| China crisis regarding sponsorship? 23:08 - Aug 15 with 3054 views | Butty101 |
The deal always seemed wishful thinking |  |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:17 - Aug 15 with 2461 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
F**k China, generally. Fake sponsors, dodgy owners, cheaply made goods and, a virus. |  |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:27 - Aug 15 with 2441 views | RonManager |
Yet if you go there, and get off the beaten track, as I have done, they are the most wonderful genuine people you could wish to meet.
Dual reality. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:28]
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| I can remember when the internet was all fields |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:36 - Aug 15 with 2425 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:27 - Aug 15 by RonManager |
Yet if you go there, and get off the beaten track, as I have done, they are the most wonderful genuine people you could wish to meet.
Dual reality. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:28]
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I get that, but we shouldn't embrace their fake capitalist crap. Manufacture more here, and Saints to be sponsored by Draper Tools again. | |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:37 - Aug 15 with 2423 views | dirk_doone |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:27 - Aug 15 by RonManager |
Yet if you go there, and get off the beaten track, as I have done, they are the most wonderful genuine people you could wish to meet.
Dual reality. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:28]
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Most people in the world are good people just trying to make their way in life and that's certainly true of the Chinese. It's only privileged people, who have their life laid on a plate, but still think they are hard done by, who have the time and opportunity to look down on and resent even the existence of foreigners.
If you look at Chinese people in this country, they don't have chips on their shoulders, complain about racism or the police. They are too busy working hard and doing the best they can for their children, who, in turn study as hard as they can to repay their parents' hard work. They will still be subject to racism, not get equal opportunities as BBC newsreaders or MPs but they don't complain: they just get on with working hard and making themselves successful. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:45]
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:39 - Aug 15 with 2419 views | RonManager |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:36 - Aug 15 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
I get that, but we shouldn't embrace their fake capitalist crap. Manufacture more here, and Saints to be sponsored by Draper Tools again. |
Good point, well made. | |
| I can remember when the internet was all fields |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:45 - Aug 15 with 2408 views | RonManager |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:37 - Aug 15 by dirk_doone |
Most people in the world are good people just trying to make their way in life and that's certainly true of the Chinese. It's only privileged people, who have their life laid on a plate, but still think they are hard done by, who have the time and opportunity to look down on and resent even the existence of foreigners.
If you look at Chinese people in this country, they don't have chips on their shoulders, complain about racism or the police. They are too busy working hard and doing the best they can for their children, who, in turn study as hard as they can to repay their parents' hard work. They will still be subject to racism, not get equal opportunities as BBC newsreaders or MPs but they don't complain: they just get on with working hard and making themselves successful. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:45]
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As per Gennaro, good point, well made. I just love China, but bringing it back to LG, it stinks and once again the PL I think are guilty of not probing deep enough into these 'companies'. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:46]
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| I can remember when the internet was all fields |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:46 - Aug 15 with 2402 views | dirk_doone |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:45 - Aug 15 by RonManager |
As per Gennaro, good point, well made. I just love China, but bringing it back to LG, it stinks and once again the PL I think are guilty of not probing deep enough into these 'companies'. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:46]
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What did the Chinese do to Gennaro? I always thought he was quite prosperous.
As for SFC, after my initial scepticism about Gao, who, let's face it, we all know is not particularly wealthy, I have been very impressed by how he has turned the club around, sacking Les Reed, appointing Ralph and making good signings. Maybe it was his daughter or just the people he appointed to the board but there is now more optimism that the club is well run and making progress than there has been for years. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:51]
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 00:01 - Aug 16 with 2373 views | RonManager |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:46 - Aug 15 by dirk_doone |
What did the Chinese do to Gennaro? I always thought he was quite prosperous.
As for SFC, after my initial scepticism about Gao, who, let's face it, we all know is not particularly wealthy, I have been very impressed by how he has turned the club around, sacking Les Reed, appointing Ralph and making good signings. Maybe it was his daughter or just the people he appointed to the board but there is now more optimism that the club is well run and making progress than there has been for years. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:51]
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Couldn't agree more, onwards and upwards. | |
| I can remember when the internet was all fields |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 00:04 - Aug 16 with 2366 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:46 - Aug 15 by dirk_doone |
What did the Chinese do to Gennaro? I always thought he was quite prosperous.
