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Souness 15:53 - Aug 15 with 3093 viewspencoedjack

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/aug/15/graeme-souness-criticised-mans-

Do the England womans team really think 'two weeks after @Lionesses end a 56-year-wait and win European Championships'

Really? Does anyone (sensible) really think it has as much worth in comparison to the mens game?
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Souness on 15:59 - Aug 15 with 2184 viewsangryjack

Taken out of context
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Souness on 16:10 - Aug 15 with 2165 viewsraynor94

What a load of old pony, the world is going mad

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
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Souness on 16:16 - Aug 15 with 2146 viewspencoedjack

Souness on 15:59 - Aug 15 by angryjack

Taken out of context


I don't really give a toss in what context it was said in, the men's game is totally different to the woman's game & Souness was correct in what he said.

The world is going mad.
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Souness on 17:09 - Aug 15 with 2081 viewsCatullus

The mens game is the mens game, the womens game is the womens game, the mens game, in Souness opinion, has gone from being about wimps and actors to being a mans game again.

To be honest the womens game has led the way there, they are far more honest than the men and many have said so. The women don't roll around like babies so maybe that triggered the men to be more...manly?

I know what Souness was saying but these days, specially on tv, you have to choose your words wisely!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Souness on 17:13 - Aug 15 with 2080 viewsSirjohnalot

Souness on 16:16 - Aug 15 by pencoedjack

I don't really give a toss in what context it was said in, the men's game is totally different to the woman's game & Souness was correct in what he said.

The world is going mad.




Absolutely nothing wrong at all in what he said. He did not say 'it is a man's game, women should not be playing it' He was simply saying it was a tough, hard, nasty clash. Vieira v Keane type game.

If he was commentating on the Women's Cup final, it would be a different context, but he wasn't. No reason at all to apologise.
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Souness on 17:22 - Aug 15 with 2059 viewsangryjack

Souness on 16:16 - Aug 15 by pencoedjack

I don't really give a toss in what context it was said in, the men's game is totally different to the woman's game & Souness was correct in what he said.

The world is going mad.


That's what I said..it was taken out of context..they twisted what he said
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Souness on 17:28 - Aug 15 with 2047 viewsjasper_T

Souness on 17:13 - Aug 15 by Sirjohnalot



Absolutely nothing wrong at all in what he said. He did not say 'it is a man's game, women should not be playing it' He was simply saying it was a tough, hard, nasty clash. Vieira v Keane type game.

If he was commentating on the Women's Cup final, it would be a different context, but he wasn't. No reason at all to apologise.


You can say that without using gendered language that insults the female ex-professional sitting next to you. There's nothing altogether objectionable about the sentiment (Souness likes to see players kicking lumps out of each other like in his day rather than good modern football, everyone entitled to their preferences) but the way its phrased is demeaning to players who aren't at all "manly" and wouldn't want to be.
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Souness on 17:40 - Aug 15 with 2026 viewsonehunglow

Souness on 17:09 - Aug 15 by Catullus

The mens game is the mens game, the womens game is the womens game, the mens game, in Souness opinion, has gone from being about wimps and actors to being a mans game again.

To be honest the womens game has led the way there, they are far more honest than the men and many have said so. The women don't roll around like babies so maybe that triggered the men to be more...manly?

I know what Souness was saying but these days, specially on tv, you have to choose your words wisely!


The last sentence is so true and rather pitiful

We are more delicate now than ever facing tough times

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Souness on 17:43 - Aug 15 with 2029 viewsTreforys_Jack

As swn as he said it you could see the presenter crap himself. Knew it would blow up, the world has gone mad
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Souness on 17:46 - Aug 15 with 2021 viewsSirjohnalot

Souness on 17:28 - Aug 15 by jasper_T

You can say that without using gendered language that insults the female ex-professional sitting next to you. There's nothing altogether objectionable about the sentiment (Souness likes to see players kicking lumps out of each other like in his day rather than good modern football, everyone entitled to their preferences) but the way its phrased is demeaning to players who aren't at all "manly" and wouldn't want to be.


