| Wycombe Ownership 00:21 - Oct 8 with 4145 views | oddjob007 |
Interesting article, although slightly misleading.
Mentions how their playing budget was threatened to drop a third to £1.2m (from £1.8m) which would have been the 3rd lowest in the division. An investor ensured that budget is now at £2.0m - which is a probably an additional decent L1 player’s salary.
Doesn’t really surprise you that they are where they are.
What’s our budget?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/decision-time-for-wycombe-wanderers-fans-on-t
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| Wycombe Ownership on 08:13 - Oct 8 with 4029 views | judd |
My brother met the American investor a while ago. He had looked at Bury and within 5 minutes had decided it was a basket case and he could not do business with the owner. |  |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 09:27 - Oct 8 with 3945 views | Molly |
| Wycombe Ownership on 08:13 - Oct 8 by judd |
My brother met the American investor a while ago. He had looked at Bury and within 5 minutes had decided it was a basket case and he could not do business with the owner. |
It took him so long??? | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 09:39 - Oct 8 with 3920 views | BuckTheTrend |
I presume the American Investor was the odious bearded buffoon "giving it large" in the Director's Box? If so, he needs to learn some dignity and decorum as an "invited guest". | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 18:49 - Oct 8 with 3680 views | scarrow |
| Wycombe Ownership on 09:39 - Oct 8 by BuckTheTrend |
I presume the American Investor was the odious bearded buffoon "giving it large" in the Director's Box? If so, he needs to learn some dignity and decorum as an "invited guest". |
That's him. He was still giving it large in the car park after the match |  |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 20:46 - Oct 8 with 3597 views | Dalenet |
I don't know what I believe anymore. DIdn't the thread on here about 4 months ago show that we had the second lowest budget but it was still well over £2m for the season before last? And then we increased the budget last year. So I can't believe Wycombe claim they can only afford £1.2m pa without an investor. We are royally fooked if that is true. | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 21:02 - Oct 8 with 3581 views | RAFCBLUE |
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2019/july/trust-agree-deal-in-principle-
I know a little bit about Rob Couhig and what is interesting is his involvement in Wycombe has kickstarted an energy which has led to this start.
There were rumours that Ainsworth was off in the close season and this investment has allowed him to push forwards but still with a relatively modest budget when compared to what should be the League 1 top 6.
Wycombe's ownership and governance means this choice went to their Trust members including their Trust’s Legacy Members — those who have held a season ticket for four or more consecutive seasons — for the acquisition of a majority share in the future.
It's something we could learn from IMHO and its the type of structuring that stops a bury fc situation occuring.
He might not be everyone's cup of tea but he is making a positive impact and doing that by broadly doing what he said he would do. |  |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 08:31 - Oct 9 with 3450 views | pioneer |
| Wycombe Ownership on 21:02 - Oct 8 by RAFCBLUE |
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2019/july/trust-agree-deal-in-principle-
I know a little bit about Rob Couhig and what is interesting is his involvement in Wycombe has kickstarted an energy which has led to this start.
There were rumours that Ainsworth was off in the close season and this investment has allowed him to push forwards but still with a relatively modest budget when compared to what should be the League 1 top 6.
Wycombe's ownership and governance means this choice went to their Trust members including their Trust’s Legacy Members — those who have held a season ticket for four or more consecutive seasons — for the acquisition of a majority share in the future.
It's something we could learn from IMHO and its the type of structuring that stops a bury fc situation occuring.
He might not be everyone's cup of tea but he is making a positive impact and doing that by broadly doing what he said he would do. |
A question that comes to mind is, if his ownership of minor league baseball team new orleans was so successful, and he is such a died in the wool sports fan, why is he no longer the owner. There might be a perfectly valid reason. But there is often a risk that these international ‘investors’ have no particular love of the club they invest in. They could walk away from wycombe just as they walked away from New Orleans. | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 09:35 - Oct 9 with 3401 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Wycombe Ownership on 08:31 - Oct 9 by pioneer |
A question that comes to mind is, if his ownership of minor league baseball team new orleans was so successful, and he is such a died in the wool sports fan, why is he no longer the owner. There might be a perfectly valid reason. But there is often a risk that these international ‘investors’ have no particular love of the club they invest in. They could walk away from wycombe just as they walked away from New Orleans. |
He's a business trader.
In 1993, Mr Couhig was responsible for moving baseball's Triple A Zephyrs to New Orleans. In 1995, he led a group of local investors in the acquisition of the team from its Denver-based owner and created the public-private partnership that built a new baseball park for the team.
Serving as president from 1993 to 2000, he describes them as one of the most successful teams in minor league baseball.
