| Hypothetical question.. 20:11 - Dec 6 with 8746 views | JimmyRustler |
If the man at the helm right now wasn't KH and hadn't achieved what he's achieved with us, how many would be questioning his position right now?
I'm not talking just about results either. His attitude has always been quite poor towards the fans but the pre and post match comments with regards to today's game have really tickled my pickle and I'm sick of his condescension towards to the fans and to an extent, the club itself.
I don't think it would be unfair to label him tactically inept at this moment in time and tbh his decision making with regards to formations and starting lineups is almost suicidal.
The guy has worked wonders here but he shouldn't be untouchable and exempt from scrutiny. With all of this being said, he is IMO the right man to take us forward but I can't help think that if anyone else was in charge right now, we'd be making some serious noise.
As I've already stated, it isn't so much the results or our current league position but the guy is pretty much mugging us off as supporters and I honestly don't think we'd accept that from anyone else. Is that right?
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:20 - Dec 6 with 6027 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
He would quite rightly be hailed as a miricle worker. |  |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:31 - Dec 6 with 5969 views | macro |
I disagree, at present we are in L1, mid table and looking for the first time ever to survive a second season in the old division3/League 1
Yes there are odd comments and sometimes for an experienced manager his quotes and interviews are naive, and I for one cannot think of a reason why Michael Rose came on as sub today ahead of Alessandra or Bunney. Baffling.
I don’t think that he is untouchable or exempt from scrutiny but he has worked wonders.
Realistically Dale miss Lund and Allen in midfield along with an under performing/misfiring Vincenti and Henderson - we can’t afford these passengers which is why we look out muscled in Midfield and poor upfront against the better teams. |  | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:34 - Dec 6 with 5956 views | TalkingSutty |
I think he sees the fans as a hinderence and 'not worthy' and i also think he sees himself as bigger than the club, like he is doing us all a big favour. He's been allowed to act like that though. He even has the arrogance to think he can educate everybody, the bloody big head.
As a manager I like him, but that's about it. I just see him as a club employee though, like all the players, if our club wasn't paying his wages he would go somewhere else. Losing football matches always hurts the supporters the most and an FA Cup game against a local rival would never be viewed as a 'Free Hit'.
He had been recently sacked when we employed him and he is being paid a bloody good wage by the Club. In today's post match interview he ignored the question about missing out on much needed revenue and stressed how much money he had brought into the Club, that's what he is employed to do though isn't it, part of his job spec? |  | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:35 - Dec 6 with 5949 views | 1mark1 |
In response to the OP.
Results we have had in themselves would not want me to see the back of a manager , but the rest you allude to, in regards to attitude would make me feel unsympathetic to him losing his job. [Post edited 6 Dec 2015 20:37]
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:35 - Dec 6 with 5942 views | onetonyellis |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:31 - Dec 6 by macro |
I disagree, at present we are in L1, mid table and looking for the first time ever to survive a second season in the old division3/League 1
Yes there are odd comments and sometimes for an experienced manager his quotes and interviews are naive, and I for one cannot think of a reason why Michael Rose came on as sub today ahead of Alessandra or Bunney. Baffling.
I don’t think that he is untouchable or exempt from scrutiny but he has worked wonders.
Realistically Dale miss Lund and Allen in midfield along with an under performing/misfiring Vincenti and Henderson - we can’t afford these passengers which is why we look out muscled in Midfield and poor upfront against the better teams. |
It wouldn't be the first time ever. When we went up in 1969 we spent five consecutive seasons in the old division three, albeit fighting relegation a few times. We finally came down in 1973-74 under Walter Joyce. |  | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:40 - Dec 6 with 5913 views | 1949er |
If arrogance was a virtue he would be pope | |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:46 - Dec 6 with 5877 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:35 - Dec 6 by onetonyellis |
It wouldn't be the first time ever. When we went up in 1969 we spent five consecutive seasons in the old division three, albeit fighting relegation a few times. We finally came down in 1973-74 under Walter Joyce. |
Aye, having won only two league games all season. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:48 - Dec 6 with 5861 views | JimmyRustler |
I guess my question should have been, is it his reputation and his reputation alone that is making him exempt from genuine scrutiny?