As for SFC, after my initial scepticism about Gao, who, let's face it, we all know is not particularly wealthy, I have been very impressed by how he has turned the club around, sacking Les Reed, appointing Ralph and making good signings. Maybe it was his daughter or just the people he appointed to the board but there is now more optimism that the club is well run and making progress than there has been for years. [Post edited 15 Aug 2020 23:51]
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Yeah, my beef is two-fold;
Football: Dodgy sponsors and dodgy owners
Political: Bring more manufacturing back to the UK and stop relying on cheap Chinese crap. Wish and Amazon is full of it. This country should stop being a service driven country and get back to making things again. | |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 01:01 - Aug 16 with 2316 views | areasix |
On the look out for either another sponsor called LG or I have heard that they have been courting Ann Summers because they won’t pull out after you just get started.
I wrote a bit a few months ago about having to get a loan out and that mr chinaman has no money to do anything with so if we don’t sell some players especially the loan players cash won’t be king with us as we won’t have any. I expect to hear of new owners soon after he has had to do a fire sale |  | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 05:50 - Aug 16 with 2225 views | Ron11 |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 00:04 - Aug 16 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
Yeah, my beef is two-fold;
Football: Dodgy sponsors and dodgy owners
Political: Bring more manufacturing back to the UK and stop relying on cheap Chinese crap. Wish and Amazon is full of it. This country should stop being a service driven country and get back to making things again. |
Part of the blame for that can aimed at Margaret Thatcher.
It's ironically amusing how suddenly 'apprenticeships' are the new thing to keep this country moving, to provide people who actually have hand and craft skills ( I assume I can't say 'craftsmanship' anymore, it would have to be craftpersonship').
I completed a four year mechanical engineering apprenticeship at Chatham Dockyard - they took in an average of 400 apprentices every September (as did Portsmouth and Devonport), mostly boys and girls who did not have the A levels required for University, or just did not want to go to university.
Trades included just about everything you can think of, mechanical and electrical engineers, plumbers, copper smiths, boiler makers, rope makers, sail makers, pattern makers , machinists, welders, shipwrights, pipe fitters, motor mechanics, bricklayers,carpenters. In 1982 during the Falklands conflict, Chatham and the other Naval Dockyards worked round the clock to keep the Navy moving. Then in 1983 in thanks for all the hard work, Thatcher closed Chatham putting thousands out of work (the area has never been the same since) and at the same time ending the production line of thousands of highly skilled trades people, especially in England.
These days we now have the humiliation of seeing our 'Queen' cruise ships being built in France and Germany, car production mostly by foreign manufacturers (MG is now Chinese!) and so on. At least our warships are still built on the Clyde, ( that would be our final humiliation). | | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 07:09 - Aug 16 with 2175 views | grumpy |
We should concentrate on manufacturing quality and leave places like China etc to manufacture low end.
In the past this country produced the best Ships,Planes and Cars etc,there has to be a way we can do that again.
Our invisible earnings,Gas and Oil and Entertainment Industry can keep this country afloat while we make the changes.
I am aware of the argument that we cant compete with countries paying low wages to enable them to produce cheap goods such as what has happened to our steel industry.
There has to be a way and there is but it will take more inventive minds than mine to find that.
We have become a nation of shopkeepers selling produce from the rest of the world when we should be manufacturing to sell to the world.
Britain is still a great country with some of the most inventive minds in the world.
The Vaccine that we all need to fight this virus will more than likely be found in this Country(Oxford)and is not far away,that's typical of our inventiveness.
Perhaps we need to take some hard times for the sake of our children when we travel down the road to recovery..
As for our Club,,whoever said we must stand by Ralph,and I assume the owner would have had something to do with that,deserves a lot of credit and has shown this club in a very good light. [Post edited 16 Aug 2020 7:32]
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 07:50 - Aug 16 with 2127 views | saint22 |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 00:04 - Aug 16 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
Yeah, my beef is two-fold;
Football: Dodgy sponsors and dodgy owners
Political: Bring more manufacturing back to the UK and stop relying on cheap Chinese crap. Wish and Amazon is full of it. This country should stop being a service driven country and get back to making things again. |
No chance of manufacturing becoming big here, you need a Hard working mentality and this country doesn’t have that, under 30s they all want to coast Along
All our workers that graft are from a pbroad and we know what’s happening to them
Plus thatcher and her crew killed off the idea of trainees etc | | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 08:30 - Aug 16 with 2089 views | Bicester_North |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 07:50 - Aug 16 by saint22 |
No chance of manufacturing becoming big here, you need a Hard working mentality and this country doesn’t have that, under 30s they all want to coast Along
All our workers that graft are from a pbroad and we know what’s happening to them
Plus thatcher and her crew killed off the idea of trainees etc |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 09:06 - Aug 16 with 2024 views | Chesham_Saint |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 07:09 - Aug 16 by grumpy |
We should concentrate on manufacturing quality and leave places like China etc to manufacture low end.