Fully agree that language is important, but also the intent behind it is also important. It did not come across like he was trying to demean his colleague.

I'm the first to slam misogynistic language and old fashioned dinosaurs who belittle the women's game and have called out people on here when I've perceived (rightly or wrongly) that they are being sexist.

This, I don't think was one such occasion. He was talking in the context of the game he had just seen as opposed to players diving on the floor and pretending to be injured. Perhaps he could have said an 'old fashioned hard game' but not sure of the need to apologise. Does it not dilute the intended sexist attacks ?

I also respect him for not apologising. It would have been worthless had he done so

This post has been edited by an administrator
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Souness on 17:51 - Aug 15 with 1990 viewsFlashberryjack

Souness on 17:28 - Aug 15 by jasper_T

You can say that without using gendered language that insults the female ex-professional sitting next to you. There's nothing altogether objectionable about the sentiment (Souness likes to see players kicking lumps out of each other like in his day rather than good modern football, everyone entitled to their preferences) but the way its phrased is demeaning to players who aren't at all "manly" and wouldn't want to be.


With respect, that's a load of old bollox.

Hello
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Souness on 17:52 - Aug 15 with 1990 viewsPatchesOHoulihan

Souness on 17:13 - Aug 15 by Sirjohnalot



Absolutely nothing wrong at all in what he said. He did not say 'it is a man's game, women should not be playing it' He was simply saying it was a tough, hard, nasty clash. Vieira v Keane type game.

If he was commentating on the Women's Cup final, it would be a different context, but he wasn't. No reason at all to apologise.


Sure his intent was to mean how competitive, physical and honest the game was instead of the diving and cheating which has been seen more recently

This crazy world means everything can be interpreted incorrectly and made a huge deal

This one needs to finish and move on. Nothing to see here unless you’re looking for stuff that doesn’t exist

This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you."

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Souness on 18:13 - Aug 15 with 1936 viewsKeithHaynes

Souness on 17:22 - Aug 15 by angryjack

That's what I said..it was taken out of context..they twisted what he said


Happens a lot that’s a fact.

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Souness on 18:18 - Aug 15 with 1926 viewsjasper_T

Souness on 17:46 - Aug 15 by Sirjohnalot

Fully agree that language is important, but also the intent behind it is also important. It did not come across like he was trying to demean his colleague.

I'm the first to slam misogynistic language and old fashioned dinosaurs who belittle the women's game and have called out people on here when I've perceived (rightly or wrongly) that they are being sexist.

This, I don't think was one such occasion. He was talking in the context of the game he had just seen as opposed to players diving on the floor and pretending to be injured. Perhaps he could have said an 'old fashioned hard game' but not sure of the need to apologise. Does it not dilute the intended sexist attacks ?

I also respect him for not apologising. It would have been worthless had he done so

This post has been edited by an administrator


You're clearly not "the first to slam misogynistic language" as you're literally defending it, and praising Souness for not apologising for his poor choice of words.

Ignorance is not an excuse. Just because he wasn't actively trying to insult another pundit or women in general doesn't mean his choice of words doesn't do just that. He should "be a man" and own up to his mistake and apologise.
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Souness on 18:30 - Aug 15 with 1894 viewsSirjohnalot

Souness on 18:18 - Aug 15 by jasper_T

You're clearly not "the first to slam misogynistic language" as you're literally defending it, and praising Souness for not apologising for his poor choice of words.

Ignorance is not an excuse. Just because he wasn't actively trying to insult another pundit or women in general doesn't mean his choice of words doesn't do just that. He should "be a man" and own up to his mistake and apologise.


I disagree.

You’ll find many people on here who label me as woke or lefty or a snowflake etc. my point simply is that scenarios need to be carefully looked at and analysed before jumping on the wagon and labelling someone sexist where the evidence, I’d respectfully say doesn’t stack up.