In November 1997, he bought the New Orleans Riverboat Gamblers football team from Donnie Pate. Mr Couhig renamed the team the New Orleans Storm and relocated them from Tad Gormley stadium to Zephyr Field.
The team folded after the 1999 season.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out at Wycombe. I do like the way in which 4+ year season ticket holders had a vote on accepting him as part of their Trust. It's a good Trust set up at Wycombe. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 20:33 - Oct 9 with 3272 views | pioneer |
| Wycombe Ownership on 09:35 - Oct 9 by RAFCBLUE |
He's a business trader.
In 1993, Mr Couhig was responsible for moving baseball's Triple A Zephyrs to New Orleans. In 1995, he led a group of local investors in the acquisition of the team from its Denver-based owner and created the public-private partnership that built a new baseball park for the team.
Serving as president from 1993 to 2000, he describes them as one of the most successful teams in minor league baseball.
In November 1997, he bought the New Orleans Riverboat Gamblers football team from Donnie Pate. Mr Couhig renamed the team the New Orleans Storm and relocated them from Tad Gormley stadium to Zephyr Field.
The team folded after the 1999 season.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out at Wycombe. I do like the way in which 4+ year season ticket holders had a vote on accepting him as part of their Trust. It's a good Trust set up at Wycombe. |
So his history includes moving teams and folding teams....not someone I would want involved in my football club. | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 20:58 - Oct 9 with 3250 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Wycombe Ownership on 20:33 - Oct 9 by pioneer |
So his history includes moving teams and folding teams....not someone I would want involved in my football club. |
Moving and folding teams is unfortunately a nasty part of American sports.
The baseball team moved from Denver by Couhig is itself moving back to Kansas for 2020.
It will be interesting to see how he fares at Wycombe and what his exit strategy might be.
As our friend down the road saw, buying into a club is relatively easy. Getting out and making money is something that rarely happens in football, even at the top level. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 21:24 - Oct 9 with 3228 views | Cleedale |
| Wycombe Ownership on 20:46 - Oct 8 by Dalenet |
I don't know what I believe anymore. DIdn't the thread on here about 4 months ago show that we had the second lowest budget but it was still well over £2m for the season before last? And then we increased the budget last year. So I can't believe Wycombe claim they can only afford £1.2m pa without an investor. We are royally fooked if that is true. |
Me too Dalenet.
Working backwards from what David Bottomley was quoting in that article (assuming of course that is fact) we need around £350K per month to break even. Assuming that's over the whole year and not sure where figures are from but that makes £4.2M yearly.
At the 60%? outlined playing budget that means a playing expenditure of around £2.5M. Obv. quite happy to be corrected.
Here's that article again...but only putting it on for the quoted figures btw.
https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/toy-industry-veteran-who-be | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 08:26 - Oct 10 with 3146 views | judd |
| Wycombe Ownership on 21:24 - Oct 9 by Cleedale |
Me too Dalenet.
Working backwards from what David Bottomley was quoting in that article (assuming of course that is fact) we need around £350K per month to break even. Assuming that's over the whole year and not sure where figures are from but that makes £4.2M yearly.
At the 60%? outlined playing budget that means a playing expenditure of around £2.5M. Obv. quite happy to be corrected.
Here's that article again...but only putting it on for the quoted figures btw.
https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/toy-industry-veteran-who-be |
"...stepping up as chief executive..." - Stepping up? He's in charge of administration isn't he? How do you "step up" from a board of directors to being head pen pusher?
Definitely sees himself as owner/chairman, in my opinion. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 09:57 - Oct 10 with 3093 views | D_Alien |
| Wycombe Ownership on 08:26 - Oct 10 by judd |
"...stepping up as chief executive..." - Stepping up? He's in charge of administration isn't he? How do you "step up" from a board of directors to being head pen pusher?
Definitely sees himself as owner/chairman, in my opinion. |
There's an expectation that someone in a leading role should 'set the tone' for the business, but the chairman is mute and the CEO tone deaf |  |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 10:20 - Oct 10 with 3061 views | Dalenet |
| Wycombe Ownership on 08:26 - Oct 10 by judd |
"...stepping up as chief executive..." - Stepping up? He's in charge of administration isn't he? How do you "step up" from a board of directors to being head pen pusher?
Definitely sees himself as owner/chairman, in my opinion. |
I guess by moving from non executive to Executive then you do step up! Whether he was the right man, only the Board know.
Others have suggested that a Board member shouldn't take a salary from the club. The CEO and the Company Secretary are paid employees (and need to be) and due to their roles they sit at the Board. The other Board members should be unsalaried. Ultimately the integrity of the full board is key as they have the right to dismiss the CEO if they feel that he or she isn't performing. The fact that the said job holder also sits on the Board is irrelevant.
