Why Is Nathan Redmond The Whipping Boy ? Sunday, 17th Sep 2017 21:41
Saints win at Crystal Palace ensured that after the weekends fixtures were completed that the team sits in 8th place, but some fans were more concerened with slagging off certain players than praising the team overall.
Saints win at Crystal Palace was not as comprehensive as some fans would have liked, but it was a big step forward for the team as it showed they can score from open play and that they are not as bad as some of their own fans would have you bellieve.
Before the game some Saints supporters were predicting defeat and that it would be a relegation fight with some almost taking pleasure in saying that they thought it would be worth a bet on all three South Coast Premier League teams being relegated.
After the win you would have thought that all the talk on social media would be about the performance of Mario Lemina or even about the two world class saves that Fraser Forster made, yes Lemina's performance was the subject of much discussion, but there was strangely little mention of Forster, possibly because he was chief whipping boy in the opening games.
But he has some respite with Nathan Redmond now coming in for intense criticism for his showing at Selhurst Park.
Now it was not the best performance I have ever seen in a Saints shirt, but it was not the worst either, not by a long chalk and it should be mentioned that in any game it is rare for all 11 players to be on fire.
Things were not going right for Redmond on Saturday, that could be seen when he slipped up allowing Palace an attack that saw Forster produce the first of his two great saves, now Redmond was not the only player who slipped on a tricky pitch made even more difficult by a period of torrential rain, but even the best players in the world slip up every now and then.
But what Redmond did do on Saturday was he did not hide he kept trying and from that perspective made what could have been an awful game into merely a bad one.
Certainly Mauricio Pellegrino felt that he had something to contribute as he did not remove him from the game till the 85th minute, the manager probably thought that with Palace tiring and losing confience after failing to score that Redmond was the best bet to help the side score a second before deciding to batten down the hatches in the final minutes.
But why do so many fans feel the need to concentrate on bad individual performances rather than the positive points from a game that was after all a win, why do Saints fans perhaps more than most teams always seem to need to have a whipping boy.
A sizable section of our supporters seem to have a standard way of supporting that is about berating players rather than encouraging them, hence I heard more voices shouting "For ****s sake Redmond" or similar abuse rather than encouragement to him or other members of the team, for far too many it seems to be the de facto mode of support.
Nathan Redmond may be happy to hear that previous recipients of this type of "support" were Sadio Mane and Pelle for whom a sizable chunk of the supporter base had a good word to say about until they left when suddenly they became the best players in the team and their sale was the reason for our downturn in results last season.
Surely supporting a team is about getting behind your players and encouraging them, not giving them abuse, I cannot for the life of me see what benefit that has for the good of the team, I have no problem with people criticising these players in the pub after or the modern day equivalent Social Media, but during games they should get the support of the fans.
I am sure that there will be many people who will tell me in the comments section that Redmond is terrible and does not deserve to be in the team, they are entitled to that opinion, all I am questioning is where they express it.
My opinion is that Nathan Redmond can be a match winner for Saints and has done nothing since being at this club to deserve the treatment some fans give him, it is not a crime to have a bad game unless it is because you are not putting the effort in and Redmond cannot be accused of that.
Some players are confidence players and need to have the backing of the crowd, some aren't, perhaps we should remember that, certainly Sadio Mane didn't feel he owed any loyalty to the club the first time he had the chance to leave, did the abuse he received from some of his own supporters play a part, we will never know but it certainly didn't help.
So next time you watch the team consider what the term "Supporter" actually means, a dictionary definition says
"a person who gives encouragement and approval to someone or something"
Great post and very valid,,,,how does abusing a player help him, he need support when not playing so well not when hes on form. No wonder players leave and little wonder results at st marys suffer because of it.I cpuld hear the saints fans loud and proud thro out the whole game yesterday but when they are home the away fans are more vocal!
