| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict 10:55 - May 9 with 2004 views | SaintsNews |
 Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict 9th May 2022 10:51Saints fans turned on Ralph Hasenhuttl at the end of the game, but the problems on the pitch lie far deeper than just the manager, it is about a lack of leadership on the pitch that is costing us so dearly.  27
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:29 - May 9 with 1865 views | SonicBoom |
It really is an odd situation. You are right to point out that we are a few points from the top 10. But come one, we have also only won once in the last ten games. If this team is anywhere near the top ten that says more about the league than it does about us.
You are right that key players are not performing. I don't really care about Broja, he's not one of ours anyway so really should be dropped.
But yes the players need to look at themselves but I still think Ralph carries the can. He plays players that are out of form and then there are those like Armstrong who got left out for Long, then was still on the bench when Ralph put Redmond up front instead of him. Next game Armstrong is apparently good enough to start the game.
Anyway for me there is a fundamental problem with management that so many players can be out of form at the same time. One or two is to be expected but all at the same time suggests deeper issues. What they are I have no idea.
Im a big fan of JWP but as you pointed out, there is a total lack of leadership on the pitch - so it's pretty clear JWP is not working as a captain. It would make sense that Romeu is the captain but again he has gone from one of our best and most consistent performers to looking ponderous and lethargic.
You simply have to look at Ralph. If it were me I'd be going mental on the sidelines and if someone wasn't putting it in, I'd hook them and put the younger lads in. What's happened to Smallbone? He got good reviews and now can't get into a losing side. Long however gets in so where is our famous belief in giving youth a chance.
To me it all looks muddled and no one seems to be leading on or off the pitch.
Hopefully we stay up and have a decent summer. for me Ralph gets to start next season and see how we go but there has to be an improvement as currently we really do look shambolic. Liverpool next and frankly there isn't a Saints fan that isn't fearing the worst. |  | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:46 - May 9 with 1832 views | SaintNick |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:29 - May 9 by SonicBoom |
It really is an odd situation. You are right to point out that we are a few points from the top 10. But come one, we have also only won once in the last ten games. If this team is anywhere near the top ten that says more about the league than it does about us.
You are right that key players are not performing. I don't really care about Broja, he's not one of ours anyway so really should be dropped.
But yes the players need to look at themselves but I still think Ralph carries the can. He plays players that are out of form and then there are those like Armstrong who got left out for Long, then was still on the bench when Ralph put Redmond up front instead of him. Next game Armstrong is apparently good enough to start the game.
Anyway for me there is a fundamental problem with management that so many players can be out of form at the same time. One or two is to be expected but all at the same time suggests deeper issues. What they are I have no idea.
Im a big fan of JWP but as you pointed out, there is a total lack of leadership on the pitch - so it's pretty clear JWP is not working as a captain. It would make sense that Romeu is the captain but again he has gone from one of our best and most consistent performers to looking ponderous and lethargic.
You simply have to look at Ralph. If it were me I'd be going mental on the sidelines and if someone wasn't putting it in, I'd hook them and put the younger lads in. What's happened to Smallbone? He got good reviews and now can't get into a losing side. Long however gets in so where is our famous belief in giving youth a chance.
To me it all looks muddled and no one seems to be leading on or off the pitch.
Hopefully we stay up and have a decent summer. for me Ralph gets to start next season and see how we go but there has to be an improvement as currently we really do look shambolic. Liverpool next and frankly there isn't a Saints fan that isn't fearing the worst. |
You are right it does say a lot about the League we are in at the moment, the Premier League is a case of have and have nots, it is compact in the middle, in the past still only being 4 points off the top 10 with two games to go would have been seen as success, now we are demanding the manager be sacked.
Mind you 5 years ago we were demanding the manager be sacked after taking us to 8th and almost winning us the League cup.
Yes its a funny league but the positions dont lie come the final day. we should be careful what we wish for look what happened back in 2017, 12 months later we were almost relegated |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:46 - May 9 with 1832 views | kingolaf |
Your constant defence of Ralph is ridiculous.
The man has run his course here and needs to go. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:05 - May 9 with 1790 views | SaintNick |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:46 - May 9 by kingolaf |
Your constant defence of Ralph is ridiculous.
The man has run his course here and needs to go. |
I havent defended Ralph at any point , I have just pointed out the facts as I see them, tell me where you think Im wrong and i am happy to listen and debate them but to just demand the sacking of a manager without looking at the big picture is also ridiculous.
