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Tory manifesto - discuss 07:38 - May 18 with 9961 viewsepaul

To end free school meals for infants, for some it's the only hot meal they get, dispicable scum

The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day The b*stards are coming back though

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:23 - May 19 with 526 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:17 - May 19 by Brynmill_Jack

Is that Perchrock, Highjack or Bluey????


There's a valid point to that view on manifestos.

Realistically, they are "best wishes". Any manifesto promise for this term is obviously going to be impacted by whatever happens with Brexit. Events happen, circumstances change.

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:26 - May 19 with 523 viewsHighjack

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:17 - May 19 by Brynmill_Jack

Is that Perchrock, Highjack or Bluey????


You're mistaken. I didn't vote for this government last time and I'm not going to vote for them this time either.

Poll: What should Lord Bony change his name to?

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:27 - May 19 with 522 viewsLeonWasGod

Tory manifesto - discuss on 22:15 - May 18 by pikeypaul

The trouble is they are so vague about the "means testing"

Probably along the lines of in receipt of pension credit or a similar benefit if
so no form filling will be necessary,I hope so for our old age sake.

They ruled out a VAT increase.
[Post edited 18 May 22:16]


They're vague about anything to do with finances. Hardly anything in there at all about how any policies will be paid for.

But they know they can get away with it because people have been conditioned to trust them, irrespective of any evidence. Their massively inflated marketing/ propaganda budget has been used well. Fair play, they've done a great job of manipulating their audience and stitching up the other parties.

Straight out of the Bliar / Campbell text book on how to hoodwink the people.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:44 - May 19 with 509 viewsswanjackal

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:27 - May 19 by LeonWasGod

They're vague about anything to do with finances. Hardly anything in there at all about how any policies will be paid for.

But they know they can get away with it because people have been conditioned to trust them, irrespective of any evidence. Their massively inflated marketing/ propaganda budget has been used well. Fair play, they've done a great job of manipulating their audience and stitching up the other parties.

Straight out of the Bliar / Campbell text book on how to hoodwink the people.


You can throw that out for all manifestos though when you scratch the surface. Probably why so many campaign promises fall by the wayside when power is won/extended.

Hypocritically hypocritical !

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:54 - May 19 with 494 viewslondonlisa2001

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:27 - May 19 by LeonWasGod

They're vague about anything to do with finances. Hardly anything in there at all about how any policies will be paid for.

But they know they can get away with it because people have been conditioned to trust them, irrespective of any evidence. Their massively inflated marketing/ propaganda budget has been used well. Fair play, they've done a great job of manipulating their audience and stitching up the other parties.

Straight out of the Bliar / Campbell text book on how to hoodwink the people.


They're relying on the performance of Abbott et al being so poor on the numbers that people will assume they can't be worse.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 13:29 - May 19 with 457 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:06 - May 19 by Brynmill_Jack

Labour have challenged the Tories to go public and have both manifestos costed out independently for the last three elections . On every occasion the Tories have declined.

John McDonnell has repeatedly asked Phillip Hammond for a television debate over the issue. He won't debate.
So who exactly are the cowards again? As well as thieves and liars?


No costs

No answers

No hope .

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 15:56 - May 19 with 426 viewsJango

Tory manifesto - discuss on 10:23 - May 19 by blueytheblue

There's a valid point to that view on manifestos.

Realistically, they are "best wishes". Any manifesto promise for this term is obviously going to be impacted by whatever happens with Brexit. Events happen, circumstances change.


Getting the excuses in early. The last 7 years of failure is labour fault, the next 5 years of failure is already brexits fault.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:00 - May 19 with 421 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 15:56 - May 19 by Jango

Getting the excuses in early. The last 7 years of failure is labour fault, the next 5 years of failure is already brexits fault.


Hardly excuses, it's a bloody reality.

Any politician able to see 2 years ahead accurately, let alone 5 is a miracle worker.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

Government terms are 5 year deals, unless parliament agrees to an early election.

