| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? 09:45 - Dec 9 with 2915 views | ymaohyd |
Indulge me here for a thread (as with all others) of a modicum of fact and plenty of speculation.
As a background bit of info, I used to study journalism and love looking through the newspapers and spotting that important story that will, one day become the headline news. The operative word there is spotting, as in the modern world of sensationalist reporting and headlines the most important stories are often hidden away in a corner.
An example would be a few years ago when a sideline story regarding concerns about Sepp Blatter and his integrity appeared in one of the papers to become one of the biggest sporting stories of the 21st century.
Anyway, back to last May and there I sat with my wife at the annual players awards night. The night has improved beyond recognition for the way it is run but has (imo) lost a bit of character. A night though when as with every other recent year, it's been fantastic to be a Swans fan. Videos of fantastic goals, plenty of wine, everyone basking in the glory of the highest ever premier league finish with a young manager destined to get to the very top of his profession, heady days indeed.
Then along came Jay Fulton! Being interviewed by Kevin Johns having received an award that I can't remember what for, I can only assume it was for young player of the year, certainly wasn't for mr personality. My wife and I glanced at one another as Jay produced a string of one word answers to questions about life as a Swan and the future, sounding mightily pis sed off with his lot.
Going back to my enjoyment of spotting the stories that start off as little acorns etc I did wonder if amongst all the back slapping and revelry of the night if trouble was brewing around the corner?
Let me take you back to transfer deadline day of January 2014. Jay signed for the Swans on a two and a half year deal from Falkirk. Along if my memory is correct with a few other young Scottish players. Shortly after Laudrup departed and in stepped GM.
At this point Jay was gushing in his praise for life as a Swan. Along the lines of Garry Monk has me training with the first team, he's brilliant I love it (I'd heard Laudrup took little or no interest in the young players). That season Jay made his debut in the famous Shelvey goal game against Villa, coming on as a sub and looking a real prospect a gem that the Swans had found, once again as a club we looked to be running things right in every way. Just to highlight I'm not talking about his debut being last season here but the season before.
So at this point I'd like to give a bit of colour to this thread and ask ...'What the fu ck has gone wrong'?
Last season Jay made, I believe two! appearances in the league, one being the away win at Southampton.
He is now on loan at Oldham!
Going back to my opening few lines, this thread is (apart from Jay sounding mightily pis sed off at the awards night) all speculation. He might just have been on a wind up, egged on by the other players to wind Kevin Johns up, I don't know, but the facts seem to back up that things haven't gone well.
I have no idea if Jay has picked up a bad injury during this time, If Jay's attitude has stunk, if having a taste of the good life has turned him into an almighty pain in the arse, if he's lazy, etc etc.
But using the thread title, Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? can you twist this situation to highlight, possibly what has gone wrong in recent months?
After a promising start to his managerial career, has Garry Monk developed a weakness, that many managers have of becoming focussed on the 1st team and not giving youth a chance?
Are young players having the right coaching to develop?
Have his man (GM's) management skills regressed and his personality changed to the extent where a young player once sounding so full of enthusiasm, sounded like a man going to the gallows!
Is our scouting system any good, where are the quality young players coming through? At a time when we look, shot in midfield where are the youngsters with attitude, begging for a chance to show what they can do?
Sadly in Jay Fulton's case up in fuc king Oldham! |  |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:47 - Dec 9 with 2893 views | Jackanapes |
Eh? |  |
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“The stupidest thing she knew was for people to act like they knew all about the things they knew absolutely nothing about.†|
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:50 - Dec 9 with 2866 views | caerleon_jack |
He's not the only one. Grimes has gone from being one of England's hottest prospects at youth level football to being persona non grata at the club.
He's looked ok on the couple of run outs he's had, and I'm not saying he should be a first team regular, but GM appears to have given up on giving youth (Mo Barrow) aside a chance. |  |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:55 - Dec 9 with 2825 views | ymaohyd |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:50 - Dec 9 by caerleon_jack |
He's not the only one. Grimes has gone from being one of England's hottest prospects at youth level football to being persona non grata at the club.
He's looked ok on the couple of run outs he's had, and I'm not saying he should be a first team regular, but GM appears to have given up on giving youth (Mo Barrow) aside a chance. |
The only reason Barrow came back is that Dyer went. That all seemed ill thought out and badly planned. No problem with Dyer going, but to be replaced with a youngster who had been destined for a season loan?
