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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch 10:53 - Sep 17 with 36053 viewsDarran

Did any of you hear Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity?


It's a no from me.
[Post edited 17 Sep 2017 17:27]

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:39 - Sep 19 with 3092 viewsItchySphincter

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:27 - Sep 19 by E20Jack

Like many on here, you are lucky you don't remember. It was vile.


Eh, hang on a minute, you've been saying until now that "many' remember it.......?*

*rhetorical question.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:40 - Sep 19 with 3089 viewsDarran

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:37 - Sep 19 by ItchySphincter

Cos it didn't happen, except maybe amongst the crowd Diwit was hanging around with. That's why the rest of the 3,000 of us there can't say we remember it.


Done him Johnny.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:45 - Sep 19 with 3082 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:39 - Sep 19 by ItchySphincter

Eh, hang on a minute, you've been saying until now that "many' remember it.......?*

*rhetorical question.


I domt understand what on earth that means.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:47 - Sep 19 with 3080 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:37 - Sep 19 by ItchySphincter

Cos it didn't happen, except maybe amongst the crowd Diwit was hanging around with. That's why the rest of the 3,000 of us there can't say we remember it.


Yeah we all pm'ed eachother to corroborate our memoirs just for fun.

Little scamps we are see.

I am afraid the evidence disagrees with you. As usual.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:50 - Sep 19 with 3075 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:35 - Sep 19 by Garyjack

Never as vile as a few hundred singing "Who's up Dudleys missus"! If i remember that then i'd certainly remember any racist comments towards Jason Price, which quite frankly i didn't. Ever!


As I said, thankfully you dont share the memories many of us on this thread clearly have.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:50 - Sep 19 with 3073 viewsItchySphincter

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:47 - Sep 19 by E20Jack

Yeah we all pm'ed eachother to corroborate our memoirs just for fun.

Little scamps we are see.

I am afraid the evidence disagrees with you. As usual.


I will resist a ROFL smiley as I know how much you hate it but

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knobhead.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:51 - Sep 19 with 3068 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:50 - Sep 19 by ItchySphincter

I will resist a ROFL smiley as I know how much you hate it but

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knobhead.


So you admit you made a fool out of yourself then, good boy.

Now if only you put your obsession to something useful you may be half handy.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:15 - Sep 20 with 3031 viewsGaryjack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 23:50 - Sep 19 by E20Jack

As I said, thankfully you dont share the memories many of us on this thread clearly have.


No doubt he received abuse, most of our players did then and still do today. But 'Black bastard' and other racsist comments? No way.
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:22 - Sep 20 with 3027 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:15 - Sep 20 by Garyjack

No doubt he received abuse, most of our players did then and still do today. But 'Black bastard' and other racsist comments? No way.


Then like I have said countless times, we all must have PM'ed eachother to corroborate our stories then. Just for a laugh. What Price received was nothing even remotely like "what all our players received back then and still do today". I am amazed I have even read that.

It happened. If you don't wish to believe the accounts, then that is your choosing. But there is no reason for any of these people to make it up. Not hearing something is not proof of anything, hearing something is.

I won't be backing down on this I am afraid.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2017 0:30]

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:39 - Sep 20 with 3008 viewsGaryjack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:22 - Sep 20 by E20Jack

Then like I have said countless times, we all must have PM'ed eachother to corroborate our stories then. Just for a laugh. What Price received was nothing even remotely like "what all our players received back then and still do today". I am amazed I have even read that.

It happened. If you don't wish to believe the accounts, then that is your choosing. But there is no reason for any of these people to make it up. Not hearing something is not proof of anything, hearing something is.

I won't be backing down on this I am afraid.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2017 0:30]


I don't care if you back down on it or not. I'm simply disagreeing with you, How do you feel about the abuse Dudley Lewis received at the same time? Did you hear that? Or wasn't it so important as it didn't involve the colour of his skin.
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:43 - Sep 20 with 3001 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:39 - Sep 20 by Garyjack

I don't care if you back down on it or not. I'm simply disagreeing with you, How do you feel about the abuse Dudley Lewis received at the same time? Did you hear that? Or wasn't it so important as it didn't involve the colour of his skin.


You can't disagree with what people heard when you claim to not have. You can claim you did not hear it, but not what other people did. A very important point there.

I was not a season ticket holder in the 80's, so you could say I didn't hear it.... Note for reference I am not claiming you didn't and others are making it up, just that I didn't. There lies the difference.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 01:07 - Sep 20 with 2966 viewsGaryjack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 00:43 - Sep 20 by E20Jack

You can't disagree with what people heard when you claim to not have. You can claim you did not hear it, but not what other people did. A very important point there.

