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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales 18:27 - Aug 24 with 13228 viewsjohnlangy

Meeting With Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris at their surgery in Brynhyfryd Library on 14th August 2015

There have been a lot of threads to do with the WAG's investment in Cardiff at the expense of the rest of Wales. I commented a number of times that what people should do is go to their AM/MP nd make their feelings known. I finally got off my own backside and went to see Mike Hedges, the Swansea East AM, 10 days ago. I also had the pleasure of speaking to Carolyn Harris MP who attended the same surgery. I won't go over all the points made in previous threads and all the things I said/asked them but I will try to explain the whole thing fairly briefly.

I said that in my opinion, and that of many others, the WAG is investing in Cardiff disproportionately at the expense of the rest of Wales in a similar way to how the UK government has done over the decades with London. I stressed a number of times that i'd be making comparisons with Swansea but my general point refers to the whole of Wales.

Firstly they talked about all the things happening or hopefully going to happen in Swansea. I agreed with their points but said that what has been invested in Cardiff down the years dwarfs the amount being talked about and the developments happening now, and due to happen, in Cardiff again dwarfs the Swansea investment. Just a couple of examples. The development of the old bus station site with a new 150,000 sq ft BBC Wales HQ, a 135,000 sq ft development already completed with another at the planning stage. Also the new bus 'interchange'. To put it in context the new bus station in Swansea took a decade to generate funding before completion and cost £11 m. The new 450,000 sq ft 'interchange' in Cardiff will cost £150 m what with the luxury Hotel, appartments and retail outlets. There's another thread from about a month ago with a link to the Walesonline article detailing all the plans so I won't repeat the rest.

They said that private investment is a decision by the company involved and out of government hands. I agreed it is the individual companies decision but said it's the WAG which creates the environment which persuades companies to invest in an area because they can see opportunities for profit. The setting of the Mill Stad (*) and the Mill Centre (the WAG with our money) in Cardiff ensures that millions upon millions of people are drawn in. As a result businesses can see a profit and invest there. One event at the Mill Stad injects £10 million into the Cardiff economy (NOT into the Welsh economy as is always repeated by politicians). How many large events happen each year at the Mill Stad ? If it is 50 then that is £500 million. No wonder companies invest there.

(* - this was WRU money but they worked with CC Council to ensure it happened in Cardiff – I don't actually know but I imagine the WAG worked behind the scenes to help as well)

I also mentioned about the Metro and the M4 relief road (£2/3 billion between them). Mike Hedges made the point about the traffic into Cardiff and the need to strengthen the infrastructure because of it. I said that's exactly my point. By ensuring billions are invested in Cardiff it draws people in which means there's a need to improve the infrastructure which will draw more people in which will generate more investment which will ...... You get my drift. He then made my point again by saying he could drive from one end of Swansea to the other relatively easily so the need for infrastructure improvements isn't there. Well obviously I said. Because Swansea hasn't been developed to anything like the extent of Cardiff which is my point.



I sent this email to Nicholas Parry of the EP on 13th Aug and got a reply from Richard Youle the following day.

Mr Parry,
 On a recent thread on a Swans website someone posted ‘I wonder if the Evening Post would have the $%^&* to have a debate on this’ so, with the Assembly elections coming up next year I thought i’d put the question to you.
In the opinion of myself and a huge number of people who have posted letters in the EP over the years a completely disproportionate amount of money is invested in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales. Similar opinions are expressed on this Swans website and I have no reasons to believe that, if I looked through other websites outside of the South East a similar message would emerge. I certainly know of many bloggers who post the same message.
 So, there’s the question. Will you do it ? It’s about time this was dragged into the open and the EP, being the best selling and most widely read newspaper in Wales would be the best means of having that debate.
 Looking forward to your reply.
John Young 


Hello,
 I’ll aim to look into this – have you got any evidence at this stage which suggests Cardiff does get a disproportionate amount of investment?
 Thanks Richard
Richard Youle


Richard asks for evidence. None of this is evidence, it's opinion but people's opinions matter. A result of our 'opinions' could be that we vote Labour out of control of the WAG next year. Also the result of our 'opinions' could be that Labour see them being read in the EP by 150,000 people and maybe finally decide things should change.

To me their answers say that they believe they've done the right thing. I'll be emailing both Mike and Carolyn to let them know how to access the thread in case they feel a need to join in. And if any of you decide you'd want to do something similar it turns out that what I was doing was lobbying. Apparently, if you want to lobby your AM/MP you should contact them and arrange an appointment rather than go to a normal surgery.

And to be fair to them both they talked to me for over 30 minutes out of a surgery time of an hour so huge plaudits to them for that.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:18 - Aug 30 with 2579 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 00:59 - Aug 30 by jackpot

In the first place people wanted devolution from London.
Now most of Wales wants devolution from Cardiff.


I know what you mean.

But what we have to do, for a start, is vote out the Labor lot. Or at least ensure they haven't got a majority. Then they won't be able to do just what they want.

Project Cardiff is their 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Project Wales is way back.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:26 - Aug 30 with 2538 viewsPrivate_Partz

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:18 - Aug 30 by johnlangy

I know what you mean.

But what we have to do, for a start, is vote out the Labor lot. Or at least ensure they haven't got a majority. Then they won't be able to do just what they want.

Project Cardiff is their 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Project Wales is way back.