If Barrow was deemed good enough he shouldn't have been sent out on loan. | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:00 - Dec 9 with 2793 views | caerleon_jack |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:55 - Dec 9 by ymaohyd |
The only reason Barrow came back is that Dyer went. That all seemed ill thought out and badly planned. No problem with Dyer going, but to be replaced with a youngster who had been destined for a season loan?
If Barrow was deemed good enough he shouldn't have been sent out on loan. |
Garry's always had a thing for Barrow. I thing he thinks Barrow's pace and directness will get us out of a hole (because it did once against Arsenal).
All other youth prospects seem to be being ignored this season though. I'm not sure that I buy into there being a conspiracy, but there does seem to be a shift in focus from Monk. | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:08 - Dec 9 with 2705 views | perchrockjack |
We seem to have wasted much of our income on dross or those not ready for the premiership. |  |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:18 - Dec 9 with 2674 views | ymaohyd |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:00 - Dec 9 by caerleon_jack |
Garry's always had a thing for Barrow. I thing he thinks Barrow's pace and directness will get us out of a hole (because it did once against Arsenal).
All other youth prospects seem to be being ignored this season though. I'm not sure that I buy into there being a conspiracy, but there does seem to be a shift in focus from Monk. |
Yes, the Arsenal game was the perfect example of a player with pace being able to cause all kinds of problems in broken play at the end of a game. Very different to starting a game though as we are finding out with Montero.
I don't think there's a conspiracy either, but why should a young player who seemed to have so much potential, not be anywhere near the first team squad?
There are loads of possible answers, from laying the blame at GM's door to not having a team of coaching staff who aren't looking after the young players in training and away from the Swans.
There's an old saying that many successful people use..'The harder I work the luckier I get'.
The Jay Fulton I saw against Villa in 2014 on his debut, with hard work, good coaching, the opportunity to learn off some quality international players, should be at the very least in the match day squad, not on loan at Oldham.
The coaching structure at the club isn't right and Huw Jenkins' well crafted words seemed to highlight that yesterday. We wait and see what the outcome is, hopefully by 2016! | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:35 - Dec 9 with 2595 views | dameedna |
Fulton will be with us if we are relegated.
Hopefully he'll do well.
Now is not a time to be relying on the likes of Fulton Grimes Barrow Bartley. |  | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:42 - Dec 9 with 2559 views | Clinton |
An alternative is to scrap the development set-up and concentrate on identifying other players from other clubs development set up and out on loan who we can poach and who are near the required Prem standard.
Then let them train with the first team so they are ready if required. Alos give them opportunities off the bench.
You could only have a few of these at any one time, but you kick them out if they dont quickly shape up.
Its selfish and does nothing to develop local talent, or welsh talent, but its an alternative. [Post edited 9 Dec 2015 10:45]
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| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:50 - Dec 9 with 2516 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 09:50 - Dec 9 by caerleon_jack |
He's not the only one. Grimes has gone from being one of England's hottest prospects at youth level football to being persona non grata at the club.
He's looked ok on the couple of run outs he's had, and I'm not saying he should be a first team regular, but GM appears to have given up on giving youth (Mo Barrow) aside a chance. |
When it was forced on us last year many looked like they could make the step up - though Fulton who looked one dimensional 1st couple of games started playing a lot better - particularly in the game v southampton where he didn't put a foot wrong positionally
As you said maybe not 1st team regulars but certainly good enough to come in and do a job. Makes me wonder why we have so many midfielders on our books fighting for places and still having Fulton, Grimes
Unless we are building a younger team in the background on lower wages for when we are back in the Championship |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:17 - Dec 9 with 2411 views | caerleon_jack |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:35 - Dec 9 by dameedna |
Fulton will be with us if we are relegated.
Hopefully he'll do well.
Now is not a time to be relying on the likes of Fulton Grimes Barrow Bartley. |
But it is the time to be relying on all the first teamers who are offering nothing?
I'm not suggesting we should flood the team with the likes of Fulton and Grimes, but we are sticking with the same dross week-in week-out whilst players who appeared to have a future with us last season have been sent out on loan or, in Grimes' case, have disappeared altogether. | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:18 - Dec 9 with 2404 views | jack247 |
I'd imagine Fulton is at Oldham because Garry sees him as behind Ki, Leon, Cork and Shelvey for the central midfield role.
In the little I've seen of him, he seems more of a Rodgers or Laudrup style Swansea player (like Britton, Allen, Hernandez etc), than someone who fits Garrys mould.
There could be something sinister going on behind the scenes, but I'd think it far more likely that Garry didn't see him challenging for the first team so sent him out on loan. | | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:26 - Dec 9 with 2371 views | caerleon_jack |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:42 - Dec 9 by Clinton |
An alternative is to scrap the development set-up and concentrate on identifying other players from other clubs development set up and out on loan who we can poach and who are near the required Prem standard.
