| Club Statement on 11:20 - Feb 24 with 3179 views | 49thseason |
| Club Statement on 10:56 - Feb 24 by IOMDale |
It's this last paragraph that leaves me slightly confused re: board investment.
I may be doing him a disservice but I doubt a hedge fund owner (Emre Marcelli) would bother investing in us unless there's an eventual tidy profit to be made, given he's got no ties to the club. As a hedge fund manager, you're constantly speculating to accumulate so I assume the plan is for him to invest some personal capital? Maybe towards the proposed new training complex, one of Altman and Marcelli's original stated aims. |
Emre Marcelli is a fund manager, it doesn't say hedge fund manager, they are two different things. The good news is that he probably deals with high net- worth individuals and helps them to find investments within the area of expertise of his fund. Some of those HNWIs may well be interested in investing in a "soccer club" just for the fun of it. Interesting times ahead but lets not set off imagining the US investors are up to no good here, its in everyones interest that we are successful |  | |  |
| Club Statement on 11:22 - Feb 24 with 3153 views | Quigley_dale |
| Club Statement on 11:14 - Feb 24 by Shun |
Not really. You're deliberately getting upset over a completely adequate and common phrase. Everyone knows what the phrase means. You could always just go on downvoting every post on the board though if you want.
To fitzo, it's disingenuous in that they could have come out and told the full story, but the actual wording they used is fine. I would argue that if they'd said 'the rumours of Baah's transfer to City were false', as Quigley suggested, that would have been more disingenuous as it implies there was nothing behind the rumours. When we know the rumours had some grounding as you've already confirmed Baah had a medical at City. 'Exaggerated' is far more appropriate than 'false' in this instance. |
There seems to be one person getting upset on here.
I know what the phrase means, but when you consider the full situation of what happened, I don't think it's the correct one to use. For one it could be argued that they weren't even rumours at all! [Post edited 24 Feb 2021 11:29]
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| Club Statement on 11:24 - Feb 24 with 3136 views | IOMDale |
| Club Statement on 11:20 - Feb 24 by 49thseason |
Emre Marcelli is a fund manager, it doesn't say hedge fund manager, they are two different things. The good news is that he probably deals with high net- worth individuals and helps them to find investments within the area of expertise of his fund. Some of those HNWIs may well be interested in investing in a "soccer club" just for the fun of it. Interesting times ahead but lets not set off imagining the US investors are up to no good here, its in everyones interest that we are successful |
He may not be at this present moment (I'd have to do more digging) but he certainly has been - as stated under Section 4 of this Securities and Exchange Commission Declaration Form:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1580938/000158093813000001/xslFormDX01/p |  |
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| Club Statement on 11:26 - Feb 24 with 3119 views | IOMDale |
You have to ask what has changed in the interim for Altman & Marcelli to suddenly be welcomed onto the board?
Have they agreed for a larger initial investment and compromised on any potential exit strategy? More clarification definitely required at the fans' forum. | |
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| Club Statement on 11:44 - Feb 24 with 2999 views | Cedar_Room |
so just to clarify Baah is not going to Man City? Is he going somewhere else though? Or is his contract still running out in the summer and he’s leaving on a free?? |  | | |
| Club Statement on 11:52 - Feb 24 with 2960 views | oddjob007 |
Why is this thread dominated by what does or doesn't happen to a 17 year old player in the summer?
We've got a new chairman, 2 brand new directors that are completely opposite to your typical Rochdale director (local businessman and fan) and by the sounds of it, we are completely skint.
Talk about missing the point... | | | |
| Club Statement on 11:57 - Feb 24 with 2914 views | 49thseason |
Seems you are correct, Good digging. Not that there is anything wrong with hedge funds, my understanding being that they simply use a variety of investment methods to avoid the possible effects of being stuck in a single investment strategy which goes south. So perhaps investing in a mixture of stocks, exchange rates and something like Gold. | | | |
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| Club Statement on 12:03 - Feb 24 with 2891 views | IOMDale |
| Club Statement on 11:57 - Feb 24 by 49thseason |
Seems you are correct, Good digging. Not that there is anything wrong with hedge funds, my understanding being that they simply use a variety of investment methods to avoid the possible effects of being stuck in a single investment strategy which goes south. So perhaps investing in a mixture of stocks, exchange rates and something like Gold. |
Cheers 49th. As you say, nowt wrong with hedge funds in and of themselves and I definitely don't want to paint Marcelli as a vulture capitalist when I know next-to-nothing of him but it certainly pays to be wary until we know the details of the deal and what his & Altman's intentions are. | |
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| Club Statement on 12:03 - Feb 24 with 2886 views | DaleiLama |
| Club Statement on 11:52 - Feb 24 by oddjob007 |
Why is this thread dominated by what does or doesn't happen to a 17 year old player in the summer?
We've got a new chairman, 2 brand new directors that are completely opposite to your typical Rochdale director (local businessman and fan) and by the sounds of it, we are completely skint.
