| 1917 12:44 - Oct 10 with 6149 views | whoflungdung |
Anniversary of glorious revolution and overthrow of Tsars .
Birth of the socialist state
BBC 2 9pm tonight |  |
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| 1917 on 20:53 - Oct 11 with 2162 views | whoflungdung |
Yes .
I learned a lot | |
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| 1917 on 22:08 - Oct 11 with 2140 views | Kilkennyjack |
Great news.
Its a start i suppose .... |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| 1917 on 22:10 - Oct 11 with 2134 views | Darran |
| 1917 on 22:08 - Oct 11 by Kilkennyjack |
Great news.
Its a start i suppose .... |
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| 1917 on 00:05 - Oct 12 with 2105 views | Professor |
| 1917 on 11:28 - Oct 11 by Lohengrin |
"An extremist could take the view that jihadi action equates to that of the International Brigade."
This is 2017 so an extremist would be anybody who doesn't dress culturally to 'the left' or swallow its myths unthinkingly? You seem to think the parallel is without foundation, Prof? Let's take a quick dart back and forth across the decades and compare the recent fate of the Yazidis with that of the rural Christians in communist occupied Spain. On the treatment meted out to the clergy we have Orwell's account of Priests having their ears and noses cut off by Brigaders, of the Mother of a Priest being held down and choked to death by having a rosary rammed down her throat. From Laurie Lee we have the deliberate destruction of Christian buildings and his own wanton act of urination in a Baptismal Font. A deed, incidentally, which in later years was to cause him much shame, "I was seized by the madness and it has soiled the rest of my life." From the poet Roy Campbell is handed down tales of the mass rape of nuns and parishioners. Again from Orwell we have the accounts of the mass murder of leftist 'heretics' by the International Brigade who would brook no internal opposition to the imposition of Stalin's orthodoxies. ISIS violence against non-aligned Moslem sects is an exact echo.
This isn't make believe, Prof. None of these events are contested. It's what the reds did, it's what ISIS do. This is how your friend's grandfather spent his youth. Those old, rheumy eyes once had the gleam of Marat. Don't be lulled into imagining otherwise.
Different eras, Prof, the same darkness.
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My view, and please bear in mind I am a scientist with little background in history or sociology , is that the International Brigade has good intentions, but the fractured nature of the republicans and in some cases atrocities lead to disillusionment which is pretty clear from contemporary and more recent accounts such as Ken Loach’s ‘Land and Freedom’. Myths are perpetuated such as the current stand off in Catalonia, though of course Madrid was one of the first st areas to suffer with the battle /siege of Madrid. I guess my view of socialism is more the tempered variety of Germany or the Netherlands, more consensual than that of Corbyn. I don’t like excess or selfishness and equally believe people should be rewarded for hard work.
Anyway, the original point was to illustrate Rhondda’s (relatively) strong communist history. A nice idea, but doomed , given we are not programmed to be truly altruistic | | | |
| 1917 on 00:46 - Oct 12 with 2093 views | WarwickHunt |
| 1917 on 13:56 - Oct 10 by trampie |
Heard something the other day, Corbyn would not be on the left of the Labour party in the 1960s. |
Twát. |  | | |
| 1917 on 07:30 - Oct 12 with 2051 views | waynekerr55 |
Where did Tramps hear that? Is Corbyn another red Tory? |  |
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| 1917 on 08:00 - Oct 12 with 2024 views | Lohengrin |
| 1917 on 07:30 - Oct 12 by waynekerr55 |
Where did Tramps hear that? Is Corbyn another red Tory? |
If you didn't know who he was , Wayne, going off the montage you posted up people would think he worked for Billy Butlin.  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| 1917 on 08:13 - Oct 12 with 2017 views | trampie |
| 1917 on 07:30 - Oct 12 by waynekerr55 |
Where did Tramps hear that? Is Corbyn another red Tory? |
I even seen it mentioned recently on a political blog that is often mentioned on this site as well as hearing it said.
Corbyn is a red Tory, why else would he be in NuLabour for decades with all its capitalist right wing policies, Tony Blair was a bigger Tory than Mrs Thatcher mun, Corbyn is also a dyed in the wool unionist.
If Corbyn was on the left he would have had no part in the Labour party of the last 3 decades or so. |  |
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| 1917 on 08:46 - Oct 12 with 2003 views | whoflungdung |
Not a leftie ? In the days of Wilson,Callaghan,George Brown ? ...Tony Crosland and Barb Castle would be right wing if under Corbyn s wing today
Just incredible stuff .
