| tomorrow can't come quick enough 14:17 - Oct 16 with 2020674 views | batman |
Not for us, but for Bury.
i was credit checking a potential customer and decided to nosey onto
BFC's file and was (or maybe not) supprised to see a new CCJ for circa £22k lodged
only Wednesday this week.
looks like they are in need of a bumper crowd tomorrow to settle some bills |  | | |  |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:42 - Jun 4 with 7249 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:53 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
I can't understand why, given the financial history of our 'neighbours', there hasn't been more adverse publicity and probing about the way they are run.
I know David Conn wrote a fairly scathing and searching article a few years ago in a national newspaper, but the situation has deteriorated since then and yet, here they still are, smoke and mirrors, apparently dodging a bullet, though God knows how.
If the correct rules were properly applied, (as they should be) I'm sure the whole house of cards would collapse. |
Thing is SL, the Chur has done a great job with the spinning of "the journey" to the point that those who could challenge it have either lapped it up, walked away or don't believe it to be true.
The higher the stakes, the higher the fall. You have to think the inevitable is coming.
The Chur's five plan started with the promise of Championship football.
Five years on he has spent near on £12m and delivered one promotion and one relegation - bury being back where they started in May 2013 with the exception that they no longer own their ground.
If you want a laugh - read this with the benefit of five years of hindsight.
I think Kevin Blackwell is still my favourite bury manager appointed under the Chur, closely followed by Lee Clark.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/shakers-saf |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:59 - Jun 4 with 7209 views | SuddenLad |
What a laugh that is.......
"With the club £1 million in debt, new Chairman Stewart Day said that this situation must never be allowed to happen again"
Pass me the Tena for Men.......  |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:22 - Jun 4 with 7171 views | SuddenLad |
Just for good measure, Bury have signed winger Byron Moore, formerly of Bristol Rovers....... | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:52 - Jun 4 with 7139 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:59 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
What a laugh that is.......
"With the club £1 million in debt, new Chairman Stewart Day said that this situation must never be allowed to happen again"
Pass me the Tena for Men....... |
It's a quality article that. As is anything with Kevin Blackwell commenting on bury fc.
Blackwell and the Chur do hold the record mind for the best win in recent years - 15-0 vs Cornish giants St Blazey FC! | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:57 - Jun 4 with 7133 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:22 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
Just for good measure, Bury have signed winger Byron Moore, formerly of Bristol Rovers....... |
Fits the mould:
1) Only 22 league starts for Brizzle in two seasons (maximum of 92 games)
2) Only 36 league starts for Port Vale in two seasons prior to that
58 starts (plus 40 sub appearances) in 184 games makes me think he will fit right in to the players treatment room.
Let's hope he has a three year deal.... | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:08 - Jun 4 with 7119 views | TVOS1907 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:22 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
Just for good measure, Bury have signed winger Byron Moore, formerly of Bristol Rovers....... |
They would be better off with Brian Moore... |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:09 - Jun 4 with 7116 views | pnc4eva1 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:34 - Jun 4 by RAFCBLUE |
It does but not yet.
Palace's accounts are severely overdue by a couple of months.
bury's accounts are only slightly overdue (a few days).
Companies House will send the same to bury if they don't file and become similarly overdue by that timescale. |
Wonder if that would be another winding up order |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:15 - Jun 4 with 7106 views | SuddenLad |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:08 - Jun 4 by TVOS1907 |
They would be better off with Brian Moore... |
Or even Patrick Moore. He's recognised a few stars in his time......  | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:19 - Jun 4 with 7096 views | pnc4eva1 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:15 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
Or even Patrick Moore. He's recognised a few stars in his time...... |
And has an amazing similarity of lloks and physique to the Chur | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 03:48 - Jun 5 with 6911 views | downunder |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:22 - Jun 4 by SuddenLad |
Just for good measure, Bury have signed winger Byron Moore, formerly of Bristol Rovers....... |
The instructions, from the Chur, were to "Buy one more". They can't get owt right. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 07:57 - Jun 5 with 6824 views | dingdangblue |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 03:48 - Jun 5 by downunder |
The instructions, from the Chur, were to "Buy one more". They can't get owt right. |
I know the chur loves an ageing striker but this maybe too far...
