| Has keepball had it's day? 20:07 - Nov 21 with 6542 views | D_Alien |
Looking at the stats for the Spurs v Man City game, the BBC had it as 66% possession for Man City
The Pep Guardiola revolution has, imo, come to an end. Any manager or coach who decided to follow that type of football will not only increasingly find themselves on the wrong side of scorelines against canny opponents but also on the wrong side of their fans
Look at Barcelona too. They've lost their way
At L1/L2 level, trying to emulate this type of football is doomed to failure. The players just haven't got the technique for it
I feel sorry for Keohane. I didn't see what happened today but it's not the first time he's been caught out trying to play the ball from positions where every sporting instinct in his body must be telling him to punt it forwards. He was one of our standout players until the start of this month. I bet his confidence must be completely shot now, and all because he wasn't allowed to follow his instincts
I admire BBM and wish him well. I can understand why he tries to put a positive spin on everything, but surely even he must be troubled by how his way of playing isn't working. Dale fans are some of the most long-suffering in the EFL and i'm fully prepared to give him more time to change tack. But change, he surely must, or be on the wrong end of not just footballing trends but also the huge pent up desire among football supporters to be entertained in this, of all years
|  |
| |  |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:10 - Nov 22 with 1733 views | TipperaryDale |
I don't think we'd be better off results-wise even if we changed to a more direct style. The fact is, we've got a very weak squad for this league with a lot of young players and an inexperienced manager. I'd say the fact we've stayed up the past two seasons proves the style works over the course of a season.
Almost nobody here has any shred of actual football experience never mind at the level RAFC are playing at. It is almost certainly not as easy as "just play it quick" - I don't think our players have shown any more competence making those quick decisions, chasing balls over the top and chasing back when your counter attacks get snuffed out than the slow, passing game we play.
Think BBM is just working with the squad he's got, and with what he's got I think this style is probably the one that fits most. |  | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:32 - Nov 22 with 1690 views | D_Alien |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:10 - Nov 22 by TipperaryDale |
I don't think we'd be better off results-wise even if we changed to a more direct style. The fact is, we've got a very weak squad for this league with a lot of young players and an inexperienced manager. I'd say the fact we've stayed up the past two seasons proves the style works over the course of a season.
Almost nobody here has any shred of actual football experience never mind at the level RAFC are playing at. It is almost certainly not as easy as "just play it quick" - I don't think our players have shown any more competence making those quick decisions, chasing balls over the top and chasing back when your counter attacks get snuffed out than the slow, passing game we play.
Think BBM is just working with the squad he's got, and with what he's got I think this style is probably the one that fits most. |
You could well be right about results, and the limitations of our squad. Most of us are pretty patient and not just looking for mindless action for the sake of it. Many of us have been watching for a very long time
But... our current style just grates. Perhaps it's due to watching online (although i've stopped for the time being), and of course we're watching online because we can't attend to give our support or "offer" our thoughts vocally, which adds to the frustration
The bigger issue is whether this is going to drive fans away from watching - it certainly won't attract any new ones. Football is meant to be an entertainment not a chore, and everything - literally everything - depends on fans feeling they've had something worth watching, even if we lose
Furthermore, if players end up making simple errors because they're being told to play a certain way their confidence will go down the drain and how will it ever be restored unless something changes? Watching players turn to face their own goal as a first priority rather than looking upwards to try to pick out a forward pass is dispiriting to watch and must be for them. That's not what they wanted to do when they were kicking a ball about at school with dreams of becoming a pro footballer. Eventually, they'll lose respect for the management for making them play that way
[Post edited 22 Nov 2020 13:35]
| |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 14:25 - Nov 22 with 1625 views | funkkk |
The best thing about this season is it's behind closed doors. At least it's only 2 hours of misery at a weekend rather than a complete waste of a day. Our style of play is completely and utterly depressing and, aside from the odd match here and there, has been for 3-4 years. |  | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 14:42 - Nov 22 with 1599 views | BigDaveMyCock |
Every style has its merits and downsides. You can also have a team that creates very little with 70% possession or you can have a team that creates very little by launching the ball forward at every opportunity.
