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Youngster to City? 09:26 - Apr 28 with 3187 viewsIOMDale

Not the one you think:


UTDNFS

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Youngster to City? on 10:25 - Apr 28 with 3038 viewsDalenet

Good luck to the lad. He won't get his chance to play football at Dale
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Youngster to City? on 11:31 - Apr 28 with 2940 viewsToffeemanc

Youngster to City? on 10:25 - Apr 28 by Dalenet

Good luck to the lad. He won't get his chance to play football at Dale


It's crazy that he is seen as good enough for City to have him to have a look at, yet apparently not good enough for our first team.
It seems that somebodies judgement of the younger players currently at the club appears to be way off the mark.

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Youngster to City? on 11:42 - Apr 28 with 2921 viewsjudd

Youngster to City? on 11:31 - Apr 28 by Toffeemanc

It's crazy that he is seen as good enough for City to have him to have a look at, yet apparently not good enough for our first team.
It seems that somebodies judgement of the younger players currently at the club appears to be way off the mark.


He's with the elite development squad for them to have a closer look at him. He can't play for our first team on this basis, I would expect.

He was signed as a professional by us more or less straight from school.

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Youngster to City? on 11:51 - Apr 28 with 2886 viewsboromat

He's made 4 appearances for us.

I'm starting to think we see an early sale to a big club as more valuable than promoting players into the first team and developing them for ourselves for a sale later on.

But when clubs like Man City are spending hundreds of thousands on youngsters maybe that's the right thing for us to do.

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Youngster to City? on 11:56 - Apr 28 with 2867 viewsIOMDale

Youngster to City? on 11:51 - Apr 28 by boromat

He's made 4 appearances for us.

I'm starting to think we see an early sale to a big club as more valuable than promoting players into the first team and developing them for ourselves for a sale later on.

But when clubs like Man City are spending hundreds of thousands on youngsters maybe that's the right thing for us to do.


All I'll mention as a precautionary tale is that Bury did the same thing in the two or three years preceding their demise.

UTDNFS

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Youngster to City? on 12:03 - Apr 28 with 2847 viewsjonahwhereru

He is still quite slight. He has been pushed forward by the club in a not dissimilar way as Adshead. However without being forced into the first to and struggling to make an impact. Think the club have handled him well so far. Giving him tastes of the first team, seeing his skills are worth preserving with, but without pressuring the lad by playing in a team that was struggling.
He will be right up City’s street, being bought up on the possession retention based football that many Dale fans can’t abide. I do hope we see more of him in a Dale shirt, but L2 will be a tough environment for someone of his current stature to flourish in.
Interesting that after the Baah affair this arrangement was approved.
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Youngster to City? on 12:56 - Apr 28 with 2714 viewsSuddenLad

Youngster to City? on 12:03 - Apr 28 by jonahwhereru

He is still quite slight. He has been pushed forward by the club in a not dissimilar way as Adshead. However without being forced into the first to and struggling to make an impact. Think the club have handled him well so far. Giving him tastes of the first team, seeing his skills are worth preserving with, but without pressuring the lad by playing in a team that was struggling.
He will be right up City’s street, being bought up on the possession retention based football that many Dale fans can’t abide. I do hope we see more of him in a Dale shirt, but L2 will be a tough environment for someone of his current stature to flourish in.
Interesting that after the Baah affair this arrangement was approved.


It has nothing to do with the Baah affair. Ethan has been at City for a while, whilst they take a look at him. There will be dozens of young players going through the same process. Ethan and the club are fortunate that City have taken an interest but like Adshead and Matheson before him, that has come about because of his time and development whilst here.

It's win/win for both parties. It may all come to nothing, but both will have benefitted from the experience.

“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”

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Youngster to City? on 12:59 - Apr 28 with 2701 viewsboromat

Youngster to City? on 12:56 - Apr 28 by SuddenLad

It has nothing to do with the Baah affair. Ethan has been at City for a while, whilst they take a look at him. There will be dozens of young players going through the same process. Ethan and the club are fortunate that City have taken an interest but like Adshead and Matheson before him, that has come about because of his time and development whilst here.

It's win/win for both parties. It may all come to nothing, but both will have benefitted from the experience.


I had noticed he hadn't been playing for the youth team.

Poll: What are we more excited for?

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Youngster to City? on 14:21 - Apr 28 with 2524 viewsjonahwhereru

Youngster to City? on 12:56 - Apr 28 by SuddenLad

It has nothing to do with the Baah affair. Ethan has been at City for a while, whilst they take a look at him. There will be dozens of young players going through the same process. Ethan and the club are fortunate that City have taken an interest but like Adshead and Matheson before him, that has come about because of his time and development whilst here.

It's win/win for both parties. It may all come to nothing, but both will have benefitted from the experience.


Didn’t say it was anything to do with the Baah situation.

Simple noting the club were still happy to approve the sighter by City after the Baah debacle. Not that we have much choice but to be cosy with them.

Sense more loans from City coming our way in the near future.
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Youngster to City? on 14:31 - Apr 28 with 2488 viewsSuddenLad

Youngster to City? on 14:21 - Apr 28 by jonahwhereru

Didn’t say it was anything to do with the Baah situation.