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:23 - Jun 5 with 6730 views | sykeboy |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:57 - Jun 4 by RAFCBLUE |
Fits the mould:
1) Only 22 league starts for Brizzle in two seasons (maximum of 92 games)
2) Only 36 league starts for Port Vale in two seasons prior to that
58 starts (plus 40 sub appearances) in 184 games makes me think he will fit right in to the players treatment room.
Let's hope he has a three year deal.... |
And of course turned down a number of league 1 clubs to sign for the Chur🙄 | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:35 - Jun 5 with 6564 views | Shun |
When was the last time an English team was actually punished for financial misdemeanours? Certainly a decade or so ago it seemed there were a handful of teams every season receiving significant points deductions, but I can't recall any since then. The amount of teams who've had financial problems since then yet not received any punishment makes me think that nothing untoward will happen to Bury at all. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:03 - Jun 5 with 6499 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 20:52 - Jun 4 by RAFCBLUE |
It's a quality article that. As is anything with Kevin Blackwell commenting on bury fc.
Blackwell and the Chur do hold the record mind for the best win in recent years - 15-0 vs Cornish giants St Blazey FC! |
That win got the Big Jessie Riendorf a contract at giggle. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:14 - Jun 5 with 6285 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:03 - Jun 5 by Yorkshire_Dale |
That win got the Big Jessie Riendorf a contract at giggle. |
I don't think it did YD. Were you thinking of Anton Forrester?
There is no mention of him here:
https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2013/july/st-blazey-0-bury-15-fifteen/
Remember that bury's all conquering, fishermen bashing, invincibles got off from being odds on to win the league in July 2013 to a very shaky start.
Losing opening league fixtures against Chesterfield and Oxford meant that Kevin Blackwell's planned Championship celebrations were put on ice.
Big Jessy got drafted and played their Capital Cup game at Norwich, uncharacteristically scoring a worldy and then in four others. Two goals in five games.
By the end of September he went missing without trace, albeit on a two year deal.
Shipped off then to Tamworth in January 2014 on loan where he played for three months. I think he had the rest of the time off to practice his shooting.
According to Wikipedia Jessy has played a staggering 67 times professionally.
And twice for international superpower, Rwanda.
You've got to admire an international scouting network that bring such rough and uncut diamonds to our leagues.
And Kevin Blackwell who said:
"He reminds me so much of Kevin Francis but with a slightly better touch"
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bury-find-n
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:03 - Jun 6 with 5999 views | fermin |
Not sure whether to put this here or on the Oldham thread:
Not clear to me why he appears to only have figures for some clubs or why we aren't on many of the charts as we have submitted our accounts. Perhaps someone on twitter could ask him. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 23:57 - Jun 6 with 5807 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:14 - Jun 5 by RAFCBLUE |
I don't think it did YD. Were you thinking of Anton Forrester?
There is no mention of him here:
https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2013/july/st-blazey-0-bury-15-fifteen/
Remember that bury's all conquering, fishermen bashing, invincibles got off from being odds on to win the league in July 2013 to a very shaky start.
Losing opening league fixtures against Chesterfield and Oxford meant that Kevin Blackwell's planned Championship celebrations were put on ice.
Big Jessy got drafted and played their Capital Cup game at Norwich, uncharacteristically scoring a worldy and then in four others. Two goals in five games.
By the end of September he went missing without trace, albeit on a two year deal.
Shipped off then to Tamworth in January 2014 on loan where he played for three months. I think he had the rest of the time off to practice his shooting.
According to Wikipedia Jessy has played a staggering 67 times professionally.
And twice for international superpower, Rwanda.