In the past this country produced the best Ships,Planes and Cars etc,there has to be a way we can do that again.
Our invisible earnings,Gas and Oil and Entertainment Industry can keep this country afloat while we make the changes.
I am aware of the argument that we cant compete with countries paying low wages to enable them to produce cheap goods such as what has happened to our steel industry.
There has to be a way and there is but it will take more inventive minds than mine to find that.
We have become a nation of shopkeepers selling produce from the rest of the world when we should be manufacturing to sell to the world.
Britain is still a great country with some of the most inventive minds in the world.
The Vaccine that we all need to fight this virus will more than likely be found in this Country(Oxford)and is not far away,that's typical of our inventiveness.
Perhaps we need to take some hard times for the sake of our children when we travel down the road to recovery..
As for our Club,,whoever said we must stand by Ralph,and I assume the owner would have had something to do with that,deserves a lot of credit and has shown this club in a very good light. [Post edited 16 Aug 2020 7:32]
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We have become a nation of shopkeepers? Someone on here the other day was complaining that we were NO LONGER a nation of shopkeepers (as in Bonaparte’s view). Which is it?
I concur on Gao though. He might not be very rich, but we do seem to have a stable ship at the moment. |  |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 09:51 - Aug 16 with 1966 views | arfurdent |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 09:06 - Aug 16 by Chesham_Saint |
We have become a nation of shopkeepers? Someone on here the other day was complaining that we were NO LONGER a nation of shopkeepers (as in Bonaparte’s view). Which is it?
I concur on Gao though. He might not be very rich, but we do seem to have a stable ship at the moment. |
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| And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 10:24 - Aug 16 with 1933 views | grumpy |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 09:06 - Aug 16 by Chesham_Saint |
We have become a nation of shopkeepers? Someone on here the other day was complaining that we were NO LONGER a nation of shopkeepers (as in Bonaparte’s view). Which is it?
I concur on Gao though. He might not be very rich, but we do seem to have a stable ship at the moment. |
Read that again,Chesham. I said we HAVE become a nation of shopkeepers. Shops that closing down fast. [Post edited 16 Aug 2020 10:26]
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 10:26 - Aug 16 with 1929 views | Kennington |
Now is the perfect time for the U.K. to start making things again. Isn’t that part of the point of Brexit to free ourselves and become a self sustaining powerhouse? We have loads unemployed and the right level of disincentive and incentive will enable the Jeremy Kyle generation to have no choice but to take jobs. People are people, there’s a reason why Eastern European’s work hard and Brits in the main don’t. They need the money.
As to LD Sports, I’ll miss them as they’re so random and weird, I think of it as an oddity of the modern game. Much like sponsors of years gone by that I have absolutely no idea what they did - AAP3 and Sanderson for example. Do those companies even exist anymore? Not heard of Friends Provident in a long time either. | |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 10:36 - Aug 16 with 1907 views | dirk_doone |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 10:26 - Aug 16 by Kennington |
Now is the perfect time for the U.K. to start making things again. Isn’t that part of the point of Brexit to free ourselves and become a self sustaining powerhouse? We have loads unemployed and the right level of disincentive and incentive will enable the Jeremy Kyle generation to have no choice but to take jobs. People are people, there’s a reason why Eastern European’s work hard and Brits in the main don’t. They need the money.