(As I said, on results alone he's still doing a more than acceptable job) | | | |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 20:58 - Dec 6 with 5826 views | 1949er |
Is hill exempt from criticism. It seems the rose tinted glasses brigade only see the the positives and ignore the amount of times wrong team and formation decisions are made. | |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 21:04 - Dec 6 with 5785 views | macro |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:35 - Dec 6 by onetonyellis |
It wouldn't be the first time ever. When we went up in 1969 we spent five consecutive seasons in the old division three, albeit fighting relegation a few times. We finally came down in 1973-74 under Walter Joyce. |
Apologies, I wasn’t born in 73! - my mistake and lack of early 70s knowledge | | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:09 - Dec 6 with 5761 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:58 - Dec 6 by 1949er |
Is hill exempt from criticism. It seems the rose tinted glasses brigade only see the the positives and ignore the amount of times wrong team and formation decisions are made. |
Hill isn't exempt from criticism; this board since today's game finished proves that. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 21:24 - Dec 6 with 5712 views | JimmyRustler |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:09 - Dec 6 by TVOS1907 |
Hill isn't exempt from criticism; this board since today's game finished proves that. |
I don't think criticism at this point is enough. I'm really hoping that Dunphy has a quiet word but that probably isn't gonna happen.. | | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:38 - Dec 6 with 5667 views | D_Alien |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:24 - Dec 6 by JimmyRustler |
I don't think criticism at this point is enough. I'm really hoping that Dunphy has a quiet word but that probably isn't gonna happen.. |
I don't think he will either.
My thinking behind Hill's "free hit" comment is that his remit is to maintain our status in L1 (anything better would be a bonus) whilst producing players who we can sell to balance the books and help finance buying the stadium. He's well in credit on both counts so any "let's have a word" discussion will, for the time being at least, not happen.
The above remit affects his team selections and playing policy. To introduce youngsters and signings from elsewhere who can be viewed by clubs at a higher level as worth buying, they need to display certain skills. that's what he's trying to induct them into, and he himself seems to be hinting that will occasionally mean the best XI won't be on the pitch and that going for the three points every game isn't the very top priority. Sometimes we win despite not playing our best XI (presuming we have one) and Hill knows, through experience, that it can be a bit of a lottery at times; refs decisions etc.
Sadly, entertainment and thinking about the fans comes a very poor third or fourth, if it all.
[Post edited 6 Dec 2015 21:41]
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| Hypothetical question.. on 21:46 - Dec 6 with 5634 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:38 - Dec 6 by D_Alien |
I don't think he will either.
My thinking behind Hill's "free hit" comment is that his remit is to maintain our status in L1 (anything better would be a bonus) whilst producing players who we can sell to balance the books and help finance buying the stadium. He's well in credit on both counts so any "let's have a word" discussion will, for the time being at least, not happen.
The above remit affects his team selections and playing policy. To introduce youngsters and signings from elsewhere who can be viewed by clubs at a higher level as worth buying, they need to display certain skills. that's what he's trying to induct them into, and he himself seems to be hinting that will occasionally mean the best XI won't be on the pitch and that going for the three points every game isn't the very top priority. Sometimes we win despite not playing our best XI (presuming we have one) and Hill knows, through experience, that it can be a bit of a lottery at times; refs decisions etc.
Sadly, entertainment and thinking about the fans comes a very poor third or fourth, if it all.
[Post edited 6 Dec 2015 21:41]
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I can't agree that going for the three points every game is sometimes not the priority. That's a very dangerous game to play, what sort of mindset would players have to have to perform under those circumstances? Sorry, not having that. | | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:54 - Dec 6 with 5592 views | D_Alien |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:46 - Dec 6 by TalkingSutty |
I can't agree that going for the three points every game is sometimes not the priority. That's a very dangerous game to play, what sort of mindset would players have to have to perform under those circumstances? Sorry, not having that. |
If a manager plays a young, inexperienced but potentially very talented player in a position to give them more experience, that's putting the balance of the side at risk. That's part of his thinking, and puts at slight risk the potential for gaining three points.
It's not necessarily a criticism, just a reflection on his overall remit. You yourself have commented about playing players out of position, the obvious example being Bunney at fullback. That wasn't because he thinks Bunney will make a fullback in future, but to try and give him experience of what it's like to defend in the hope it'll bring out his better attacking instincts.
It's simply a truism to say that, whilst he still expects the team to gain the three points it takes second place to bringing on players who might get the club more points and/or cash in the future.
[Post edited 6 Dec 2015 21:55]
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| Hypothetical question.. on 22:15 - Dec 6 with 5511 views | Frog |
Don't want to seem ungrateful because he's worked wonders, but I'm getting bored with the style of play and lack of spark at the moment. Yes, I watched utter crap in the past compared to where we are now but it seemed more exciting, trying to survive rather than seemingly treading water. Anyone under 45 might not understand this view. |  | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 22:16 - Dec 6 with 5511 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hypothetical question.. on 21:54 - Dec 6 by D_Alien |
If a manager plays a young, inexperienced but potentially very talented player in a position to give them more experience, that's putting the balance of the side at risk. That's part of his thinking, and puts at slight risk the potential for gaining three points.