The problem we have John is the media will continue to broadcast everything as rosey in Wales. It is Cardiff based and Cardiff biased. Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy?
I harp on about transport infrastructure but it is so important. Much of the NHS issues are as a result of poor links. The Ambulance Service being a prime example although I recognise there are other issues as well.
A while back I picked up on a very small, poor transport document from the WAG site. It completely lacks ambition for the rest of Wales and the majority of it is made up of the Cardiff Metro plans.
I agree Labour need a bloody nose at the very least at the next election but I worry that much of the population do not realise they are being conned. There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint.

You have mission in life to hold out your hand, To help the other guy out, Help your fellow man. Stan Ridgway

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:24 - Aug 30 with 2512 viewsCopperJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:18 - Aug 30 by johnlangy

I know what you mean.

But what we have to do, for a start, is vote out the Labor lot. Or at least ensure they haven't got a majority. Then they won't be able to do just what they want.

Project Cardiff is their 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Project Wales is way back.


I agree Langy. Voting Labour out appears impossible in Wales. People need to petition their AM, tell them they won't vote Labour until the discrepancy is corrected. They'll never fix it out of benevolence, they're happy to continue creating wealth on their doorstep and poverty everywhere else.

If you want change, do what Langy has done. Petition your AM, promise them that you are voting for any party besides Labour until this ends, and tell them that you're not alone in your growing resentment (just look at Gower turning blue for the first time in a century!).

Poll: The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why?

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:51 - Aug 30 with 2490 viewstrampie

If you want change vote for the lovely Leanne's party, a social justice, anti austerity party.

PS I'm only a voter, nothing more, it strikes me how shallow ordinary people are voting Labour and Conservative when it seems that lots of those very same ordinary people don't real want Labour and Conservative policies yet they still vote for them.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:25 - Aug 30 with 2471 viewsWingstandwood

Gower voter? Gower vote? I am an ex Labour supporter of significant loyalty whom as a young un used to absolutely idolise Labour greats of old!........Labour have lost my vote because of their Cardiff bias, complacency, arrogance and complete and utter silence when it comes to speaking out and defending its own constituencies that its members were elected to serve.

Where have local A.M's and M.P's been when it comes to defending "Their patch", where have they been? Carry on mugs? You're relentlessly destroying your discerning/knowledgeable voter base and own party in the process! The Welsh BBC bunch? Well considering most of its staff/reporters live in the more affluent Cardiff area's and suburbs they're hardly gonna rock the boat. Their properties rise in value on the back of a thriving Cardiff? The better the city does the better they do and wealthier they get in the process?
[Post edited 30 Aug 2015 14:29]
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:32 - Aug 30 with 2448 viewsperchrockjack

And as regards the UK, only the South east of England really matters.

It's a fact We gave what they term regional accents.


Swansea gets little from Cardiff but North East Wales less still

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:42 - Aug 30 with 2448 viewsWingstandwood

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:32 - Aug 30 by perchrockjack

And as regards the UK, only the South east of England really matters.

It's a fact We gave what they term regional accents.


Swansea gets little from Cardiff but North East Wales less still


Bang on!.....The Cardiff rest of Wales divide is now beginning to be recognised and talked about (in Wales!) in exactly the same way as others do with the North-South England divide. The term 'North-South divide' is etched into the conscious of most people now because it must have been used zillions of times now? It must now surely be some form of grammatical term in itself? It should be put in a dictionary type phrase book?
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:54 - Aug 30 with 2436 viewsperchrockjack

To their"credit" , they don't exactly try to hide it.

I doubt many from south Wales know where the likes of Mancot, Buckley (yr Bwcle), Ffynongroew are on a map of Wales.

Its no wonder those in NE Wales look east towards Liverpool/Manchester .

The economic divide is as big as the demographic and its got worse. Its obscene.

What this country needs -sorry to repeat myself, milljack/hump/js/bryn - is a complete cultural and economic overhaul whereby jobs/employment are transferred from the south east to the North/Wales. Madness?. Well not really as whole scale industries have been closed without a second thought by MP s fully aware that the majority really don't give a shiot as its either northern monkeys or taffies that suffer.

We need to heal this division and whilst its an open wound ,it ll continue to fester

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:07 - Aug 31 with 2362 viewsjohnlangy

I said i'd email Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris to ensure they were aware of this thread, hoping that they'd read it and post themselves.

Well, Mike did and his response in a mail to me is shown below. He mentions a few things that are important within the context of this discussion and others that certainly aren't. I couldn't believe the cheek of even mentioning the Liberty extension plans. What on earth has that got to do with WAG investment. As far as i'm aware the Swans have had ZERO help from the WAG during it's existence and they certainly have done nothing to help with extension costs. They did, however, ensure that the Super Cup final came to Cardiff with the result that investment appeared from SOMEWHERE to build their new extension.


Mike Hedges
Yes I read the comments. I was rather surprised at the view that “I toe the party line” especially as I do not think there is one.
Talking only about Swansea East we currently have SA1 development under construction, Tidal lagoon plans well under way, Swansea Vale mixed development now completed, Liberty stadium expansion plans, new schools at Burlais which is nearly complete and Lon Las about to start construction, electrification of Swansea to London mainline, road improvements around the Hafod with the new distributor road.
 Yes I want more investment in Swansea East. I live here, my family live here and I am committed to the area
Mike

Carolyn Harris' response.
John . Thank you for your email .
I agree with Mike comments but would add that  has politicians we should  speak up about region - which Mike and I do constantly. 
We tell talk us up not because it is our job , but because Swansea is our home .
I hope you will come to appreciate that our intention is not only to be ambassadors of SWANSEA East but effective advocates of all that is great about our home. 
Carolyn

That says nothing to me at all.

I've sent the following email to Richard Youle (EP) containing a couple of responses from Private_Partz (hope you don't mind old chap).