You've got to admire an international scouting network that bring such rough and uncut diamonds to our leagues.
And Kevin Blackwell who said:
"He reminds me so much of Kevin Francis but with a slightly better touch"
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bury-find-n
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Thanks for the correction RBlue........I'm sure Big Jessie made a sub appearance at San Spotty for bury......did n't he fall over as he came on? | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:33 - Jun 7 with 5640 views | aleanddale |
I still don't understand.
can somebody in layman explain the following.
Bury live beyond means ( Rack up debt )
Chur coverts the debt into shares.
How does that matter and how do they pay what they owe?.
As I put before I read an article in the weekend paper a few weekends ago and its exactly what Glasgow Rangers are doing to raise capital. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:14 - Jun 8 with 5386 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:33 - Jun 7 by aleanddale |
I still don't understand.
can somebody in layman explain the following.
Bury live beyond means ( Rack up debt )
Chur coverts the debt into shares.
How does that matter and how do they pay what they owe?.
As I put before I read an article in the weekend paper a few weekends ago and its exactly what Glasgow Rangers are doing to raise capital. |
I’ll try aleanddale - but bear with me!
When a company owes a third party (individual or business) money, its usually an unsecured creditor.
Unsecured meaning if the company fails that creditor gets nothing or a small proportion of what they are owed.
At a certain point, the unsecured creditor gets so nervous that the company who owes it money may offer it shares in the company.
Effectively saying - come and own part of this business and its future (profits and dividends) instread of chasing us for money we can’t pay.
If the creditor AND the existing shareholders agree the the creditor gets some shares in the company and swaps that for their unsecured balance.
Shares give you a security that being a simple creditor does not and additionally, a say (voting rights) in how the company may be run.
For existing shareholders it’s mixed news. The company continues trading, but their shares and the share prices are devalued because there are more shares in issue.
In the case of football clubs doing this it’s simply a method to keep trading. Shares in a lower division football club are effectively worthless because effectively you are owning the management of debt and potential losses!
If you’re an unsecured creditor owed a large amount, you’re effectively boxed into supporting the club or risking getting nothing. If you are only are owed a small amount or don’t want shares then you issue a winding up petition to try and kill the company to get your money.
Hope useful. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:30 - Jun 8 with 5363 views | RAFCBLUE |
This Liverpool friendly is interesting timing as are the arrangements.
14th July, the day before the 2018 World Cup final. 3pm kickoff.
Liverpool getting two, possibly three sides of the ground.
And Liverpool simply directing fans to the buryfc ticket site operated by Eventbrite means bury get all the cash up front.
Of the £20 some of it will be VAT so bury presumably get £16.66 x 10,000 supporters - £167k
I wonder what bury fans will see first; their annual accounts or a Liverpool player we’ve heard of.
At least it’s not a pop concert so there’s hope of seeing a game! | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:36 - Jun 8 with 5360 views | aleanddale |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:14 - Jun 8 by RAFCBLUE |
I’ll try aleanddale - but bear with me!
When a company owes a third party (individual or business) money, its usually an unsecured creditor.
Unsecured meaning if the company fails that creditor gets nothing or a small proportion of what they are owed.
At a certain point, the unsecured creditor gets so nervous that the company who owes it money may offer it shares in the company.
Effectively saying - come and own part of this business and its future (profits and dividends) instread of chasing us for money we can’t pay.
If the creditor AND the existing shareholders agree the the creditor gets some shares in the company and swaps that for their unsecured balance.
Shares give you a security that being a simple creditor does not and additionally, a say (voting rights) in how the company may be run.
For existing shareholders it’s mixed news. The company continues trading, but their shares and the share prices are devalued because there are more shares in issue.
In the case of football clubs doing this it’s simply a method to keep trading. Shares in a lower division football club are effectively worthless because effectively you are owning the management of debt and potential losses!