It's not necessarily a criticism, just a reflection on his overall remit. You yourself have commented about playing players out of position, the obvious example being Bunney at fullback. That wasn't because he thinks Bunney will make a fullback in future, but to try and give him experience of what it's like to defend in the hope it'll bring out his better attacking instincts.
It's simply a truism to say that, whilst he still expects the team to gain the three points it takes second place to bringing on players who might get the club more points and/or cash in the future.
[Post edited 6 Dec 2015 21:55]
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Still not having it,soz. The three points should never take second place. Playing Bunney at left back knowing he will never make a left back is a ridiculous notion, we are talking about a live game here, supporters travel hundreds of miles to watch it.
The things you are suggesting are what should take place in training or in bounce games. Have you been on the keg DA ? | | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 22:32 - Dec 6 with 5442 views | wimborne_dale |
Is he just getting stale? |  |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 23:41 - Dec 6 with 5320 views | rochedale |
| Hypothetical question.. on 20:34 - Dec 6 by TalkingSutty |
I think he sees the fans as a hinderence and 'not worthy' and i also think he sees himself as bigger than the club, like he is doing us all a big favour. He's been allowed to act like that though. He even has the arrogance to think he can educate everybody, the bloody big head.
As a manager I like him, but that's about it. I just see him as a club employee though, like all the players, if our club wasn't paying his wages he would go somewhere else. Losing football matches always hurts the supporters the most and an FA Cup game against a local rival would never be viewed as a 'Free Hit'.
He had been recently sacked when we employed him and he is being paid a bloody good wage by the Club. In today's post match interview he ignored the question about missing out on much needed revenue and stressed how much money he had brought into the Club, that's what he is employed to do though isn't it, part of his job spec? |
If more clubs had 'managers' like Keith Hill who were in it for the 'long game' who manage the club and its finances rather than coaches who train their team, maybe teams like Stockport wouldn't be in the situation they are now.
He see's his job not just as coaching the first team, but as ensuring the teams survives in the highest possible position, sustainably, as possible.
I would love to know who you think would do a better job. |  |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 23:59 - Dec 6 with 5288 views | D_Alien |
| Hypothetical question.. on 22:16 - Dec 6 by TalkingSutty |
Still not having it,soz. The three points should never take second place. Playing Bunney at left back knowing he will never make a left back is a ridiculous notion, we are talking about a live game here, supporters travel hundreds of miles to watch it.
The things you are suggesting are what should take place in training or in bounce games. Have you been on the keg DA ? |
Soz? Or sozzled? 
I had a couple of jars while watching the game but no more than I'd normally have before a match or at half time. 12 noon on a Sunday's not my usual drinking time though!
I'm not sure you're following the line of thinking. If you accept that Hill has to bring promising young players on, it's nothing out of the ordinary to accept the simple fact that sometimes those youngsters won't be able to perform as well as an experienced pro. That happens at all levels of football, but Hill makes the point in his interview about having a remit which requires us to do so for our financial survival. It's no different to saying that selling Matty Done/Scott Hogan/Craig Dawson was a greater priority than keeping them and having a better chance of three points with them in the team. It's just a truism. | |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 00:11 - Dec 7 with 5259 views | dingdangblue |
| Hypothetical question.. on 22:32 - Dec 6 by wimborne_dale |
Is he just getting stale? |
No we lost a game on telly again. Going into today we'd just won 2 in 3 - and played superb against Port Vale. Hardly stale. |  |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 00:42 - Dec 7 with 5234 views | mikehunt |
I wonder if Keefy has been sideswiped by the lack of progresssion of the team that seemed to promise much at the end of last season. Let's face it we had a good start to this season but things have stalled and in some players' cases have regressed. How can you make contingencies for such a collective loss of form?
Cannon, for example, he used to storm forward. What's happened there? Camps hasn't progressed. One good match in three maybe? Same as last season. Hendo and Vincenti shadows of their former selves. RNL waste of a wage. And so it goes throughout the team.
I have no idea what has brought this malaise to the squad but it appears to be endemic. Even in the games we have won we have usually flattered to decieve.
I was proud of the fact that we had no loanees in our squad but was worried that any kids coming through might only be decent Lge 2 players at best. Joel Logan's demise kind of illustrates this.
It is odd that everyone seems to be affected at once. So, if it isn't down to the manager losing the plot, what can be done? A drastic clearout of the perceived dross? That would leave us with barely a team to put out so we would end up with a squad of loan players. No way to run a successful team.