Richard,
I mailed you recently on the above subject. Below are a couple of responses within the thread I told you about. Two points in the first response -  ‘Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy?’ and ‘There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint’. The EP is very well placed to do this having a higher circulation than the Western Mail, albeit not spread nationally. And that could be easily fixed. Just get the Daily Post to cover the same thing.  



*************************************************
The problem we have John is the media will continue to broadcast everything as rosey in Wales. It is Cardiff based and Cardiff biased. Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy? (from a story in the Daily Post by Rachel Flint)
I harp on about transport infrastructure but it is so important. Much of the NHS issues are as a result of poor links. The Ambulance Service being a prime example although I recognise there are other issues as well.
A while back I picked up on a very small, poor transport document from the WAG site. It completely lacks ambition for the rest of Wales and the majority of it is made up of the Cardiff Metro plans.
I agree Labour need a bloody nose at the very least at the next election but I worry that much of the population do not realise they are being conned. There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint.

Most politicians and those in the know recognise that investment in an area cannot take place without transport infrastructure. A point obviously lost on these people. They are small areas (Aberystwyth and others) lacking in jobs because of this shocking patronising view. We should have a motorway North To South in Wales plus a top quality coastal route to a minimum standard of dual carriageway. The M4 should extend to the ferry terminals and the North Wales route should be motorway as well. People die on these farm tracks of roads regularly at present as a result of having to share winding two lane roads with heavy lorries.
I always use Gran Canaria as an example. A third of the size of Wales outside the main tourist season and still smaller at peak times when stuffed with holiday makers. They still have a far superior motorway network. For anyone who mentions cost I would give you the St Gotthard base tunnel. Where there is a will there us a way. There is no will at all by Complacent Carwyn and his crew to improve the rest of Wales it would seem.
**********************************************

I’d be interested in your thoughts.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:45 - Aug 31 with 2336 viewsDan_Swan

Swansea voted for the assembly and campaigned for the Assembly to be based here. Cardiff voted against devolution and end up with the purpose built Senedd at some ridiculous cost to the tax payer when the Guildhall could have been used.

You can talk about the investment in Cardiff City Centre, the Cardiff Bay Barrage etc.... I believe any major projects in Swansea for instance are mainly funded from Europe or private investment.

The rest of Wales suffers whilst Cardiff flourishes, it's plain wrong and why these alleged AM's state they speak up about it. It's so blatant that they shouldn't be speaking out, they should be shouting about it.

Still following Dr's orders!

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:00 - Aug 31 with 2329 viewsWingstandwood

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:07 - Aug 31 by johnlangy

I said i'd email Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris to ensure they were aware of this thread, hoping that they'd read it and post themselves.

Well, Mike did and his response in a mail to me is shown below. He mentions a few things that are important within the context of this discussion and others that certainly aren't. I couldn't believe the cheek of even mentioning the Liberty extension plans. What on earth has that got to do with WAG investment. As far as i'm aware the Swans have had ZERO help from the WAG during it's existence and they certainly have done nothing to help with extension costs. They did, however, ensure that the Super Cup final came to Cardiff with the result that investment appeared from SOMEWHERE to build their new extension.


Mike Hedges
Yes I read the comments. I was rather surprised at the view that “I toe the party line” especially as I do not think there is one.
Talking only about Swansea East we currently have SA1 development under construction, Tidal lagoon plans well under way, Swansea Vale mixed development now completed, Liberty stadium expansion plans, new schools at Burlais which is nearly complete and Lon Las about to start construction, electrification of Swansea to London mainline, road improvements around the Hafod with the new distributor road.
 Yes I want more investment in Swansea East. I live here, my family live here and I am committed to the area
Mike

Carolyn Harris' response.
John . Thank you for your email .
I agree with Mike comments but would add that  has politicians we should  speak up about region - which Mike and I do constantly. 
We tell talk us up not because it is our job , but because Swansea is our home .
I hope you will come to appreciate that our intention is not only to be ambassadors of SWANSEA East but effective advocates of all that is great about our home. 
Carolyn

That says nothing to me at all.

I've sent the following email to Richard Youle (EP) containing a couple of responses from Private_Partz (hope you don't mind old chap).


Richard,
I mailed you recently on the above subject. Below are a couple of responses within the thread I told you about. Two points in the first response -  ‘Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy?’ and ‘There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint’. The EP is very well placed to do this having a higher circulation than the Western Mail, albeit not spread nationally. And that could be easily fixed. Just get the Daily Post to cover the same thing.  



*************************************************
The problem we have John is the media will continue to broadcast everything as rosey in Wales. It is Cardiff based and Cardiff biased. Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy? (from a story in the Daily Post by Rachel Flint)
I harp on about transport infrastructure but it is so important. Much of the NHS issues are as a result of poor links. The Ambulance Service being a prime example although I recognise there are other issues as well.
A while back I picked up on a very small, poor transport document from the WAG site. It completely lacks ambition for the rest of Wales and the majority of it is made up of the Cardiff Metro plans.
I agree Labour need a bloody nose at the very least at the next election but I worry that much of the population do not realise they are being conned. There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint.

