| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch 10:53 - Sep 17 with 36119 views | Darran |
Did any of you hear Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity?
It's a no from me. [Post edited 17 Sep 2017 17:27]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 13:08 - Sep 22 with 758 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:26 - Sep 22 by costalotta |
Summary...
No, doesn't appear so although apparently 5 or maybe was it 15 (the NorthBank15 ) people heard someone shout some racist abuse on the north bank amongst all the noise going on at that time, 18-20 odd years ago. Although these apparent accounts were not documented at the time and sources have not been vetted nor characters of those tested (no disrespect to those people intended at all) the 'evidence' is so unreliable the crusader and purveyor of justice Hanson20ODD wants to prove...er, mmmbop, That it actually happened because he heard it, apparently. Quite why he's taken this on I don't personally don't know, neither what the motivation is. As the other 5 or 15 have also said they heard it, this information being 2nd hand in terms of the POV and thus hearsay is being used as the single and most (only) important and compelling piece of 'evidence' in the 'case' that apparently its ,cut and dried'. Oh, it's not a case it's primary account of research in terms historical relevance....or something like that.
According to some on here, maybe friends of Jason, it seems he was unaware and doesn't think so along with many more than 5 or 15 that didn't hear it but don't let that put anyone off. Although the charge is the abuse happened it matters not that Jason didn't hear it. However, it matters massively that there is no other evidence of any note other than what has been mentioned above to support that allegations of the planet swans 1 and the NB15. Shakys point about evidence or lack of, he could have added it cuts both ways, on both sides. So is it time to move on and shut this thread down or plough on? Perhaps a poll as some else suggested? Or we can all think ...
'I wonder how much more mileage is in this thread. Help out a fellow poster, ECB needs as much as he can get to write his book. Go on 20odd.' |
5 out of 15 statements we have heard so far (which was the figures 2 days ago), you are struggling to cope with this. Although that number is changing it seems we have another who also remembers racist comments towards price this morning, we are at around 7 that recall hearing these comments and around 17 that did not. That is extraordinarily high for a events 20 years ago that obviously not all will hear. The fact around 30% of people asked on here remember is stark, I would have expected it to be around 10%.
Hearsay, as you have been taught, is second hand evidence. So it would be like someone saying "my mate said he heard..." First hand witness accounts are talking from personal experiences - so all of which are first hand witness accounts so far, none of which is hearsay (apart from the one person saying that a bloke sat next to his dad used to do it - but we have no information how he came to have this knowledge so have discounted it for now).
So unless anyone can show why these people are lying then the evidence of course will stand, and strong evidence it is at that. It is entirely possible for a group of people to not remember something, entirely improbable that a group of people can remember the same thing that never happened.
What you comtinually fail to understand if if you do not recall something, do not see something or do not hear something all you can do is state that you personally did not see something. I refer you to a bag being snatched on a busy street of 4000 people. If 23 people were interviewed 7 saw it happening and 16 people said they didn't happen to see anything - the second answer does not conflict the first. It is not 17 against 7. And if you had a suspect who was charged - that may well be enough to convict, certainly enough to deduce the situation did indeed happen, proving it was that one individual would be the sticking point - but that is not our aim.
(Welcome to page 19 Mr crybaby tick tock and friends. A wonderful day for a debate dont you think?) [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 13:22]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 13:10 - Sep 22 with 756 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:43 - Sep 22 by dameedna |
I do |
Many do my friend, many do.
We have some obsessed individuals here who will say you don't remember though. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 15:46 - Sep 22 with 687 views | CosmoVinyl |
Felt compelled to post.
As a regular on the North Bank from the late seventies until it closed in 2005 I have never heard regular/constant and racist chanting or abuse against our players. There were sometimes minor instances but it was not anywhere near regular as some to want to make out. There was plenty of good humoured banter but not racism nor racist chanting.
I remember someone attempting to abuse stevie M in the 80s but he was dealt with very quickly by those around and who heard it. It happened towards the top middle area of the north bank. That was enough to stop that becoming any kind of habit.
That being said there was abuse given out to opposition players and some of the stories told here I remember. But our players, no way as described.
I think it's a shame that there are those on here that seem to want push this into the here and now. I know it's a discussion forum but does this feel like someone pushing some kind of weird agenda. Otherwise does it really warrant all these pages?
Stay safe jacks and I hope you all enjoy the weekend football and we get the win we could do with.
STID |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 16:15 - Sep 22 with 660 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 15:46 - Sep 22 by CosmoVinyl |
Felt compelled to post.
As a regular on the North Bank from the late seventies until it closed in 2005 I have never heard regular/constant and racist chanting or abuse against our players. There were sometimes minor instances but it was not anywhere near regular as some to want to make out. There was plenty of good humoured banter but not racism nor racist chanting.
I remember someone attempting to abuse stevie M in the 80s but he was dealt with very quickly by those around and who heard it. It happened towards the top middle area of the north bank. That was enough to stop that becoming any kind of habit.
That being said there was abuse given out to opposition players and some of the stories told here I remember. But our players, no way as described.
I think it's a shame that there are those on here that seem to want push this into the here and now. I know it's a discussion forum but does this feel like someone pushing some kind of weird agenda. Otherwise does it really warrant all these pages?
Stay safe jacks and I hope you all enjoy the weekend football and we get the win we could do with.
STID |
Nobody even once implied there was regular/constant racist chanting.
