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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:36 - Dec 6 by rochdaleriddler
They will go for a new leader, I assume you mean the last election , hardly a comprehensive beating, it led to where we are today
No, the no confidence vote in Labour to remove him from his leadership in 2016. In which Labour voted 172-40 in favour of no confidence. Granted, Labour's votes aren't binding as the ones in the Tory's no confidence votes are but that was pretty damning and then hypocritical of him to say May should resign after she won one within her party.
Corbyn won 4 more seats in 2017 than Brown did in 2010. Brown was completely unelectable and Corbyn was coming up against one of the worst election campaigns in history. It's hardly the great result some Labour supporter's would have you believe.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:12 - Dec 6 with 1525 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:43 - Dec 6 by TheBeast666
Not enough time to give a full response FP as am going out but quickly, the EU , in my opinion , has morphed from a trade alliance towards a political federation of European states that benefit big business and financial institutions, particularly in Germany who bankroll other countries but lock them into trade deals thaytonly benefit German companies. Other countries, such as Ireland plunder the EU treasure chest hugely and have grown wealthy on the back of it , however UK is a huge net contributor to theses funds, we only get a fraction back and this is tied to initiatives that are not priority ones nationally, so we would be financially better off and also able to forge free trade agreements around the world. The EU needs us more than we need them , our wages are too high to make us ultra competitive so it benefits other countries more than the UK, add to this the political corruptness of EU institutions and EU law trumping UK law, then to me its a clear cut case to leave. Short term pain for long term gain is my democratic view. I could add much more but thats for another time.
Zero, I repeat zero, understanding of the way world markets work my friend. Enjoy your night out.
ColonelHall
1
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:26 - Dec 6 with 1485 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:09 - Dec 6 by finberty
So you disagree with him.
That makes him a tit in your eyes?
Let's look at what The Beast said:
- 'morphed from a trade alliance towards a political federation of European states'.
This is factually evident from such nonsense as an EU Army, EU Anthem, EU President etc. Otherwise, the Common Market as it stood would have remained. It's changed. Didn't you see it happening? Maastricht? Lisbon?
- 'benefit big business and financial institutions, particularly in Germany who bankroll other countries but lock them into trade deals that only benefit German companies'.
I think it's difficult to argue that the German economy benefits most from all the EU economies. Whether such deals 'only' benefit Germany is debatable.
- 'Other countries, such as Ireland plunder the EU treasure chest hugely'.
It's an inescapable fact that Ireland was bailed out and UK was a major contributor. Whether 'plunder' is the correct term is very doubtful. The bale-out will have been requested, offered and paid. It does however cast a light on Varadkar's opposition to Brexit, although the acknowledgement of UK's role took some time to be made by him.
- 'UK is a huge net contributor to theses funds, we only get a fraction back'.
This is factually correct. Or, as Benitez many times said - 'fact'. Blair ensured we got less back than before when he signed-away much of the rebate.
- 'this is tied to initiatives that are not priority ones nationally'.
Can't comment.
- 'we would be financially better off and also able to forge free trade agreements around the world'.
That seems to be the aim, because we will not be contributing as much into the EU aside from existing obligations which cannot be dodged. Whether we can forge new deals remains to be seen.
- 'The EU needs us more than we need them'.
Financially yes. Who is the net buyer and who is the net seller?
- 'political corruptness of EU institutions and EU law trumping UK law'
Yes, how are those published EU accounts coming along after all these years?
Yes.
I'm a bad man.
Boring and yes an EU army, why not.
The idea.
Ireland/banks all over that were bailed out. What is your point?
Listen Finberty, mate, and The Beast, arf, the ref was a nightmare idea and the UK does not wanna be alone in the scheme of things. Terry T yes, very funny.
ColonelHall
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 16:20 - Dec 6 with 1380 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:09 - Dec 6 by finberty
So you disagree with him.
That makes him a tit in your eyes?
Let's look at what The Beast said:
- 'morphed from a trade alliance towards a political federation of European states'.
This is factually evident from such nonsense as an EU Army, EU Anthem, EU President etc. Otherwise, the Common Market as it stood would have remained. It's changed. Didn't you see it happening? Maastricht? Lisbon?
- 'benefit big business and financial institutions, particularly in Germany who bankroll other countries but lock them into trade deals that only benefit German companies'.