Most politicians and those in the know recognise that investment in an area cannot take place without transport infrastructure. A point obviously lost on these people. They are small areas (Aberystwyth and others) lacking in jobs because of this shocking patronising view. We should have a motorway North To South in Wales plus a top quality coastal route to a minimum standard of dual carriageway. The M4 should extend to the ferry terminals and the North Wales route should be motorway as well. People die on these farm tracks of roads regularly at present as a result of having to share winding two lane roads with heavy lorries.
I always use Gran Canaria as an example. A third of the size of Wales outside the main tourist season and still smaller at peak times when stuffed with holiday makers. They still have a far superior motorway network. For anyone who mentions cost I would give you the St Gotthard base tunnel. Where there is a will there us a way. There is no will at all by Complacent Carwyn and his crew to improve the rest of Wales it would seem.
**********************************************

I’d be interested in your thoughts.


My thoughts? You watch Labour core support that comprises of uber-loyal ex-miners and steelworkers etc decline year on year. These people will eventually have to go and meet St Peter at the pearly gates.

Eventually, some time in the future the destiny of Labour in many constituencies will not be down to the declining donkey voters, it will be down to the intelligent and discerning thinking voter with no traditional Labour ties or loyalty.

Complacency and continuing malaise today = electoral Labour disaster stories in the future.........And that is going to be a fact!
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:03 - Aug 31 with 2273 viewstrampie

Has as been pointed out there is more to Wales than just Cardiff and come to that Swansea also, an issue for a lot of people I know is not just Cardiff but the M4 corridor, there seems to be relatively more and more investment along the M4 corridor the further East you go.

South of the M4 corridor is basically the sea but those places generally speaking are doing ok, North of the M4 corridor is where a lot of money and investment needs to be spent and that is the Glamorgan and Gwent valley's, West, Mid and North Wales needs investment as well, Swansea and particularly Cardiff needs to get inline behind these other places in Wales, the valleys with its large population, social problems and heavy industry gone needs to be top of the list to receive any resources we have.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:14 - Aug 31 with 2259 viewsPrivate_Partz

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:07 - Aug 31 by johnlangy

I said i'd email Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris to ensure they were aware of this thread, hoping that they'd read it and post themselves.

Well, Mike did and his response in a mail to me is shown below. He mentions a few things that are important within the context of this discussion and others that certainly aren't. I couldn't believe the cheek of even mentioning the Liberty extension plans. What on earth has that got to do with WAG investment. As far as i'm aware the Swans have had ZERO help from the WAG during it's existence and they certainly have done nothing to help with extension costs. They did, however, ensure that the Super Cup final came to Cardiff with the result that investment appeared from SOMEWHERE to build their new extension.


Mike Hedges
Yes I read the comments. I was rather surprised at the view that “I toe the party line” especially as I do not think there is one.
Talking only about Swansea East we currently have SA1 development under construction, Tidal lagoon plans well under way, Swansea Vale mixed development now completed, Liberty stadium expansion plans, new schools at Burlais which is nearly complete and Lon Las about to start construction, electrification of Swansea to London mainline, road improvements around the Hafod with the new distributor road.
 Yes I want more investment in Swansea East. I live here, my family live here and I am committed to the area
Mike

Carolyn Harris' response.
John . Thank you for your email .
I agree with Mike comments but would add that  has politicians we should  speak up about region - which Mike and I do constantly. 
We tell talk us up not because it is our job , but because Swansea is our home .
I hope you will come to appreciate that our intention is not only to be ambassadors of SWANSEA East but effective advocates of all that is great about our home. 
Carolyn

That says nothing to me at all.

I've sent the following email to Richard Youle (EP) containing a couple of responses from Private_Partz (hope you don't mind old chap).


Richard,
I mailed you recently on the above subject. Below are a couple of responses within the thread I told you about. Two points in the first response -  ‘Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy?’ and ‘There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint’. The EP is very well placed to do this having a higher circulation than the Western Mail, albeit not spread nationally. And that could be easily fixed. Just get the Daily Post to cover the same thing.  



*************************************************
The problem we have John is the media will continue to broadcast everything as rosey in Wales. It is Cardiff based and Cardiff biased. Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy? (from a story in the Daily Post by Rachel Flint)
I harp on about transport infrastructure but it is so important. Much of the NHS issues are as a result of poor links. The Ambulance Service being a prime example although I recognise there are other issues as well.
A while back I picked up on a very small, poor transport document from the WAG site. It completely lacks ambition for the rest of Wales and the majority of it is made up of the Cardiff Metro plans.
I agree Labour need a bloody nose at the very least at the next election but I worry that much of the population do not realise they are being conned. There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint.

Most politicians and those in the know recognise that investment in an area cannot take place without transport infrastructure. A point obviously lost on these people. They are small areas (Aberystwyth and others) lacking in jobs because of this shocking patronising view. We should have a motorway North To South in Wales plus a top quality coastal route to a minimum standard of dual carriageway. The M4 should extend to the ferry terminals and the North Wales route should be motorway as well. People die on these farm tracks of roads regularly at present as a result of having to share winding two lane roads with heavy lorries.
I always use Gran Canaria as an example. A third of the size of Wales outside the main tourist season and still smaller at peak times when stuffed with holiday makers. They still have a far superior motorway network. For anyone who mentions cost I would give you the St Gotthard base tunnel. Where there is a will there us a way. There is no will at all by Complacent Carwyn and his crew to improve the rest of Wales it would seem.
**********************************************

I’d be interested in your thoughts.


Fill your boots John. If any points I make are of any help the go for it. :-) As regards to the responses well they are just spin aren't they? Nothing in their replies have made me change my mind that we have a complacent Cardiff centric Labour administration in charge. In fact the responses have reinforced that view. My concerns however that there has not been much effort from the other parties to attempt to rectify this atrocious imbalance. The Lib Dems seem to be the only ones who are picking up on it and they are not carrying much clout nowadays.