Simple noting the club were still happy to approve the sighter by City after the Baah debacle. Not that we have much choice but to be cosy with them.

Sense more loans from City coming our way in the near future.


That would be no bad thing if it happened. They clearly have our club and youngsters on their radar.

“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled”

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Youngster to City? on 14:42 - Apr 28 with 2461 viewsJames1980

Youngster to City? on 14:31 - Apr 28 by SuddenLad

That would be no bad thing if it happened. They clearly have our club and youngsters on their radar.


I think some (note the word some) would disagree with you SL. If Citeh continue to loan us players that will probably mean the continuation of 2 things SOME of the fan base will not be happy with at all.

'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
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Youngster to City? on 14:59 - Apr 28 with 2417 viewsD_Alien

Youngster to City? on 14:42 - Apr 28 by James1980

I think some (note the word some) would disagree with you SL. If Citeh continue to loan us players that will probably mean the continuation of 2 things SOME of the fan base will not be happy with at all.


That would very much depend on any strings attached, which might prejudice our independence in terms of team selection, formation and tactics

Loans from clubs like City are unlikely to come without such T&Cs, and we most definitely do not want to become seen as a feeder club for City or anyone else. It might sound beguiling to some in terms of finance and esteem, but would in no way compensate for the loss of our soul

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Youngster to City? on 20:53 - Apr 28 with 2001 viewsJames1980

Youngster to City? on 14:59 - Apr 28 by D_Alien

That would very much depend on any strings attached, which might prejudice our independence in terms of team selection, formation and tactics

Loans from clubs like City are unlikely to come without such T&Cs, and we most definitely do not want to become seen as a feeder club for City or anyone else. It might sound beguiling to some in terms of finance and esteem, but would in no way compensate for the loss of our soul


I'd expect Man City loaning us players will depend on the manager we have and the style of play. If that is the case I'm guessing a few folk wouldn't be too happy if that meant BBM or a similar style of manager in charge of the dressing room playing tippy tappy football. Unless the style of football can evolve into something similar to the academy have been playing recently. If our first team played like that I would like to think fans would be eager to get their 2021/22 season ticket.

'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
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Youngster to City? on 23:41 - Apr 28 with 1816 viewsShun

How long does Brierley have on his contract here?
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Youngster to City? on 00:17 - Apr 29 with 1794 viewsShun

Youngster to City? on 23:41 - Apr 28 by Shun

How long does Brierley have on his contract here?


https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/november/ethanbrierleysigns/

Another 2 and a half years. Hopefully should be a healthy bid then if City want him.
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Youngster to City? on 10:37 - Apr 29 with 1608 viewsAtThePeake

Youngster to City? on 11:56 - Apr 28 by IOMDale

All I'll mention as a precautionary tale is that Bury did the same thing in the two or three years preceding their demise.


It was one of the few things Bury did well in the two or three years preceding their demise, I'd say. They got around £900k for Bedeau who never made an appearance for Aston Villa and is now playing in League Two. Around £400k for Foulds who never made an appearance for Everton and is now playing in League Two. They got six-figure fees for Ferry (yet to make an appearance at Southampton), Ruddy (0 appearances for Wolves now on the bench at Plymouth) and Obi (spent one year with Liverpool before being released, is now in non-league at Fylde).

Pretty decent business for players who didn't make the grade at a higher level. A lot of the clubs at the top end of the chain are more likely to pay money for players who have only played a handful of games but have potential that they can attempt to mould than they are for someone who has played 100 games in the lower leagues - look at the way the early interest in Callum Camps waned and then he eventually left on a free to a club in the same division. We may wish we saw more of these players but it might be more beneficial to take advantage of these clubs' desperation to not miss the next big thing by promoting them in the media and cashing in on them before they actually show that they're probably not going to be PL standard.

Tangled up in blue.

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Youngster to City? on 10:50 - Apr 29 with 1597 viewsIOMDale

Youngster to City? on 10:37 - Apr 29 by AtThePeake

It was one of the few things Bury did well in the two or three years preceding their demise, I'd say. They got around £900k for Bedeau who never made an appearance for Aston Villa and is now playing in League Two. Around £400k for Foulds who never made an appearance for Everton and is now playing in League Two. They got six-figure fees for Ferry (yet to make an appearance at Southampton), Ruddy (0 appearances for Wolves now on the bench at Plymouth) and Obi (spent one year with Liverpool before being released, is now in non-league at Fylde).

Pretty decent business for players who didn't make the grade at a higher level. A lot of the clubs at the top end of the chain are more likely to pay money for players who have only played a handful of games but have potential that they can attempt to mould than they are for someone who has played 100 games in the lower leagues - look at the way the early interest in Callum Camps waned and then he eventually left on a free to a club in the same division. We may wish we saw more of these players but it might be more beneficial to take advantage of these clubs' desperation to not miss the next big thing by promoting them in the media and cashing in on them before they actually show that they're probably not going to be PL standard.


That's true ATP; I was more referring to it as a potential sign of desperation, trying to plug financial black holes. There's definitely an upside to selling early though, as you allude to.

