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Update on fans returning 18:24 - Sep 15 with 17210 views442Dale

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54158891

So some could have fans back at weekend, however “ Those in local lockdown areas were told they would not receive permission to take part in the test events.”


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Update on fans returning on 14:49 - Sep 22 with 1899 viewsSuddenLad

Update on fans returning on 14:29 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Asking people to remain vigilant or forcing a way of life on people, in it werid the spike only started when peoplr started to wear masks, which offer no protection to the virus.

Covid killed (well I mean had covid when died) less than 1% off all overall deaths in week 36, in Auguest alone it wasn't even the top 10 for people dying.
Oxford scientists have said 30% of covid deaths in July and August shouldn't of been recorded as covid.

I will not change my lifestyle for a virus which you have a 99.9935% chance of survival. This will wreck the future for all our kids and grand kids.

You'll be telling me next that everything the 2 mad Prof said yesterday was truth.


I won't be telling you any such thing. The scientists are eminent and renowned experts in their field of expertise. The whole COVID response has to be led by the science.

Governments - everywhere - have to take the advice they are given in an effort to reduce the effect the virus has on the wider population.

In return, people have to act responsibly and in accordance with their own conscience.

Statistics can tell you anything. Undertakers are busier than ever - according to statistics.

“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”

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Update on fans returning on 14:50 - Sep 22 with 1891 viewsNigeriamark

Update on fans returning on 12:49 - Sep 22 by boromat

Part of the announcement from Boris now states sporting events will not be allowed to have crowds. It also states we should plan to expect these restrictions to be in place for at least 6 months.

That's pretty much a season behind closed doors. It's not looking good for lower league football clubs.


Also not good for players ( and agents) who are not yet fixed up as clubs who were optimistic of the October start, may now plan to spend even less
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Update on fans returning on 14:54 - Sep 22 with 1872 viewsTVOS1907

Update on fans returning on 14:29 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Asking people to remain vigilant or forcing a way of life on people, in it werid the spike only started when peoplr started to wear masks, which offer no protection to the virus.

Covid killed (well I mean had covid when died) less than 1% off all overall deaths in week 36, in Auguest alone it wasn't even the top 10 for people dying.
Oxford scientists have said 30% of covid deaths in July and August shouldn't of been recorded as covid.

I will not change my lifestyle for a virus which you have a 99.9935% chance of survival. This will wreck the future for all our kids and grand kids.

You'll be telling me next that everything the 2 mad Prof said yesterday was truth.


Well as long as you're alright...

Undoubted knowledge? Or just the application of common sense and using my brain?

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Update on fans returning on 14:54 - Sep 22 with 1872 viewsDaleiLama

Update on fans returning on 13:14 - Sep 22 by SuddenLad

Death Rigby (Sky New) reports that as 'perhaps six months'. It still looks bleak in either interpretation.


There's absolutely no way of knowing, of course, SL. As always, the numbers will play some part whilst the politics behind interpreting them will also contribute in defining strategy. It was indicative at best and like everything to do with Covid, should be heeded as today's news which could change in the following days/weeks/months.

Interestingly, Scotland have been far tougher and (whilst she is certainly not my cop of tea), Sturgeon presented the policies north of the border in a much more coherent and user friendly way than the PM imho.

Up the Dale - NOT for sale!
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Update on fans returning on 14:58 - Sep 22 with 1845 viewsDaleiLama

Update on fans returning on 14:29 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Asking people to remain vigilant or forcing a way of life on people, in it werid the spike only started when peoplr started to wear masks, which offer no protection to the virus.

Covid killed (well I mean had covid when died) less than 1% off all overall deaths in week 36, in Auguest alone it wasn't even the top 10 for people dying.
Oxford scientists have said 30% of covid deaths in July and August shouldn't of been recorded as covid.

I will not change my lifestyle for a virus which you have a 99.9935% chance of survival. This will wreck the future for all our kids and grand kids.