You have mission in life to hold out your hand, To help the other guy out, Help your fellow man. Stan Ridgway

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 07:38 - Sep 1 with 2200 viewsCopperJack

Like you say Langy, the Liberty has nothing to do with the WAG. Most of the improvements made in Swansea are EU-funded (look at the signs which are all plastered with EU funding). I know Cardiff attracts higher private funding, but only because 20 years ago the WAG decided to start spending an absurdly high percentage of our money in one city and centralising all the wealth.

Compared with the money they've spent in Cardiff (detailed in my earlier post), the money they spend in Swansea is pittance. All the new developments in the city are all being done through private enterprise, not given the sort of golden handshake which the BBC have had for their new 'CAPITOL HEADQUARTERS' etc.

Poll: The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why?

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:31 - Sep 1 with 2119 viewsCopperJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 22:29 - Aug 29 by CopperJack

Further to what Langy said, here's some more info -
In December 2014, the Welsh gov't paid Active Quote £600k to open in Cardiff.
In June 2014, it was agreed that the Welsh Government would spend £10m on new roads in Cardiff to fund a new BBC HQ in the city.
They've invested £30 million on a film investment project
In October 2011 – £300k Penarth Pier. Grant unavailable for Mumbles Pier.
Spending millions on taking the Ashes to Cardiff and claim it's 'Good for Wales'. Nowhere outside Cardiff benefits.
Building new skating rink and winter sports zone.

The Welsh Government promised the money from the sale of SA1 would be spent on creating a new marina in SA1, 400 berth. People built flats on this promise. The Welsh Government redistributed this £8million.

The £19m that would need to be spent on this development, not including the £8m set aside, would equate to two year’s finance in Cardiff Bay.


If any of the AMs do read this (and not just Mike), I'd like to see them justify these. Not to me tion the money that went into St Davids and Cardiff Bay to actually create them. They always come back with 'well we've spent this on Swansea' like it's charity.I'd be happy if they even spent half of what they spent there in Swansea, but they don't.

Poll: The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why?

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:39 - Sep 2 with 2058 viewsWingstandwood

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:31 - Sep 1 by CopperJack

If any of the AMs do read this (and not just Mike), I'd like to see them justify these. Not to me tion the money that went into St Davids and Cardiff Bay to actually create them. They always come back with 'well we've spent this on Swansea' like it's charity.I'd be happy if they even spent half of what they spent there in Swansea, but they don't.


The fact about Penarth Pier and Mumbles Pier absolutely staggers me and others?........'The Mumbles' is well known throughout the U.K and I have an elderly relative from Essex that absolutely loves the place.

If 'The Mumbles' was some anonymous back water non-attraction that nobody visited or wanted to visit then there might be a point in leaving the pier rot?..........But hey folks!..........We are talking about an incompetent and moronic bunch of A.M's where Cardiff/Labour Party will always come before common sense, moral governing standards and fairness are we not?

One thing is for sure (sorry for repeating myself!) INTELLIGENT people down these parts are starting to notice. Its not only the buried-head-in-sand donkey voting thicko's that votes. I was staunch Labour (I've seen enough and had enough!) and now my attitude is?.........F**k off to your party, your utterly, utterly, utterly crap A.M's and stuff your red rosette where the sun does not shine!
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 23:54 - Sep 2 with 2020 viewsBrynmill_Jack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:39 - Sep 2 by Wingstandwood

The fact about Penarth Pier and Mumbles Pier absolutely staggers me and others?........'The Mumbles' is well known throughout the U.K and I have an elderly relative from Essex that absolutely loves the place.

If 'The Mumbles' was some anonymous back water non-attraction that nobody visited or wanted to visit then there might be a point in leaving the pier rot?..........But hey folks!..........We are talking about an incompetent and moronic bunch of A.M's where Cardiff/Labour Party will always come before common sense, moral governing standards and fairness are we not?

One thing is for sure (sorry for repeating myself!) INTELLIGENT people down these parts are starting to notice. Its not only the buried-head-in-sand donkey voting thicko's that votes. I was staunch Labour (I've seen enough and had enough!) and now my attitude is?.........F**k off to your party, your utterly, utterly, utterly crap A.M's and stuff your red rosette where the sun does not shine!


If the Swansea independence movement succeeds President Clasie is going to abduct the Cardiff Bay crowd and subject them to show trials in the Guildhall where they will be convicted with no appeal . The sentencing is still being considered, but I gather he prefers death by umbongo

Each time I go to Bedd - au........................

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:40 - Sep 3 with 1972 viewsWhiterockin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:39 - Sep 2 by Wingstandwood

The fact about Penarth Pier and Mumbles Pier absolutely staggers me and others?........'The Mumbles' is well known throughout the U.K and I have an elderly relative from Essex that absolutely loves the place.

If 'The Mumbles' was some anonymous back water non-attraction that nobody visited or wanted to visit then there might be a point in leaving the pier rot?..........But hey folks!..........We are talking about an incompetent and moronic bunch of A.M's where Cardiff/Labour Party will always come before common sense, moral governing standards and fairness are we not?

One thing is for sure (sorry for repeating myself!) INTELLIGENT people down these parts are starting to notice. Its not only the buried-head-in-sand donkey voting thicko's that votes. I was staunch Labour (I've seen enough and had enough!) and now my attitude is?.........F**k off to your party, your utterly, utterly, utterly crap A.M's and stuff your red rosette where the sun does not shine!


At the back of my mind is Penarth Pier is council owned while Mumbles Pier is privately owned. I am not sure on the facts but in fairness it be the difference. Obviously I stand to be corrected.
0

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:18 - Sep 3 with 1935 viewsperchrockjack

All political parties are worthy of our contempt, all politicians our suspicion.

