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Perspetives 15:15 - Feb 12 with 1098 viewssomdale

I hear a fair few people saying they are bored at watching The Dale and wish we tried to push on.
Id like to add a bit of perspective to this.
If you looked right now at the championship table the league positions match identically the average attendance, so its fair to say that gate size does matter, the lowest average attendances belongs to Wigan and Luton at 10,000 each.
We find ourselves in the same division as former Premier league side.
Sunderland, Portsmouth, ipswich and Bolton. How are those fans feeling.
Mk Dons Lincoln, Rotherham, Blackpool, Docaster, Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Peterborough, Tranmere all double our gate. Every right too better expectations than us.
League two we have.
Former prem team Bradford City. Ave 14,000
Big city club Plymouth. Ave 10,000.
16 clubs have better attendances than us.
National league.
We have seen off.
Notts County, Stockport (should we have followed their model) Chesterfield , Hartlepool, Yeovil, Torquay, Barnet.
Further down the pyramid, York city, Hereford, Chester, Darlington, Boston. Scarborough. Many of these worked on the same financial restraints as us.
And then of course there is Bury.
We own our own ground.
We will never compete on a level wage base so will not attract the same level of player.
Any good player we produce/ find are only with us until a better offer comes along. With the odd exception. We have to accept the broken toys, the injury prone, the over the hill as the sort of players we attract, we are lucky to have a fantastic academy that produces players we can sell.
We are achieving good cup runs which help with the running of the club.
We are in a catch 22, spend money, attract better players and maybe get success, but what if it doesnt work? Too what level can we do this, as a club who sees 4000 home fans as a success.
I wonder if anyone can give a plan to how we achieve a better situation than we have now, without risking the very life of the club.
Its not always exciting being a Dale fan these days but there is a good calm about it and who would have thought as we left the Rochdale division we would now be finding league one boring, i think that is an achievement in itself

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Perspetives on 15:23 - Feb 12 with 1063 viewssomdale

Ignore the bit about the championship average attendances, i got that wrong and dont know how to edit šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚
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Perspetives on 15:25 - Feb 12 with 1049 viewschalky_ncfc

I've always said that you should see League One survival as the only thing to aim from at the start of every season,you dodge relegation then you have won and what with some biggish clubs coming to visit and the odd good run in cups it will always be a good season for Dale

Poll: Do you now think that Notts have suffered enough since Munto?

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Perspetives on 16:03 - Feb 12 with 971 viewsDalenet

Perspetives on 15:23 - Feb 12 by somdale

Ignore the bit about the championship average attendances, i got that wrong and dont know how to edit šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


I don't hear many people saying we should push on. I do hear lots and lots of people talk about how boring we are to watch. They are different issues. I know we are punching above our weight and we are lucky to have a league one club. But we have players that are all able to play a bit.....but tactically we are not playing to our strengths and we don't have any plan B C or D when all the other teams in the division have sussed us out. Its coaching that's a problem. I don't mind us being mid to lower table if we are doing our best and we as fans are being entertained.

You talk about attendances. Irrelevant really as gate receipts make up barely 20% of any League One clubs income. The thread on Ipswich highlights just how unimportant it is relative to TV money, player sales and commercial income. That's why the clubs no longer chase the fan pound. Yes the bigger clubs get a bit more than we do, but it is still a small proportion of their income. If it was so critical we'd be playing in Conference North right now.

We have a turnover of cĀ£5m a year. We should be able to compete at the lower ends of this division and entertain us a bit more in the process.
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Perspetives on 16:23 - Feb 12 with 926 viewsShun

Perspetives on 15:25 - Feb 12 by chalky_ncfc

I've always said that you should see League One survival as the only thing to aim from at the start of every season,you dodge relegation then you have won and what with some biggish clubs coming to visit and the odd good run in cups it will always be a good season for Dale


That's an incredibly defeatist and depressing attitude to take. And not one that's entirely realistic either. Hill showed in 4 League One seasons that we could challenge the play-offs with our budget.

Nobody's expecting a Championship challenge every year, but don't tell us that the best we can hope for in this league is survival.
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Perspetives on 16:45 - Feb 12 with 877 viewsYorkshire_Dale

A couple of weeks ago when we re_signed Matty Lund there were a few clips of his goals from his first tenure with us.....just look at the quality of the play that was in evidence then as opposed to the boring stuff we are dished out week in week out both Home and Away right now.

