| Bosman.... 10:57 - Jul 13 with 1564 views | JethroJack |
....needs shooting.
The start of the end of football, only a matter of time. |  | | |  |
| Bosman.... on 10:58 - Jul 13 with 1549 views | westwalesed |
What on Earth are you on about Sir? |  |
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| Bosman.... on 11:06 - Jul 13 with 1497 views | JackSomething |
Blame the Bosman ruling or the law of unintended consequences, not the man himself. The ruling didn't do Jean-Marc Bosman much good and when you read about the conditions that made him launch his legal action, it's hard to blame him:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/12/jean-marc-bosman-players-rights
Besides, if he hadn't done it, all the crazy money in the game today would be going to the owners. I doubt that we the fans would be any better off. At least football is one of the few professions where the workers actually get the lions share of the profits! |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Bosman.... on 11:06 - Jul 13 with 1498 views | jack247 |
If it's any consolation, I saw a documentary on him not long ago. He was groaning about making future generations of footballers very rich but being a pariah and living on the breadline himself.
In fairness, the way it worked before was a bit nuts | | | |
| Bosman.... on 11:20 - Jul 13 with 1432 views | westwalesed |
My rudimentary knowledge on this is that as soon as a player is out of contract they can leave on a free, I don't see any issue at all.
I know some people have talked about players being "improved" by a club and then they lose out on the value added, but my employers don't gain anything having improved me if I decide to leave when my contract ends? | |
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| Bosman.... on 11:34 - Jul 13 with 1380 views | Darran |
| Bosman.... on 11:20 - Jul 13 by westwalesed |
My rudimentary knowledge on this is that as soon as a player is out of contract they can leave on a free, I don't see any issue at all.
I know some people have talked about players being "improved" by a club and then they lose out on the value added, but my employers don't gain anything having improved me if I decide to leave when my contract ends? |
Nah we'll all agree that football is a different business but players shouldn't be allowed to move for free.
I've been banging on about this Bosman bollox on here for several years by saying that I can't understand why the big clubs in Europe haven't got together to challenge it in some way.
The first example I gave was when Torres went from Liverpool to Chelsea.
Chelsea paid £50million for him and gave him a five year contract a £5million a year.
Yes we all know football is different but there's no way a player should then be allowed to walk away for free at the end of a business paying out £75million.
There's no reason why a panel can't decided a transfer fee somewhere in the middle for a player at the end of his contract.
The players have too much power. |  |
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| Bosman.... on 11:42 - Jul 13 with 1343 views | jack247 |
| Bosman.... on 11:34 - Jul 13 by Darran |
Nah we'll all agree that football is a different business but players shouldn't be allowed to move for free.
I've been banging on about this Bosman bollox on here for several years by saying that I can't understand why the big clubs in Europe haven't got together to challenge it in some way.
The first example I gave was when Torres went from Liverpool to Chelsea.
Chelsea paid £50million for him and gave him a five year contract a £5million a year.
Yes we all know football is different but there's no way a player should then be allowed to walk away for free at the end of a business paying out £75million.
There's no reason why a panel can't decided a transfer fee somewhere in the middle for a player at the end of his contract.
The players have too much power. |
Because he had a 5 year contract at £5m a year. It's not as if Chelsea didn't know he would be able to walk at the end of it.
I don't earn as much as Torres, but my employer has to pay me until I decide to leave, do something massively negligent, or the position becomes redundant, in which case they have to pay me off. If I want to leave, I just give them a months notice and sod off. | | | |
| Bosman.... on 11:46 - Jul 13 with 1323 views | Darran |
| Bosman.... on 11:42 - Jul 13 by jack247 |
Because he had a 5 year contract at £5m a year. It's not as if Chelsea didn't know he would be able to walk at the end of it.