Then let them train with the first team so they are ready if required. Alos give them opportunities off the bench.
You could only have a few of these at any one time, but you kick them out if they dont quickly shape up.
Its selfish and does nothing to develop local talent, or welsh talent, but its an alternative. [Post edited 9 Dec 2015 10:45]
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That's what we have effectively done over the last two or three years whilst we have been setting up the academy.
For all those who moan about the academy producing nothing, they obviously have no clue about how an academy works. In the meantime we need players to populate the u21s and possibly push for first team football, and I think we've been quite good at identifying young talent that has been discarded by bigger clubs, or have started to establish themselves lower down the leagues/Scotland.
I can't believe that it costs as much as some on here seem to think, and all we need to do is find one or two players that can become first team players or be sold on for a profit and it is worthwhile.
What I find bizarre though is that Garry seemed to have policy last year that he was prepared to give chances to young players, even if it's just to include them in the match day squad and give them exposure to the first team set-up. That has stopped this season, and not just since the run of recent bad form. And I've got to be honest, Ki was non-existent on the weekend (apart from his header), and has been for some time. Gylfi looks a shadow of the player he was when Bony was here. Jonjo has gone backwards since being picked for England. Cork has fallen from grace. Britton is quite clearly past it. Would Grimes or Fulton have been any worse against Bournemouth or Leicester? | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:30 - Dec 9 with 2358 views | DafyddHuw |
I tthink that youngsters not getting a chance in the first team is more of a Prem thing than a Swansea thing. Plenty of kids all over waiting to come through, but clubs always go for an expensive foreign (usually) player.
It's the fear of losing innit. It's Prem mentality. Which is one thing I won't miss when we're relegated. At least then we won't have the fear factor, th naked commercialism/capitalism, the being in a league we can't possibly win. |  | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:42 - Dec 9 with 2312 views | Clinton |
Do we look after these boys properly ?
No doubt they get a first class football education.
What about the other stuff these young chaps need like educational and emotional support and the like.
If its not already there, we could have a volunteer network to help them out. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:46 - Dec 9 with 2298 views | JBT95 |
I think half the problem is that teams are only allowed 7 subs. Maybe it should be increased to as many as you want under 22/23 or something to give youth a chance. [Post edited 9 Dec 2015 11:46]
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:52 - Dec 9 with 2265 views | Clinton |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:46 - Dec 9 by JBT95 |
I think half the problem is that teams are only allowed 7 subs. Maybe it should be increased to as many as you want under 22/23 or something to give youth a chance. [Post edited 9 Dec 2015 11:46]
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Good plan, but we cant afford to extend the bench. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:59 - Dec 9 with 2245 views | caerleon_jack |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:30 - Dec 9 by DafyddHuw |
I tthink that youngsters not getting a chance in the first team is more of a Prem thing than a Swansea thing. Plenty of kids all over waiting to come through, but clubs always go for an expensive foreign (usually) player.
It's the fear of losing innit. It's Prem mentality. Which is one thing I won't miss when we're relegated. At least then we won't have the fear factor, th naked commercialism/capitalism, the being in a league we can't possibly win. |
I'm sorry, I don't understand the viewpoint of people saying they won't miss being in the PL. If we get relegated, yeah, I'll still go down the Liberty, even if/when we end up back down in League Two (or whatever it'll be called then). But having been down the Vetch on a Tuesday night watching Alan Cork's Swansea, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to go back there. It's not fun, it's not entertainment, it's dire and it's depressing. I'm not saying our current run is laugh-a-minute, but I'd rather be 11 games with 1 win in the PL than 11 games 1 win in League One.
We are not a big club. We do not attract the crowds that other clubs do at the lower levels. We are riding the crest of a wave at the moment, and the Swans being in the Premier League for the next few seasons is not just vital to our future, but I believe to the future of the city. I don't think it's any coincidence that the (slow) regeneration in the city is finally taking place after decades of broken promises right at a time when we are attracting hundreds of thousands of visitors and millions of pounds of income to the city. The council might not be doing us any favours, but our presence at the top table is doing them the world of good. I honestly do not believe that Terry Matthews would be heading the waterfront regeneration at all if there wasn't a belief that it will turn a profit, and this has all come about since we were promoted. | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 12:01 - Dec 9 with 2240 views | LeonisGod |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:46 - Dec 9 by JBT95 |
I think half the problem is that teams are only allowed 7 subs. Maybe it should be increased to as many as you want under 22/23 or something to give youth a chance. [Post edited 9 Dec 2015 11:46]
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I've always thought have 4 subs sat on the bench you can't use is a waste of effort and money, let alone more. A sensible competitive reserves competition would help, but I'm not sure how you'd raise the importance of it. Or the B team model that the have in some of these funny foreign places. Or we get a proper feeder club in the UK or overseas where it's easy to send these boys out to for a few months-year. |  | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 12:46 - Dec 9 with 2118 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:30 - Dec 9 by DafyddHuw |
I tthink that youngsters not getting a chance in the first team is more of a Prem thing than a Swansea thing. Plenty of kids all over waiting to come through, but clubs always go for an expensive foreign (usually) player.
