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Too far left for the middle ground voters in the south. Not progressively modern socialist enough to keep disaffected voters in the north. Hamstrung in his attempts to modernise the party by the all powerful unions who are still rooted in the 20th century. You could argue that Johnson’s success is not down to the fact that he is “clever” (God don’t we all wish that we had studied the “classics” - they come in so handy when dealing with a pandemic) but by the Opposition’s constant ability to shoot themselves in their collective feet. You could argue that Blair was successful despite the Party and it is clear that the rancour he caused with the far left of the Party is still a festering wound. The Greens and LibDems have picked up votes which shows that there is still some life in opposition votes thankfully. Despite the BBC telling us what an awful time Labour have had of the recent elections, they have gone up from being 12 points behind the Tories in the 2019 vote to 7 points behind now. Progress of sorts, but painfully so. I can’t see their fortunes picking up until they stop the infighting and concentrate their firepower on winning the next election, not constantly undermining their own leader. Starmer has two massive battles on his hands. Not only does he need to prove to the electorate that Labour have what it takes to take this country forward after 10 years of appalling austerity, but he has to do that with a large faction of his own party doing their level best to pull the rug from under him at every opportunity. Does he compromise and risk the chance of become left in a neither one thing or another situation, or does he go for broke and risk his leadership position by pushing forward modernist reforms against the will of the far Left?
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Starmer’s dilemma on 11:44 - May 10 with 1270 views
To win my vote Labour has to accept Brexit, forget squabbles with the Tories and offer real alternatives to Tory policies particularly to poorer areas. Also he needs to continue to strengthen the shadow cabinet somehow though they are elected often by the powerful extreme left.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 12:48 - May 10 with 1219 views
You do have to laugh at Starmer. He keeps saying he "takes full responsibility" for the dismal showing at the local elections... and then fires everyone else.
I watched PMQ's the other day where Starmer had his usual 6 questions for Boris Johnson. All six were wasted on funding for the PM's flat refurbishment. That isn't what the people want to hear. They want to hear what Starmer and the Labour Party plan for the future of Britain.
Next time he considers who to sack next - he'd do well to take a good, long look in the mirror.
Old School is Cool
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Starmer’s dilemma on 13:03 - May 10 with 1204 views
You do have to laugh at Starmer. He keeps saying he "takes full responsibility" for the dismal showing at the local elections... and then fires everyone else.
I watched PMQ's the other day where Starmer had his usual 6 questions for Boris Johnson. All six were wasted on funding for the PM's flat refurbishment. That isn't what the people want to hear. They want to hear what Starmer and the Labour Party plan for the future of Britain.
Next time he considers who to sack next - he'd do well to take a good, long look in the mirror.
I’m no Blair fan, but he did manage to get himself elected despite heavy opposition within his own party. As for Starmer’s reshuffle. It is not unusual for these to happen, especially after elections. Starmer has been in post now for a year and will have a better idea who he wants and where. No one I know received any cams pain information from the Labour Party so it’s no surprise that the person tasked with running the logistics of the campaign has been moved on. Apart from the fighting within, he faces a massive problem in trying to make anything stick on Teflon Man Johnson. No matter what he does the public seem to lap it up. As for Brexit, I don’t see Labour trying to reheat that meal. To me he seems to just want to get in with the job of rebuilding the country with a different ideology. Apart from the very small Rejoin Party I don’t think anyone is championing that cause now.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 15:53 - May 10 with 1140 views
His dilemma is far simpler than that - he is fighting the Daily Fail reading Brexit brigade who feast on reality TV and the hope of winning the lottery, whilst cheering on a faux leader who they have zero in common with yet see as their saviour
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Starmer’s dilemma on 16:17 - May 10 with 1131 views
His dilemma is far simpler than that - he is fighting the Daily Fail reading Brexit brigade who feast on reality TV and the hope of winning the lottery, whilst cheering on a faux leader who they have zero in common with yet see as their saviour
So the Tories got 13,905,520 votes in the last election whilst the Daily Fail sells on average of 1,134,184 copies a day.
Saint22 strikes again. I expect the Maths to get even more bizarre when we see his Summer Shopping List for the Saints.
His dilemma is far simpler than that - he is fighting the Daily Fail reading Brexit brigade who feast on reality TV and the hope of winning the lottery, whilst cheering on a faux leader who they have zero in common with yet see as their saviour
I don't watch reality TV - too many overweight peasants.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 16:35 - May 10 with 1117 views
Blair was successful involving the UK in a war in the Middle East (causing thousands of deaths and casualties) without asking the people, and also successful in opening the floodgates of uncontrolled immigration (in a bitter attempt to rub the noses of the right in it) causing a continuing overload on the infrastructure of this country and irreversibly changing it for ever, again without consulting those whose votes put him in power. And the poisonous little scumbag still has the nerve to poke his snout into the running of this country when he should actually be in jail for crimes against the British and Iraqi people.