If you’re an unsecured creditor owed a large amount, you’re effectively boxed into supporting the club or risking getting nothing. If you are only are owed a small amount or don’t want shares then you issue a winding up petition to try and kill the company to get your money.
Hope useful. |
Excellent thanks.
so the Chur is paying bills ( day to day / wages etc ) with what revenue they raise + dips into his own company ( was Mercardo from memory )
Mercardo shows huge losses but he his able to stumble along using the method above?.
rather than him call In the cash when available he takes shares so in effect has taken total control?
He is a crafty fooker isn't he?
Lower than a snakes belly though!!
Last One RAFCBLUE  when does it get to breaking point as Mercardo just ceased trading does he just move onto another loss making business he owns?. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:23 - Jun 8 with 5264 views | TVOS1907 |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:30 - Jun 8 by RAFCBLUE |
This Liverpool friendly is interesting timing as are the arrangements.
14th July, the day before the 2018 World Cup final. 3pm kickoff.
Liverpool getting two, possibly three sides of the ground.
And Liverpool simply directing fans to the buryfc ticket site operated by Eventbrite means bury get all the cash up front.
Of the £20 some of it will be VAT so bury presumably get £16.66 x 10,000 supporters - £167k
I wonder what bury fans will see first; their annual accounts or a Liverpool player we’ve heard of.
At least it’s not a pop concert so there’s hope of seeing a game! |
There’s also the possibility that Liverpool won’t be playing this game for free... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 07:18 - Jun 9 with 4974 views | RAFCBLUE |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 06:36 - Jun 8 by aleanddale |
Excellent thanks.
so the Chur is paying bills ( day to day / wages etc ) with what revenue they raise + dips into his own company ( was Mercardo from memory )
Mercardo shows huge losses but he his able to stumble along using the method above?.
rather than him call In the cash when available he takes shares so in effect has taken total control?
He is a crafty fooker isn't he?
Lower than a snakes belly though!!
Last One RAFCBLUE when does it get to breaking point as Mercardo just ceased trading does he just move onto another loss making business he owns?. |
Thanks aleanddale.
Regarding your supplementary question, it really does depend on how the debts owed (or shares if the have been swapped for shares, as described) are transferred.
There are a long set of complex rules.
However, given there is no cash flowing, if you try to get around this by setting up a new similar arrangement just to run up a big debt then the banks and HMRC are usually wise to it.
Hence why when the money runs out you start to see things like CCJ’s , Winding Up Petitions etc.
For the Chur it really will depend on the complexity of what sits behind those loans secured on Gigg Lane and the ability to service them.
And still no accounts! | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:00 - Jun 11 with 4542 views | batman |
Two more CCJ's lodged
25/5 - £882
6/6 - £772
coming to something when you can't/won't pay even your smaller
creditors, who probably need the money more than most.
This despite the Chur saying he was due to receive £60 million | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 17:49 - Jun 11 with 4343 views | Nigeriamark |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:33 - Jun 7 by aleanddale |
I still don't understand.
can somebody in layman explain the following.
Bury live beyond means ( Rack up debt )
Chur coverts the debt into shares.
How does that matter and how do they pay what they owe?.
As I put before I read an article in the weekend paper a few weekends ago and its exactly what Glasgow Rangers are doing to raise capital. |
As well as RAFC Blues excellent answer, you can also put into context of how the UK is run as mirroring Bury
Living beyond it's means ( Is the debt past 2 trillion now) - Chur/Politicians
Continuing to run up this debt - Chur/Politicians
Interest payments now limiting what can actually be invested. Bury/Country
Been doing it for years under different mamnagement - s Chur & his managers / Tory & Labour PMs & MPs
Eventually will catch up, with the innocent paying for it -Bury fans/Taxpayers
So whether it is the economy or a football clubs finances, it happens because there are rules and lack of transparency that allow it to happen. There is little punishment for cocking up, but plenty of punishment for those who have little influence but are affected by these decisions
Anarchist Mark!! |  | | |
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