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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 21:54 - Nov 30 by rochdale_ranger
THis threads turned into quite a juicy one. The people at Bletchley Park should be lauded it’s a shame about the Cold War otherwise they could have been celebrated in their lifetimes. It was also a disgrace how Alan Turing was treated and if I was him I would have probably defected to the Soviet Union rather then receiving chemical castration or prison for homosexuality (but we mustn’t judge to harshly as they were different times). Mings reaction and shrugging it off as a minor achievement aided by Poland isn’t surprising he’s one of many anti British posters on here one of whom used British colonialism as an excuse for the Pakistani grooming gangs in town.
Now personally knowing what went on in the Soviet Union and the Ukraine under Stalin I regard communism and nazism as two totalitarian, corrupt, anti individual cheeks of the same putrid arse. We should of let the Germans have at the Soviets. We got nothing out of declaring war with Germany. And as D-alien pointed out we are still paying for it today.
Or better still Britain and France should have never have put such harsh terms on Germany in the treaty of Versailles. Demilitarisation, occupying the Rhine, taking material and natural resources out of Germany. Perfect ingredients for a despot like Hitler to sprout.
You're putting at lot of words into my mouth there matey. Nobody is saying the work at Bletcheley Park wasn't a terrific achievement but it's a fact, wether you like it or not, that the Poles did a lot of vital work in the early days of the Enigma story.
As for " colonialism being an excuse for Pakistani gangs " ? How does that work ? You must be confusing me with someone else.
The rest of your post is the usual extreme right wing crypto facist rubbish.
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 10:46 - Dec 1 with 2376 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 09:38 - Dec 1 by D_Alien
I'm not concerned about the narratives of any particular historian; they each have their own points of reference. Learned? Tch
What does concern me is why you think we should feel beholden to the EU and the US. If we'd succumbed to the German war machine in 1940-42, there would be no EU, a point you blithely ignore. The US joined the conflict out of self-interest, not in our support, and their supplies previous to that were paid for - and are still being paid for - but not just in monetary terms. Those on the Atlantic convoys, which the Enigma codebreakers prevented from being overwhelmed, paid with their blood. We stood alone in western Europe, before the German pact with Russia broke down. Were we lucky that the Russians and US came into it? They had no choice after being attacked themselves
Trying to score cheap points about my "acknowledging" the contribution of allies is unworthy. Never forget that your freedom to do so was secured by previous generations, and no point I've made is incorrect. We owe it to them to get it right
[Post edited 1 Dec 2018 9:42]
To the Victor the Spoils - including the right to write the history.
It then just takes time for reality to catch up. "We stood alone in western Europe". No we didn't.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that i'm unaware of the role played by Commonwealth and other nationalities involved in the early days of the war
Let me put you straight - since you haven't yet cottoned on to the fact i don't need to "acknowledge" that they did
My godfather was Ukrainian. He arrived in England during the early days of the war and was engaged in the war effort. He later married an English lass, my aunt. I learnt a good deal first hand from him about the role played by many different nationalities. All were enabled to do so due to the fact of Britain STANDING ALONE in western Europe, providing a focal point around which they could regroup (many having lost their homeland) and for which he was eternally grateful
Now, if you don't mind, i'll get on with enjoying the freedom to which they all contributed
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 19:10 - Dec 1 by D_Alien
You seem to be under the misapprehension that i'm unaware of the role played by Commonwealth and other nationalities involved in the early days of the war
Let me put you straight - since you haven't yet cottoned on to the fact i don't need to "acknowledge" that they did
My godfather was Ukrainian. He arrived in England during the early days of the war and was engaged in the war effort. He later married an English lass, my aunt. I learnt a good deal first hand from him about the role played by many different nationalities. All were enabled to do so due to the fact of Britain STANDING ALONE in western Europe, providing a focal point around which they could regroup (many having lost their homeland) and for which he was eternally grateful
Now, if you don't mind, i'll get on with enjoying the freedom to which they all contributed
[Post edited 1 Dec 2018 19:12]
Extending the helpful and/or conciliatory tones that I have sought to adopt on other threads this morning, I will forego a critique of your response, saving you the necessity to issue a critique of my response etc etc, and acknowledge that we have differing views on this matter that won't be resolved over three/four paragraph long tit-for-tat posts on this forum.
Let's go out with a song...
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 10:36 - Dec 2 with 2182 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 07:32 - Dec 2 by smaclad1
Extending the helpful and/or conciliatory tones that I have sought to adopt on other threads this morning, I will forego a critique of your response, saving you the necessity to issue a critique of my response etc etc, and acknowledge that we have differing views on this matter that won't be resolved over three/four paragraph long tit-for-tat posts on this forum.