That is something that the debate seemed to move to after many indeed confirmed the presence of racist abuse. It seemed to move to ''Well okay but it wasn't constant'' - something that has never been claimed.
What was said was there was regular abuse aimed at Jason Price SOME of which was racist, usually in the form of shouting obscenities at the player and not coordinated chanting, that would be a whole other level of sinister.
This has been confirmed by several posters now, with one poster even knowing one of the abusers and said he used to do it every game. Others cannot recall or did not happen to hear... others simply do not want it to be true, understandably. [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 16:18]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 16:50 - Sep 22 with 630 views | CosmoVinyl |
Not that I have desire to discuss it further or get stuck in this thread the word abuse is in the second sentence and Jason was one of our players. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:04 - Sep 22 with 604 views | TNT |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 15:47 - Sep 21 by longlostjack |
The E20 is a motorway in Sweden. I know from experience that it can be boring up there especially in the winter but there's always a 10 pin bowling club not far away where you can actually meet people. |
That E20... does it go on, seemingly, forever? | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:07 - Sep 22 with 597 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 16:58 - Sep 22 by TNT |
You say, 'I don't think I ever did abuse Howard'. So, maybe you did?  |
It depends what you call abuse I guess so it is subjective, I may well have said ''Oh for f*cks sake'' or words to that effect as he leaves his man completely unmarked. You decide. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:12 - Sep 22 with 569 views | Garyjack |
I think we've reached a point now whereby people are posting anything simply to get this thread to the 20 page mark. |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:15 - Sep 22 with 561 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:12 - Sep 22 by E20Jack |
So we now agree then?
And to think all you had to do was read my many posts outlining that it was not constant racist abuse. Selective reading is far more fun though. [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 17:12]
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No we don't and sadly I don't think you'll be here much longer because you're heading the same way as the mast time Adam. Sad but true. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:17 - Sep 22 with 557 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:15 - Sep 22 by Darran |
No we don't and sadly I don't think you'll be here much longer because you're heading the same way as the mast time Adam. Sad but true. |
So the constant thing was not the sticking point then?
It was whether he was racially abused at all? Then again, thank heavens we have first hand witness accounts then, Ryan.
That is also sad, but true. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:23 - Sep 22 with 538 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:12 - Sep 22 by Garyjack |
I think we've reached a point now whereby people are posting anything simply to get this thread to the 20 page mark. |
What idiot would do that? |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:24 - Sep 22 with 536 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:23 - Sep 22 by exiledclaseboy |
What idiot would do that? |
 It has to get to 20 before the match tomorrow! | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:26 - Sep 22 with 529 views | Garyjack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:23 - Sep 22 by exiledclaseboy |
What idiot would do that? |
I have no idea but it's got to stop before it's to late. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:30 - Sep 22 with 525 views | dobjack2 |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 12:59 - Sep 22 by E20Jack |
Nobody has said there was racist chanting (there was but I never said that) chanting was aimed at others such as Sam Hammam. I have always maintained that the racist abuse was single voices shouting various things.
Racial stereotyping is simply assuming a player/person of a certain race acts a certain way due to his/her race. That simple.
There is very much in the way of fact. We have 5 or 6 witness statements including one person who used to regularly go to games with one said racial abuser, he said he coukd even name him. Now unless you think he and the others are lying then that is excellent proof that can be accepted in a the court of law/ historians research - depending on which one confuses you the least. |
You have witnesses that racial abuse was hurled by the odd knuckle Dragger. Well that would surprise nobody.
Those witnesses say that one or more knuckle draggers that they know shouted the abuse because they believed that people of a certain racial background have certain characteristics. Not a surprise as the person is a knuckle dragger.
However you seem to be then making a jump from that position to there being widespread racial abuse with widespread racial stereotyping.
It isn't me that's confused. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:43 - Sep 22 with 505 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:30 - Sep 22 by dobjack2 |
You have witnesses that racial abuse was hurled by the odd knuckle Dragger. Well that would surprise nobody.
Those witnesses say that one or more knuckle draggers that they know shouted the abuse because they believed that people of a certain racial background have certain characteristics. Not a surprise as the person is a knuckle dragger.
However you seem to be then making a jump from that position to there being widespread racial abuse with widespread racial stereotyping.
It isn't me that's confused. |
I certainly believe some of our players are called lazy due to a misconception of physical appearance, no doubt about it in my mind. But that discussion is for another thread and has already been done to death, for me the numbers just dont stack up as sheer coincidence and has been noted by others not just myself.
I am not making a jump from the odd knuckledragger (knuckledraggers were common place on the north bank with coordinated boos for black away players) to widespread racial abuse. I have said many times that Price was racially abused as just part of the constant abuse thrown his way. This is also backed up by the evidence come to light on this thread.
So unless if you don't understand the above then yes it is you that is confused. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:13 - Sep 22 with 475 views | MrSwerve |
Besic |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:14 - Sep 22 with 471 views | MrSwerve |
Nearly there... | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:14 - Sep 22 with 467 views | MrSwerve |
... | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:15 - Sep 22 with 466 views | MrSwerve |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:12 - Sep 22 by Garyjack |
I think we've reached a point now whereby people are posting anything simply to get this thread to the 20 page mark. |
I disagree. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:15 - Sep 22 with 463 views | MrSwerve |
And I thought we were so close. | |
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