| Further Q&As on 12:35 - Jun 11 with 1593 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 12:06 - Jun 11 by dawlishdale |
The usual way in which this happens is by way of monthly "management fees". I have seen this happen at a company I was involved in before..... Investment is made, and those who invest have a say in the running of the business in return for fees, usually paid to their holding company.
Of course, the million $ question is how much they would charge in order to make a good return for their own investors, and whether the knowledge and investment they would bring is worth the cost. |
Yeah, I’ve seen similar products and I suspect something like this will be the case. Whilst they can be technically presented as ‘interest-free’ loans it’s disingenuous to allow people to glean from that that only the capital element of the loan is repayable.
I do wonder as well whether something like that will be used re the issue of security. The provider of the loan will not take the security. However, the club will enter into some sort of services agreement with the holding company, pursuant to which the fees will be paid, and it will be the holding company that takes the security. In that way, the loan will not be backed by security. However, that doesn’t mean that the club will not be providing security.
The presentation of loans as interest-free and not backed by security is a red-flag. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 12:38]
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| Further Q&As on 12:50 - Jun 11 with 1532 views | dawlishdale |
| Further Q&As on 12:35 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
Yeah, I’ve seen similar products and I suspect something like this will be the case. Whilst they can be technically presented as ‘interest-free’ loans it’s disingenuous to allow people to glean from that that only the capital element of the loan is repayable.
I do wonder as well whether something like that will be used re the issue of security. The provider of the loan will not take the security. However, the club will enter into some sort of services agreement with the holding company, pursuant to which the fees will be paid, and it will be the holding company that takes the security. In that way, the loan will not be backed by security. However, that doesn’t mean that the club will not be providing security.
The presentation of loans as interest-free and not backed by security is a red-flag. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 12:38]
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One would fully expect the club to have highlighted this in their statement, so as to provide fans and shareholders with a better understanding of the background to the offer. One would also expect that CD would have been aware of their plans before he sold his shares. It may well be part of the NDA conditions preventing them from expanding.
I'm of the opinion that this is an exciting prospect, but one that also presents a substantial risk to the club. The Directors must view the risk as being significant to have withdrawn from negotiations, and state that no further talks are planned. | | | |
| Further Q&As on 15:55 - Jun 11 with 1407 views | 1949er |
| Further Q&As on 23:05 - Jun 10 by D_Alien |
There's little doubt, either from listening to Dan Altman or looking into his CV, that he's highly intelligent and seems to have an easy knack of locking quickly onto what makes other's tick, enabling him to open people up to his ideas
He got on well with AK when he visited the club
His ready response to the Trust question about his interim stance pending any further developments: "I'm a supporter!"
None of the above is intended negatively. It's just a description based on available information. It's my opinion that he'd run rings round those currently in charge at Dale, and i think they know it. Is that a good or a bad thing? I wouldn't like to say |
Is this the same Dan Altman that was involved unsuccessfully Swansea City? | |
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| Further Q&As on 16:30 - Jun 11 with 1352 views | judd |
| Further Q&As on 15:55 - Jun 11 by 1949er |
Is this the same Dan Altman that was involved unsuccessfully Swansea City? |
As an employee, yes. |  |
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| Further Q&As on 16:30 - Jun 11 with 1352 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 12:50 - Jun 11 by dawlishdale |
One would fully expect the club to have highlighted this in their statement, so as to provide fans and shareholders with a better understanding of the background to the offer. One would also expect that CD would have been aware of their plans before he sold his shares. It may well be part of the NDA conditions preventing them from expanding.