Article 50 was invoked earlier this year.

We leave EU in two years time.

5 - 2 = 3

Therefore, not knowing the precise outcome of talks nobody can know accurately what will need to be done at that point. Can guess, can assume worst.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:17 - May 19 with 409 viewssherpajacob

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:00 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Hardly excuses, it's a bloody reality.

Any politician able to see 2 years ahead accurately, let alone 5 is a miracle worker.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

Government terms are 5 year deals, unless parliament agrees to an early election.

Article 50 was invoked earlier this year.

We leave EU in two years time.

5 - 2 = 3

Therefore, not knowing the precise outcome of talks nobody can know accurately what will need to be done at that point. Can guess, can assume worst.


And whose fault is brexit,?

The party that promised a long term stable economic plan in 2015.

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:19 - May 19 with 405 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:17 - May 19 by sherpajacob

And whose fault is brexit,?

The party that promised a long term stable economic plan in 2015.


Is that the party whose top office holders campaigned for Remain by any chance?

Oh wait, it must have been Cameron's fault the people voted to leave...

EDIT:

As usual, the point flies over people's heads.

Nobody can predict what happens over a five year cycle accuracy. Forget Brexit, that's merely one example.

Any party who came out and said "We'd like to do X, Y and Z but recognise things can change over the years, outside factors could cause us to not do them" would be absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the media for doing so... that's why it's best to view manifestos as aims not absolutes.
[Post edited 19 May 16:22]

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:25 - May 19 with 398 viewslondonlisa2001

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:19 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Is that the party whose top office holders campaigned for Remain by any chance?

Oh wait, it must have been Cameron's fault the people voted to leave...

EDIT:

As usual, the point flies over people's heads.

Nobody can predict what happens over a five year cycle accuracy. Forget Brexit, that's merely one example.

Any party who came out and said "We'd like to do X, Y and Z but recognise things can change over the years, outside factors could cause us to not do them" would be absolutely f*cking slaughtered in the media for doing so... that's why it's best to view manifestos as aims not absolutes.
[Post edited 19 May 16:22]


It's Cameron's fault we had the bloody referendum in the first place. Hoist by his own petard.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:28 - May 19 with 390 viewsJango

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:00 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Hardly excuses, it's a bloody reality.

Any politician able to see 2 years ahead accurately, let alone 5 is a miracle worker.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

Government terms are 5 year deals, unless parliament agrees to an early election.

Article 50 was invoked earlier this year.

We leave EU in two years time.

5 - 2 = 3

Therefore, not knowing the precise outcome of talks nobody can know accurately what will need to be done at that point. Can guess, can assume worst.


I think you'll find the point has flown straight over your head. Tories have blamed their pitiful performance over the last 7 years on labour, there's no denying that. Now they are already planning to pin the blame on brexit for what will no doubt be another shambolic 5 years as far as the vast majority of people are concerned.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:30 - May 19 with 390 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:25 - May 19 by londonlisa2001

It's Cameron's fault we had the bloody referendum in the first place. Hoist by his own petard.


Eh... I think a referendum was inevitable at some point. Disquiet with EU is rising across Europe, can't be ignored forever.

Cameron believed the public were behind remaining. The big fault Cameron made was believing he could negotiate with EU, get something he could sell to the electorate. The fact EU leaders were openly mocking the deal within days of Cameron returning boosted the Leave campaign - if EU can't throw a bone then, can they ever reform?

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:39 - May 19 with 382 viewslondonlisa2001

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:30 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Eh... I think a referendum was inevitable at some point. Disquiet with EU is rising across Europe, can't be ignored forever.

Cameron believed the public were behind remaining. The big fault Cameron made was believing he could negotiate with EU, get something he could sell to the electorate. The fact EU leaders were openly mocking the deal within days of Cameron returning boosted the Leave campaign - if EU can't throw a bone then, can they ever reform?


