| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year 09:11 - Apr 21 with 5222 views | YouTubeDale |
Great bottom line result for the Dale moving net profit to £1356k from a loss of £447k the year before. Remember, these results are up to May 2017. It was the Hogan move to Villa making the massive difference.
Transfer fees up from £105k to £2166k
Gate receipts up from £842k to £943k
League income up from £1087k to £1423k underlining the need to keep in League 1.
In all the detail I noticed programme costs were £32k but generated a mere £12k in sales. Perhaps the day of the programme is over if we are making a £20k loss . [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 9:19]
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 09:30 - Apr 21 with 5118 views | TVOS1907 |
Obviously I have a vested interest in that final figure, which simply doesn't add up.
At £3 per programme, it suggests around 4000 sales. There were 24 full programmes last season (23 league, plus Huddersfield in the FA Cup), as well as various smaller issues, but let's just stick to the 24 full issues.
4000/24 = 166 copies per game!!!!
There were at least 1000 sold v Huddersfield, so take out that £3000 and you're left with about 130 copies per league game.
The £12,000 also includes ground and programme advertising, so remove that and the copies sold per game is even lower.
I know for a fact the sales figures are nowhere near such a low amount, so the £12,000 simply makes no sense.
I've already raised this issue with the club and will be meeting with them to discuss it further. I'll be taking my calculator! |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:04 - Apr 21 with 5011 views | YouTubeDale |
Abacus versus calculator.
Fight.Fight.Fight. | |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:15 - Apr 21 with 4986 views | judd |
Is the Ratcliffe Arms making owt? |  |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:21 - Apr 21 with 4966 views | SaxonDale |
Sorry if I missed this last year, but how did we make nearly a half million pound loss?
Whilst it is great that the Hogan move has put us in profit for this year, we can't expect them sort of sales to be happening too regularly.
*Edit- Just remembered the Stadium purchase. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 10:26]
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:26 - Apr 21 with 4943 views | D_Alien |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 09:30 - Apr 21 by TVOS1907 |
Obviously I have a vested interest in that final figure, which simply doesn't add up.
At £3 per programme, it suggests around 4000 sales. There were 24 full programmes last season (23 league, plus Huddersfield in the FA Cup), as well as various smaller issues, but let's just stick to the 24 full issues.
4000/24 = 166 copies per game!!!!
There were at least 1000 sold v Huddersfield, so take out that £3000 and you're left with about 130 copies per league game.
The £12,000 also includes ground and programme advertising, so remove that and the copies sold per game is even lower.
I know for a fact the sales figures are nowhere near such a low amount, so the £12,000 simply makes no sense.
I've already raised this issue with the club and will be meeting with them to discuss it further. I'll be taking my calculator! |
And don't forget your spreadsheet
Good luck! |  |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:27 - Apr 21 with 4936 views | ColDale |
The Hogan cash was reported to be coming in three lump sums, the second of which was January. As a non accountancy type, would all three have been recorded in these figures or will each one be recorded upon delivery? |  | | |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:43 - Apr 21 with 4875 views | isitme |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:27 - Apr 21 by ColDale |
The Hogan cash was reported to be coming in three lump sums, the second of which was January. As a non accountancy type, would all three have been recorded in these figures or will each one be recorded upon delivery? |
On a profit and loss account it will only report income during that financial year. Therefore additional payments will appear on the accounts for the year in which they are received. |  | | |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:45 - Apr 21 with 4868 views | YouTubeDale |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:15 - Apr 21 by judd |
Is the Ratcliffe Arms making owt? |
Ignoring the change in stock as we don’t know that...
Income down from £157k to £108k.
Overheads down from £63k to £33k.
Cost of purchases down from £68k to £42k.
Hence, on the face of it, profit up from £26k to £33k. | |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:57 - Apr 21 with 4830 views | YouTubeDale |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:27 - Apr 21 by ColDale |
The Hogan cash was reported to be coming in three lump sums, the second of which was January. As a non accountancy type, would all three have been recorded in these figures or will each one be recorded upon delivery? |
Sorry, already answered. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 11:00]
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:09 - Apr 21 with 4802 views | YouTubeDale |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:21 - Apr 21 by SaxonDale |
Sorry if I missed this last year, but how did we make nearly a half million pound loss?
Whilst it is great that the Hogan move has put us in profit for this year, we can't expect them sort of sales to be happening too regularly.
*Edit- Just remembered the Stadium purchase. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 10:26]
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The stadium purchase is a balance sheet item, not a profit and loss issue, so that is not the answer.
To be paid for over a number of years.
As noted in the OP, the player transfer income was low and that was the key factor in 2016. Our costs remained relatively high against our income. | |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:34 - Apr 21 with 4711 views | Ninco |
I used to edit a magazine, and it is not unusual to show a loss.
As an example, if you sell the magazine for £1, you budget for printing costs of £1.50 meaning you can have more pages and colour in it. You lose 50% but you make that back via the advertisers so you should cover your costs.
The trouble is, advertisers pay annually, from January to January, and the accounts run from April to April, so adverts in the current edition wouldn't necessarily show in the accounts for this year as they would have been paid for before those accounts were produced and would show on the previous year's accounts. Therefore although it shows as a loss, the previous year's accounts should show as a profit because you would have had the advertising money then.