Let's go out with a song...
A conciliatory tone is always welcome, but would've come much sooner if you'd realised you were trying to argue a point i was only too well aware of. Just a thought. Have a good 'un.
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 10:36 - Dec 2 by D_Alien
A conciliatory tone is always welcome, but would've come much sooner if you'd realised you were trying to argue a point i was only too well aware of. Just a thought. Have a good 'un.
Thank you. Once I realised we were using a different definition of the word 'alone' and were struggling to reach a common understanding of the concept of 'allies', I thought it best to try and knock the debate on the head.
And thanks, I did have a good 'un. Due to the unprecedented efficiency of public transport I found myself in the Regal Moon by 10am well ahead of schedule to enjoy a good day out (save for the seemingly obligatory hour and a half that always seem to come along with extended days out/occasional weekends away supporting the Dale).
As an aside, just after 10 I was joined briefly in the Regal by a Dale supporting acquaintance who had popped in for a quick half and a coffee...before going to Hebden Bridge for pre-match drinks!
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 21:35 - Dec 3 with 2001 views
Ffs, WW2 were won by England's ability to drink char and dunk biscuits baked by the WI with charcoaled lines drawn up their legs by randy spivs in the hope of meeting a nylon-tights clad yank who might get them an introduction to Bletchley Park in order to garner a polished BBC accent and so to hack Lord Hawhaws podcast with that bloody awful Warsaw Concerto. Yours, A. Respected-Historian BA(Cantab),.MA (phil) LLB (your hons) VC (bar) 25 yards Cassie baths (with cycling proficiency).
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 21:35 - Dec 3 by judd
Ffs, WW2 were won by England's ability to drink char and dunk biscuits baked by the WI with charcoaled lines drawn up their legs by randy spivs in the hope of meeting a nylon-tights clad yank who might get them an introduction to Bletchley Park in order to garner a polished BBC accent and so to hack Lord Hawhaws podcast with that bloody awful Warsaw Concerto. Yours, A. Respected-Historian BA(Cantab),.MA (phil) LLB (your hons) VC (bar) 25 yards Cassie baths (with cycling proficiency).
Just found this fascinating documentary about a key battle in WW2 I'm sure you'll be interested in.
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 08:09 - Dec 4 with 1887 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 21:35 - Dec 3 by judd
Ffs, WW2 were won by England's ability to drink char and dunk biscuits baked by the WI with charcoaled lines drawn up their legs by randy spivs in the hope of meeting a nylon-tights clad yank who might get them an introduction to Bletchley Park in order to garner a polished BBC accent and so to hack Lord Hawhaws podcast with that bloody awful Warsaw Concerto. Yours, A. Respected-Historian BA(Cantab),.MA (phil) LLB (your hons) VC (bar) 25 yards Cassie baths (with cycling proficiency).
Cassie baths ………………. sigh. Just seems like yesterday.
I know...I remember going to Cassie baths every Friday morning from St Johns with a groaning old bus that took about 25 minutes getting there and ten minutes getting back...... The place seemed old and decrepit then! Mind you, for games we had to walk to Lenny Barn to get changed in an old green hut!
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 17:48 - Dec 4 with 1741 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 17:43 - Dec 4 by EllDale
I know...I remember going to Cassie baths every Friday morning from St Johns with a groaning old bus that took about 25 minutes getting there and ten minutes getting back...... The place seemed old and decrepit then! Mind you, for games we had to walk to Lenny Barn to get changed in an old green hut!
I could walk there from our house in 5 minutes. Well ….. run in those days ……. I drank more p!ss and chlorine in there than I care to imagine. At least I can afford a better quality of beverage "on the p!ss" now.
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 21:35 - Dec 3 by judd
Ffs, WW2 were won by England's ability to drink char and dunk biscuits baked by the WI with charcoaled lines drawn up their legs by randy spivs in the hope of meeting a nylon-tights clad yank who might get them an introduction to Bletchley Park in order to garner a polished BBC accent and so to hack Lord Hawhaws podcast with that bloody awful Warsaw Concerto. Yours, A. Respected-Historian BA(Cantab),.MA (phil) LLB (your hons) VC (bar) 25 yards Cassie baths (with cycling proficiency).
Impressive qualifications Judd but Ive got everything you've got plus a bronze in ballroom dancing and that's not to mention my scout badges. Any roads this is why we won the war step forward Ernest Scribbler.
This is not the time for bickering.
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 02:45 - Dec 5 with 1617 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 06:58 - Dec 1 by smaclad1
You said "when no-one else was fighting" in your earlier post. I pointed out that this was not so and that we had the Commonwealth countries, exiled armed forces and tacit US support.