You'll be telling me next that everything the 2 mad Prof said yesterday was truth.


It is precisely this attitude which has resulted in the R rate rising, hospitalisations rising, death rates rising and fans not being allowed into stadia.

Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that people wearing masks caused a virus spike? I ask because your post suggests as much, but in truth, can't believe this is your contention?

Up the Dale - NOT for sale!
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Update on fans returning on 15:05 - Sep 22 with 1828 viewsSuddenLad

Update on fans returning on 14:54 - Sep 22 by DaleiLama

There's absolutely no way of knowing, of course, SL. As always, the numbers will play some part whilst the politics behind interpreting them will also contribute in defining strategy. It was indicative at best and like everything to do with Covid, should be heeded as today's news which could change in the following days/weeks/months.

Interestingly, Scotland have been far tougher and (whilst she is certainly not my cop of tea), Sturgeon presented the policies north of the border in a much more coherent and user friendly way than the PM imho.


Of course - and I did notice that Sturgeon has introduced much tighter, harsher restrictions to combat COVID in Scotland.

No restrictions on personal freedoms are ever pleasant and no Government willingly reduces those freedoms without good and just cause.

We all have a part to play and yes - there will be serious financial and commercial implications for many.

The biggest problem is the uncertainty with which it progresses and the necessarily differing advice given at each stage of the pandemic.

If I need to wear a mask in any given situation and reduce social contact, so be it. Being/staying safe and protecting others is paramount.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 15:08]

“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”

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Update on fans returning on 15:15 - Sep 22 with 1790 viewsDaleiLama

Update on fans returning on 15:05 - Sep 22 by SuddenLad

Of course - and I did notice that Sturgeon has introduced much tighter, harsher restrictions to combat COVID in Scotland.

No restrictions on personal freedoms are ever pleasant and no Government willingly reduces those freedoms without good and just cause.

We all have a part to play and yes - there will be serious financial and commercial implications for many.

The biggest problem is the uncertainty with which it progresses and the necessarily differing advice given at each stage of the pandemic.

If I need to wear a mask in any given situation and reduce social contact, so be it. Being/staying safe and protecting others is paramount.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 15:08]


Much more relaxed about it here!


Up the Dale - NOT for sale!
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Update on fans returning on 15:24 - Sep 22 with 1760 viewsSuddenLad

Update on fans returning on 15:15 - Sep 22 by DaleiLama

Much more relaxed about it here!



I went there many years ago on a geography field trip from school. Fascinating place. Stayed at Ballycastle from where the boat went.

“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”

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Update on fans returning on 15:32 - Sep 22 with 1729 viewsmightydale

Update on fans returning on 14:58 - Sep 22 by DaleiLama

It is precisely this attitude which has resulted in the R rate rising, hospitalisations rising, death rates rising and fans not being allowed into stadia.

Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that people wearing masks caused a virus spike? I ask because your post suggests as much, but in truth, can't believe this is your contention?


Yes it precisely what am saying not seen any science to prove me wrong, every Country in Europe who wear masks are seeing a spike in infections. The amount of bacteria that can hibernate in face mask is scary.

As for hospitalisations going up you do know how they record it dont you ???? If not look it up, good on Scotland changing away from this process BTW.

As for deaths 30% of death in July or August shouldn't of been recorded as covid death, more people have died of FLU ( and there's a vaccine for that) the covid. so let's wreck our kids life for a virus where you a survival rate than flu.
Question

Do you think every death recorded daily/weekly etc have died CAUSE of Covid ???

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Update on fans returning on 15:43 - Sep 22 with 1701 viewsNigeriamark

Update on fans returning on 15:05 - Sep 22 by SuddenLad

Of course - and I did notice that Sturgeon has introduced much tighter, harsher restrictions to combat COVID in Scotland.

No restrictions on personal freedoms are ever pleasant and no Government willingly reduces those freedoms without good and just cause.