Both labour and Tory treat people with contempt.

We lost a Tory MP here basically because she took it for granted labour wouldn't attract the voters it did

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:40 - Oct 18 with 1619 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:18 - Sep 3 by perchrockjack

All political parties are worthy of our contempt, all politicians our suspicion.

Both labour and Tory treat people with contempt.

We lost a Tory MP here basically because she took it for granted labour wouldn't attract the voters it did


I mentioned previously that I was going to the Carwyn Connects event in the Dylan Thomas centre. This happened on Thursday night and here's a rundown of what happened.

There were about 70 people there and the Q&A started at 6 pm and lasted till 7.30. There were about 15 questions asked. Some may have been emailed before the event but most, as far as I could tell, were handed in on the night a few minutes before 6 (including mine). When they took to the stage the MC said Carwyn had not seen the questions but, even if he had seen them prep time would have been minimal.

The questions covered investment, Welsh Council reorg, Swansea Bay Region stuff, the problem of how to help the homeless, setting up a centre for the Welsh Tamil community and, believe it or not, the suggestion that the WAG should create a pig farm (not a typo) so that ex offenders, when they come out of prison, could work there as a half way house to help them integrate back into society. That one sounds a bit odd but the bloke asking the question (an ex offender himself) was the politest, most well mannered person there and the idea not nearly as odd as it first sounds. He had trained as a stockman while in prison.

Anyway, Mr Jones is certainly not your typical 'donkey with Labour rossette type' who would get in simply because of the rossette. I was less than impressed with Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris when I met them in a surgery a few weeks ago. Carwyn Jones is very different. He had a VERY good grasp of all the subjects put to him and even when something came up that would have thrown most people (the pig farm ?) he responded in a very professional, constructive way.

My question was worded as follows :

********************************************************

Many people, myself included, believe that the Assembly has run Wales for the last 16 years in a similar way to how successive Westminster Governments have run the UK for decades, that is, investing a completely disproportionate amount in the South East to the detriment of the rest of the Country.

Are Labour ever going to change or is the only way of taking Wales down a different path to vote you out and get someone else in who will rectify the situation ?

*********************************************************

His first comment was I disagree which was to be expected. He talked about investment in Swansea over the last 16 years and where that investment had helped Swansea move forward compared with the stagnation of the 90's. He mentioned WAG investment in SA1, the Waterfront Museum, the new campus and a few other areas (it was difficult to get stuff down on paper to aid my memory because he was actually talking to me and I wanted to listen. I also wanted to listen when he was responding to other questions).

I brought up the article in The Daily Post a few weeks ago by Rachel Flint highlighting the investment discrepancy of £450 or so in the North compared with £1014 in the South. I also said if a South East/South West split was done the figure would be far more than £1014 in the South East and far less than £1014 in the South West.

He said he didn't recognize the figures and, to be fair, giving simple figures like that without detail about how Rachel determined them means you can't really argue for them. For balance he said investment in health is £135 (North) to £118 (South) and, if he'd quoted education spend it would probably have shown something similar. Not surprising comparing a rural with an urban area.

He said Swansea was much better than 10/15 years ago. Can't argue with that. He also brought up the Quadrant which he said was built in 1981 (I thoght it was even earlier). He didn't actually say it but I took from what he said that he was inferring that Swansea needed (deserved ?) a newer, more modern main shopping area. This will be addressed if the new proposed City Centre redevelopment happens but we've been there before a few times. It didn't happen then and my breath is bated waiting on the new plans.

Having previously talked about The Metro System and M4 relief road at Brynglas he also brought up the huge problem of the M4 at Port Talbot which is a similarly huge barrier for the Swansea area. Nothing was said about doing anything about it, he simply stated that the problem upgrading that will be enormous if it ever happens. I suppose that means that they have at least talked about it.

From a Wales wide perspective I brought up the road between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth which I mentioned in a previous post. From memory he was able to talk about the various improvements that HAVE been made on that route and up towards Machynlleth. There was no hint of substantial investment plans in that or any other routes around mid/West/North Wales. He did say that large investments have to be made where they have the greatest impact (if that is the case then Port Talbot will happen before anything at all in the rest of Wales, barring the South East. And that's not very likely to happen is it). And if that is the argument that prevails then everything will happen where the greatest populations are, eventually including Swansea. The trouble with that is that three quarters of Wales will only ever get piecemeal investment. It all depends what you measure as benefit.

The answers didn't change my views about the disparity in funding but it did show that, if you want to argue points like this you need to know in forensic detail what you are talking about and you need more than five minutes to talk about it. For example, when he mentioned WAG investment in SA1, which i'm sure there was, it would be handy to be able to quote actual indisputable WAG figures which I imagine would be miniscule in comparison to WAG spend on Cardiff Bay.

Hope you enjoyed. I don't know if it's of any use.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:43 - Oct 18 with 1610 viewsblueytheblue

WAG didn't contribute to our extension. It was paid for by the club using a UEFA grant.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:50 - Oct 18 with 1600 viewsDr_Winston

Ex-Offender management is an issue everywhere.

Obviously a large proportion of offenders are hardened recividists who would in all likelihood commit further offences no matter how much help they were offered, but there are those who want to avoid going back down the same road and have little choice but to due to the lack of opportunities available to them.

That's been the case for as long as I can remember.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:56 - Oct 18 with 1541 viewsPrivate_Partz

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:40 - Oct 18 by johnlangy

I mentioned previously that I was going to the Carwyn Connects event in the Dylan Thomas centre. This happened on Thursday night and here's a rundown of what happened.