I don't earn as much as Torres, but my employer has to pay me until I decide to leave, do something massively negligent, or the position becomes redundant, in which case they have to pay me off. If I want to leave, I just give them a months notice and sod off. |
I understand that but this business is different and it's being ruined.
The Bosman Ruling should be challenged or at least amended in some way. | |
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| Bosman.... on 11:48 - Jul 13 with 1305 views | JackSomething |
| Bosman.... on 11:46 - Jul 13 by Darran |
I understand that but this business is different and it's being ruined.
The Bosman Ruling should be challenged or at least amended in some way. |
So you'd rather the money go in the owner's pockets then? | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Bosman.... on 11:52 - Jul 13 with 1296 views | jack247 |
| Bosman.... on 11:46 - Jul 13 by Darran |
I understand that but this business is different and it's being ruined.
The Bosman Ruling should be challenged or at least amended in some way. |
It's only different because of the sums involved. Footballers aren't really different to any other contractors, wages aside obviously. Even that's relative, Chelsea have a higher turnover than the average plumbing firm that uses contractors. | | | |
| Bosman.... on 12:09 - Jul 13 with 1231 views | westwalesed |
| Bosman.... on 11:46 - Jul 13 by Darran |
I understand that but this business is different and it's being ruined.
The Bosman Ruling should be challenged or at least amended in some way. |
I don't believe it is different at all - the sums of money are vast but players are simply employees of their clubs, nothing more. | |
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| Bosman.... on 12:10 - Jul 13 with 1230 views | JethroJack |
| Bosman.... on 10:58 - Jul 13 by westwalesed |
What on Earth are you on about Sir? |
Leaving on a free after completion of a contract is as it should be, but players being "enticed" (and allowed) to leave within contract is ruining the game for the vast majority of clubs, apart from the super-rich. Fantastic for the players, but ultimately the game itself will suffer. | | | |
| Bosman.... on 12:10 - Jul 13 with 1225 views | Darran |
| Bosman.... on 11:48 - Jul 13 by JackSomething |
So you'd rather the money go in the owner's pockets then? |
No absolutely not. Look at the tv money currently in the game,the current deal should be enough for a club like Swansea City to pay the players a very good wage and extend the stadium.
The problem is once players and agents know there's a new tv deal there fuçk all much left. | |
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| Bosman.... on 12:11 - Jul 13 with 1220 views | Darran |
| Bosman.... on 11:52 - Jul 13 by jack247 |
It's only different because of the sums involved. Footballers aren't really different to any other contractors, wages aside obviously. Even that's relative, Chelsea have a higher turnover than the average plumbing firm that uses contractors. |
Well everything was ticking over just nicely before Bosman so I don't agree. | |
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| Bosman.... on 12:13 - Jul 13 with 1211 views | JethroJack |
| Bosman.... on 11:06 - Jul 13 by JackSomething |
Blame the Bosman ruling or the law of unintended consequences, not the man himself. The ruling didn't do Jean-Marc Bosman much good and when you read about the conditions that made him launch his legal action, it's hard to blame him:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/12/jean-marc-bosman-players-rights
Besides, if he hadn't done it, all the crazy money in the game today would be going to the owners. I doubt that we the fans would be any better off. At least football is one of the few professions where the workers actually get the lions share of the profits! |
Sorry, I meant the "Ruling". | | | |
| Bosman.... on 12:18 - Jul 13 with 1196 views | westwalesed |
| Bosman.... on 12:10 - Jul 13 by JethroJack |
Leaving on a free after completion of a contract is as it should be, but players being "enticed" (and allowed) to leave within contract is ruining the game for the vast majority of clubs, apart from the super-rich. Fantastic for the players, but ultimately the game itself will suffer. |
Not sure I agree with you on this point either!
Sadly, Football has become a business, whether we like that or not. It's one of the reasons I like International Football so much - it somehow seems purer. Anyway, as Football is a business it should be run on business principles, which includes searching out and hiring the best staff.