It's the fear of losing innit. It's Prem mentality. Which is one thing I won't miss when we're relegated. At least then we won't have the fear factor, th naked commercialism/capitalism, the being in a league we can't possibly win. |
I don't think so, how about
Lakaku
Sterling
Ameobi
McEachran
Barkley
Rodwell
Borahino
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Wilshere
to name just a few. | | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 12:53 - Dec 9 with 2079 views | ymaohyd |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 10:08 - Dec 9 by perchrockjack |
We seem to have wasted much of our income on dross or those not ready for the premiership. |
The mighty pyramid...no not a football formation but a structure that any organisation sporting or otherwise should adopt to achieve excellence in whatever field that you exist.
The tiers that form a pyramid should all exist to allow the tip to represent the very best of what that company/sports team are all about.
The best example of a sporting 'organisation' getting all the tiers of the pyramid right in my opinion would be the All Blacks.
For a country with a relatively small population, they have an incredible record of being the number 1 rugby team in the world for decade upon decade.
The great Sean Fitzpatrick once spoke in his terms about the All Black pyramid structure and how it was there to support players to achieve the ultimate in New Zealand sport to become an All Black.
From schools rugby, youth, club, provincial, super rugby to become an All Black, a poor player never dons that black jersey, In the summer whereas our kids do little, in NZ kids are playing tag rugby developing and fine tuning the necessary basic skills. Fitzpatrick once said that every time NZ lost they would analyse the loss to the nth degree, where had they gone wrong etc etc. Of course they aren't going to win every game, world cup but their record is remarkable and for me represents the best there is in sport of having a pyramid structure.
You look at the Swans pyramid and we have been superb. The foundation - a board, who are fans, businessmen and importantly have their fingers on the pulse of what is going on, next up consistently the board chose good young managers who are determined, next up a style of play developed by Martinez, next players who play superbly in that structure and the tip of the pyramid has been the style and quality of football played with players comfortable on the ball, even from the goalie up.
This season however the pyramid is falling apart.
What we all have to appreciate is that players can succumb to nerves, anxiety etc as much as the rest of us. You take Gomis, love him loathe him, he's clearly struggling. It will always be difficult for a manager to decide when to rest a forward and when to persevere. So the tip of the pyramid is everything that has gone in to developing the first team squad. So Gomis is dropped, in comes Eder? Unfair but in my opinion at this moment in time not good enough.
At the back, drop Fernandez, in comes Bartley? Not good enough.
Out wide. Routledge is clearly struggling, yet who else? Barrow, not good enough Ayew, out of position. Dyer gone. Montero can be brilliant but hit and miss.
All over the pitch, the Swans pyramid, be it style of play, players comfortable with that style of play, squad players who will come in and with ease do a job has all gone.
And what you have said (Perch) as part of that pyramid, the quality of firstly identifying, nurturing, conditioning, coaching young players to challenge for the first team is clearly not working.
After 4 and a bit years in the prem we should now have young players coming through, so if players are out of form, have issues, support them, give youngsters a chance and create a structure where there is completion and quality all over the squad, with players determined to and able to give 100%..because they have to, to keep their place.
What Huw Jenkins alluded to yesterday, key component parts of the club aren't working as well as they have done in the past. We need to get back to making sure, that structure is rock solid and as Sir Alex did so well in his dynasty at Man U, as soon as the signs are there, that things aren't right, act as soon as is feasible to do so and get the structure back in place.
We have let our standards slip, is it GM's fault or a collective responsibility? | |
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 14:07 - Dec 9 with 1891 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 12:53 - Dec 9 by ymaohyd |
The mighty pyramid...no not a football formation but a structure that any organisation sporting or otherwise should adopt to achieve excellence in whatever field that you exist.
The tiers that form a pyramid should all exist to allow the tip to represent the very best of what that company/sports team are all about.