Lets also not forget that hospitality, press, players, advertisers etc, all probably get a free programme, so there's a bit of a loss and any left over copies have to be paid for. Also, they may have paid for programmes for games that were postponed, but they were not sold in time to affect the accounts because of the lateness of the game being played. |  | | |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:40 - Apr 21 with 4673 views | judd |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:09 - Apr 21 by YouTubeDale |
The stadium purchase is a balance sheet item, not a profit and loss issue, so that is not the answer.
To be paid for over a number of years.
As noted in the OP, the player transfer income was low and that was the key factor in 2016. Our costs remained relatively high against our income. |
Average number of employees was 88 | |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:42 - Apr 21 with 4671 views | isitme |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:09 - Apr 21 by YouTubeDale |
The stadium purchase is a balance sheet item, not a profit and loss issue, so that is not the answer.
To be paid for over a number of years.
As noted in the OP, the player transfer income was low and that was the key factor in 2016. Our costs remained relatively high against our income. |
Any money spent during that financial year on purchasing the stadium would still have to be accounted for on the profit and loss account as it is a form of expenditure.
The stadium will appear on the balance sheet as an asset and any money still owing on it would be a liability. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 11:43]
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:44 - Apr 21 with 4652 views | TVOS1907 |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:34 - Apr 21 by Ninco |
I used to edit a magazine, and it is not unusual to show a loss.
As an example, if you sell the magazine for £1, you budget for printing costs of £1.50 meaning you can have more pages and colour in it. You lose 50% but you make that back via the advertisers so you should cover your costs.
The trouble is, advertisers pay annually, from January to January, and the accounts run from April to April, so adverts in the current edition wouldn't necessarily show in the accounts for this year as they would have been paid for before those accounts were produced and would show on the previous year's accounts. Therefore although it shows as a loss, the previous year's accounts should show as a profit because you would have had the advertising money then.
Lets also not forget that hospitality, press, players, advertisers etc, all probably get a free programme, so there's a bit of a loss and any left over copies have to be paid for. Also, they may have paid for programmes for games that were postponed, but they were not sold in time to affect the accounts because of the lateness of the game being played. |
It's totally different in football as the adverts are seasonal, not January-January, so the figures by and large cover a season.
There was only one rearranged game (Port Vale) after 1st April last year, so that will hardly make any difference.
The printers always supply about 100 free programmes, so that covers the copies for players, press, officials, etc.
Sponsors have indirectly paid for their programme via their sponsorship fee, so while their contribution might not be the full £3, it's still a contribution.
I know nationally print media isn't as popular as it once was - obviously due to the internet - but regardless of all the above, the figures shown in the accounts simply do not add up. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 11:48]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 11:46 - Apr 21 with 4635 views | sandy_dale |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 10:15 - Apr 21 by judd |
Is the Ratcliffe Arms making owt? |
Probably not. The running of it is a shambles. What football club pub isn’t open after th game and doesn’t regularly put cask ale on. |  | | |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 22:53 - Apr 21 with 3890 views | oddjob007 |
Being pretty well qualified in this area.. certificates and everything... few things I’d like to correct above (in fairly random order)
1. Any purchase of the stadium will not be reflected in the P&L. This is a cash expenditure to buy an asset. The only financial statements that are affected here are the balance sheet and cash flow statement.
2. Hogan cash. Having not seen the accounts and associated notes, difficult to comment. Assume any transfer revenue that does not relate to a specific period in the future, but rather a point in time, would be recognised in the P&L as a single revenue value, regardless of when cash is received.
3. Programmes. Value in kind. For any programmes that are either received or given the club should/could be recognising a revenue value, but also an exact corresponding cost value. For example, if the club were to give away 100 programmes for hospitiality, they would be able to specifically recognise the revenue from those programmes, but also an equal cost value. It’s a naughty way of boosting revenues, but having not seen the accounts, unsure if we are smart enough to do that. A lot of the big clubs will do it when they receive products or services as part of a sponsorship agreement. [Post edited 21 Apr 2018 22:54]
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 23:56 - Apr 21 with 3753 views | Dalenet |
I am a bit worried about this. So in a year where we take £2.2m in transfer fees we make £1.4m. Without transfer fees we had a trading loss of almost £800k. That is significantly worse than the previous years loss.
If we go down to Lge 2 we will lose a further £400k in league revenue. So unless I am reading it wrong we could have a trading loss of over £1m in the next accounts (before any cup monies) that would need to result in the slashing of budgets at some point. After all we are not Bury | | | |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 00:31 - Apr 22 with 3696 views | Daley_Lama |
Cut your cloth according to your size.
Never don’t worry, but rest easy in a chairman who you know and trust. |  |
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| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 17:24 - Apr 22 with 3172 views | YouTubeDale |
| Dale make a £1.4million profit last year on 23:56 - Apr 21 by Dalenet |
I am a bit worried about this. So in a year where we take £2.2m in transfer fees we make £1.4m. Without transfer fees we had a trading loss of almost £800k. That is significantly worse than the previous years loss.
If we go down to Lge 2 we will lose a further £400k in league revenue. So unless I am reading it wrong we could have a trading loss of over £1m in the next accounts (before any cup monies) that would need to result in the slashing of budgets at some point. After all we are not Bury |
You are spot on with your concern of underlaying costs possibly getting out of hand and I did consider this spin on the results when I did my OP.
Again it underlines the importance of transfer monies into the club, which allows us to splash out. | |
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