To blindly demand he be sacked without looking at that picture is short sighted, I'm not defending Raplp, im just putting the bigger picture, if we had won the last two games then we would now be 10th battling Brighton for 9th, that is after an awful run in the past 10 games.
So Ralph must have been doing something right in the previous 26 games that we play so badly but still could finish 11th or 12th even now.
We have to look at what has gone wrong, has Ralph selected the wrong teams,? in the main no, the team that lost to Chelsea was just about the best side we could have put out.
Has he told around 5 players to go out there and go from playing out of their skin to being attrocious, did he tell Broja to not score again in the Premier League this season after February 9th when he scored his last league goal ?
Would another manager have done better ? After the game on Saturday various people told me we should get Bielsa or Dyche, two managers that have done far worse than us this season | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:39 - May 9 with 1727 views | sledger |
this garbage run started after the west ham cup game when he changed the majority of the front line players,the biggest game of the season at that time and they dont get picked and please dont throw the result back at me we got through because of a worldy goal and west ham being inept.He lost the dressing room from then on. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:39 - May 9 with 1727 views | Sadoldgit |
The way Ralph likes us to play requires every player to be on his game and doing what is expected. When it works we have played some of the best football I have seen from this club. When it doesn’t work we play some of the worst football. The problem is we don’t have the players who can do it consistently. Players like Stuart Armstrong are really quality when they are in form, when they are not they are just bang average. I thought he had a decent game but he did give the ball away in dangerous positions a few times. Bednarek has been decent for us before but is going through a poor spell. Salisu needs someone solid beside him and his form has now dipped. Having said that we leave our CBS badly exposed all too often. I would certainly play Adam Armstrong and Che Adams up top in the next two games and bring Lyanco next to Salisu. If fully fit Romeu must play alongside JWP. I would also start with Tella and Stuey in the next 2. Dump the press. Look to keep it tight and play on the break making sure that if either FB bombs on, that their is adequate cover if we lose the ball.
As depressing as the recent games have been, at least they have exposed some gapping holes that the new owners need to address in the summer. |  | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:40 - May 9 with 1723 views | saints__fan__73 |
Illingsworth's reasons for us being shite
The players
The manager
The fans
Anyone else apart from the owners and those who run the club |  |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 14:34 - May 9 with 1652 views | Butty101 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:46 - May 9 by SaintNick |
You are right it does say a lot about the League we are in at the moment, the Premier League is a case of have and have nots, it is compact in the middle, in the past still only being 4 points off the top 10 with two games to go would have been seen as success, now we are demanding the manager be sacked.
Mind you 5 years ago we were demanding the manager be sacked after taking us to 8th and almost winning us the League cup.
Yes its a funny league but the positions dont lie come the final day. we should be careful what we wish for look what happened back in 2017, 12 months later we were almost relegated |
Nick we are sleeping walking into relegation (just like Swansea in 2017-18). I cant see us getting another point this season. What will probably save us is Leeds terrible goal difference.
Thank god we got a stuffy undeserved win against Arsenal!
Bar that little purple patch just after christmas, the season has been pretty poor.
I doubt we can afford to sack Ralph. |  |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 17:04 - May 9 with 1555 views | kingolaf |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:05 - May 9 by SaintNick |
I havent defended Ralph at any point , I have just pointed out the facts as I see them, tell me where you think Im wrong and i am happy to listen and debate them but to just demand the sacking of a manager without looking at the big picture is also ridiculous.
To blindly demand he be sacked without looking at that picture is short sighted, I'm not defending Raplp, im just putting the bigger picture, if we had won the last two games then we would now be 10th battling Brighton for 9th, that is after an awful run in the past 10 games.
So Ralph must have been doing something right in the previous 26 games that we play so badly but still could finish 11th or 12th even now.
We have to look at what has gone wrong, has Ralph selected the wrong teams,? in the main no, the team that lost to Chelsea was just about the best side we could have put out.
Has he told around 5 players to go out there and go from playing out of their skin to being attrocious, did he tell Broja to not score again in the Premier League this season after February 9th when he scored his last league goal ?
Would another manager have done better ? After the game on Saturday various people told me we should get Bielsa or Dyche, two managers that have done far worse than us this season |
Nick, the man is a tactical dunce that gets outwitted most of the time.
His selections are terrible. You mentioned the Chelsea match. The way we set up was suicidal, and worse was exactly what Tuchel had planned for.