The best example of a sporting 'organisation' getting all the tiers of the pyramid right in my opinion would be the All Blacks.
For a country with a relatively small population, they have an incredible record of being the number 1 rugby team in the world for decade upon decade.
The great Sean Fitzpatrick once spoke in his terms about the All Black pyramid structure and how it was there to support players to achieve the ultimate in New Zealand sport to become an All Black.
From schools rugby, youth, club, provincial, super rugby to become an All Black, a poor player never dons that black jersey, In the summer whereas our kids do little, in NZ kids are playing tag rugby developing and fine tuning the necessary basic skills. Fitzpatrick once said that every time NZ lost they would analyse the loss to the nth degree, where had they gone wrong etc etc. Of course they aren't going to win every game, world cup but their record is remarkable and for me represents the best there is in sport of having a pyramid structure.
You look at the Swans pyramid and we have been superb. The foundation - a board, who are fans, businessmen and importantly have their fingers on the pulse of what is going on, next up consistently the board chose good young managers who are determined, next up a style of play developed by Martinez, next players who play superbly in that structure and the tip of the pyramid has been the style and quality of football played with players comfortable on the ball, even from the goalie up.
This season however the pyramid is falling apart.
What we all have to appreciate is that players can succumb to nerves, anxiety etc as much as the rest of us. You take Gomis, love him loathe him, he's clearly struggling. It will always be difficult for a manager to decide when to rest a forward and when to persevere. So the tip of the pyramid is everything that has gone in to developing the first team squad. So Gomis is dropped, in comes Eder? Unfair but in my opinion at this moment in time not good enough.
At the back, drop Fernandez, in comes Bartley? Not good enough.
Out wide. Routledge is clearly struggling, yet who else? Barrow, not good enough Ayew, out of position. Dyer gone. Montero can be brilliant but hit and miss.
All over the pitch, the Swans pyramid, be it style of play, players comfortable with that style of play, squad players who will come in and with ease do a job has all gone.
And what you have said (Perch) as part of that pyramid, the quality of firstly identifying, nurturing, conditioning, coaching young players to challenge for the first team is clearly not working.
After 4 and a bit years in the prem we should now have young players coming through, so if players are out of form, have issues, support them, give youngsters a chance and create a structure where there is completion and quality all over the squad, with players determined to and able to give 100%..because they have to, to keep their place.
What Huw Jenkins alluded to yesterday, key component parts of the club aren't working as well as they have done in the past. We need to get back to making sure, that structure is rock solid and as Sir Alex did so well in his dynasty at Man U, as soon as the signs are there, that things aren't right, act as soon as is feasible to do so and get the structure back in place.
We have let our standards slip, is it GM's fault or a collective responsibility? |
Collective Responsibility.
At the top should be HJ as self selected Director of Football.
If it has been so obvious to fans that things have not be right with the 1st team since around August it should have been even more so to those within the camp.
The Youngsters are doing much better since KOL hasn't had much to do with them but even now they still insist on playing them totally out of position during games and not necessarily playing their best players either.
Of course some of them are no longer available being loaned out all over the place. | | | |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 20:24 - Dec 9 with 1713 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 11:26 - Dec 9 by caerleon_jack |
That's what we have effectively done over the last two or three years whilst we have been setting up the academy.
For all those who moan about the academy producing nothing, they obviously have no clue about how an academy works. In the meantime we need players to populate the u21s and possibly push for first team football, and I think we've been quite good at identifying young talent that has been discarded by bigger clubs, or have started to establish themselves lower down the leagues/Scotland.
I can't believe that it costs as much as some on here seem to think, and all we need to do is find one or two players that can become first team players or be sold on for a profit and it is worthwhile.
What I find bizarre though is that Garry seemed to have policy last year that he was prepared to give chances to young players, even if it's just to include them in the match day squad and give them exposure to the first team set-up. That has stopped this season, and not just since the run of recent bad form. And I've got to be honest, Ki was non-existent on the weekend (apart from his header), and has been for some time. Gylfi looks a shadow of the player he was when Bony was here. Jonjo has gone backwards since being picked for England. Cork has fallen from grace. Britton is quite clearly past it. Would Grimes or Fulton have been any worse against Bournemouth or Leicester? |
Except that the likes of Joey, Jazz, and Ben all came through in the poor old centre of excellence days under Curt, whereas since the significant academy investment - then, well ....nobody at all. But be great to see this happen. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Is Jay Fulton Garry Monks Nemesis? on 20:56 - Dec 9 with 1594 views | attila_the_hun |
tl,dr |  |
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