The referendum was called in order to sort out (supposedly for once and for all) an internal struggle of principle within the Conservative party. Secondary to that was a power play between two blokes who had a massive problem with jealousy. One jealous of position, and the other jealous of perceived public popularity.

Nothing to do with disquiet across Europe, which is, incidentally, massively overplayed by our media as the recent elections in the Netherlands and France show.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:45 - May 19 with 379 viewssherpajacob

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:25 - May 19 by londonlisa2001

It's Cameron's fault we had the bloody referendum in the first place. Hoist by his own petard.


Exactly

,You can't promise long term economic stability, then hold a referendum that does exactly the opposite.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:46 - May 19 with 377 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:39 - May 19 by londonlisa2001

The referendum was called in order to sort out (supposedly for once and for all) an internal struggle of principle within the Conservative party. Secondary to that was a power play between two blokes who had a massive problem with jealousy. One jealous of position, and the other jealous of perceived public popularity.

Nothing to do with disquiet across Europe, which is, incidentally, massively overplayed by our media as the recent elections in the Netherlands and France show.


The referendum would also have been called to cut the legs off UKIP as a political strategy. Cameron gambled and lost - EU can't avoid any blame in that either.

The massive rise in vote for Le Pen showed there is disquiet which can't be ignored. Macron had to found his own party, the fact showing the distrust and dislike of the political establishment by the electorate.

Holland, Wilders gained seats. Nowhere near as many as predicted, sure, but it's again evidence of disquiet across Europe.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:52 - May 19 with 367 viewssherpajacob

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:28 - May 19 by Jango

I think you'll find the point has flown straight over your head. Tories have blamed their pitiful performance over the last 7 years on labour, there's no denying that. Now they are already planning to pin the blame on brexit for what will no doubt be another shambolic 5 years as far as the vast majority of people are concerned.


Indeed, they are already setting up the EU as the bad guys, for when no deal is forthcoming.

Assuming Mrs May wins the GE I can't see her lasting 5 years, at some point people will see the emperor is wearing no clothes.

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:54 - May 19 with 361 viewsexiledclaseboy

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:00 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Hardly excuses, it's a bloody reality.

Any politician able to see 2 years ahead accurately, let alone 5 is a miracle worker.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

Government terms are 5 year deals, unless parliament agrees to an early election.

Article 50 was invoked earlier this year.

We leave EU in two years time.

5 - 2 = 3

Therefore, not knowing the precise outcome of talks nobody can know accurately what will need to be done at that point. Can guess, can assume worst.


Would've been best not to have an unnecessary election then really wouldn't it?

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:55 - May 19 with 359 viewslondonlisa2001

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:46 - May 19 by blueytheblue

The referendum would also have been called to cut the legs off UKIP as a political strategy. Cameron gambled and lost - EU can't avoid any blame in that either.

The massive rise in vote for Le Pen showed there is disquiet which can't be ignored. Macron had to found his own party, the fact showing the distrust and dislike of the political establishment by the electorate.

Holland, Wilders gained seats. Nowhere near as many as predicted, sure, but it's again evidence of disquiet across Europe.


There was no need to cut the legs off UKIP. They would never have gained enough seats to force the issue, and election after election showed that despite support, it simply wasn't widespread enough nor strong enough. They would have fizzled out. Cameron just had to stand up to the idiots on his back benches and run the risk of being usurped by Boris. His ego couldn't stand it.

And I didn't say there wasn't disquiet, simply that it is massively overstated.

I distinctly remember being told that our Brexit was just the start, and the others would follow. Well they haven't. Nor do they show signs of doing so. Farage would have people believe we were the leaders of an unstoppable movement, at the forefront of modern European thinking. Instead, we're Billy No Mates, stuck in a corner, with our leaders quietly sobbing at the thought of what will happen.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:57 - May 19 with 354 viewsexiledclaseboy

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:30 - May 19 by blueytheblue

Eh... I think a referendum was inevitable at some point. Disquiet with EU is rising across Europe, can't be ignored forever.