It is obvious to a blind man that the players have given up on him. Pros do this, and they don’t do it lightly.
I can’t see us moving forward under Ralph. I can’t see Sports Republic trusting him with a transfer budget. I can’t see Ralph repairing his relationship with the players. I can’t see me or many others being persuaded now that Ralph is the man.
He absolutely has to go. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 17:38 - May 9 with 1529 views | A1079 |
I am completely torn on whether Ralph should go but I must admit I am finding it hard to defend him and I have been less patient with some previous managers who arguably have been no worse in their return of results or league position come the end of a season.
Where does the fault sit with this 2nd season last quarter collapse and how can you rationalise it?
Is it the manager, is it the players, both or is there something else?
The argument by the pro lobby is that we should almost be grateful to just survive and we are where we are because we are no better than that and we would not do better under anyone else.
So what are we saying - that our players are just not good enough, there is not enough depth in quality and yet - the beginning of this season we were being told that this squad is stronger than last! Add into the fact that prior to this last quarter we have achieved some remarkable results this season.
Are we saying that Brighton, Palace and Brentford have a better squad than us? Surely not. I believe our team is better or certainly as good but those 3 teams are still playing as if every match matters even though for Palace and Brighton arguably they don't need to. So, are our players downing tools or has the manager completely lost the ability to motivate and lift the team?
We have had some highs with Ralph, but we have had too many lows and the lows have been very costly (and often embarrassing). His selection choices are bewildering at times and his ability to use subs or apply tactics appear hit and miss. As someone else has said, the players look as confused as they are inept at times.
All that said, many of these players are experienced but can't seem to do the basics. There is a lack of leadership on the pitch, indeed I would say none at all at the moment.
Some players have not come on this season - Che Adams normally works hard but he was brought as a striker and yet his sum total is 7 goals - woeful. Diallo - odd moments of good play but all too rare. Bednarek has had a poor season; Salisu looked like he was progressing but has regressed recently. Brojo does not look interested or motivated at all. Stuart Armstrong when he is on his game is excellent but again looks out of sorts. Adam Armstrong - the new Shane Long - plenty of running around but does not look like he is going to score a hatful of goals; Redmond still picked for heaven knows what reason.........and the list goes on.
I recall when we lost at Villa I said I hoped that it was a bad day at the office and not the start of a collapse! The warning signs were there against West Ham in the cup and then Villa so why has the season collapsed like that after a good run.
Whether or not we get relegated and even by some freak we get something against Liverpool, it cannot cloud the fact that fundamentally there is something not right at management level and with the team and if Ralph stays and he spends some money he better realise that he has past the last chance saloon and he is lucky to be still in the job as I am not sure many clubs would tolerate it - not even smaller clubs than ours. Most fans of most clubs whichever level they are at, expect the players that pull on the shirt to work for it and for the manager to appear to have some direction and ability to instill spirit, motivation and a sense of being able to steady the ship when the seas get choppy.
Pundits, commentators and even some of our own fans seem to think that we are wrong to expect better - it is not that I expect us to have a free ticket to stay in the PL or rise up the table, but I do expect those that pull on the shirt to play right up to the final minute of the final game of the season as if it really mattered and at the moment, our players seem a million miles from that and our manager seems completely out of touch. There was no need for us as a club, team etc to be where we are today going into the final games hoping others drop points. It should not have ever come to this. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 17:58 - May 9 with 1508 views | Saintsforeverj |
Year after year we have sold our best players and brought in replacements for less. We have had lots of managers over the past 10 years and not really got anywhere. As fans, if we want more, we ought to be demanding our owners invest in the team and buy some really good players - not Adams, Armstrong, Redmond for less than 15 million. We need to spend 35 million plus each, on some really good players. Then we can properly judge the numerous managers we have had. [Post edited 9 May 2022 18:03]
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:13 - May 9 with 1483 views | saint22 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:05 - May 9 by SaintNick |
I havent defended Ralph at any point , I have just pointed out the facts as I see them, tell me where you think Im wrong and i am happy to listen and debate them but to just demand the sacking of a manager without looking at the big picture is also ridiculous.
To blindly demand he be sacked without looking at that picture is short sighted, I'm not defending Raplp, im just putting the bigger picture, if we had won the last two games then we would now be 10th battling Brighton for 9th, that is after an awful run in the past 10 games.
So Ralph must have been doing something right in the previous 26 games that we play so badly but still could finish 11th or 12th even now.