I do not rate Forster as a good goalkeeper but he had a good game yesterday.Redmond does not display any intelligence. He is not learning. He never takes his man on and all too often takes the safe option of a square ball. Defenders kow he will always come inside on the left wing. In short he is predictable. His great asset is pace but speed is meaningless if it is not used to good effect or to create space for others. His cdritism yesterday was justified IMO
Jeez! Dream on! Redmond a potential match winner? You been at the plonk or just trying to provoke? He doesn't have the scoring instinct of a prem striker- the confidence argument doesn't wash. When Lemina fed him the ball in the 78th minutes in the box, he wanted the 'Championship' luxury of an extra touch to tee his shot up and got tackled. Lambert would have hit it first time..Long isn't, ironically, a goal scorer but at least he's effective. Redmond owes Forster a beer for saving his arse after his almost costly slip. He's a whipping boy for a reason, he's not prem quality. I had to stand with the Palace fans on Saturday and the one player they kept praising (and cursing) was Shane Long. One guy said he's what they wanted Benteke to be when he's not scoring. Redmond is.. as someone on this forum once said, a rain dancer.
The same could be said about focusing match reports on how fans react to player mistakes. Its a bit of a broken record TBH. Fans have a right to debate, and moan FFS. Its websites like this actually exist. I terms of pecking order the fans who turn up and pay should be at the very last in terms of criticism.
Regarding the game, I thought we put in the (almost) perfect away performance. Palace where fired up but in the main we controlled them. Most player played well and Redmond had an off day. TBH I think he is pretty average, but hey I'm a Fan , I want all 11 to play great and for us to start winning things.
Fonte was you whipping boy on here for years. Now it's Yoshida and Saints fans. If a player is the weakest link in the team, supporters of any professional football team will mention it on their messageboards. Redmond and Ward-Prowse are currently our weakest links, although you may disagree and think it's Yoshida.
I have to pretty much agree with your sentiments Nick .... I thought it was a good transfer move when we bought him, he always seemed to cause us problems when we played Norwich. Unfortunately he hasn't progressed. Pace is his major asset yet he barely ever skins a defender and gets to the byline to cross, the majority of the time he gets the ball and stops before cutting inside or playing a ball back to where it came from. He seems quick to show his disapproval of other players if things don't work out. I'd like to see Long / Gabbi combo upfront. However as Nick's main point is .... don't turn on him during the game if something doesn't come off, give him encouragement to do better next time, and then vent your spleen on here!!
There's been some weird views on this site over the years, but this one takes the biscuit. Beyond the cheap and inconsequential nonsense about supporting or not supporting the team, the problem with Redmond is that he seems to be pretty much the first name on the team sheet, but the reason for that is mystifying. As I said in a previous post ....<<<It's true that he's young and all that, but he's been a seemingly almost automatic pick this season and last and hasn't convinced anybody yet. And remember, this is now his FOURTH season in the premiership (plus 3 in the Championship)--if the idea is that he is still developing, I'd say the pace is too slow. >> It's the old thing, when do you wake up and see that doing the same thing over and over again with no different result is a form of madness.
I'll add, even tho Saints fans don't seem to give a toss about stats...young as he is, for some reason Redmond has played in over 100 premiership games as a front three forward. He's scored 14 goals.
Compare this, just for example, to Theo Walcott--whom many Saints fans derided when the idea that he might come back to Saints was mooted in the last transfer window...in his last 106 premiership games Walcott has scored 39 goals without even being a regular starter. Just imagine where Saints would be if we'd scored 25 more goals over the last 100 or so games!!
At some point fans and management have to face up to simple reality.
Would Redmond make a good sub? Running at tired defences ? Shane long starts for me in his position next week and I would try Sims when he is back. He has gone backwards but he does offer pace , just to predictable at the moment.
I think reason we all from time to time get on the backs of our own players is real life issues we can face. Many of you wondering and asking why we give players such a hard time is we simply have a much harder time in our life's! Dealing with pressures of just paying the bills and feeding ourselves each month is hugh! Then we see players who aren't given their all and making £40k a week leaves little room to be ok with that... so honestly.. it's not great we feel the need to vent.... but when in these hard times you maybe wait three days before you can afford a hot meal then you know what real pressure is!
I don't think either Redmond or JWP are good enough for the Premier league. They have both been given plenty of games to prove their worth and failed. They should be replaced. By the way what happened to Charlie Austin? Think I heard he was injured again. Just two strikers now then.