Blair is the only Labour PM in history to have won three general elections. The vision of New Labour'a middle ground idealism is what swept the party to power in 1997 in a spirit of optimism the country has not known since and on the backs of driving a red wedge into the blue wall of the south in an inverse of what is happening today. There are few leaders of any party whose career did not end in either failure or death and Blair is in that rare group who got out in his own time and manner of choosing. His determination to forge an alliance with the USA come what may is now acknowledged as failure, but at the time this strategy (orchestrated by Mandelson) was seen as way of buying a declining world power a seat at the top table for the next 20 years. We know now there were no WMD, and he perhaps suspected it, despite evidence that Saddam would have acquired them if he could, And if you don't think that is successful could you name a Labour politician who has done more?
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Starmer’s dilemma on 18:20 - May 10 with 1062 views
And what about the readership pal? Factor in its oshi cousin The Torygraph and there you have it Oh and the few who still read the Sun
People who read Tory papers tend to vote Tory - why is that even being discussed? It is the trendy lefty assortment of young lawyers, comedians and actors who fill the columns of the Guardian you need to be thinking about. How many White van men and blue collar workers who were once the staple of Labour's northern vote identify with the endless wokeness that stifles debate and bans any argument that doesn't follow the prevailing liberal left orthodoxy on race relations, immigration Brexit, BLM, taking the knee and other issues that tend to have a different slant in Halifax than they do in Hampstead? Labour chose to allow in a liberal left elite that is no longer in line with the many traditional working class apirants who see everything they are proud of dismissed, ridiculed or demolished on every news broadcast and panel game show by every trendy comic or "activist" given a platform for their views. The problem, Saint22 is that every time some berk like Nish Kumar opens his gob to slag off Boris Johnson or to sterotype posh Tories in their Bullingdon clubs, there is one person laughing (you probably) and nine people vowing never ever to vote for anything he supports ever again. Until you recognise and acknowledge this basic truth you will still be on here bleating uselessly about posh Tories and fascists and all the rest of your adolescent bollocks in ten years time.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 21:57 - May 10 with 937 views
People who read Tory papers tend to vote Tory - why is that even being discussed? It is the trendy lefty assortment of young lawyers, comedians and actors who fill the columns of the Guardian you need to be thinking about. How many White van men and blue collar workers who were once the staple of Labour's northern vote identify with the endless wokeness that stifles debate and bans any argument that doesn't follow the prevailing liberal left orthodoxy on race relations, immigration Brexit, BLM, taking the knee and other issues that tend to have a different slant in Halifax than they do in Hampstead? Labour chose to allow in a liberal left elite that is no longer in line with the many traditional working class apirants who see everything they are proud of dismissed, ridiculed or demolished on every news broadcast and panel game show by every trendy comic or "activist" given a platform for their views. The problem, Saint22 is that every time some berk like Nish Kumar opens his gob to slag off Boris Johnson or to sterotype posh Tories in their Bullingdon clubs, there is one person laughing (you probably) and nine people vowing never ever to vote for anything he supports ever again. Until you recognise and acknowledge this basic truth you will still be on here bleating uselessly about posh Tories and fascists and all the rest of your adolescent bollocks in ten years time.
Spot on.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 22:12 - May 10 with 923 views
People who read Tory papers tend to vote Tory - why is that even being discussed? It is the trendy lefty assortment of young lawyers, comedians and actors who fill the columns of the Guardian you need to be thinking about. How many White van men and blue collar workers who were once the staple of Labour's northern vote identify with the endless wokeness that stifles debate and bans any argument that doesn't follow the prevailing liberal left orthodoxy on race relations, immigration Brexit, BLM, taking the knee and other issues that tend to have a different slant in Halifax than they do in Hampstead? Labour chose to allow in a liberal left elite that is no longer in line with the many traditional working class apirants who see everything they are proud of dismissed, ridiculed or demolished on every news broadcast and panel game show by every trendy comic or "activist" given a platform for their views. The problem, Saint22 is that every time some berk like Nish Kumar opens his gob to slag off Boris Johnson or to sterotype posh Tories in their Bullingdon clubs, there is one person laughing (you probably) and nine people vowing never ever to vote for anything he supports ever again. Until you recognise and acknowledge this basic truth you will still be on here bleating uselessly about posh Tories and fascists and all the rest of your adolescent bollocks in ten years time.
Spot on. Traditional Labour voters can't associate with woke Labour anymore. Until they see it, admit it, listen, understand it, they will never be in power again.
To win my vote Labour has to accept Brexit, forget squabbles with the Tories and offer real alternatives to Tory policies particularly to poorer areas. Also he needs to continue to strengthen the shadow cabinet somehow though they are elected often by the powerful extreme left.
Absolutely agree.
I'm sick of the constant attacks on the Conservatives because they are not backed up by anything meaningful. It's all "oh we wouldn't have done that", but you barely ever hear what the alternative view is BEFORE said event. It's very easy to offer a retrospective view, but not so easy to do proper research and have a genuine alternative view beforehand.