Whether Mr B has aspirations to be Chairman time will tell. But he won't get paid as Chairman whereas he does as CEO. I suspect he values the full time role more right now. I would hope that we never go down the route of having an Executive Chairman.
I agree that both roles need people with good communication skills that can motivate the employees and embrace the fan base and wider stakeholder community. Between them they need to engage all audiences. Time will tell if they do.....but they are nowhere near there yet IMHO | | | |
| Wycombe Ownership on 20:06 - Oct 10 with 2917 views | judd |
| Wycombe Ownership on 10:20 - Oct 10 by Dalenet |
I guess by moving from non executive to Executive then you do step up! Whether he was the right man, only the Board know.
Others have suggested that a Board member shouldn't take a salary from the club. The CEO and the Company Secretary are paid employees (and need to be) and due to their roles they sit at the Board. The other Board members should be unsalaried. Ultimately the integrity of the full board is key as they have the right to dismiss the CEO if they feel that he or she isn't performing. The fact that the said job holder also sits on the Board is irrelevant.
Whether Mr B has aspirations to be Chairman time will tell. But he won't get paid as Chairman whereas he does as CEO. I suspect he values the full time role more right now. I would hope that we never go down the route of having an Executive Chairman.
I agree that both roles need people with good communication skills that can motivate the employees and embrace the fan base and wider stakeholder community. Between them they need to engage all audiences. Time will tell if they do.....but they are nowhere near there yet IMHO |
Aye.
I know the article was written by someone else so the stepping up comment can be attributed there, but the original article was edited after inaccuracies were highlighted on here. Think what you will.
The CE is appointed by the unpaid board to manage the day to day administration, as I understand, therefore the CE is an underling, a paid employee, whilst the rest of the unpaid board is populated with successful business owners.
I may be wrong but I think Colin Garlick.embraced the role of CE and secretary, as well as secretary of the Stadium Company. If my assumption here is correct we now have two paid roles instead of one, whilst one of the paid employees publicly bemoans the monthly running costs. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 10:01 - Oct 11 with 2759 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Wycombe Ownership on 20:06 - Oct 10 by judd |
Aye.
I know the article was written by someone else so the stepping up comment can be attributed there, but the original article was edited after inaccuracies were highlighted on here. Think what you will.
The CE is appointed by the unpaid board to manage the day to day administration, as I understand, therefore the CE is an underling, a paid employee, whilst the rest of the unpaid board is populated with successful business owners.
I may be wrong but I think Colin Garlick.embraced the role of CE and secretary, as well as secretary of the Stadium Company. If my assumption here is correct we now have two paid roles instead of one, whilst one of the paid employees publicly bemoans the monthly running costs. |
To add to your post judd, this is the first time (certainly that I can remember) that we have chosen a CEO who is a shareholder.
The last two incumbents, Colin Garlick (ex-Macclesfield Town) and Russ Green (ex-Hartlepool United) had an experience of football CEO duties elsewhere before joining us as did James Mason (ex-Bradford City) who served as interim when the position with Green became untenable.
I'm all for owner managed football clubs - if you look at my posts about Exeter and Wycombe I think the more active and varied shareholders you can have at this level the better and it stops the circumstances we have seen at Lower Gigg ever occuring.
However, we look like we have reduced our board quorum by 1 since the current CEO was a voice on the board alongside a previous CEO and now there is one less voice.
I might be wrong on that, but the more voices we have contributing (including this forum btw) the better it is going to be for a club our size which is built on sustainable principles and longevity. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 10:25 - Oct 11 with 2727 views | judd |
| Wycombe Ownership on 10:01 - Oct 11 by RAFCBLUE |
To add to your post judd, this is the first time (certainly that I can remember) that we have chosen a CEO who is a shareholder.
The last two incumbents, Colin Garlick (ex-Macclesfield Town) and Russ Green (ex-Hartlepool United) had an experience of football CEO duties elsewhere before joining us as did James Mason (ex-Bradford City) who served as interim when the position with Green became untenable.
I'm all for owner managed football clubs - if you look at my posts about Exeter and Wycombe I think the more active and varied shareholders you can have at this level the better and it stops the circumstances we have seen at Lower Gigg ever occuring.
However, we look like we have reduced our board quorum by 1 since the current CEO was a voice on the board alongside a previous CEO and now there is one less voice.
I might be wrong on that, but the more voices we have contributing (including this forum btw) the better it is going to be for a club our size which is built on sustainable principles and longevity. |
"we have chosen" ?
I am unsure about the board make-up and the number of voices.
Gina is no longer a director, but I am unsure if she was an associate director as well as secretary, likewise Frances's type of directorship, and what rights associate directors have at board level. The new secretary is also a director, having re-joined the board after the departure of Chris Dunphy.