We all have a part to play and yes - there will be serious financial and commercial implications for many.

The biggest problem is the uncertainty with which it progresses and the necessarily differing advice given at each stage of the pandemic.

If I need to wear a mask in any given situation and reduce social contact, so be it. Being/staying safe and protecting others is paramount.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 15:08]


Sadly the mask issue has been highly politicised in the USA & has spread over here. It also shows that we have part of society who have that "I'm all right jack" attitude. It is true that there is little evidence that masks will stop an individual who doesn't have COVID 19 from getting it. The real benefit is that they reduce the chance someone who has COVID ( especially those who are asymptomatic ) from passing to others. Sadly as soon as some people realise this activity is primarily to help others but not themselves they don't want to know. The freedom angle doesn't cut it because basically they are saying that if they get COVID they still have the right to not protect others

The point that DL makes about do people believe masks can give you cOVID has also been spread in the UK. A senior governor or senator in Texas who doesn't really believe in masks but occasionally wears one got COVID. His response, based on no evidence whatsoever" was that it was wearing the mask that probably gave it to him. Sadly people in these high positions are listened to and undo any scientific approach/rationale. I genuinely hope our politicians don't resort to such dangerous statements at what is a dangerous time for us all
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Update on fans returning on 15:45 - Sep 22 with 1693 viewsDaleFan7

The test system and death recording has been a joke. You can die of heart attack and be put down as a coronavirus death if you've had it within the last 28 days. Could it have contributed, maybe? Was it the actual cause of death, unlikely.

I know someone who had an appointment at a test centre, didn't end up having their test because it was too busy, then got a text a day or 2 later to say that they were positive for Covid 19. When things like this are happening, how can people trust what they are being told?
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Update on fans returning on 16:13 - Sep 22 with 1633 viewsisitme



A very interesting thread.
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Update on fans returning on 16:22 - Sep 22 with 1593 viewsHK_Dale

Update on fans returning on 15:32 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Yes it precisely what am saying not seen any science to prove me wrong, every Country in Europe who wear masks are seeing a spike in infections. The amount of bacteria that can hibernate in face mask is scary.

As for hospitalisations going up you do know how they record it dont you ???? If not look it up, good on Scotland changing away from this process BTW.

As for deaths 30% of death in July or August shouldn't of been recorded as covid death, more people have died of FLU ( and there's a vaccine for that) the covid. so let's wreck our kids life for a virus where you a survival rate than flu.
Question

Do you think every death recorded daily/weekly etc have died CAUSE of Covid ???


You're conflating two things here. One point which is perfectly valid around the recording of deaths and the first point which is scarily inaccurate.

Seems to be a classic case of correlation not causation. Is it possible that given wearing masks was the prominent government response across pretty much all of Europe that countries with mask wearing would see a spike?

Is it more likely that the spikes seen across Europe is a result of easing restrictions post the implementation of wearing masks etc. in public places rather than the masks themselves?
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Update on fans returning on 16:45 - Sep 22 with 1519 viewsJames1980

I think the incorrect use of masks could be one of the issues. The amount of people I see at work who wear them under their chins, not covering their mouth and nose really does amaze me. Also how many people are putting them on and off without cleaning or sanitising their hands before hand? Especially when they are taking they mask on and off between each establishment they visit.
The fact medical practitioners wear them for length periods shows they DO NOT MAKE PEOPLE ILL.
There have been a number of videos showing people wearing a mask and whilst monitoring their blood oxygen levels with a pulse oximeter. THEY DO NOT DECREASE YOUR OXYGEN LEVELS!

'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
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Update on fans returning on 17:01 - Sep 22 with 1463 viewsnordenblue

Update on fans returning on 15:32 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Yes it precisely what am saying not seen any science to prove me wrong, every Country in Europe who wear masks are seeing a spike in infections. The amount of bacteria that can hibernate in face mask is scary.