We have to look at what has gone wrong, has Ralph selected the wrong teams,? in the main no, the team that lost to Chelsea was just about the best side we could have put out.
Has he told around 5 players to go out there and go from playing out of their skin to being attrocious, did he tell Broja to not score again in the Premier League this season after February 9th when he scored his last league goal ?
Would another manager have done better ? After the game on Saturday various people told me we should get Bielsa or Dyche, two managers that have done far worse than us this season |
You cant say "if we had won our last two games"
We didn't
We have had a fairly easy run of games and lost most of them
It down to players and manager, players get dropped or sold and managers get sacked
We are blindly stumbling into summer which without a major investment means the same again next season
Every single summer since time began we have needed two centre backs a keeper and a striker and again we need the same. No money is always thrown around or poor recruitment?
This summer needs to see the glaring frailties addressed including a decent defensive coach! | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:33 - May 9 with 1462 views | Sadoldgit |
I’m not sure we are blindingly stumbling into summer. Ralph’s face said it all on Saturday. He was not a happy bunny. These people aren’t idiots and they know that these performances are not good enough. What happens is another matter but I don’t think for one moment that the owners and management are remotely happy about the end of season run in. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:47 - May 9 with 1448 views | Ron11 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:33 - May 9 by Sadoldgit |
I’m not sure we are blindingly stumbling into summer. Ralph’s face said it all on Saturday. He was not a happy bunny. These people aren’t idiots and they know that these performances are not good enough. What happens is another matter but I don’t think for one moment that the owners and management are remotely happy about the end of season run in. |
'Ralph's face said it all on Saturday. He was not a happy bunny'
Not a happy bunny??
Then why the f*ck were Tella, Romeu or Che Adams still not on the pitch even after the hour mark?
Sorry but the the chants were right. He doesn't know what he's doing.
And the lack of leadership is mentioned. The captain is Ward Prowse. If he can't provide it, which it seems he can't, give it to Oriel Romeu. If he's not on the bench for some completely unfathomable reason of course...... | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 19:48 - May 9 with 1386 views | Centurion |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 14:34 - May 9 by Butty101 |
Nick we are sleeping walking into relegation (just like Swansea in 2017-18). I cant see us getting another point this season. What will probably save us is Leeds terrible goal difference.
Thank god we got a stuffy undeserved win against Arsenal!
Bar that little purple patch just after christmas, the season has been pretty poor.
I doubt we can afford to sack Ralph. |
'Sleepwalking to relegation' Where have I heard that phrase before? | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 20:13 - May 9 with 1364 views | Sadoldgit |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:47 - May 9 by Ron11 |
'Ralph's face said it all on Saturday. He was not a happy bunny'
Not a happy bunny??
Then why the f*ck were Tella, Romeu or Che Adams still not on the pitch even after the hour mark?
Sorry but the the chants were right. He doesn't know what he's doing.
And the lack of leadership is mentioned. The captain is Ward Prowse. If he can't provide it, which it seems he can't, give it to Oriel Romeu. If he's not on the bench for some completely unfathomable reason of course...... |
It must be so easy being a football manager eh Ron. Everyone can do the job better 😉 He obviously had reasons for making the decisions he did. They didn’t work. He is a professional and he won’t be happy with the result or the performance. You make it sound like he is deliberately losing matches to wind you up. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 20:41 - May 9 with 1332 views | TripleNiemi |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 12:46 - May 9 by SaintNick |
You are right it does say a lot about the League we are in at the moment, the Premier League is a case of have and have nots, it is compact in the middle, in the past still only being 4 points off the top 10 with two games to go would have been seen as success, now we are demanding the manager be sacked.
Mind you 5 years ago we were demanding the manager be sacked after taking us to 8th and almost winning us the League cup.
Yes its a funny league but the positions dont lie come the final day. we should be careful what we wish for look what happened back in 2017, 12 months later we were almost relegated |
How long we gonna keep trotting out this line that Puel got us to 8th and a cup final? [Post edited 9 May 2022 20:43]
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| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 20:46 - May 9 with 1326 views | TripleNiemi |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 13:40 - May 9 by saints__fan__73 |
Illingsworth's reasons for us being shite
The players
The manager
The fans
Anyone else apart from the owners and those who run the club |
One major fact remains....
