken on 13:46 - May 20 with 2463 views | ElHoop |
| Football is broken on 13:40 - May 20 by Gloucs_R |
Its the same for most major leagues. Almost certainly the Top 3 will come from a predictable 4/5.
I'd like to see a salary cap, like they have in rugby, but with really tight rules surrounding it. Absolutely no chance of it happening though. |
I don't think that a salary cap would work - it would just make the clubs far more valuable and endlessly traded around by billionaires and corporations. Well, even more so than is already the case.
I think that a form of FFP is the answer but the amount that you could spend on player wages and transfer fees would be determined by your physical attendances. The rest of your income would have to be spent on stadium improvements/expansion, academies or given to community schemes. | | | |
| Football is broken on 13:48 - May 20 with 2458 views | QPR_Jim |
| Football is broken on 13:40 - May 20 by Gloucs_R |
Its the same for most major leagues. Almost certainly the Top 3 will come from a predictable 4/5.
I'd like to see a salary cap, like they have in rugby, but with really tight rules surrounding it. Absolutely no chance of it happening though. |
I think a salary cap is the only solution really but there's not wide enough support for it to ever get introduced. |  | | |
| Football is broken on 15:49 - May 20 with 2261 views | Phildo |
| Football is broken on 13:48 - May 20 by QPR_Jim |
I think a salary cap is the only solution really but there's not wide enough support for it to ever get introduced. |
Unfortunately a salary cap is not working in Rugby (see Saracens) and leading to a realistic chance there will be no promotion to the top tier there within a few years.
The American system is based on 'franchises' and none of us want that.
The only way to make it competitive is to spread the money evenly which accidentally happened with the overseas broadcasting revenue. |  | | |
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