Again, if another employer wanted t "tap me up" because they were impressed with my skills, then I should be able to talk with that company and if the offer is agreeable I run down the contract on my current job and move on.
Yes, footballers are multi-bajiollionaires, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same rights and opportunities as we do. | |
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| Bosman.... on 12:18 - Jul 13 with 1196 views | jack247 |
| Bosman.... on 12:11 - Jul 13 by Darran |
Well everything was ticking over just nicely before Bosman so I don't agree. |
Have you read Jacksomething's link above? Pretty much the same as the documentary I saw. His contract expired so they offered him one on quarter of the wages, whilst refusing to let him leave unless their asking price was matched. That's fine if you're Torres on £5m a year. Not so great if you were a lower league player pre-Bosman. | | | |
| Bosman.... on 12:25 - Jul 13 with 1166 views | JethroJack |
| Bosman.... on 12:18 - Jul 13 by westwalesed |
Not sure I agree with you on this point either!
Sadly, Football has become a business, whether we like that or not. It's one of the reasons I like International Football so much - it somehow seems purer. Anyway, as Football is a business it should be run on business principles, which includes searching out and hiring the best staff.
Again, if another employer wanted t "tap me up" because they were impressed with my skills, then I should be able to talk with that company and if the offer is agreeable I run down the contract on my current job and move on.
Yes, footballers are multi-bajiollionaires, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same rights and opportunities as we do. |
That IS my point, that football will ultimately suffer because its now run as a business. Because money rules, it will inevitably lead to FAILED businesses/clubs. Is that something you want to see happening? | | | |
| Bosman.... on 12:25 - Jul 13 with 1164 views | Darran |
| Bosman.... on 12:18 - Jul 13 by jack247 |
Have you read Jacksomething's link above? Pretty much the same as the documentary I saw. His contract expired so they offered him one on quarter of the wages, whilst refusing to let him leave unless their asking price was matched. That's fine if you're Torres on £5m a year. Not so great if you were a lower league player pre-Bosman. |
Well when it gets amended it gets amended in many ways. | |
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| Bosman.... on 13:48 - Jul 13 with 1002 views | westwalesed |
| Bosman.... on 12:25 - Jul 13 by JethroJack |
That IS my point, that football will ultimately suffer because its now run as a business. Because money rules, it will inevitably lead to FAILED businesses/clubs. Is that something you want to see happening? |
No it isn't, but the horse has bolted somewhat, I can't think of a solution which is plausible. The only possible option could be a wage cap or a maximum transfer fee, both of those things run in complete contradiction to business principles. | |
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| Bosman.... on 13:54 - Jul 13 with 987 views | JackSomething |
| Bosman.... on 12:25 - Jul 13 by JethroJack |
That IS my point, that football will ultimately suffer because its now run as a business. Because money rules, it will inevitably lead to FAILED businesses/clubs. Is that something you want to see happening? |
I know what you're saying, but it's not as if clubs didn't go bust/into administration or disappear entirely before the Bosman ruling. | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Bosman.... on 13:54 - Jul 13 with 987 views | longlostjack |
| Bosman.... on 12:18 - Jul 13 by westwalesed |
Not sure I agree with you on this point either!
Sadly, Football has become a business, whether we like that or not. It's one of the reasons I like International Football so much - it somehow seems purer. Anyway, as Football is a business it should be run on business principles, which includes searching out and hiring the best staff.
Again, if another employer wanted t "tap me up" because they were impressed with my skills, then I should be able to talk with that company and if the offer is agreeable I run down the contract on my current job and move on.
Yes, footballers are multi-bajiollionaires, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same rights and opportunities as we do. |
The same rights, opportunities and - OBLIGATIONS ! |  |
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| Bosman.... on 16:38 - Jul 13 with 835 views | Kilkennyjack |
Ovrrall Bosman is a good thing.
You know its there so put things in place to protect any investment made, or buy the free agents. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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