I love your use of sustainable principles and longevity, I really do. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 10:40 - Oct 11 with 2717 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Wycombe Ownership on 10:25 - Oct 11 by judd |
"we have chosen" ?
I am unsure about the board make-up and the number of voices.
Gina is no longer a director, but I am unsure if she was an associate director as well as secretary, likewise Frances's type of directorship, and what rights associate directors have at board level. The new secretary is also a director, having re-joined the board after the departure of Chris Dunphy.
I love your use of sustainable principles and longevity, I really do. |
"we" as in the football club, judd.
And longevity is what is all about. Long after we are all dead and gone hopefully this football club will remain and be providing the same types of engagement and enjoyment many have had (and continue to have over the years).
I do think the only way to to that in League 1 and below is to have an active ownership level of Trust which keeps the decision makers accountable and honest.
Once you get into the Championship, money talks and those with the money want their say. That can be good but it also can destroy the organisation - and they money providers see it as a vehicle and not as a club.
We have been very lucky since 1987 to have Kilpatrick (David) and then Dunphy provide 32 years of stable leadership and effectively that 32 years ended with us owning our own ground again and no debt.
This new board is a transition for all of us and them as individuals too but however someone gets in charge and whoever is in charge they are only a temporary custodian. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 11:10 - Oct 11 with 2687 views | fitzochris |
| Wycombe Ownership on 10:40 - Oct 11 by RAFCBLUE |
"we" as in the football club, judd.
And longevity is what is all about. Long after we are all dead and gone hopefully this football club will remain and be providing the same types of engagement and enjoyment many have had (and continue to have over the years).
I do think the only way to to that in League 1 and below is to have an active ownership level of Trust which keeps the decision makers accountable and honest.
Once you get into the Championship, money talks and those with the money want their say. That can be good but it also can destroy the organisation - and they money providers see it as a vehicle and not as a club.
We have been very lucky since 1987 to have Kilpatrick (David) and then Dunphy provide 32 years of stable leadership and effectively that 32 years ended with us owning our own ground again and no debt.
This new board is a transition for all of us and them as individuals too but however someone gets in charge and whoever is in charge they are only a temporary custodian. |
My understanding is that the current board reformation started with the passing of Paul Hazelhurst, who was a close associate of Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin. I can only guess that this altered the boardroom dynamic in a way that both Chris and Bill felt it was time to move on. Andy Kelly was also brought back into the fold.
What currently remains unclear is how much money the current directors put into the club. I know Andy Kelly sponsors the shirts, but I imagine he benefits because his letting agency rents property to players et al. Do the others put money in? Is that even their role, or are they there because of their expertise in business and local connections? And what is the role of the Chairman in the current set up?
What is clear is that the supporters definitely are putting their cold hard cash into the club and any questions they have should not be ignored. |  |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 13:11 - Oct 11 with 2583 views | judd |
| Wycombe Ownership on 11:10 - Oct 11 by fitzochris |
My understanding is that the current board reformation started with the passing of Paul Hazelhurst, who was a close associate of Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin. I can only guess that this altered the boardroom dynamic in a way that both Chris and Bill felt it was time to move on. Andy Kelly was also brought back into the fold.
What currently remains unclear is how much money the current directors put into the club. I know Andy Kelly sponsors the shirts, but I imagine he benefits because his letting agency rents property to players et al. Do the others put money in? Is that even their role, or are they there because of their expertise in business and local connections? And what is the role of the Chairman in the current set up?
What is clear is that the supporters definitely are putting their cold hard cash into the club and any questions they have should not be ignored. |
In the last set of accounts (to May 2018) £24,498 was owed to then directors. 4 directors and 1 employee have furnished personal guarantees limited to £14,000.
I understand there to be a joining fee of £26,000 in return for shares, which is dead money effectively (unless you can then somehow get a job at the club as well), so they do put money into the club and are prepared to guarantee a limited sum.
Don't forget that almost all current directors work for free in keeping professional football at league 1 level in the town and should be commended for that. It was the case previously that all directors worked for free in keeping the club going. | |
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| Wycombe Ownership on 13:43 - Oct 11 with 2544 views | fitzochris |
| Wycombe Ownership on 13:11 - Oct 11 by judd |
In the last set of accounts (to May 2018) £24,498 was owed to then directors. 4 directors and 1 employee have furnished personal guarantees limited to £14,000.
I understand there to be a joining fee of £26,000 in return for shares, which is dead money effectively (unless you can then somehow get a job at the club as well), so they do put money into the club and are prepared to guarantee a limited sum.
Don't forget that almost all current directors work for free in keeping professional football at league 1 level in the town and should be commended for that. It was the case previously that all directors worked for free in keeping the club going. |
Absolutely. The questions were there to be answered, so thank you. | |
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