Cameron believed the public were behind remaining. The big fault Cameron made was believing he could negotiate with EU, get something he could sell to the electorate. The fact EU leaders were openly mocking the deal within days of Cameron returning boosted the Leave campaign - if EU can't throw a bone then, can they ever reform?


Jesus. Revisionism at its finest. Cameron called the referendum to lance a long standing Tory party boil and to halt the rise of UKIP. No other reason. Referendums are never "inevitable" in a parliamentary democracy.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:00 - May 19 with 349 viewsmonmouth

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:55 - May 19 by londonlisa2001

There was no need to cut the legs off UKIP. They would never have gained enough seats to force the issue, and election after election showed that despite support, it simply wasn't widespread enough nor strong enough. They would have fizzled out. Cameron just had to stand up to the idiots on his back benches and run the risk of being usurped by Boris. His ego couldn't stand it.

And I didn't say there wasn't disquiet, simply that it is massively overstated.

I distinctly remember being told that our Brexit was just the start, and the others would follow. Well they haven't. Nor do they show signs of doing so. Farage would have people believe we were the leaders of an unstoppable movement, at the forefront of modern European thinking. Instead, we're Billy No Mates, stuck in a corner, with our leaders quietly sobbing at the thought of what will happen.


Brave political leadership would now campaign on the softest possible brexit doing the least damage to our trading position with the 500 million people on our doorstep, and protecting the immigration we desperately need to survive our demographics and build our future wider trading relationships.

So, no chance.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:04 - May 19 with 343 viewslondonlisa2001

Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:00 - May 19 by monmouth

Brave political leadership would now campaign on the softest possible brexit doing the least damage to our trading position with the 500 million people on our doorstep, and protecting the immigration we desperately need to survive our demographics and build our future wider trading relationships.

So, no chance.


Innit.

Makes you despair.
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Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:07 - May 19 with 334 viewsblueytheblue

Tory manifesto - discuss on 16:55 - May 19 by londonlisa2001

There was no need to cut the legs off UKIP. They would never have gained enough seats to force the issue, and election after election showed that despite support, it simply wasn't widespread enough nor strong enough. They would have fizzled out. Cameron just had to stand up to the idiots on his back benches and run the risk of being usurped by Boris. His ego couldn't stand it.

And I didn't say there wasn't disquiet, simply that it is massively overstated.

I distinctly remember being told that our Brexit was just the start, and the others would follow. Well they haven't. Nor do they show signs of doing so. Farage would have people believe we were the leaders of an unstoppable movement, at the forefront of modern European thinking. Instead, we're Billy No Mates, stuck in a corner, with our leaders quietly sobbing at the thought of what will happen.


Disagree re UKIP. Media have always given them disproportionate coverage over say Greens. Had to be dealt with at some point - if the referendum hadn't happened when it did, it would still have happened within a few years.

If Brexit turns out to be a success for Britain, I can well see others leaving. Holland, France aren't two nations you'd necessarily say are the top picks to want to leave. On that score, it's going to be a holding pattern for a good few years. If the EU doesn't address any of it's fundamental problems, chances others will want to leave rise. If it doesn't want to reform, those chances rise.

Poll: Alternate POTY final

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:11 - May 19 with 329 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Any positives coming from this manifesto ?

Anyone ?

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Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:12 - May 19 with 327 viewsexiledclaseboy

Tory manifesto - discuss on 17:00 - May 19 by monmouth

Brave political leadership would now campaign on the softest possible brexit doing the least damage to our trading position with the 500 million people on our doorstep, and protecting the immigration we desperately need to survive our demographics and build our future wider trading relationships.

So, no chance.


The LibDem position on Brexit is clearly the most sensible. Do the negotiations then put the result to the people. Why some see this as undemocratic is beyond me. Last year's vote wasn't decisive and most referendums which could result in such a nation changing constitutional change would normally be subject to some kind of threshold not just a simple majority. The way the referendum was called and conducted and the manner in which the aftermath has been handled are acts of almost treasonous incompetence.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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