At least we SHOULD try a different tactic at home in an attempt to attract a few more fans ....but no,we continue with the same borefest over and over again.

As posted yesterday before the match, Parkinson knew exactly how we would play and knew how to dick us.....we were beaten before we stepped out on to the hallowed Stadium of Light.
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Perspetives on 16:59 - Feb 12 with 834 viewschalky_ncfc

Perspetives on 16:23 - Feb 12 by Shun

That's an incredibly defeatist and depressing attitude to take. And not one that's entirely realistic either. Hill showed in 4 League One seasons that we could challenge the play-offs with our budget.

Nobody's expecting a Championship challenge every year, but don't tell us that the best we can hope for in this league is survival.


All I'm saying is that a club of your size and resources League One is a excellent division to be in,sure if you flirt around the playoffs it's exciting but it could easily be flirting with relegation like a couple of seasons ago when it went down to the last minute of the last game to gain safety,do you think that Dale would get automatic promotion the following season?,I doubt it so while some may call me defeatist I say I'm being realistic
[Post edited 12 Feb 17:00]

Poll: Do you now think that Notts have suffered enough since Munto?

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Perspetives on 17:10 - Feb 12 with 800 viewsjudd

Perspetives on 16:59 - Feb 12 by chalky_ncfc

All I'm saying is that a club of your size and resources League One is a excellent division to be in,sure if you flirt around the playoffs it's exciting but it could easily be flirting with relegation like a couple of seasons ago when it went down to the last minute of the last game to gain safety,do you think that Dale would get automatic promotion the following season?,I doubt it so while some may call me defeatist I say I'm being realistic
[Post edited 12 Feb 17:00]


Up until this and the previous 2 seasons we have been up and around the play offs, beating big teams away as well as at home.

And beating you lot.
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Perspetives on 17:20 - Feb 12 with 784 viewschalky_ncfc

Perspetives on 17:10 - Feb 12 by judd

Up until this and the previous 2 seasons we have been up and around the play offs, beating big teams away as well as at home.

And beating you lot.


So it's Dale have had some great times in League One then? That's why you should aim to stay in there rather get promoted,it's far easier to get relegated than go up and if you do get lucky and flirt around the top six then that's even better

Poll: Do you now think that Notts have suffered enough since Munto?

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Perspetives on 17:23 - Feb 12 with 768 viewsjudd

Perspetives on 17:20 - Feb 12 by chalky_ncfc

So it's Dale have had some great times in League One then? That's why you should aim to stay in there rather get promoted,it's far easier to get relegated than go up and if you do get lucky and flirt around the top six then that's even better


The point I am making is that we have been able to compete at the top end and given that we should want to improve year on year, why not have a glance at the promised land?

We have a proven board that is fiscally prudent and would attract and manage the right kind of financial support should the unthinkable happen - and don't forget we have made the unthinkable happen before. Twice in recent times.

For the 3rd season in a row, in the league, though, it is shite to watch.

How's yer cockatoo, Chalky lad?
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Perspetives on 17:33 - Feb 12 with 748 viewschalky_ncfc

Perspetives on 17:23 - Feb 12 by judd

The point I am making is that we have been able to compete at the top end and given that we should want to improve year on year, why not have a glance at the promised land?

We have a proven board that is fiscally prudent and would attract and manage the right kind of financial support should the unthinkable happen - and don't forget we have made the unthinkable happen before. Twice in recent times.

For the 3rd season in a row, in the league, though, it is shite to watch.

How's yer cockatoo, Chalky lad?


Yes I know that Dale have done well in League One and I applaud it but playing exciting football can have it's dangers,what's better boring football in League One or boring football in League Two? In a couple of seasons the whole squad could have changed as well as the manager and style of football,all clubs go through these phases and hopefully Dale will still be in L1 when it happens


Coco is fine thanks

Poll: Do you now think that Notts have suffered enough since Munto?

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Perspetives on 18:21 - Feb 12 with 668 viewsaleanddale

some good points in the OP but what nobody can stop us doing is playing a little more offensively.

Wingers sprinting down the line and whipping crosses with a forward rushing in excites fans.