I was not a season ticket holder in the 80's, so you could say I didn't hear it.... Note for reference I am not claiming you didn't and others are making it up, just that I didn't. There lies the difference.


But i didn't claim that you heard it, i simply asked if you did. If i claimed that you heard it then that would be an accusation that you heard it and are now denying that you heard it, and therefore making you to be lying which i'm not. But simply asking if you heard it or not. If you you weren't a season ticket holder at the time then does that mean you didn't hear it as because you weren't a season ticket holder in the mid 80's but were in the 90's, you didn't go to games at all? So then, did you hear it? Own up!
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 01:18 - Sep 20 with 2954 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 01:07 - Sep 20 by Garyjack

But i didn't claim that you heard it, i simply asked if you did. If i claimed that you heard it then that would be an accusation that you heard it and are now denying that you heard it, and therefore making you to be lying which i'm not. But simply asking if you heard it or not. If you you weren't a season ticket holder at the time then does that mean you didn't hear it as because you weren't a season ticket holder in the mid 80's but were in the 90's, you didn't go to games at all? So then, did you hear it? Own up!


I think you are confusing yourself here.

You said you disagreed with me. I told you that you cannot disagree what someone heard when you openly admit you did not.

You can state you did not hear something, thats fine, but you cannot tell people that they did not hear something. Thats just mental.

This thread is about Jason Price, if you are that outraged regarding the treatment of another player 10 years previous, then feel free to make a thread.

Once people have stated what they heard, there really is nowhere to go from there. Its first hand evidence. Whether you or a gazillion others say they personally didn't, it makes no difference to the point in hand as many state they clearly did. As I have said many times, hearing something is proof of an event occuring, not hearing something is not proof it did not - only that the person in question did not hear it.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2017 9:27]

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:12 - Sep 20 with 2898 viewsEasternJack

E20

Your blind spot here is that you don't seem to notice that most people on this thread who were on the nb during those times DON'T recollect this consistent level of common racist abuse at JJ. Myself included.

Yes, there were racist pockets. But usually at opposition.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:34 - Sep 20 with 2885 viewsProfessor

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:12 - Sep 20 by EasternJack

E20

Your blind spot here is that you don't seem to notice that most people on this thread who were on the nb during those times DON'T recollect this consistent level of common racist abuse at JJ. Myself included.

Yes, there were racist pockets. But usually at opposition.


There were. The only thing close to racist abuse to a Swansea player was some chanting about Steve Mardenbrough. Plenty of abuse for opposition black players well into the 1990s sadly. Perhaps the zenith of this was against WBA and Watford in the 1982/83 season. The combination of racist and homophobic chanting against Watford was funny to 14 year old me but with retrospect absolutely hideous.

Racism-yes. To our own players- not something I ever heard
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:20 - Sep 20 with 2866 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:12 - Sep 20 by EasternJack

E20

Your blind spot here is that you don't seem to notice that most people on this thread who were on the nb during those times DON'T recollect this consistent level of common racist abuse at JJ. Myself included.

Yes, there were racist pockets. But usually at opposition.


There is no blind spot. The people that do remember it on this thread are far more valuable to the event than thise that don't. Most of my mates dont remember the weird bloke that always stood to our right, but there are some that do. Their accounts are far more valuable than the most that dont, they just clearly dont remember or did not notice - to assume he never existed just because they do not recall would be crazy.

How anyone can think they are tuned in to every comment when a thousand strong are shouting at a player is beyond me. I would assume what you hear is largely due to where exactly you were in the North Bank. Can you tell me every sentence shouted by every person at the same time when JJ lost the ball? Clearly not.

There are 4 people on this thread who vividly remember it (and a host of others off this site that do). To suggest they did not, just because you did not is sheer lunacy or extreme revisionist and wishful thinking.

I say again, not hearing something is not proof an event did not occur, it just means you did not hear it. Hearing something is however. He was abused on almost a game by game basis, some of this racist. Now choose not to believe - fine. State you did not personally hear - fine.

But neither of those change the fact that it did and that many as a result heard it.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2017 9:26]

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:22 - Sep 20 with 2860 viewsawayjack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:34 - Sep 20 by Professor

There were. The only thing close to racist abuse to a Swansea player was some chanting about Steve Mardenbrough. Plenty of abuse for opposition black players well into the 1990s sadly. Perhaps the zenith of this was against WBA and Watford in the 1982/83 season. The combination of racist and homophobic chanting against Watford was funny to 14 year old me but with retrospect absolutely hideous.