As to LD Sports, I’ll miss them as they’re so random and weird, I think of it as an oddity of the modern game. Much like sponsors of years gone by that I have absolutely no idea what they did - AAP3 and Sanderson for example. Do those companies even exist anymore? Not heard of Friends Provident in a long time either. |
Interesting times. Do great powers rise again? The Roman empire, the Greek empire, the Mongol empire etc all rose and fell but never rose again. I doubt that Italy, Greece or Mongolia will ever regain the pre-eminence they once had in the world. The success of our industry was built on importing cheap materials from our colonies and then selling them the manufactured products. | |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? (n/t) on 10:46 - Aug 16 with 1896 views | TripleNiemi |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:36 - Aug 15 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
I get that, but we shouldn't embrace their fake capitalist crap. Manufacture more here, and Saints to be sponsored by Draper Tools again. |
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| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 10:51 - Aug 16 with 1886 views | TripleNiemi |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 23:36 - Aug 15 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
I get that, but we shouldn't embrace their fake capitalist crap. Manufacture more here, and Saints to be sponsored by Draper Tools again. |
Even when Draper were our sponsors they manufactured only a small amount here in the UK. Stanley were world renowned for making decent quality British tools but even they nowadays are nearly as dire as Draper are now.
That said, no reason we cannot get back to producing quality products again and buying British. | |
| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 17:20 - Aug 16 with 1765 views | GasGiant |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 05:50 - Aug 16 by Ron11 |
Part of the blame for that can aimed at Margaret Thatcher.
It's ironically amusing how suddenly 'apprenticeships' are the new thing to keep this country moving, to provide people who actually have hand and craft skills ( I assume I can't say 'craftsmanship' anymore, it would have to be craftpersonship').
I completed a four year mechanical engineering apprenticeship at Chatham Dockyard - they took in an average of 400 apprentices every September (as did Portsmouth and Devonport), mostly boys and girls who did not have the A levels required for University, or just did not want to go to university.
Trades included just about everything you can think of, mechanical and electrical engineers, plumbers, copper smiths, boiler makers, rope makers, sail makers, pattern makers , machinists, welders, shipwrights, pipe fitters, motor mechanics, bricklayers,carpenters. In 1982 during the Falklands conflict, Chatham and the other Naval Dockyards worked round the clock to keep the Navy moving. Then in 1983 in thanks for all the hard work, Thatcher closed Chatham putting thousands out of work (the area has never been the same since) and at the same time ending the production line of thousands of highly skilled trades people, especially in England.
These days we now have the humiliation of seeing our 'Queen' cruise ships being built in France and Germany, car production mostly by foreign manufacturers (MG is now Chinese!) and so on. At least our warships are still built on the Clyde, ( that would be our final humiliation). |
That's too simplistic, as is the partisan criticism of Margaret Thatcher rather than many other sources to blame going back to many Labour ministers in the seventies whose lack of foresight and fear of the TUC saw money thrown at keeping British Manufacturing locked in the past until it was too late. Chatham closed because it was not required. What would you have done - kept all the Leanders and Rothesays going just to keep the dockyard open? You are closer to home when you mention shipbuilding. Britain's success in financial services is also its greatest failure - there is too much demand for short term returns on capital investment. The city has no interest in providing capital for long term investment as in rebuilding our manufacturing capability and even less interest in businesses with small numbers of high value products such as ships. But as always one of the greatest sources of lack of support for UK PLC is our very own Government Agencies. Almost no Government Department will award a contract to a British Company - today all are forced into joint ventures and collaborations. THanks to the MoD, even the last of our aerospace industries cannot build so much as a helicopter without joining forces with Lockheed Martin and our warships are now joint ventures with Thales. We have lost our train building capability because the DfT is the most incompetent Agency of all. I thought even the most rancid Union official had finally realised the futility of trying to blame today's economic problems on 1980s Monetarism so I'm surprised you brought out the corpse for yet another pointless kicking. | | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 18:53 - Aug 16 with 1724 views | Ron11 |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 17:20 - Aug 16 by GasGiant |