I'm of the opinion that this is an exciting prospect, but one that also presents a substantial risk to the club. The Directors must view the risk as being significant to have withdrawn from negotiations, and state that no further talks are planned. |
Or they may have just spoken to someone at Swansea? | |
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| Further Q&As on 16:36 - Jun 11 with 1342 views | judd |
| Further Q&As on 16:30 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
Or they may have just spoken to someone at Swansea? |
It appears to be the price that caused the disconnect. | |
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| Further Q&As on 16:59 - Jun 11 with 1302 views | D_Alien |
| Further Q&As on 16:30 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
Or they may have just spoken to someone at Swansea? |
I should hope they have. Just as well we ignored the views of those who cast Chris O'Grady aside, to quote one of your own recent examples |  |
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| Further Q&As on 17:10 - Jun 11 with 1269 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 16:36 - Jun 11 by judd |
It appears to be the price that caused the disconnect. |
I’m sure you’re right. | |
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| Further Q&As on 17:14 - Jun 11 with 1254 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 16:59 - Jun 11 by D_Alien |
I should hope they have. Just as well we ignored the views of those who cast Chris O'Grady aside, to quote one of your own recent examples |
I don’t recall O’Grady playing for Swansea? | |
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| Further Q&As on 17:24 - Jun 11 with 1231 views | judd |
| Further Q&As on 17:14 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
I don’t recall O’Grady playing for Swansea? |
He was their goldbond agent | |
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| Further Q&As on 17:59 - Jun 11 with 1169 views | D_Alien |
| Further Q&As on 17:14 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
I don’t recall O’Grady playing for Swansea? |
Doesn't surprise me you're unable to respond to the point about being able to form an independent judgement | |
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| Further Q&As on 18:05 - Jun 11 with 1152 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 17:59 - Jun 11 by D_Alien |
Doesn't surprise me you're unable to respond to the point about being able to form an independent judgement |
Did you make an independent judgment that Chris O’Grady played for Swansea? [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:18]
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| Further Q&As on 18:17 - Jun 11 with 1129 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 16:36 - Jun 11 by judd |
It appears to be the price that caused the disconnect. |
From what I’m hearing you’re right. However, Board machinations aside, there’s a guy (significant shareholder now) here who wants to, and may end up, running/owning the club who is talking about interest-free unsecured loan ‘investment’. He’s also talking about returns for investors. I’m sorry but it’s difficult to see how the two marry together. I could be wrong. | |
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| Further Q&As on 18:35 - Jun 11 with 1085 views | D_Alien |
| Further Q&As on 18:05 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
Did you make an independent judgment that Chris O’Grady played for Swansea? [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:18]
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I made an independent judgement that Dan Altman may or may not be a good fit for Dale to foster an investment relationship with, irrespective of his experience at Swansea
Have you worked out why data analytics might well have found that Chris O'Grady would be a useful asset for Dale, like you had to have pointed out to you?
[Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:37]
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| Further Q&As on 18:56 - Jun 11 with 1045 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 18:35 - Jun 11 by D_Alien |
I made an independent judgement that Dan Altman may or may not be a good fit for Dale to foster an investment relationship with, irrespective of his experience at Swansea
Have you worked out why data analytics might well have found that Chris O'Grady would be a useful asset for Dale, like you had to have pointed out to you?
[Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:37]
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I asked the question how they would. I don’t know if they would or wouldn’t. You are presuming they definitely would. That’s a bit silly. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 18:57]
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| Further Q&As on 18:59 - Jun 11 with 1038 views | isitme |
| Further Q&As on 18:17 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
From what I’m hearing you’re right. However, Board machinations aside, there’s a guy (significant shareholder now) here who wants to, and may end up, running/owning the club who is talking about interest-free unsecured loan ‘investment’. He’s also talking about returns for investors. I’m sorry but it’s difficult to see how the two marry together. I could be wrong. |
It is a fair question and what would be classed as an acceptable return? Would 10% of all transfer income be acceptable? This is what Hill was supposedly entitled to.