Soldier on with what we have got and hope things gel again?
Or (and I hardly dare write these words) look for a new manager - nothing lasts for ever. I must state that I do not favour that option.
Today was very, very, disappointing. I think we are all hurting.
So what can we do to make things feel a little better? I would like the club to make a statement of intent to the fans (what's left of us) because people are, rightly, concerned and puzzled as to the direction of the football club. I mean why, when we are on a roll does it seem that the brakes are applied? Why do we not want to go up to the Championship? Look at Burton with their crowds. Are they sitting around thinking 'Ooh, we'd better not get promoted'?
We older types are used to not winning matches but, apart from a few notable seasons, we have generally come away from games satisfied that we have put up a fight. This season is turning into one of the aforementioned notable ones.
Anyway, if you have managed to stay to the end of my ramble, thank you. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Hypothetical question.. on 06:49 - Dec 7 with 5142 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hypothetical question.. on 23:41 - Dec 6 by rochedale |
If more clubs had 'managers' like Keith Hill who were in it for the 'long game' who manage the club and its finances rather than coaches who train their team, maybe teams like Stockport wouldn't be in the situation they are now.
He see's his job not just as coaching the first team, but as ensuring the teams survives in the highest possible position, sustainably, as possible.
I would love to know who you think would do a better job. |
My post wasn't questioning him as a manager, it was more a character assassination. If you live by the sword you die by the sword and he likes to portray himself in a certain way, so obviously he will be judged on his demeanour.
I view him as arrogant, big headed and a control freak. Somebody who seems to forget that our Club is providing him with a good living and instead struts around like the club and the fans are not worthy.
I don't know the guy and have never spent much time in his company, those views are gleaned from numerous interviews and comments over the years. That's how I have formed my opinion and plenty others see him in the same way.
Obviously, I could be completely wrong and he could be the exact opposite but i can only comment on what I see and hear. He probably wouldn't like me neither, which would be fine.
We don't all have to like each other though, his job is to get results and work to a budget and he does it very well. He is doing his job and being well rewarded for it, the club give him a good living, it's not a one way street. [Post edited 7 Dec 2015 6:50]
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| Hypothetical question.. on 07:28 - Dec 7 with 5099 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hypothetical question.. on 06:49 - Dec 7 by TalkingSutty |
My post wasn't questioning him as a manager, it was more a character assassination. If you live by the sword you die by the sword and he likes to portray himself in a certain way, so obviously he will be judged on his demeanour.
I view him as arrogant, big headed and a control freak. Somebody who seems to forget that our Club is providing him with a good living and instead struts around like the club and the fans are not worthy.
I don't know the guy and have never spent much time in his company, those views are gleaned from numerous interviews and comments over the years. That's how I have formed my opinion and plenty others see him in the same way.
Obviously, I could be completely wrong and he could be the exact opposite but i can only comment on what I see and hear. He probably wouldn't like me neither, which would be fine.
We don't all have to like each other though, his job is to get results and work to a budget and he does it very well. He is doing his job and being well rewarded for it, the club give him a good living, it's not a one way street. [Post edited 7 Dec 2015 6:50]
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My posts in this thread are in response to Jimmy Ruslers original post, which questioned how we view Hills personality. It's not supposed to be a question of his managerial/ tactical nous. | | | |
| Hypothetical question.. on 12:14 - Dec 7 with 4959 views | JimmyRustler |
| Hypothetical question.. on 06:49 - Dec 7 by TalkingSutty |
My post wasn't questioning him as a manager, it was more a character assassination. If you live by the sword you die by the sword and he likes to portray himself in a certain way, so obviously he will be judged on his demeanour.
I view him as arrogant, big headed and a control freak. Somebody who seems to forget that our Club is providing him with a good living and instead struts around like the club and the fans are not worthy.
I don't know the guy and have never spent much time in his company, those views are gleaned from numerous interviews and comments over the years. That's how I have formed my opinion and plenty others see him in the same way.
Obviously, I could be completely wrong and he could be the exact opposite but i can only comment on what I see and hear. He probably wouldn't like me neither, which would be fine.
We don't all have to like each other though, his job is to get results and work to a budget and he does it very well. He is doing his job and being well rewarded for it, the club give him a good living, it's not a one way street. [Post edited 7 Dec 2015 6:50]
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It's not even a case of needing to like the man, he just needs to show the supporters and the club a bit more respect. He's so condescending it's untrue and due to his history with us, he seems to think he can get away with saying or doing whatever he pleases. He needs to wake up and smell the coffee and realise that the fans aren't his enemies and that they actually want him to do well. [Post edited 7 Dec 2015 13:18]
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