I just can't imagine our board negotiating such high fees for an outright purchase, though it's hard to gauge as we've traditionally sold at a lower price but with numerous add-ons. The obvious problem being that we're reliant on any youngster going on to fulfil their potential.

Also, it's likely that we attract so much talent to our academy because there is a clear pathway to the first team squad (or has been until this year, with the release of the second year scholars). This is purely hypothetical but if the club start to treat YTS lads purely as commodities to be sold at the earliest opportunity instead of looking to develop them personally and professionally, up to first team level, might it be that parents and the players themselves look at alternatives?

UTDNFS

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Youngster to City? on 11:21 - Apr 29 with 1549 views49thseason

Youngster to City? on 10:50 - Apr 29 by IOMDale

That's true ATP; I was more referring to it as a potential sign of desperation, trying to plug financial black holes. There's definitely an upside to selling early though, as you allude to.

I just can't imagine our board negotiating such high fees for an outright purchase, though it's hard to gauge as we've traditionally sold at a lower price but with numerous add-ons. The obvious problem being that we're reliant on any youngster going on to fulfil their potential.

Also, it's likely that we attract so much talent to our academy because there is a clear pathway to the first team squad (or has been until this year, with the release of the second year scholars). This is purely hypothetical but if the club start to treat YTS lads purely as commodities to be sold at the earliest opportunity instead of looking to develop them personally and professionally, up to first team level, might it be that parents and the players themselves look at alternatives?


I actually think kids come to Rochdale because we have a reputation for getting them into Premiership clubs. Parents will be much more impressed by the example of Matheson and Adshead than just getting their kids into the Rochdale 1st team.
The Demise of Bury and Macclesfield should mean that the demand for places at Rochdale is increasing, maybe that improves the quality of youngsters that end up being selected for the Academy and which in turn should increase their value to RAFC and others.
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Youngster to City? on 11:24 - Apr 29 with 1540 viewsAtThePeake

Youngster to City? on 10:50 - Apr 29 by IOMDale

That's true ATP; I was more referring to it as a potential sign of desperation, trying to plug financial black holes. There's definitely an upside to selling early though, as you allude to.

I just can't imagine our board negotiating such high fees for an outright purchase, though it's hard to gauge as we've traditionally sold at a lower price but with numerous add-ons. The obvious problem being that we're reliant on any youngster going on to fulfil their potential.

Also, it's likely that we attract so much talent to our academy because there is a clear pathway to the first team squad (or has been until this year, with the release of the second year scholars). This is purely hypothetical but if the club start to treat YTS lads purely as commodities to be sold at the earliest opportunity instead of looking to develop them personally and professionally, up to first team level, might it be that parents and the players themselves look at alternatives?


Very good point in your last paragraph - what's the point in joining Dale's academy if our whole plan is to move you to another academy as soon as some money is on the table?

Tangled up in blue.

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Youngster to City? on 11:27 - Apr 29 with 1528 viewsfitzochris

Youngster to City? on 11:24 - Apr 29 by AtThePeake

Very good point in your last paragraph - what's the point in joining Dale's academy if our whole plan is to move you to another academy as soon as some money is on the table?


Precisely that. Chris Dunphy, when chairman, said the model was to benefit the first-team for at least two seasons (or 100 appearances) before moving the player on for a sizable fee. That way the Academy has a dual benefit.

Blog: Rochdale 2018/19 part three: Getting points on the board

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Youngster to City? on 11:34 - Apr 29 with 1506 viewsIOMDale

Youngster to City? on 11:21 - Apr 29 by 49thseason

I actually think kids come to Rochdale because we have a reputation for getting them into Premiership clubs. Parents will be much more impressed by the example of Matheson and Adshead than just getting their kids into the Rochdale 1st team.
The Demise of Bury and Macclesfield should mean that the demand for places at Rochdale is increasing, maybe that improves the quality of youngsters that end up being selected for the Academy and which in turn should increase their value to RAFC and others.


Undoubtedly, though there's an argument to be made that some exposure to the rigours of first team football is of additional benefit. I'm sure a lot of these kids, as talented as they are, have probably had the opportunity to join club academies further up the chain so being able to develop at first team level and to be able to prove that you belong in league football is a big pull - it's certainly why the likes of Baah and Odoh have been tempted up north.

UTDNFS

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Youngster to City? on 13:01 - Apr 29 with 1403 viewsD_Alien

Youngster to City? on 11:34 - Apr 29 by IOMDale

Undoubtedly, though there's an argument to be made that some exposure to the rigours of first team football is of additional benefit. I'm sure a lot of these kids, as talented as they are, have probably had the opportunity to join club academies further up the chain so being able to develop at first team level and to be able to prove that you belong in league football is a big pull - it's certainly why the likes of Baah and Odoh have been tempted up north.


It's also why clubs higher up the chain loan their promising youngsters out to clubs at our level - sink or swim as it were, or at least gain the type of experience they need

There are pros and cons to both sides, i.e. sell early or sell after some benefit to the first team. There's no reason why we should adopt either approach as a another 'philosophy'. As ever, pragmatism and treating each young prospect on merit should be the way forward

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