There were about 70 people there and the Q&A started at 6 pm and lasted till 7.30. There were about 15 questions asked. Some may have been emailed before the event but most, as far as I could tell, were handed in on the night a few minutes before 6 (including mine). When they took to the stage the MC said Carwyn had not seen the questions but, even if he had seen them prep time would have been minimal.

The questions covered investment, Welsh Council reorg, Swansea Bay Region stuff, the problem of how to help the homeless, setting up a centre for the Welsh Tamil community and, believe it or not, the suggestion that the WAG should create a pig farm (not a typo) so that ex offenders, when they come out of prison, could work there as a half way house to help them integrate back into society. That one sounds a bit odd but the bloke asking the question (an ex offender himself) was the politest, most well mannered person there and the idea not nearly as odd as it first sounds. He had trained as a stockman while in prison.

Anyway, Mr Jones is certainly not your typical 'donkey with Labour rossette type' who would get in simply because of the rossette. I was less than impressed with Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris when I met them in a surgery a few weeks ago. Carwyn Jones is very different. He had a VERY good grasp of all the subjects put to him and even when something came up that would have thrown most people (the pig farm ?) he responded in a very professional, constructive way.

My question was worded as follows :

********************************************************

Many people, myself included, believe that the Assembly has run Wales for the last 16 years in a similar way to how successive Westminster Governments have run the UK for decades, that is, investing a completely disproportionate amount in the South East to the detriment of the rest of the Country.

Are Labour ever going to change or is the only way of taking Wales down a different path to vote you out and get someone else in who will rectify the situation ?

*********************************************************

His first comment was I disagree which was to be expected. He talked about investment in Swansea over the last 16 years and where that investment had helped Swansea move forward compared with the stagnation of the 90's. He mentioned WAG investment in SA1, the Waterfront Museum, the new campus and a few other areas (it was difficult to get stuff down on paper to aid my memory because he was actually talking to me and I wanted to listen. I also wanted to listen when he was responding to other questions).

I brought up the article in The Daily Post a few weeks ago by Rachel Flint highlighting the investment discrepancy of £450 or so in the North compared with £1014 in the South. I also said if a South East/South West split was done the figure would be far more than £1014 in the South East and far less than £1014 in the South West.

He said he didn't recognize the figures and, to be fair, giving simple figures like that without detail about how Rachel determined them means you can't really argue for them. For balance he said investment in health is £135 (North) to £118 (South) and, if he'd quoted education spend it would probably have shown something similar. Not surprising comparing a rural with an urban area.

He said Swansea was much better than 10/15 years ago. Can't argue with that. He also brought up the Quadrant which he said was built in 1981 (I thoght it was even earlier). He didn't actually say it but I took from what he said that he was inferring that Swansea needed (deserved ?) a newer, more modern main shopping area. This will be addressed if the new proposed City Centre redevelopment happens but we've been there before a few times. It didn't happen then and my breath is bated waiting on the new plans.

Having previously talked about The Metro System and M4 relief road at Brynglas he also brought up the huge problem of the M4 at Port Talbot which is a similarly huge barrier for the Swansea area. Nothing was said about doing anything about it, he simply stated that the problem upgrading that will be enormous if it ever happens. I suppose that means that they have at least talked about it.

From a Wales wide perspective I brought up the road between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth which I mentioned in a previous post. From memory he was able to talk about the various improvements that HAVE been made on that route and up towards Machynlleth. There was no hint of substantial investment plans in that or any other routes around mid/West/North Wales. He did say that large investments have to be made where they have the greatest impact (if that is the case then Port Talbot will happen before anything at all in the rest of Wales, barring the South East. And that's not very likely to happen is it). And if that is the argument that prevails then everything will happen where the greatest populations are, eventually including Swansea. The trouble with that is that three quarters of Wales will only ever get piecemeal investment. It all depends what you measure as benefit.

The answers didn't change my views about the disparity in funding but it did show that, if you want to argue points like this you need to know in forensic detail what you are talking about and you need more than five minutes to talk about it. For example, when he mentioned WAG investment in SA1, which i'm sure there was, it would be handy to be able to quote actual indisputable WAG figures which I imagine would be miniscule in comparison to WAG spend on Cardiff Bay.

Hope you enjoyed. I don't know if it's of any use.


Many thanks for that John. I wished I could have been there but my daughters graduation in Cheltenham clashed with Carwyn's visit.
It is all pretty depressing as it seems Welsh Labour will carry on in its own merry way leaving three quarters of Wales a backwater. I am not even that optimistic that swansea will get anything, even after all Cardiff's supposed issues have been addressed. Travelling back from Cheltenham during rush hour again confirmed for me that the twin tunnel issue is not that bad and delays at Port Talbot are at a similar level.
Forensic detail is indeed the answer to catch out the professional politicians. The problem is getting hold of this information as it always seem to me that any Cardiff spend is always well hidden in an 'All Wales' figure.
Every little helps however and we should be badgering our politicians at every opportunity.

You have mission in life to hold out your hand, To help the other guy out, Help your fellow man. Stan Ridgway

0
WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:13 - Oct 19 with 1444 viewsCopperJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:40 - Oct 18 by johnlangy

I mentioned previously that I was going to the Carwyn Connects event in the Dylan Thomas centre. This happened on Thursday night and here's a rundown of what happened.