I think it's difficult to argue that the German economy benefits most from all the EU economies. Whether such deals 'only' benefit Germany is debatable.
- 'Other countries, such as Ireland plunder the EU treasure chest hugely'.
It's an inescapable fact that Ireland was bailed out and UK was a major contributor. Whether 'plunder' is the correct term is very doubtful. The bale-out will have been requested, offered and paid. It does however cast a light on Varadkar's opposition to Brexit, although the acknowledgement of UK's role took some time to be made by him.
- 'UK is a huge net contributor to theses funds, we only get a fraction back'.
This is factually correct. Or, as Benitez many times said - 'fact'. Blair ensured we got less back than before when he signed-away much of the rebate.
- 'this is tied to initiatives that are not priority ones nationally'.
Can't comment.
- 'we would be financially better off and also able to forge free trade agreements around the world'.
That seems to be the aim, because we will not be contributing as much into the EU aside from existing obligations which cannot be dodged. Whether we can forge new deals remains to be seen.
- 'The EU needs us more than we need them'.
Financially yes. Who is the net buyer and who is the net seller?
- 'political corruptness of EU institutions and EU law trumping UK law'
Yes, how are those published EU accounts coming along after all these years?
Supero tedious reply old sport. And not in any way at all pertaining to actual business as we do it on the ground.
Am not quite sure your angle. I think it may be down to sheer tiredness.
So, if I can decipher your babble, you have a beef with the Eurozone, and where that's at?
ColonelHall
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 16:21 - Dec 6 with 1375 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 16:06 - Dec 6 by FalingeParka
Yes.
I'm a bad man.
Boring and yes an EU army, why not.
The idea.
Ireland/banks all over that were bailed out. What is your point?
Listen Finberty, mate, and The Beast, arf, the ref was a nightmare idea and the UK does not wanna be alone in the scheme of things. Terry T yes, very funny.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:10 - Dec 6 by Rochdale_ger
Working class folks won’t have to compete with people from Eastern Europe for jobs.
True, they'll have sole rights to any exploitative, zero hours, unskilled, slave labour job left in the UK after Boris has sold off what's left of the 'family silver' & his mates in USA corporations have creamed off the profits.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 15:09 - Dec 6 by finberty
So you disagree with him.
That makes him a tit in your eyes?
Let's look at what The Beast said:
- 'morphed from a trade alliance towards a political federation of European states'.
This is factually evident from such nonsense as an EU Army, EU Anthem, EU President etc. Otherwise, the Common Market as it stood would have remained. It's changed. Didn't you see it happening? Maastricht? Lisbon?
- 'benefit big business and financial institutions, particularly in Germany who bankroll other countries but lock them into trade deals that only benefit German companies'.
I think it's difficult to argue that the German economy benefits most from all the EU economies. Whether such deals 'only' benefit Germany is debatable.
- 'Other countries, such as Ireland plunder the EU treasure chest hugely'.
It's an inescapable fact that Ireland was bailed out and UK was a major contributor. Whether 'plunder' is the correct term is very doubtful. The bale-out will have been requested, offered and paid. It does however cast a light on Varadkar's opposition to Brexit, although the acknowledgement of UK's role took some time to be made by him.
- 'UK is a huge net contributor to theses funds, we only get a fraction back'.
This is factually correct. Or, as Benitez many times said - 'fact'. Blair ensured we got less back than before when he signed-away much of the rebate.
- 'this is tied to initiatives that are not priority ones nationally'.
Can't comment.
- 'we would be financially better off and also able to forge free trade agreements around the world'.
That seems to be the aim, because we will not be contributing as much into the EU aside from existing obligations which cannot be dodged. Whether we can forge new deals remains to be seen.
- 'The EU needs us more than we need them'.
Financially yes. Who is the net buyer and who is the net seller?
- 'political corruptness of EU institutions and EU law trumping UK law'
Yes, how are those published EU accounts coming along after all these years?
A fair, balanced analysis. The aim of the EEC/EU was always ever-closer union - it's in the text of the 1957 Treaty of Rome that founded the EEC (Thatcher missed that); big business & financial institutions benefiting isn't unique to the EEC; Our banks got far more bail-outs than Ireland's. The money we get back is for the poorest communities in our country - they're certainly not a priority for the Tories (unless bribing them for votes). 'Whether we can forge new deals remains to be seen' - key point; the only certainty is that any we do get will be scourged on the backs of the poor.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:11 - Dec 6 by tony_roch975
True, they'll have sole rights to any exploitative, zero hours, unskilled, slave labour job left in the UK after Boris has sold off what's left of the 'family silver' & his mates in USA corporations have creamed off the profits.