Agree - we should not publicly abuse players who are out of form. It makes it worse for them and hand the opposition an advantage. Having said that if players are earning thousands of pounds a week and are not reaching a minimum standard they need replacing on the team sheet, and yes currently I am thinking of Redmond and Boufal. Let's give Sims a run out - whats to lose?
Yeah, but most responses have avoided Nick's main point which is by all means criticise him in the pub or on line, but to do so during the game is counter productive - and always will be. To compare it with his ON LINE comments on Yoshida just emphasises the point.
Redwight, do you go to games? From where I sit at St Mary's I haven't heard Redmond being abused once. From the sound of it, Nick seems to sit with a particularly abusive group of fans. But, I've never heard them so I doubt the players would either.
I have been going to football for fifty years and good luck with stopping fans slagging their own players off - of course it is counter-productive but logical arguments are never successful when people are venting whatever it is they need to vent. Nathan and JWP may comfort themselves by replying "I'm on 50 grand a week, how about you?"
On the serious point of Redmond he is not a 'whipping boy' but a 'weakness'. If we want to aim for the top seven we need a far better player in the role that Redmond is being asked to play. I have nothing against the lad - he could be a useful 'impact sub' as a winger but he is not a disciplined attacking mf who brings us forward at speed, he doesn't score many goals and he doesn't make many either. I thought we had the makings of a pretty good set-up on Saturday - the weakness is still the goal-scoring. If you think that Redmond has a major role in solving that problem then, fair enough, that's your view. I disagree. I would never barrack or abuse the guy at the ground or in the pub for that matter - I just think he is a weakness and I don't see him improving...
I think he will prove to be a good player, he takes players on and more often than not....& does lose a man with pace or skill, his end product needs work but he has also been unlucky at times with some good saves near misses and the post/crossbar, I think with some more time and confidence he will be a good squad player and any fan moaning about him is your typically champagne fan who demand not expect and moan rather than support.
My only consolation to the moaners and groaners is that managers always rate players these players that the fans turn on and the club seems to still be doing well
I do miss the league one days when a player who wasnt good had more support than ever, yes it was sarcastic but at least the fans were united not unfairly moaning
Typical Southampton FC view now, win 1 nill away from home in the premier league and thats still a negative
No player really deserves to be abused no matter how much they earn, unless they've committed some awful crime, especially when they're on the pitch in a Saints' shirt! It's brainless. That said everyone who pays their money buys the right to an opinion and others have correctly pointed out there is no denying the weak links in the team right now, of which Redmond is one, and JWP and Boufal also. The one thing that gives me encouragement, is at least in the case of Redmond and JWP as you say Nick neither try and "hide". They definitely want the ball and to try and improve. The problem is they need to do this very soon because football fans lack patience, especially when goals are in short supply. It's hard sticking up for them in the same way some fans did for Mane, Pelle, etc, because these guys had far less time to make an impression. JWP and Redmond need to find a way to improve and fast.
My consistent view has been that Redmond offers very little to Saints. He simply has too many weaknesses - easily knocked off the ball, failure to beat the defender, misplaced passes, no defending and, in particular, berating his team mates invariably after his own mistakes. Openly booing him isn't an option and I certainly did applaud when he put Gabbiadini through for the first goal against WHU but that action was a rarity. Once touted as the next Thierry Henry - more like Lenny Henry - but not so funny to watch.
Nick, re your point about Forster - yes, he does well on those close-up situations where he spreads his body as a blocker, but in many other circumstances he is shown to be lacking. Coming out for crosses, preferring to leave the ball for someone else, and getting down quick enough for wide, low shots, are examples. You seem to gloss over these shortcomings.
I don't have a problem with Redmond as such but i have a problem with what his signing's purpose was.
It's become clear that he was a signing designed to fill the gulf left by Lallana/Mane type players. There were players we built our team's creativity around. Unfortunately, i don't think Redmond is not individually quite good enough to build our creativity around. He's nowhere near our worst player, but he's not so good that he lifts our overall quality like his predecessors did. That's where i think we've lost our balance as a team and why the goals have dried up.
I don't see it as Redmond's 'fault' - it's EITHER the fault of recruitment for not building a better team around him or the recruitment's fault for thinking Redmond could replace Lallana/Mane.