As for hospitalisations going up you do know how they record it dont you ???? If not look it up, good on Scotland changing away from this process BTW.

As for deaths 30% of death in July or August shouldn't of been recorded as covid death, more people have died of FLU ( and there's a vaccine for that) the covid. so let's wreck our kids life for a virus where you a survival rate than flu.
Question

Do you think every death recorded daily/weekly etc have died CAUSE of Covid ???


You don't think rather than the masks being at fault,the massive increase in infection rate is a direct result of people being out and about more,mixing etc?

Anyone who thought the fans would return to football grounds was ever going to happen anytime soon seriously needs their head examined, they'll be offering a full refund on ST at this rate.
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Update on fans returning on 17:12 - Sep 22 with 1438 viewsD_Alien

There is some evidence (but can't remember where i read it now to provide a link) to suggest that whilst wearing a mask won't prevent the wearer from catching Covid, it may lessen the "dose" they get in terms of severity. This in turn may (and there's no back-up studies yet to confirm this) result in fewer hospitalisations, reduced mortality and quite importantly, confer greater immunity within the population

From what i can remember, this interim conclusion was drawn from studies of countries where mask-wearing has been more common for some time

What it might also mean is people may test positive despite wearing a mask but in turn, any transmission from them to others is less virulent. Early days yet, but as far as wearing masks is concerned, it's pretty much a no-brainer (although that won't help those to whom that literally applies...)

Just as an addendum to this: the government followed the scientific advice during the early months of lockdown which was that wearing a mask conferred no benefit, and therefore the advice was not to bother. That does illustrate quite neatly how the science can change, but sometimes common sense and consideration for others is just as effective
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 17:17]

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Update on fans returning on 17:20 - Sep 22 with 1416 viewsJames1980

Update on fans returning on 17:12 - Sep 22 by D_Alien

There is some evidence (but can't remember where i read it now to provide a link) to suggest that whilst wearing a mask won't prevent the wearer from catching Covid, it may lessen the "dose" they get in terms of severity. This in turn may (and there's no back-up studies yet to confirm this) result in fewer hospitalisations, reduced mortality and quite importantly, confer greater immunity within the population

From what i can remember, this interim conclusion was drawn from studies of countries where mask-wearing has been more common for some time

What it might also mean is people may test positive despite wearing a mask but in turn, any transmission from them to others is less virulent. Early days yet, but as far as wearing masks is concerned, it's pretty much a no-brainer (although that won't help those to whom that literally applies...)

Just as an addendum to this: the government followed the scientific advice during the early months of lockdown which was that wearing a mask conferred no benefit, and therefore the advice was not to bother. That does illustrate quite neatly how the science can change, but sometimes common sense and consideration for others is just as effective
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 17:17]


My brother in laws sister works in a hospital and she told him severity of symptoms was linked to comorbidities and or viral load. I saw something as well regarding masks possibly decreasing the viral load of the wearer.

'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
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Update on fans returning on 17:28 - Sep 22 with 1386 viewsboromat

This conversation may be all very interesting but you're all missing the big point.

No fans in stadiums for 6 months is now highly likely

We're all stuck with iFollow

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Update on fans returning on 17:37 - Sep 22 with 1367 views442Dale

Update on fans returning on 17:28 - Sep 22 by boromat

This conversation may be all very interesting but you're all missing the big point.

No fans in stadiums for 6 months is now highly likely

We're all stuck with iFollow


Unfortunately that was always going to be a possible outcome. It’s accepting that and hoping the club gets through this now.

There’s a good chance that this may now affect potential recruitment plans.

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Update on fans returning on 17:37 - Sep 22 with 1367 viewsDaleiLama

Update on fans returning on 15:32 - Sep 22 by mightydale

Yes it precisely what am saying not seen any science to prove me wrong, every Country in Europe who wear masks are seeing a spike in infections. The amount of bacteria that can hibernate in face mask is scary.