You have now come back acknowledging the contribution of allied forces (thanks for agreeing with my response). Yet because this acknowledgement of allied support knocks on the head all this 'we stood alone' nonsense you're interpreting this as my dismissal of our effort?
I'm not suggesting that a few random observations on a football supporters' message board are in any way comparable to the learned thoughts of the esteemed historian AJP Taylor, but it does seem that this country holds a particular collective narrative about the second world war and the role of Britain in it, and that anyone who expresses what might be regarded as a slightly different interpretation gets jumped on.
quote... "If you tell a lie big enough and repeat it often enough it will be believed"
Countries that formed the allies in WW2... At the start of the war on 1 September 1939, the Allies consisted of France, Poland and the United Kingdom, as well as their dependent states, such as British India. Within days they were joined by the independent Dominions of the British Commonwealth: Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. After the start of the German invasion of North Europe until the Balkan Campaign, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, and Yugoslavia joined the Allies. After first having cooperated with Germany in invading Poland whilst remaining neutral in the Allied-Axis conflict, the Soviet Union perforce joined the Allies in June 1941 after being invaded by Germany. The United States provided war materiel and money all along, and officially joined in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. China had already been in a prolonged war with Japan since the Marco Polo Bridge Incident of 1937, but officially joined the Allies in 1941.
To suggest that Britain stood alone at anytime during WW2 is simply not supported by the facts.
[Post edited 5 Dec 2018 6:56]
This is not the time for bickering.
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 08:06 - Dec 5 with 1564 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 02:45 - Dec 5 by kiwidale
quote... "If you tell a lie big enough and repeat it often enough it will be believed"
Countries that formed the allies in WW2... At the start of the war on 1 September 1939, the Allies consisted of France, Poland and the United Kingdom, as well as their dependent states, such as British India. Within days they were joined by the independent Dominions of the British Commonwealth: Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. After the start of the German invasion of North Europe until the Balkan Campaign, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, and Yugoslavia joined the Allies. After first having cooperated with Germany in invading Poland whilst remaining neutral in the Allied-Axis conflict, the Soviet Union perforce joined the Allies in June 1941 after being invaded by Germany. The United States provided war materiel and money all along, and officially joined in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. China had already been in a prolonged war with Japan since the Marco Polo Bridge Incident of 1937, but officially joined the Allies in 1941.
To suggest that Britain stood alone at anytime during WW2 is simply not supported by the facts.
[Post edited 5 Dec 2018 6:56]
Heretic.
There was a Friday in December, 1939, when no one else turned up.
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 20:11 - Dec 4 by kiwidale
Impressive qualifications Judd but Ive got everything you've got plus a bronze in ballroom dancing and that's not to mention my scout badges. Any roads this is why we won the war step forward Ernest Scribbler.
.... but can you twerk?
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Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 13:04 - Dec 5 with 1476 views
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 02:45 - Dec 5 by kiwidale
quote... "If you tell a lie big enough and repeat it often enough it will be believed"
Countries that formed the allies in WW2... At the start of the war on 1 September 1939, the Allies consisted of France, Poland and the United Kingdom, as well as their dependent states, such as British India. Within days they were joined by the independent Dominions of the British Commonwealth: Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa. After the start of the German invasion of North Europe until the Balkan Campaign, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, and Yugoslavia joined the Allies. After first having cooperated with Germany in invading Poland whilst remaining neutral in the Allied-Axis conflict, the Soviet Union perforce joined the Allies in June 1941 after being invaded by Germany. The United States provided war materiel and money all along, and officially joined in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. China had already been in a prolonged war with Japan since the Marco Polo Bridge Incident of 1937, but officially joined the Allies in 1941.
To suggest that Britain stood alone at anytime during WW2 is simply not supported by the facts.
[Post edited 5 Dec 2018 6:56]
Read further down the thread kiwi - smaclad eventually understood it was a non-argument
You're like someone arriving at a party when everyone else is leaving
Either David Platt was on my Easyjet flight back from Milano this afty or his double was. So I guess either times are hard for him and he's slumming it on lo-cost carriers like the rest of us or it just wasn't him. Apropos of nothing (more or less). And as I got the train back to the airport, I don't know if the Itis charge to drop off, but getting into T3 wasn't as bad on Monday morning.
Drop off charges at Manchester Airport on 23:16 - Dec 5 by D_Alien
We can smell your obsequiousness from here
Ah! Alien I've got it now... anybody who agrees with somebody that thinks you are full of shit is automatically oleaginous... Do you hear voices? I bet they agree with you... merry christmas while I'm at it.