Talk about missing the point... |
Something to do with the integrity of what we are told.
See the "Is it team Rochdale thread" |  |
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| Club Statement on 12:10 - Feb 24 with 2839 views | JPSDale |
From A Kelly Statement June 20
The loan agreements and their repayment conditions, along with potential exit agreement were not acceptable.
We have 2 new Directors that wanted to agree the terms of their EXIT BEFORE THEY ENTERED. How can this be perceived as a good thing ?
The club are now a marketing tool for their algorithms. We have had no statement from them as to their intensions. These guys might seem nice, but they play to win and that means they want a profit, or cut and run, which could leave the club in ruins if they burden us with players / staff / contracts that are not sustainable for the business they leave behind
Very Worried | | | |
| Club Statement on 12:17 - Feb 24 with 2782 views | funkkk |
An incredible statement when offset against today’s news. Serious questions need to be asked about what has changed in the Americans’ proposal in the past 8 months. What is their end goal? |  | | |
| Club Statement on 12:25 - Feb 24 with 2733 views | HK_Dale |
| Club Statement on 12:10 - Feb 24 by JPSDale |
From A Kelly Statement June 20
The loan agreements and their repayment conditions, along with potential exit agreement were not acceptable.
We have 2 new Directors that wanted to agree the terms of their EXIT BEFORE THEY ENTERED. How can this be perceived as a good thing ?
The club are now a marketing tool for their algorithms. We have had no statement from them as to their intensions. These guys might seem nice, but they play to win and that means they want a profit, or cut and run, which could leave the club in ruins if they burden us with players / staff / contracts that are not sustainable for the business they leave behind
Very Worried |
I think this is the key point from the fans forum - What is the valuation approach / model they have used to justify investment in RAFC?
In addition:
What is the vehicle they are using to make the investment / subsequent investments?
Who are the counterparties to any loans?
What's their investment horizon and planned exit?
What we don't necessarily want is some sort of Leveraged Buy Out scenario, as meeting the income requirements for servicing the debt (particularly in times of stress, you know like post a pandemic!) could become unsustainable and leave the club with loads of debt etc. and a sure fire route to administration.
On the flip side, I can't believe any investment case is predicated on the club going out of business. I expect the assets remaining in a default / liquidation wouldn't be of enough value to generate a sufficient return. A more plausible case may be that RAFC is a "loss-leader" with potential to prove the value of Smarter Scout and increase the valuation of that business sufficiently to generate palatable returns for LPs invested in the fund. That assumes a EM's fund vehicle is being used for investment. If this is the case, we would hopefully benefit by having high potential players come through the club that we could then sell on which is pretty much the model we have right now.
All this is speculation until we get the view of DA & EM's plans / investment thesis. |  | | |
| Club Statement on 13:46 - Feb 24 with 2400 views | D_Dale |
| Club Statement on 10:12 - Feb 24 by Quigley_dale |
How can a signing be 'exaggerated' it either happened, or as we subsequently found out, it didn't. |
'Kwadwo Baah, who joined our Academy in 2019, epitomises this philosophy. Though rumours of his signing by Manchester City have been exaggerated, he will undoubtedly go on to have an excellent career in the higher echelons of the football pyramid.'
How does a rumour become exaggerated?
But apart from this strange paragraph the statement is fairly reassuring, though if the directors are 'fully behind' BBM it seems certain he'll be manager to the end of the season. | | | |
| Club Statement on 13:48 - Feb 24 with 2384 views | Sandyman |
"However, we have a hugely talented manager in Brian Barry-Murphy".
Really? Perhaps the author of that quote should've watched a few games recently before writing those words. |  | | |
| Club Statement on 13:57 - Feb 24 with 2336 views | upthedale |
| Club Statement on 12:10 - Feb 24 by JPSDale |
From A Kelly Statement June 20
The loan agreements and their repayment conditions, along with potential exit agreement were not acceptable.
We have 2 new Directors that wanted to agree the terms of their EXIT BEFORE THEY ENTERED. How can this be perceived as a good thing ?
The club are now a marketing tool for their algorithms. We have had no statement from them as to their intensions. These guys might seem nice, but they play to win and that means they want a profit, or cut and run, which could leave the club in ruins if they burden us with players / staff / contracts that are not sustainable for the business they leave behind
Very Worried |
To be honest, I'd be more worried if they didn't want to be open and agree their/an exit plan. With this kind of investment, why wouldn't you have an exit plan? |  | | |
| Club Statement on 14:17 - Feb 24 with 2248 views | 49thseason |
| Club Statement on 12:10 - Feb 24 by JPSDale |
From A Kelly Statement June 20
The loan agreements and their repayment conditions, along with potential exit agreement were not acceptable.
We have 2 new Directors that wanted to agree the terms of their EXIT BEFORE THEY ENTERED. How can this be perceived as a good thing ?