Midfielders driving / carrying the ball towards goal rather than checking back picking a perfect forward pass or heaven forbid shooting on target.

Generally getting a lot more shots on target more often from inside and outside the area....

All in all we want to be entertained and if we could score more than 2 most weeks the rest would look after itself. I could take the occasional drubbing if the side was trying to play a different way than we do currently.

i am not a fan of all this possession at the back the possession needs to be in the final third with quality crosses being attacked by hungry forwards.

Its a trend that all lower league football is going through - there was something in the Mike Basset speech 4 4 ***** 2.

I can see what BBM is trying to do but it is not pretty by any stretch of the imagination.
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Perspetives on 18:41 - Feb 12 with 638 viewsAtThePeake

Perspetives on 18:21 - Feb 12 by aleanddale

some good points in the OP but what nobody can stop us doing is playing a little more offensively.

Wingers sprinting down the line and whipping crosses with a forward rushing in excites fans.

Midfielders driving / carrying the ball towards goal rather than checking back picking a perfect forward pass or heaven forbid shooting on target.

Generally getting a lot more shots on target more often from inside and outside the area....

All in all we want to be entertained and if we could score more than 2 most weeks the rest would look after itself. I could take the occasional drubbing if the side was trying to play a different way than we do currently.

i am not a fan of all this possession at the back the possession needs to be in the final third with quality crosses being attacked by hungry forwards.

Its a trend that all lower league football is going through - there was something in the Mike Basset speech 4 4 ***** 2.

I can see what BBM is trying to do but it is not pretty by any stretch of the imagination.


"All in all we want to be entertained and if we could score more than 2 most weeks the rest would look after itself."

There isn't a team in League One averaging more than two goals a game this season. Peterborough are averaging 2 exactly, but have scored at least 10 more than any other team in the division.

This is really grim and defeatist, but I think maybe we have to accept that those years in the top half under Hill were the result of our greatest ever manager operating at his peak, having a little bit of luck with signings, and enjoying the momentum of another promotion just a couple of years earlier behind him. It's possible, one day, that we have a similar alignment of luck and ability and manage to overachieve again, but with our current fanbase and budget, we aren't really likely to. Aware this is a defeatist outlook, but I also think it's a realistic one.

I also think it's unrealistic to suggest that more exciting football attracts supporters, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to boast this at the end of last season: https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2019/may/attendancefigures_2018-19/ - given that the majority of the football played last season was absolutely turgid. The sad fact is, unless it's particularly bad and a few hardly souls decide to stay away for a few weeks until a particular manager they dislike is inevitably sacked, the style of football that Dale play will never really change the attendance figures at Spotland.

This post has been edited by an administrator

"Everything I know about morality and the obligations of men, I owe it to football."

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Perspetives on 18:43 - Feb 12 with 634 viewsNinco

Perspetives on 16:23 - Feb 12 by Shun

That's an incredibly defeatist and depressing attitude to take. And not one that's entirely realistic either. Hill showed in 4 League One seasons that we could challenge the play-offs with our budget.

Nobody's expecting a Championship challenge every year, but don't tell us that the best we can hope for in this league is survival.


You can't really compare Hill to BBM as it's reported that Hill had a much higher budget to operate with.
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Perspetives on 19:30 - Feb 12 with 553 views49thseason

There is a world of difference between those who pay and those who play. BBM Riley Ellis and the rest have a single mission....stay in L1. The how has not been dictated and consequently they will take ice cold professional decisions and implement them game by game. Accumulating points, picking teams based on who is fit, who needs a rest, which minor injuries can be risked etc. Its shit to watch but we are not Tranmere or Southend and of all seasons, this is the one where cutting costs and playing kids might be enough to fulfill the mission. So far so good, we are not in a relegation place, we have earned a decent chunk of money in the cups and sold a couple of youngsters , the bank balance has been replenished and a couple of players have arrived to reinforce the ranks.
But... playing in front of decent sized crowds is better than an empty stadium, scoring goals is better than not doing and having a positive goal difference would give the whole club a lift. We cant plan to play another season fighting for mere survival. L1 is very difficult if you dont have a team of athletic 6 footers. A couple of beefy forwards who can actually score goals has to be a close season target to take some pressure off the defence and retaining Sanchez for another year would be huge.
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