There were about 70 people there and the Q&A started at 6 pm and lasted till 7.30. There were about 15 questions asked. Some may have been emailed before the event but most, as far as I could tell, were handed in on the night a few minutes before 6 (including mine). When they took to the stage the MC said Carwyn had not seen the questions but, even if he had seen them prep time would have been minimal.

The questions covered investment, Welsh Council reorg, Swansea Bay Region stuff, the problem of how to help the homeless, setting up a centre for the Welsh Tamil community and, believe it or not, the suggestion that the WAG should create a pig farm (not a typo) so that ex offenders, when they come out of prison, could work there as a half way house to help them integrate back into society. That one sounds a bit odd but the bloke asking the question (an ex offender himself) was the politest, most well mannered person there and the idea not nearly as odd as it first sounds. He had trained as a stockman while in prison.

Anyway, Mr Jones is certainly not your typical 'donkey with Labour rossette type' who would get in simply because of the rossette. I was less than impressed with Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris when I met them in a surgery a few weeks ago. Carwyn Jones is very different. He had a VERY good grasp of all the subjects put to him and even when something came up that would have thrown most people (the pig farm ?) he responded in a very professional, constructive way.

My question was worded as follows :

********************************************************

Many people, myself included, believe that the Assembly has run Wales for the last 16 years in a similar way to how successive Westminster Governments have run the UK for decades, that is, investing a completely disproportionate amount in the South East to the detriment of the rest of the Country.

Are Labour ever going to change or is the only way of taking Wales down a different path to vote you out and get someone else in who will rectify the situation ?

*********************************************************

His first comment was I disagree which was to be expected. He talked about investment in Swansea over the last 16 years and where that investment had helped Swansea move forward compared with the stagnation of the 90's. He mentioned WAG investment in SA1, the Waterfront Museum, the new campus and a few other areas (it was difficult to get stuff down on paper to aid my memory because he was actually talking to me and I wanted to listen. I also wanted to listen when he was responding to other questions).

I brought up the article in The Daily Post a few weeks ago by Rachel Flint highlighting the investment discrepancy of £450 or so in the North compared with £1014 in the South. I also said if a South East/South West split was done the figure would be far more than £1014 in the South East and far less than £1014 in the South West.

He said he didn't recognize the figures and, to be fair, giving simple figures like that without detail about how Rachel determined them means you can't really argue for them. For balance he said investment in health is £135 (North) to £118 (South) and, if he'd quoted education spend it would probably have shown something similar. Not surprising comparing a rural with an urban area.

He said Swansea was much better than 10/15 years ago. Can't argue with that. He also brought up the Quadrant which he said was built in 1981 (I thoght it was even earlier). He didn't actually say it but I took from what he said that he was inferring that Swansea needed (deserved ?) a newer, more modern main shopping area. This will be addressed if the new proposed City Centre redevelopment happens but we've been there before a few times. It didn't happen then and my breath is bated waiting on the new plans.

Having previously talked about The Metro System and M4 relief road at Brynglas he also brought up the huge problem of the M4 at Port Talbot which is a similarly huge barrier for the Swansea area. Nothing was said about doing anything about it, he simply stated that the problem upgrading that will be enormous if it ever happens. I suppose that means that they have at least talked about it.

From a Wales wide perspective I brought up the road between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth which I mentioned in a previous post. From memory he was able to talk about the various improvements that HAVE been made on that route and up towards Machynlleth. There was no hint of substantial investment plans in that or any other routes around mid/West/North Wales. He did say that large investments have to be made where they have the greatest impact (if that is the case then Port Talbot will happen before anything at all in the rest of Wales, barring the South East. And that's not very likely to happen is it). And if that is the argument that prevails then everything will happen where the greatest populations are, eventually including Swansea. The trouble with that is that three quarters of Wales will only ever get piecemeal investment. It all depends what you measure as benefit.

The answers didn't change my views about the disparity in funding but it did show that, if you want to argue points like this you need to know in forensic detail what you are talking about and you need more than five minutes to talk about it. For example, when he mentioned WAG investment in SA1, which i'm sure there was, it would be handy to be able to quote actual indisputable WAG figures which I imagine would be miniscule in comparison to WAG spend on Cardiff Bay.

Hope you enjoyed. I don't know if it's of any use.


Well done Langy, nice to see someone will challenge him on the facts, even if our AMs wont.

He is, of course, completely lying. Someone posted in another thread that the WAG spent £800m on Cardiff Bay, and I dread to think how much on St Davids.

When you consider they spend £20m just maintaining the Bay and happy to throw money at BBC Wales to relocate to Cardiff Centre, I think Carwyn's argument that we get even funding is pretty laughable - they wouldn't even pay £20m for a new marina for us...and the vast bulk of Swansea Uni was funded by the EU and companies.

I expected nothing less that for him to completely deny it. He brought up the Quadrant being from 1981 - the last time a shopping centre was built in Swansea and it was before devolution - what have they done for our city centre since devolution....

Poll: The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why?

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:00 - Oct 19 with 1381 viewsymaohyd

I hugely admire the efforts made by the original poster and will get involved. But to add to this thread:

'From little acorns mighty oaks grow'.

Cardiff has benefited from a heck of a lot of 'little acorns'. Some from public funding, some from private, the two though have hugely complimented each other.

The Millenium Stadium, Millenium Centre, St Davids 2, and so on. People flood the city and therefore, hotels, restaurants and other connected industries grow in abundance.

Us on the other hand, where are the little acorns?

Well our beloved Swans are one and unfortunately, due to the size of the stadium, probably only the global brand of the city has benifitted. Other than the Swans I can't see much else.

Blog: World Cup Performance = Transfer Speculation?

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