The increase in possession football in England owes much to the underachievement of the England national side and the technical superiority of many foreign players in England. The problem with our (England’s) reliance on ‘directness’ was that not only was it detrimental to the technical side of the English game but it negatively affected our game management or lack thereof as well. England were unable to cope with even average sides because we simply couldn’t kill periods of the game by retaining the ball for long enough.
At its best, you football a team to death. At its worse it’s possession for the sake of it with no end product.
Overall, I think it’s had a positive impact on the English game though. Even at League One level, players are so much technically better than they used to be the case. [Post edited 22 Nov 2020 14:47]
|  |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 14:43 - Nov 22 with 1595 views | blackdogblue |
Just started to read BBM’s post match claptrap & got this far & gave up...
There has been a very few minimal games this season where we feel as if we haven’t performed, and today, along with a large of majority of the season, the lads have applied our way of playing to a tee.
Tee? Yep FOUR kin rubbish... |  |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 16:31 - Nov 22 with 1510 views | AtThePeake |
I think we as football fans like to THINK that we care about playing style far more than we actually do. Someone mentioned the Fulham game earlier. Do you think Fulham fans will be happier today than they would've been had they had 65% possession, didn't create a chance, but managed to get a point off Everton which could prove pivotal in their relegation fight? I know some would still be unhappy but if we steal a 1-0 win in the last second yesterday the vast majority of us wouldn't care less about the tactics we had adopted.
I'm not happy with the performance yesterday by any stretch and we are severely lacking both pace and creativity that much is obvious, but perhaps that's why we aren't adopting a style based around pace and creativity. Some of the blame for that does lie with BBM, particularly as he has given contracts to the likes of Dooley and Done meaning two of those creative positions in the squad are now taken up by players who offer next to nothing. Even he seems not to trust them to offer anything anymore.
We've averaged 48% possession this season, so it's clearly not that we are adopting this approach in every match. It does suit us to have less of the ball as shown by our results this season, but it also suits Wimbledon clearly. We seem to have found a way of playing against other possession-based and attacking teams, we now need to find a better way of dealing with teams who want to cede possession and sit deep. |  |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 16:59 - Nov 22 with 1468 views | James1980 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 14:43 - Nov 22 by blackdogblue |
Just started to read BBM’s post match claptrap & got this far & gave up...
There has been a very few minimal games this season where we feel as if we haven’t performed, and today, along with a large of majority of the season, the lads have applied our way of playing to a tee.
Tee? Yep FOUR kin rubbish... |
Could it be that BBM doesn't like to criticise the team in public. But behind the dressing room door he has given them a rollicking. | |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 18:37 - Nov 22 with 1382 views | mikehunt |
Danny Cowley on Quest last night put it in a nutshell:
He called it "pointless possession". Its no use having hold of the ball for so long, if you don't know what you are going to do with it. Just get the the ball up to your better players.
Somewhat paraphrased but describes us to a tee. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Has keepball had it's day? on 19:55 - Nov 22 with 1307 views | EllDale |
Wasn’t Done already under contract until next June when BBM took over?
Whatever the answer he wasn’t able to ship him out in the summer along with all the other out of contract players.
As for Dooley he is just a shadow of the player who we originally signed with his ability to take men on.
He doesn’t try to beat a man at all these days.
In fact the only people who look capable of moving quickly with the ball are Roberts, O’Connell and Rathbone. The fact that the first two are primarily centre backs is an indictment of our attacking prowess. | | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 20:23 - Nov 22 with 1260 views | TVOS1907 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 19:55 - Nov 22 by EllDale |
Wasn’t Done already under contract until next June when BBM took over?
Whatever the answer he wasn’t able to ship him out in the summer along with all the other out of contract players.
As for Dooley he is just a shadow of the player who we originally signed with his ability to take men on.
He doesn’t try to beat a man at all these days.
In fact the only people who look capable of moving quickly with the ball are Roberts, O’Connell and Rathbone. The fact that the first two are primarily centre backs is an indictment of our attacking prowess. |
Done signed a two-year contract in June 2019. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 21:15 - Nov 22 with 1219 views | blackdogblue |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 16:59 - Nov 22 by James1980 |
Could it be that BBM doesn't like to criticise the team in public. But behind the dressing room door he has given them a rollicking. |
Maybe James, there’s only a select few who would really know the answer to that mate...