I’m a tradesman I work on building sites every day. A plaster boarder will earn £180 a day? A Romanian plaster boarder will work for £40-£60 pound a day. Im not anti EU because of some weird dislike for foreigners I’m a more anti Eu for reasons that Jeremy Corbyn is. Look at the way Greece has been treated.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:35 - Dec 6 with 1247 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:31 - Dec 6 by Rochdale_ger
I’m a tradesman I work on building sites every day. A plaster boarder will earn £180 a day? A Romanian plaster boarder will work for £40-£60 pound a day. Im not anti EU because of some weird dislike for foreigners I’m a more anti Eu for reasons that Jeremy Corbyn is. Look at the way Greece has been treated.
Who decides the wage - you, the Romanian plaster boarder or the boss! There's lots to criticise about the EU (it is another bosses cartel) but when it comes to workers rights (yours or the Romanian) there's one guarantee - division of workers mean the bosses win, solidarity and strong Trades Unions is the answer. Get your enemy clear in your sights - it's the rich and powerful not the fellow worker.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:39 - Dec 6 by tony_roch975
Who decides the wage - you, the Romanian plaster boarder or the boss! There's lots to criticise about the EU (it is another bosses cartel) but when it comes to workers rights (yours or the Romanian) there's one guarantee - division of workers mean the bosses win, solidarity and strong Trades Unions is the answer. Get your enemy clear in your sights - it's the rich and powerful not the fellow worker.
Trades Unions are done Tony. It’s not the 70’s or the 80’s anymore. And the market decides the wages and flooding the market with people who are willing to work for less then the going rate hasn’t been a good thing. Working class people went out and got behind Brexit in a way they have never got behind anything before, Corbyn could have been true to his instincts and embraced Brexit instead he had been impartial on it to keep the Hillary benns of his party on side and the rest of the red conservatives.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:59 - Dec 6 with 1204 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:46 - Dec 6 by Rochdale_ger
Trades Unions are done Tony. It’s not the 70’s or the 80’s anymore. And the market decides the wages and flooding the market with people who are willing to work for less then the going rate hasn’t been a good thing. Working class people went out and got behind Brexit in a way they have never got behind anything before, Corbyn could have been true to his instincts and embraced Brexit instead he had been impartial on it to keep the Hillary benns of his party on side and the rest of the red conservatives.
Very fair points, Brexit has been hijacked by the right - there is a left wing version which never got aired; as you rightly say Corbyn was emasculated by the New Labour rump and the chance for Labour to lead a working class revolt against the elite was lost. Blair's biggest failing was not reversing Thatcher's anti-Union legislation but, in my dotage, I won't give up hope that workers can still use their one bargaining chip (of withdrawing their labour) to offset the control of the elite.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:59 - Dec 6 by tony_roch975
Very fair points, Brexit has been hijacked by the right - there is a left wing version which never got aired; as you rightly say Corbyn was emasculated by the New Labour rump and the chance for Labour to lead a working class revolt against the elite was lost. Blair's biggest failing was not reversing Thatcher's anti-Union legislation but, in my dotage, I won't give up hope that workers can still use their one bargaining chip (of withdrawing their labour) to offset the control of the elite.
I remember lefties talking about LEXIT and plenty of honest and decent people on the left campaigning for Brexit such as George Galloway and Kate hoey. They have been treated disgracefully by prominent remainers and activists.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 18:17 - Dec 6 with 1177 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 17:59 - Dec 6 by tony_roch975
Very fair points, Brexit has been hijacked by the right - there is a left wing version which never got aired; as you rightly say Corbyn was emasculated by the New Labour rump and the chance for Labour to lead a working class revolt against the elite was lost. Blair's biggest failing was not reversing Thatcher's anti-Union legislation but, in my dotage, I won't give up hope that workers can still use their one bargaining chip (of withdrawing their labour) to offset the control of the elite.
Surely labour can be classed as right wing for all the anti semitism in its party ???
Or had it all been made up in your perfect labour world. Funny how everything you disagree with is suddenly right wing !!!!
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