If their model of player recruitment is successful it would be win, win for all parties. Peterborough do well in terms of transfer revenue with a buy cheap and sell high approach. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 19:03]
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| Further Q&As on 19:02 - Jun 11 with 1025 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 18:59 - Jun 11 by isitme |
It is a fair question and what would be classed as an acceptable return? Would 10% of all transfer income be acceptable? This is what Hill was supposedly entitled to.
If their model of player recruitment is successful it would be win, win for all parties. Peterborough do well in terms of transfer revenue with a buy cheap and sell high approach. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 19:03]
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My concern is what happens if it doesn’t work. They have said the loans will be unsecured. I find that very hard to believe. | |
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| Further Q&As on 19:05 - Jun 11 with 1017 views | isitme |
| Further Q&As on 19:02 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
My concern is what happens if it doesn’t work. They have said the loans will be unsecured. I find that very hard to believe. |
Again that is a fair point, but to ask the question again would you see a percentage return on player sales as being acceptable in principle? | | | |
| Further Q&As on 19:11 - Jun 11 with 1005 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 19:05 - Jun 11 by isitme |
Again that is a fair point, but to ask the question again would you see a percentage return on player sales as being acceptable in principle? |
I’d say no. In my experience nobody lends a sizeable amount of money without some form of security (guarantee/legal charge). The risk is too great. | |
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| Further Q&As on 19:17 - Jun 11 with 980 views | judd |
| Further Q&As on 19:11 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
I’d say no. In my experience nobody lends a sizeable amount of money without some form of security (guarantee/legal charge). The risk is too great. |
Pie sales then? | |
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| Further Q&As on 19:19 - Jun 11 with 975 views | James1980 |
| Further Q&As on 19:11 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
I’d say no. In my experience nobody lends a sizeable amount of money without some form of security (guarantee/legal charge). The risk is too great. |
Perhaps they have such faith in there software this is why they are willing to forgo security. | |
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| Further Q&As on 19:34 - Jun 11 with 947 views | JumeirahDale |
| Further Q&As on 18:17 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
From what I’m hearing you’re right. However, Board machinations aside, there’s a guy (significant shareholder now) here who wants to, and may end up, running/owning the club who is talking about interest-free unsecured loan ‘investment’. He’s also talking about returns for investors. I’m sorry but it’s difficult to see how the two marry together. I could be wrong. |
It is possible to marry the two together if you assume an increase in valuation from success on the field, but that takes us full circle back to the "exit strategy" point again. |  | | |
| Further Q&As on 19:39 - Jun 11 with 934 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 19:19 - Jun 11 by James1980 |
Perhaps they have such faith in there software this is why they are willing to forgo security. |
They may think it’s worthy of George Jetson himself but there are a myriad of factors that may mean the loan or whatever mechanism repayments are made through are not able to be met for whatever reason. Investors will always want something to fall back on to guarantee at least some of their outlay. | |
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| Further Q&As on 19:45 - Jun 11 with 920 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Further Q&As on 19:34 - Jun 11 by JumeirahDale |
It is possible to marry the two together if you assume an increase in valuation from success on the field, but that takes us full circle back to the "exit strategy" point again. |
Exactly. I find it very hard to believe that investors will part with significant amounts of money with their only guarantee of a return (including their outlay) being the performance of a football team and the presumed returns that will flow from that.
That’s essentially gambling. These are investors. [Post edited 11 Jun 2020 19:48]
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| Further Q&As on 20:04 - Jun 11 with 888 views | James1980 |
| Further Q&As on 19:39 - Jun 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
They may think it’s worthy of George Jetson himself but there are a myriad of factors that may mean the loan or whatever mechanism repayments are made through are not able to be met for whatever reason. Investors will always want something to fall back on to guarantee at least some of their outlay. |
Do they mean it won't be secured against the club/coa however if a new training facility gets built they want a separate company formed and that becomes the security?
Alternatively what sort of marketing budget do firms have these days? Is a few million unheard of? Having said that I am not sure I like the idea Dale being used in an elaborate marketing campaign for their scouting program. | |
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