Is it sometimes better to say less.. we got it wrong, we need to rethink, practice shooting...
Or his he playing to the media? I would rather him sort out the playing on the field... | |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 21:18 - Nov 22 with 1217 views | TVOS1907 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:10 - Nov 22 by TipperaryDale |
I don't think we'd be better off results-wise even if we changed to a more direct style. The fact is, we've got a very weak squad for this league with a lot of young players and an inexperienced manager. I'd say the fact we've stayed up the past two seasons proves the style works over the course of a season.
Almost nobody here has any shred of actual football experience never mind at the level RAFC are playing at. It is almost certainly not as easy as "just play it quick" - I don't think our players have shown any more competence making those quick decisions, chasing balls over the top and chasing back when your counter attacks get snuffed out than the slow, passing game we play.
Think BBM is just working with the squad he's got, and with what he's got I think this style is probably the one that fits most. |
Although, haven't players been signed (particularly goalkeepers) to fit in with the adopted style? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 21:39 - Nov 22 with 1189 views | Nafelad |
I think I'm right in believing that the aim in playing in a football match is to win, by scoring goals. To do this, we need quick players, in midfield and forward areas, who can find space and make themselves available to be found by a good pass. This is difficult, when the ball is kept for so long at the back, that the opposition cover all our players in forward areas, and when our attackers are not quick enough or skilful enough to find space in attacking areas.
BBM isn't convincing me that his prime aim is to win games but it may help if he could change his, and the players' mindsets, and played to his players' strengths, e.g. I think Morley would be better used in forward rather than backward areas.
It has become frustrating and depressing watching matches, playing the way we are, match after match - this lockdown is bad enough as it is!! |  |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 08:45 - Nov 23 with 1048 views | mikehunt |
I think the number of goals Camps has scored for Fleetwood shows what happens when you play to a player’s strengths. | |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 08:52 - Nov 23 with 1042 views | James1980 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 08:45 - Nov 23 by mikehunt |
I think the number of goals Camps has scored for Fleetwood shows what happens when you play to a player’s strengths. |
Is that because the other players at Barton's disposal allow him to set the team up to play to Camps' strengths? | |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 09:01 - Nov 23 with 1035 views | TipperaryDale |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 21:18 - Nov 22 by TVOS1907 |
Although, haven't players been signed (particularly goalkeepers) to fit in with the adopted style? |
True - but that's only one position.
Basically I think what it boils down to is that we don't have the team to play a quick, high-pressing game, not at this level. Our wingers and attacking midfielders aren't particularly quick or powerful. In fact, we struggle physically across the board, and will lose most high balls either attacking or defending. Therefore, if it play it quick and long, we are going to be facing the ball coming back at us a lot more. Knocking it over the full back isn't going to work as we don't have the players to chase it. We don't really have a target man either (Humphrys might change that coming in).
It's a negative tactic, but it's a solution to the problem of staying up when your squad is poor. It's a negative tactic, but we are in a negative situation. And I think the players know that. From what I can see, they're fully behind BBM. | | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 10:03 - Nov 23 with 985 views | James1980 |
It is such a shame we haven't really had our first choice 11 fully fit and playing an extended run of games. | |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 10:04 - Nov 23 with 985 views | TVOS1907 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 09:01 - Nov 23 by TipperaryDale |
True - but that's only one position.
Basically I think what it boils down to is that we don't have the team to play a quick, high-pressing game, not at this level. Our wingers and attacking midfielders aren't particularly quick or powerful. In fact, we struggle physically across the board, and will lose most high balls either attacking or defending. Therefore, if it play it quick and long, we are going to be facing the ball coming back at us a lot more. Knocking it over the full back isn't going to work as we don't have the players to chase it. We don't really have a target man either (Humphrys might change that coming in).
It's a negative tactic, but it's a solution to the problem of staying up when your squad is poor. It's a negative tactic, but we are in a negative situation. And I think the players know that. From what I can see, they're fully behind BBM. |
I cited goalkeepers as one example, but the likes of Roberts will have been brought in for the same reason.