The club are now a marketing tool for their algorithms. We have had no statement from them as to their intensions. These guys might seem nice, but they play to win and that means they want a profit, or cut and run, which could leave the club in ruins if they burden us with players / staff / contracts that are not sustainable for the business they leave behind
Very Worried |
The first rule of business is to read the exit clause. Any fool can sign a contract, but it takes an idiot to sign a contract without figuring out how they get out of it. | | | |
| Club Statement on 14:27 - Feb 24 with 2208 views | Brierls |
Where do we start with that one?! Key takeaways...
It’s well written and informative.
I’m pleased Andrew Kelly has assumed the role of Chairman, albeit currently on an interim basis.
It’s a close as you’ll get, without explicitly saying it, to the board are saying “blame us, not BBM”.
BBM isn’t in fear of losing his job because his job isn’t at risk.
Altman and Marcelli are now fully fledged board members.
Each of those could gave its own 20 page thread! |  | | |
| Club Statement on 14:46 - Feb 24 with 2121 views | Dalenet |
| Club Statement on 11:26 - Feb 24 by IOMDale |
You have to ask what has changed in the interim for Altman & Marcelli to suddenly be welcomed onto the board?
Have they agreed for a larger initial investment and compromised on any potential exit strategy? More clarification definitely required at the fans' forum. |
I guess the issue is whether they have been invited to join the board because of their shareholding rather than because they have been invited to increase their shareholding. Previously they wanted 51%. Nothing in the statement suggests that they have increased their shareholding but they are now inside the house.
We have an issue on access to cash to grow the club - or even sustain it at this level. If the new Board are qualified to support strategies to achieve that without increasing their shareholding (control) we would probably be happy. An investor wants to increase the value of their assets and if the club grew its income the share price goes up. The investor can choose to sell their shares at any time - if the Board have some reassurance that they won't ditch their shares and leave the club vulnerable that must be better than having an arms length shareholder that could do just that.
Lots of unanswered questions, but I am not spooked as yet. | | | |
| Club Statement on 15:48 - Feb 24 with 1930 views | 442Dale |
For clarification in case anyone is unsure: it is totally unacceptable to try and throw doubt on whether someone is a proper fan or supporter simply because they look at situations in detail, ask questions, point out discrepancies and present information to the fanbase in a respectful way.
It is perfectly ok to disagree with others, but the fans of this football club speak out and take action because they are supporters (without the need for speech marks). To support the club does not mean to blindly support everything those at the club do, if anything it’s the exact opposite. For examples of why this is the case, they’ve happened time and again a few miles down the road.
If you’re getting annoyed with loyal fans who care about the future of their club, ask yourself why they may feel that way before even considering making any remarks about them for holding those views. |  |
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| Club Statement on 16:31 - Feb 24 with 1810 views | Barrowdale |
I couldnt care less about the board because we wont have any fans left to support the board if we have to watch this garbage any longer.
We really dont have a “highly rated manager”. We have a clueless decent bloke. You could play 11 prem players in this style an we’d get beaten especially when they all play out of position. |  | | |
| Club Statement on 16:35 - Feb 24 with 1781 views | 49thseason |
| Club Statement on 14:27 - Feb 24 by Brierls |
Where do we start with that one?! Key takeaways...
It’s well written and informative.
I’m pleased Andrew Kelly has assumed the role of Chairman, albeit currently on an interim basis.
It’s a close as you’ll get, without explicitly saying it, to the board are saying “blame us, not BBM”.
BBM isn’t in fear of losing his job because his job isn’t at risk.
Altman and Marcelli are now fully fledged board members.
Each of those could gave its own 20 page thread! |
Brierls, I actually wondered at the start of the season if BBM had agreed to struggle along with the squad he has on the basis that he would not be sacked if they go down. The Board, quite properly, cut the budget to the bone when faced with a situation which meant no crowds and reduced income all round. The obvious risk being relegation on the one hand and oblivion on the other. If we can somehow avoid relegation, wonderful, if not then at least we get another chance to fix the budgets and bring in some "proper" players during the summer. I don't think BBM would have signed up for all this pressure if he also had to take on the responsibility of not getting relegated and I don't think the Board would have asked him to take it on without the insurance of another season after this one. In a way this sort of explains BBMs apparent lack of frustration with his players, he must know some / many are not really L1 standard so there isn't much point in laying into them and if they don't get relegated then BBM is a total hero.
And who knows where football will be by the end of the season? Will Wigan manage to find a buyer? What other clubs are effectively bust already with contracted players they can't afford?
Now that we have a new Interim Chairman and a couple of new Board members its probably time to cross everything and hope for the best whilst planning for the worst. A couple of wins on the trot would be wonderful. At this stage maybe a bit of optimism will go further than our usual "we are all doomed" mindset? Interesting times. | | | |
| Club Statement on 16:59 - Feb 24 with 1670 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Club Statement on 10:22 - Feb 24 by RotherhamDale |
Back to league 2 we go then. |
If we do go down to L2, this lot of interlectuals at the Club will look genuine clowns.
Not attractive to a developing CV. | | | |
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