Net Spend Trophy Champions .... | |
| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 22:09 - May 9 with 1252 views | Ron11 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 20:13 - May 9 by Sadoldgit |
It must be so easy being a football manager eh Ron. Everyone can do the job better 😉 He obviously had reasons for making the decisions he did. They didn’t work. He is a professional and he won’t be happy with the result or the performance. You make it sound like he is deliberately losing matches to wind you up. |
Yes, for the very first time, they didn't work, in all other games his decisions have been perfect of course, how dare we cast doubt on his judgement!
It's not winding me up (although it certainly appears to be doing that to the players) but I do find it a little worrying that he's got away with it for so long. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 08:26 - May 10 with 1078 views | saint22 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 20:13 - May 9 by Sadoldgit |
It must be so easy being a football manager eh Ron. Everyone can do the job better 😉 He obviously had reasons for making the decisions he did. They didn’t work. He is a professional and he won’t be happy with the result or the performance. You make it sound like he is deliberately losing matches to wind you up. |
and how often have those decisions not worked hey? | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 10:32 - May 10 with 1022 views | Sadoldgit |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 08:26 - May 10 by saint22 |
and how often have those decisions not worked hey? |
As often as every other manager’s out of the top clubs class I guess. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 10:40 - May 10 with 1017 views | Sadoldgit |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 22:09 - May 9 by Ron11 |
Yes, for the very first time, they didn't work, in all other games his decisions have been perfect of course, how dare we cast doubt on his judgement!
It's not winding me up (although it certainly appears to be doing that to the players) but I do find it a little worrying that he's got away with it for so long. |
He is no different than all of the other managers around him trying to compete on a very uneven playing field. You talk as if we are points adrift at the bottom. We are an average team and have had an average season overall.
Just after the 3rd goal went in I received a text from a friend to say that a mutual acquaintance had just lost her 2 year fight with cancer. It kind of puts a game into focus. We will stumble through the rest of the season, hopefully regroup in the summer and, hopefully again, be better next season. At least we have next season to look forward to, be it good or bad. 😉 | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 16:24 - May 10 with 939 views | Ron11 |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 10:40 - May 10 by Sadoldgit |
He is no different than all of the other managers around him trying to compete on a very uneven playing field. You talk as if we are points adrift at the bottom. We are an average team and have had an average season overall.
Just after the 3rd goal went in I received a text from a friend to say that a mutual acquaintance had just lost her 2 year fight with cancer. It kind of puts a game into focus. We will stumble through the rest of the season, hopefully regroup in the summer and, hopefully again, be better next season. At least we have next season to look forward to, be it good or bad. 😉 |
Where do I talk as if we are points adrift at the bottom?
My point is that despite some opinions to the contrary, we have some good players in that team that if used properly with better tactics/subs we would be a bit more than average.
It's not a lot to ask, but Hassenhutl is not the one change his stubborn ways or strange ideas. | | | |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 18:11 - May 10 with 881 views | 1ASIN12 |
For me it’s a bit similar to when Strachan left . Said he would not review his contract , side stopped playing then the board at the time got a series of managerial appointments wrong and down we went .
I think it’s time for Ralph to move on , the worry is will the club find the right coach / manager as his replacement. If we don’t then next season could be 2005 all over again .
The other worry is if Ralph is on change next season will he be good enough to keep us up - my view is he won’t be as lucky next season and we won’t go on a good run for 2 months that helped keep us up this year ( providing we do stay up )
We have no idea how much money we have in the summer and if it will be enough after all many fans were saying last summer what a good transfer window we had and how the squad was far stronger etc .
I said we were a bottom 6 team but we gave ourselves a good chance of finishing higher unfortunately it seams both the manger and the team arnt good enough . [Post edited 10 May 2022 20:56]
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| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 19:40 - May 10 with 834 views | Bazza |
| Southampton At Brentford The (Damning) Verdict on 10:40 - May 10 by Sadoldgit |
He is no different than all of the other managers around him trying to compete on a very uneven playing field. You talk as if we are points adrift at the bottom. We are an average team and have had an average season overall.
Just after the 3rd goal went in I received a text from a friend to say that a mutual acquaintance had just lost her 2 year fight with cancer. It kind of puts a game into focus. We will stumble through the rest of the season, hopefully regroup in the summer and, hopefully again, be better next season. At least we have next season to look forward to, be it good or bad. 😉 |
Well it’s quite possible that we will be in the Championship next season, all hangs on Leeds. You say we are an average team, I think that after recent game results that is wishful thinking. Ralph seems unable to inspire the team who seem unconcerned despite losses to lower teams. | | | |
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