Clearly the manager has decided on the style he wants to play and has recruited accordingly, rather than finding a style to fit the players he has/was left with. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 10:18 - Nov 23 with 970 views | James1980 |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 10:04 - Nov 23 by TVOS1907 |
I cited goalkeepers as one example, but the likes of Roberts will have been brought in for the same reason.
Clearly the manager has decided on the style he wants to play and has recruited accordingly, rather than finding a style to fit the players he has/was left with. |
Seems to me the system is very precarious. If the squad is fully fit great and we will have the footballing World waxing lyrical about our superb play. But a few key players out and BBM has to resort to fitting oval shaped pegs into circle shaped holes at best. Anyway as a former gaffer of the club often said it is a 46 game season. [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 11:19]
| |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 11:41 - Nov 23 with 920 views | Nafelad |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 09:01 - Nov 23 by TipperaryDale |
True - but that's only one position.
Basically I think what it boils down to is that we don't have the team to play a quick, high-pressing game, not at this level. Our wingers and attacking midfielders aren't particularly quick or powerful. In fact, we struggle physically across the board, and will lose most high balls either attacking or defending. Therefore, if it play it quick and long, we are going to be facing the ball coming back at us a lot more. Knocking it over the full back isn't going to work as we don't have the players to chase it. We don't really have a target man either (Humphrys might change that coming in).
It's a negative tactic, but it's a solution to the problem of staying up when your squad is poor. It's a negative tactic, but we are in a negative situation. And I think the players know that. From what I can see, they're fully behind BBM. |
I agree about us not having quick and powerful wingers and attacking midfielders, But I'm not sure who are our 'wingers' are, or if we have any. In regard to being powerful, I often wonder if everyone else's team in League 1 has an average height of 6ft 2, compared to ours, that's more like 5ft 10!!
And a final thought - I wonder if Beesley will ever get in a block or a tackle just once in a game, when he closes down their defenders. He has run himself into the ground every game, trying to harass a defender receiving the ball from his team-mate, but with little effect. | |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 11:51 - Nov 23 with 904 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
What happened to the Trialist winger we had on show last week.....has he gone elsewhere?
looked as though other Clubs were eyeing him up. | | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 12:32 - Nov 23 with 865 views | TipperaryDale |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 10:04 - Nov 23 by TVOS1907 |
I cited goalkeepers as one example, but the likes of Roberts will have been brought in for the same reason.
Clearly the manager has decided on the style he wants to play and has recruited accordingly, rather than finding a style to fit the players he has/was left with. |
Maybe it's a bit of both. You're not going to bring in someone who is shite on the ball if you're a passing team who start out from the back. And I believe this is largely dictated by our forward players. If we had big, tall, quick guys up front who could bully then maybe we'd have different guys at the back and well.
Worth noting that the only reason we're getting the likes of Sanchez, Roberts and Bola is because of the style we play. Likely we'd end up with a worse class of loanees if we didn't. | | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 12:57 - Nov 23 with 838 views | Hopwoodblue |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 12:32 - Nov 23 by TipperaryDale |
Maybe it's a bit of both. You're not going to bring in someone who is shite on the ball if you're a passing team who start out from the back. And I believe this is largely dictated by our forward players. If we had big, tall, quick guys up front who could bully then maybe we'd have different guys at the back and well.
Worth noting that the only reason we're getting the likes of Sanchez, Roberts and Bola is because of the style we play. Likely we'd end up with a worse class of loanees if we didn't. |
It’s all well and good attracting those type of loanee’s because of the style of play but if it means we get relegated playing that way then it kind of contradicts its self. |  |
| |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:25 - Nov 23 with 801 views | shoddycollins |
Interestingly, the main proponent in L2 of playing without posession and probably the person who most successfully exploits teams playing tikka-takka is none other than Chris Beech. | | | |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:27 - Nov 23 with 794 views | D_Alien |
| Has keepball had it's day? on 13:25 - Nov 23 by shoddycollins |
Interestingly, the main proponent in L2 of playing without posession and probably the person who most successfully exploits teams playing tikka-takka is none other than Chris Beech. |
That would be interesting, given his coaching origins under KH
Where do you get that impression from? Watching Carlisle? (No problem whatsoever if you do)
Edit: Hmm... [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 13:40]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