I expect the opposition to challenge the incumbent government and not only are the current Labour party unelectable, they are also a p*ss poor opposition. The best opposition out there is sadly Nicola Sturgeon and us lot can't vote for them.
The Lid Dems are buried as well. This country is currently a one-party nation and it'll take a genius opposition leader backed up by able deputies to displace that. I can't see anyone who can do that currently.
I think it can't be empathised enough how strong an opposition should be to hold people accountable.
Spot on. Traditional Labour voters can't associate with woke Labour anymore. Until they see it, admit it, listen, understand it, they will never be in power again.
[Post edited 10 May 2021 22:12]
You are right. Voters want self serving, uncaring, greedy, incompetent people like Johnson, Patel, Hancock etc. They need to wise up and stop giving a damn about us poor folks.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 10:20 - May 11 with 786 views
You are right. Voters want self serving, uncaring, greedy, incompetent people like Johnson, Patel, Hancock etc. They need to wise up and stop giving a damn about us poor folks.
Soggy I know it’s mental health week; are you feeling better now that’s off your chest. Your comments epitomise why Labour need policies not just verbal bile.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 10:41 - May 11 with 773 views
Soggy I know it’s mental health week; are you feeling better now that’s off your chest. Your comments epitomise why Labour need policies not just verbal bile.
Not really mate. This government are a total embarrassment and the opposition are way too busy stitching each other up. It’s my kids I worry about. I can’t see a decent future for this country whilst the electorate continually let mediocrity rise to the top. We are a nation of cap doffers and it seems to be ingrained in us that we should be ruled by those who consider themselves our betters rather than our peers.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 11:17 - May 11 with 757 views
He just comes across as boring. He lacks the charm and charisma that Boris has. The voters prefer a lovable rogue to someone honest and dull. Chuka Umunna, who had real charm and came across as a British Obama, is the only man who might have led Labour to victory in an election but he fell out with Corbyn too soon so now it's just a case of what might have been, as it was when the wrong Miliband became their leader.
But, it's interesting to note that Boris's Old Etonian charm, which works a treat in England, doesn't go down quite so well in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Celts have a preference for more dour characters with working class backgrounds.
Anyway, the vaccine gratitude factor was always going to ensure a big majority for the party in government.
Good to see you're spouting what I said on Pap's woke a web, that ship has sailed son, you're 12-18 months behind.
He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone
Not really mate. This government are a total embarrassment and the opposition are way too busy stitching each other up. It’s my kids I worry about. I can’t see a decent future for this country whilst the electorate continually let mediocrity rise to the top. We are a nation of cap doffers and it seems to be ingrained in us that we should be ruled by those who consider themselves our betters rather than our peers.
You'll never leave the UK though, just whinge from within, we left the EU and you cried fors months and now this, I am Labour but I accept the South is too concerned with house prices and washing the car on a Sunday for a real progressive Labour, how many days have you been on strike in your life?
He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone
Starmer’s dilemma on 11:30 - May 11 by barry_sanchez
You'll never leave the UK though, just whinge from within, we left the EU and you cried fors months and now this, I am Labour but I accept the South is too concerned with house prices and washing the car on a Sunday for a real progressive Labour, how many days have you been on strike in your life?
Why should I leave my place of birth? I have never shed one tear over Brexit. Yes, I have been on strike. I was even a deputy Father of the Chapel when I was in a print union in the 80’s. Instead of launching a factually incorrect personal attack, why don’t you deal with the actual point? If you are Labour as you profess, what do they need to do to make themselves electable?
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Starmer’s dilemma on 12:00 - May 11 with 693 views
Why should I leave my place of birth? I have never shed one tear over Brexit. Yes, I have been on strike. I was even a deputy Father of the Chapel when I was in a print union in the 80’s. Instead of launching a factually incorrect personal attack, why don’t you deal with the actual point? If you are Labour as you profess, what do they need to do to make themselves electable?
Throw out liberal sops like you for a start.
Appeal to the mill town north thats been taken for granted and used and also laughed at for for being backward in actually having the audacity to like ones Country as they've been marginalised in the name of multiculturalism, then appeal by taking back some of the centre ground to get the vote back in middle England, heaven knows why I am in dialogue with you as its all beyond you.
He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone
Starmer’s dilemma on 12:00 - May 11 by barry_sanchez
Throw out liberal sops like you for a start.
Appeal to the mill town north thats been taken for granted and used and also laughed at for for being backward in actually having the audacity to like ones Country as they've been marginalised in the name of multiculturalism, then appeal by taking back some of the centre ground to get the vote back in middle England, heaven knows why I am in dialogue with you as its all beyond you.
Is that you being “nuanced” Barry? It still isn’t working.
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Starmer’s dilemma on 12:10 - May 11 with 677 views
Is that you being “nuanced” Barry? It still isn’t working.
SOG, I feel when I converse with you I can't be nuanced , you don't have that capability to actually look and see humour through it or sometimes meaningful comment, the only way to exchange with you is hammer blows that are crude, blunt and forceful simply by your very nature.
[Post edited 11 May 2021 12:20]
He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone
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