As for hospitalisations going up you do know how they record it dont you ???? If not look it up, good on Scotland changing away from this process BTW.

As for deaths 30% of death in July or August shouldn't of been recorded as covid death, more people have died of FLU ( and there's a vaccine for that) the covid. so let's wreck our kids life for a virus where you a survival rate than flu.
Question

Do you think every death recorded daily/weekly etc have died CAUSE of Covid ???


I seriously doubt there will be a study on the increase in infection rate as a result of wearing a mask when there is almost universal acceptance that wearing masks helps reduce the risk of spread. The masks, even if not single use, are certainly not meant to be worn over and over again. To think they should be worn long enough for the virus (not bacteria) to proliferate is probably more scary actually. Even if you don't want to go down the disposable route, washable alternatives are available. You can even buy a Dale one and help the club?

When I saw your mad profs comment I knew I shouldn't have taken the bait, which I now regret. The government (one I have criticised in the past for not being quick enough or doing enough) is doing everything it can to prioritise education to "not wreck our kids lives". Are you really comparing seasonal flu to Covid-19? If so, I suggest you have a word with your GP about it next time you see him/her. They may also tell you about the long term health issues (multiple organs can be impaired post-recovery) which are only just starting to be understood.

I'm going to leave it here now. We'll just agree to disagree. I think your position does you no credit though and nor will it help to reduce spread or get you in the COA any quicker - in fact quite the contrary.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2020 19:40]

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Update on fans returning on 18:30 - Sep 22 with 1254 viewsDalenet

Update on fans returning on 17:01 - Sep 22 by nordenblue

You don't think rather than the masks being at fault,the massive increase in infection rate is a direct result of people being out and about more,mixing etc?

Anyone who thought the fans would return to football grounds was ever going to happen anytime soon seriously needs their head examined, they'll be offering a full refund on ST at this rate.


Completely agree with the likelihood of seeing football this season and always did - can't see the club rushing to return season ticket funds though. Can you?
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Update on fans returning on 19:06 - Sep 22 with 1151 viewsD_Alien

Update on fans returning on 18:30 - Sep 22 by Dalenet

Completely agree with the likelihood of seeing football this season and always did - can't see the club rushing to return season ticket funds though. Can you?


Ah, refunds...

What fun there's going to be on here once we've heard from the club how they intend to approach this thorny issue!

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Update on fans returning on 19:13 - Sep 22 with 1123 views442Dale

Update on fans returning on 19:06 - Sep 22 by D_Alien

Ah, refunds...

What fun there's going to be on here once we've heard from the club how they intend to approach this thorny issue!


Thought it was very clear. We could purchase a SC on the understanding it may mean attending some/none of the games.

Nobody was under any illusions what could happen and to say otherwise would have been being oblivious of the path the Covid numbers could take. Similarly, anyone who would say we never had a chance of seeing games in October would have been wrong. It’s been an ever-shifting situation, where hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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Update on fans returning on 19:16 - Sep 22 with 1111 viewsrochdaleriddler

Update on fans returning on 17:01 - Sep 22 by nordenblue

You don't think rather than the masks being at fault,the massive increase in infection rate is a direct result of people being out and about more,mixing etc?

Anyone who thought the fans would return to football grounds was ever going to happen anytime soon seriously needs their head examined, they'll be offering a full refund on ST at this rate.


It did happen last weekend, and hundreds can attend non league grounds. It’s people mixing with friends and family that are driving the rise, not football games or pubs and restaurants

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Update on fans returning on 19:22 - Sep 22 with 1081 viewsrochdaleriddler

Update on fans returning on 17:37 - Sep 22 by 442Dale

Unfortunately that was always going to be a possible outcome. It’s accepting that and hoping the club gets through this now.

There’s a good chance that this may now affect potential recruitment plans.


I thought we had budgeted for the no fan scenario, and having 1000 back wasn’t going to earn the club any money

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