He could possibly have chosen a better word but he was specifically talking about the men’s game here not the women’s. You cannot be sexist for saying the men’s game is a man’s game. It was not unfavourably comparing the woman’s game, simply that it was a tough game.

I’ll always call out sexism, sometimes against a lot of people who disagree with me but I won’t do it if it’s not called for, which here, I don’t think it is
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Souness on 18:33 - Aug 15 with 1880 views73__73

Souness was a great player and probably the best pundit out there.
And let’s be honest he played like a man, a very tough man.
He didn’t play like a tough woman, because he’s a man.
The match he was talking about was played by men.
Hope you all understand that.

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Souness on 18:36 - Aug 15 with 1876 viewspencoedjack

Souness on 18:30 - Aug 15 by Sirjohnalot

I disagree.

You’ll find many people on here who label me as woke or lefty or a snowflake etc. my point simply is that scenarios need to be carefully looked at and analysed before jumping on the wagon and labelling someone sexist where the evidence, I’d respectfully say doesn’t stack up.

He could possibly have chosen a better word but he was specifically talking about the men’s game here not the women’s. You cannot be sexist for saying the men’s game is a man’s game. It was not unfavourably comparing the woman’s game, simply that it was a tough game.

I’ll always call out sexism, sometimes against a lot of people who disagree with me but I won’t do it if it’s not called for, which here, I don’t think it is


I find it bizarre you need to explain yourself.

People like Jasper cause an issue & love it to be blown up.
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Souness on 18:40 - Aug 15 with 1863 viewsSirjohnalot

Souness on 18:36 - Aug 15 by pencoedjack

I find it bizarre you need to explain yourself.

People like Jasper cause an issue & love it to be blown up.


Not at all. He was polite, disagreed with me and I replied. I’ve not an issue with that in fact it’s a perfect example of a really good thread. (Watch it all crash and burn now )
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Souness on 18:45 - Aug 15 with 1852 viewsraynor94

There was an item during the women's Euros, when it was said England's Ellen White was closing in on Rooney's England goal scoring record.

Really!

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
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Souness on 18:47 - Aug 15 with 1848 viewsJoesus_Of_Narbereth

Souness on 18:45 - Aug 15 by raynor94

There was an item during the women's Euros, when it was said England's Ellen White was closing in on Rooney's England goal scoring record.

Really!


Stick Rooney in that womens team even aged forty and about 20 stone and he’d outscore them all.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2022 20:15]

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Souness on 18:51 - Aug 15 with 1832 views73__73

Souness on 18:45 - Aug 15 by raynor94

There was an item during the women's Euros, when it was said England's Ellen White was closing in on Rooney's England goal scoring record.

Really!



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Souness on 19:10 - Aug 15 with 1802 viewsTreforys_Jack

Souness on 18:45 - Aug 15 by raynor94

There was an item during the women's Euros, when it was said England's Ellen White was closing in on Rooney's England goal scoring record.

Really!


It was mentioned quite a few times in fact.
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Souness on 19:13 - Aug 15 with 1796 viewsReslovenSwan1

Men throughout history are seen as more aggressive and less risk averse. Generally women are seen as less aggressive and more cautious. This is rational in the concept of child birth and child raising. Roles are adopted that are fit for purpose. (e.g. raising a family)

Men are also faster stronger and more physical. Men are less likely to raise children where aggression and risk are not considered beneficial traits.

Gay female footballers are far more common in women's football than men's football. It would be logical to suggest Women taking on Male aggressivity and risk taking would be beneficial in the women.s game.

Perhaps now the women's game is also a 'mans' game.

Wise sage since Toshack era

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Souness on 19:38 - Aug 15 with 1751 viewsswan_si

Souness on 17:51 - Aug 15 by Flashberryjack

With respect, that's a load of old bollox.


That's rather ageist. totally agree though.
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Souness on 22:04 - Aug 15 with 1617 viewsKeithHaynes

And so be it.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62548431

A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
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