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I think yes is the honourable answer. This club was a major beneficiary from the arcane Applying for re election fiascos back in the day. It would be increasingly crass not to support 3 up at this stage. Or at least 2 up and a test match.
I think yes is the honourable answer. This club was a major beneficiary from the arcane Applying for re election fiascos back in the day. It would be increasingly crass not to support 3 up at this stage. Or at least 2 up and a test match.
I think the latter would provide for a better solution
When playoffs were first introduced, it used to be between teams finishing at the bottom of a league against teams finishing at/near the top of the lower division
Not sure why this format was ever changed
3 up/down, Yes, with maybe top 2/bottom 2 automatic but then a third place based on a playoff fixture
I think yes is the honourable answer. This club was a major beneficiary from the arcane Applying for re election fiascos back in the day. It would be increasingly crass not to support 3 up at this stage. Or at least 2 up and a test match.
Both ourselves and York released a statement committing support to the “3up” campaign. Would be very disappointing if either club goes back on this or doesn’t continue to provide their voice to try and ensure the change is made. Our football club has proven time and again that doing the right thing matters.
“2up and a playoff where a L2 club may retain their place” would be a tough marketing campaign. And I’m not sure a 5 day test at Wembley would be an option. Hull are due to play Southampton and Middlesbrough for the next three years anyway.
If we are considering the National League as division 5 then I would advocate 3 up and down between divisions 1 and 2 and 4 up and down between divsion 2 and the National League (notionally div 5). Some form of play-off for the final spot to be kept. That would keep the bigger teams happier of a more immediate return and give the unfancied teams a bit more of a chance to try their luck in the league.
The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance.
2 up automatically, 1 via play-off. Bottom 3 down from League 2.
Simple and fair. 100% behind that. How the F can a team gain 100 + points from the NL and not deserve automatic promotion? Not just us, others as well.
I think the latter would provide for a better solution
When playoffs were first introduced, it used to be between teams finishing at the bottom of a league against teams finishing at/near the top of the lower division
Not sure why this format was ever changed
3 up/down, Yes, with maybe top 2/bottom 2 automatic but then a third place based on a playoff fixture
I think 2 automatic and the winner of the NL playoffs (teams that finished 2 to 6) versus the team that finishes third bottom in league 2 is potentially the sensible solution.
However the issue is, will the NL introduce the same financial controls and rules as the EFL and until they do, the EFL clubs will veto 3 up, 3 down system.
I think 2 automatic and the winner of the NL playoffs (teams that finished 2 to 6) versus the team that finishes third bottom in league 2 is potentially the sensible solution.
However the issue is, will the NL introduce the same financial controls and rules as the EFL and until they do, the EFL clubs will veto 3 up, 3 down system.
They already mirror the EFL financial controls (Salary Cost Management I believe it is called) this season I believe as a way to remove one of arguments against 3up/3down.
I find it a strange argument about financial controls. I can understand it used against "League 3", but not for promotion to the EFL. However many go up, they need to abide by the EFL rules once there (no spying) like everybody else, so surely that is fair already?
They already mirror the EFL financial controls (Salary Cost Management I believe it is called) this season I believe as a way to remove one of arguments against 3up/3down.
[Post edited 21 May 8:33]
Not sure that is true. The EFL impose a 50-60% salary v turnover cap on League Two. National League impose flat nominal caps on salary budgets. So they are not the same. Also the fit and proper persons test doesn't apply in the National League.
One of the arguments for not replicating the EFL limits is that EFL clubs receive a sizeable payment through the Football Pyramid revenue share. National League clubs don't get anything of note and therefore the National League find it hard to impose caps when the clubs don't get paid for operating costs in the way L2 clubs do.
I remember this question from the fans forum a few months back (25:28 in) - didn't want to be critical of George at the time by making a thing of it as I like him, but equally his answer whilst admirably honest didn't sit great with me in terms of doing the right thing.
That said, I've had loads of chats the last few weeks with York fans who feel had they been promoted 12 months ago it could have been a year too soon. 2 up does seem to give clubs time to fully look themselves in the mirror and rebuild so when they finally get their opportunity they don't bounce straight back down. Bit of a fence sit but I can see both sides.
I remember this question from the fans forum a few months back (25:28 in) - didn't want to be critical of George at the time by making a thing of it as I like him, but equally his answer whilst admirably honest didn't sit great with me in terms of doing the right thing.
That said, I've had loads of chats the last few weeks with York fans who feel had they been promoted 12 months ago it could have been a year too soon. 2 up does seem to give clubs time to fully look themselves in the mirror and rebuild so when they finally get their opportunity they don't bounce straight back down. Bit of a fence sit but I can see both sides.
That's pretty much where i stand on the issue. It's the same with promotion/relegation from the Championship to the Premier League. With a few notable exceptions, many of the teams promoted struggle and increasing the numbers promoted would simply exacerbate that
The point i made earlier in the thread about a playoff fixture taking place between a potential relegation from L2 team and potentially promoted team from the NL would at least address this issue, in a direct competitive fixture between the upper and lower leagues
2up/down2 and a playoff as suggested, after an initial playoff sequence between clubs finishing 3rd-6th in the NL
I'd be in favour of 2 up automatic and a 3rd via the playoffs. Don't think its fair to have to play a team in the league above for the chance to get promoted - its a totally different level, different wages. Once promoted, teams have the chance to prepare their squads for the higher league, so its irrelevant if they could/can compete whilst still in the NL. What matters is can they compete having had the chance to build, with the income that you get in L2 behind you. If, after all those advantages, you still finish bottom 3 then its fair enough you go down - as would be expected in every other league.
That's pretty much where i stand on the issue. It's the same with promotion/relegation from the Championship to the Premier League. With a few notable exceptions, many of the teams promoted struggle and increasing the numbers promoted would simply exacerbate that
The point i made earlier in the thread about a playoff fixture taking place between a potential relegation from L2 team and potentially promoted team from the NL would at least address this issue, in a direct competitive fixture between the upper and lower leagues
2up/down2 and a playoff as suggested, after an initial playoff sequence between clubs finishing 3rd-6th in the NL
Imagine winning the "playoffs" to then lose another playoff and not be promoted. That's even worse than 2UP.
Imagine winning the "playoffs" to then lose another playoff and not be promoted. That's even worse than 2UP.
Not at all, it'd just be the way things are settled in terms of the suitability of clubs finishing outside the top two compared with a club finishing third bottom of L2, bearing in mind the NL club will have more of a winning mentality
Imagine being a half decent L2 club that suddenly went on a poor run to finish third bottom after looking mid-table for much of the season, then automatically relegated...
Most of these posts are focusing on a NL perspective. Dale finished 2nd but with a huge points differential from 3rd, and any new system would have to be fair to clubs in both leagues, bearing in mind the structural differences in the EFL
On a serious note, I remember how bad Division 4 was before 1 up 1 down. You could be absolutely shyte and get away with it, as we often did. Introducing 1 up 1 down improved the quality of Division 4, and when it became 2 up 2 down the quality went up again. In theory 3 up 3 down would improve League Two further.
Would be good to hear from Dale and York ahead of the new season/next time there’s a focus on the situation where they reiterate their support for the 3up campaign.
Something the CAB could take forward too. Our reputation has never been so good, supporting the league where we created so many memories would only serve to increase our standing.
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