That's too simplistic, as is the partisan criticism of Margaret Thatcher rather than many other sources to blame going back to many Labour ministers in the seventies whose lack of foresight and fear of the TUC saw money thrown at keeping British Manufacturing locked in the past until it was too late. Chatham closed because it was not required. What would you have done - kept all the Leanders and Rothesays going just to keep the dockyard open? You are closer to home when you mention shipbuilding. Britain's success in financial services is also its greatest failure - there is too much demand for short term returns on capital investment. The city has no interest in providing capital for long term investment as in rebuilding our manufacturing capability and even less interest in businesses with small numbers of high value products such as ships. But as always one of the greatest sources of lack of support for UK PLC is our very own Government Agencies. Almost no Government Department will award a contract to a British Company - today all are forced into joint ventures and collaborations. THanks to the MoD, even the last of our aerospace industries cannot build so much as a helicopter without joining forces with Lockheed Martin and our warships are now joint ventures with Thales. We have lost our train building capability because the DfT is the most incompetent Agency of all. I thought even the most rancid Union official had finally realised the futility of trying to blame today's economic problems on 1980s Monetarism so I'm surprised you brought out the corpse for yet another pointless kicking. |
You contemptuously mention 'Rothesays and Leanders at Chatham' and seemingly forget the massive amount of experience and technical expertise at Chatham in the nuclear submarine refitting complex, where the first ever refit of a Valiant class boat was completed followed by many others and also the successful decontamination and return to service of Britain's first nuclear submarine, HMS Dreadnought.It was one of the best nuclear submarine facilities in the world and most certainly was required and in excellent shape. | | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 19:04 - Aug 16 with 1715 views | GasGiant |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 18:53 - Aug 16 by Ron11 |
You contemptuously mention 'Rothesays and Leanders at Chatham' and seemingly forget the massive amount of experience and technical expertise at Chatham in the nuclear submarine refitting complex, where the first ever refit of a Valiant class boat was completed followed by many others and also the successful decontamination and return to service of Britain's first nuclear submarine, HMS Dreadnought.It was one of the best nuclear submarine facilities in the world and most certainly was required and in excellent shape. |
THis is not about the capability of the workforce Ron, and I take your point about all the dockyard skills, it is about need. I say again, would you have kept Chatham open when it was no longer needed just to keep people in work? THat is exactly the reason we lost so many other industries you lament - Unions forcing a timid Labour Government in the seventies to prop up useless overmanning while competitors abroad became leaner, fitter, and faster, and yet you cite keeping open Chatham as an example of what we should have done! It had nothing to do. It was not needed. The Navy no longer needed three bases in the south. Plymouth was always going to stay so it was between Chatham and Pompey. It is obvious that strategically a nuclear base in the Thames estuary had no future, and the silting of the Medway and the long narrow channel to reach deep water put it way behind Devonport as the English submarine base. Portsmouth had advantages in the eighties that made it a clear choice as well - it was the carrier base for a start. Everything has its time, and it is hugely sad to walk round the old Chatham Dockyard today and sense the colossal amount of tradition and pride cast away, but that is our fate. | | | |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 05:39 - Aug 17 with 1552 views | Ron11 |
| China crisis regarding sponsorship? on 19:04 - Aug 16 by GasGiant |
THis is not about the capability of the workforce Ron, and I take your point about all the dockyard skills, it is about need. I say again, would you have kept Chatham open when it was no longer needed just to keep people in work? THat is exactly the reason we lost so many other industries you lament - Unions forcing a timid Labour Government in the seventies to prop up useless overmanning while competitors abroad became leaner, fitter, and faster, and yet you cite keeping open Chatham as an example of what we should have done! It had nothing to do. It was not needed. The Navy no longer needed three bases in the south. Plymouth was always going to stay so it was between Chatham and Pompey. It is obvious that strategically a nuclear base in the Thames estuary had no future, and the silting of the Medway and the long narrow channel to reach deep water put it way behind Devonport as the English submarine base. Portsmouth had advantages in the eighties that made it a clear choice as well - it was the carrier base for a start. Everything has its time, and it is hugely sad to walk round the old Chatham Dockyard today and sense the colossal amount of tradition and pride cast away, but that is our fate. |
Well yes I take on board your comments (pardon the loose pun).
Quite a lot of the personnel with the Nuclear expertise at Chatham relocated to Devonport and Rosyth - many of them didn't want to, of course.
There was also a BP refinery on the estuary at the Isle Of Grain, which also closed (now that you have reminded me) because of the stranglehold the unions had over manning, working hours etc.
Anyway the skills I learned have looked after me, never had a problem finding work and it seems we are harder to find these days. Very sad that other countries have continued this kind of training to a larger degree than the UK - time to change that.
I took my son to the apprentice museum at Portsmouth Dockyard. He was amazed that young lads actually made things like that by hand - how times have changed. | | | |
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