Racism-yes. To our own players- not something I ever heard


Yup funny also remember the Watford games from late 70's. As a young kid, hearing the racist chants and seeing objects thrown (bananas) were just part of football. It wasn't a small minority chanting. Clearly it's wrong but the extreme tribalism of football in 70s/80's meant anything that wound up the opposition or fans was tolerated. Don't even remember police or stewards attempting to stop it. There again always a few guys throwing golf balls, coins and even darts at opposting fans, and that was largely ignored.
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:33 - Sep 20 with 2846 viewsDarran

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 08:12 - Sep 20 by EasternJack

E20

Your blind spot here is that you don't seem to notice that most people on this thread who were on the nb during those times DON'T recollect this consistent level of common racist abuse at JJ. Myself included.

Yes, there were racist pockets. But usually at opposition.


They DON'T recollect it because it didn't happen.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:35 - Sep 20 with 2840 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:33 - Sep 20 by Darran

They DON'T recollect it because it didn't happen.


Yes we all made it up just for a laugh to trick the bloke sat in the center stand.

What fun we have.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:48 - Sep 20 with 2830 viewsProfessor

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:22 - Sep 20 by awayjack

Yup funny also remember the Watford games from late 70's. As a young kid, hearing the racist chants and seeing objects thrown (bananas) were just part of football. It wasn't a small minority chanting. Clearly it's wrong but the extreme tribalism of football in 70s/80's meant anything that wound up the opposition or fans was tolerated. Don't even remember police or stewards attempting to stop it. There again always a few guys throwing golf balls, coins and even darts at opposting fans, and that was largely ignored.


Indeed.

the 1982 Welsh Cup Final was perhaps the nastiest. Ended up at the front of the NB. Old men were gobbing on the Bennett brothers. Mind you that was probably the least of SWP problems that evening.
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:54 - Sep 20 with 2818 viewsDarran

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:35 - Sep 20 by E20Jack

Yes we all made it up just for a laugh to trick the bloke sat in the center stand.

What fun we have.


We?

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 10:02 - Sep 20 with 2813 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:54 - Sep 20 by Darran

We?


Yes.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 10:52 - Sep 20 with 2779 viewscostalotta

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 01:18 - Sep 20 by E20Jack

I think you are confusing yourself here.

You said you disagreed with me. I told you that you cannot disagree what someone heard when you openly admit you did not.

You can state you did not hear something, thats fine, but you cannot tell people that they did not hear something. Thats just mental.

This thread is about Jason Price, if you are that outraged regarding the treatment of another player 10 years previous, then feel free to make a thread.

Once people have stated what they heard, there really is nowhere to go from there. Its first hand evidence. Whether you or a gazillion others say they personally didn't, it makes no difference to the point in hand as many state they clearly did. As I have said many times, hearing something is proof of an event occuring, not hearing something is not proof it did not - only that the person in question did not hear it.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2017 9:27]


"Once people have stated what they hear"

Not a lawyer but aren't you referring to 'Hearsay' as opposed to evidence?
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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:02 - Sep 20 with 2764 viewsE20Jack

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 10:52 - Sep 20 by costalotta

"Once people have stated what they hear"

Not a lawyer but aren't you referring to 'Hearsay' as opposed to evidence?


No. Hearsay is a rumour. I am talking about first hand primary source accounts.

Broadly speaking, If there was a murder on your street. 5 people said they heard then man scream "I am going to kill you", 10 said they did not hear anything - it is the 5 people that actually did hear it that is valuable to the case in hand, not the ones that didn't.

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Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:14 - Sep 20 with 2752 viewscostalotta

Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:02 - Sep 20 by E20Jack

No. Hearsay is a rumour. I am talking about first hand primary source accounts.

Broadly speaking, If there was a murder on your street. 5 people said they heard then man scream "I am going to kill you", 10 said they did not hear anything - it is the 5 people that actually did hear it that is valuable to the case in hand, not the ones that didn't.


Er....no.

It's nowhere near as simple as you are trying to make out. I cannot comment on the validity of your claim but if, as you say 15 people were around and 5 heard it but 10 didn't, ... they are all witnesses and a jury or credible person would decide who they believe, not e20.

Also, the credibility of each of those witnesses would be brought into question, all 15.

So. If 5 say they did and 10 say they didn't and that is all you had, the chances are the 10 would be believed. These are witness statements and not proof of the event.

Anyway, this thing about any abuse JJ may have received was not heard by me. Not saying it didn't happen as perhaps I was not in earshot of it. Given I was on the NB throughout the 90s I would be in the not heard it camp. Like you said though, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are just far more who didn't hear it which perhaps makes it less believable.

Not only that, for something that far back memories can play tricks on some people. Perhaps you've become a victim of the Mandela effect?
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