You really never know with people
Killy now needs to step back and reflect | |
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| 1917 on 09:05 - Oct 12 with 2000 views | Kerouac |
| 1917 on 07:30 - Oct 12 by waynekerr55 |
Where did Tramps hear that? Is Corbyn another red Tory? |
The 'Red Tories' under the beds are EVERYWHERE. |  |
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| 1917 on 09:17 - Oct 12 with 1993 views | Lohengrin |
| 1917 on 09:05 - Oct 12 by Kerouac |
The 'Red Tories' under the beds are EVERYWHERE. |
It's interesting that he keeps using the term as a pejorative when if he stopped for a minute and actually thought about it he'd maybe realise that is exactly the way most people on these islands think quite naturally, the non-partisan, non-aligned folk that is.
If there is a 'working class' voice then it tends, in my estimation, to speak in terms of a mild sort of social conservatism coupled with a resentment of the overbearing state. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| 1917 on 09:23 - Oct 12 with 1991 views | Kerouac |
| 1917 on 09:17 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin |
It's interesting that he keeps using the term as a pejorative when if he stopped for a minute and actually thought about it he'd maybe realise that is exactly the way most people on these islands think quite naturally, the non-partisan, non-aligned folk that is.
If there is a 'working class' voice then it tends, in my estimation, to speak in terms of a mild sort of social conservatism coupled with a resentment of the overbearing state. |
This is why the idea that Corbyn can win a General Election is all hot air and wishful thinking by the Socialists who never grew up in the media...The Labour Party do not understand the working class anymore, they certainly don't represent their interests and by the looks of it aren't planning on coming back and dealing with the reality anytime soon.
Politics is simple. You take people with you and change things at a gradual pace.
If you don't, and are determined to have a battle with the general populace...YOU LOSE.
This version of the Labour Party is possibly the biggest collection of losers ever amassed anywhere. | |
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| 1917 on 09:50 - Oct 12 with 1978 views | whoflungdung |
K
I think he can .Ive spoken to several " middle class" people who voted Jez
The labour campaign was brilliant ,worthy of the SED at its peak, and the supine stupidity of this cretinous crew of conservatives has made this evil bullshitter seem electable ,normal even.
We re still obsessed with class .Naked hatred of success and wealth creators, just the people we need to step up and start new businesses to employ people.
We face massive tax hikes and borrowing on epic scale with businesses flocking out of a Corbyn administration.
Make no mistake. We have huge problems with nobody at all capable of stewarding our ship of fools | |
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| 1917 on 09:52 - Oct 12 with 1978 views | WarwickHunt |
| 1917 on 08:00 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin |
If you didn't know who he was , Wayne, going off the montage you posted up people would think he worked for Billy Butlin. |
A Tory Redcoat. | | | |
| 1917 on 10:03 - Oct 12 with 1974 views | whoflungdung |
We there not Bluecoats at Pontins,not that we would have gone to such a Plebhole | |
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| 1917 on 15:24 - Oct 12 with 1936 views | Lohengrin |
| 1917 on 00:05 - Oct 12 by Professor |
My view, and please bear in mind I am a scientist with little background in history or sociology , is that the International Brigade has good intentions, but the fractured nature of the republicans and in some cases atrocities lead to disillusionment which is pretty clear from contemporary and more recent accounts such as Ken Loach’s ‘Land and Freedom’. Myths are perpetuated such as the current stand off in Catalonia, though of course Madrid was one of the first st areas to suffer with the battle /siege of Madrid. I guess my view of socialism is more the tempered variety of Germany or the Netherlands, more consensual than that of Corbyn. I don’t like excess or selfishness and equally believe people should be rewarded for hard work.
Anyway, the original point was to illustrate Rhondda’s (relatively) strong communist history. A nice idea, but doomed , given we are not programmed to be truly altruistic |
"My view.... is that the International Brigade had good intentions."
History not your strong suit? Fair enough, but I can't go without pointing out to you that the International Brigades were Stalin's Foreign Legion. Their intentions were very far from good, they were seeking to impose a barbaric, oriental despotism on Europe. The same lunacy in the years preceding the Spanish Revolt that had led to the deaths of 4.5 million people in the Ukraine, at the most conservative estimate, and right smack in the period of The Great Terror which led to the deaths of some 20 million, that figure from the NKVD/KGB archives.
I could go on but there's no real need. "The truth", as Augustine said "is like a lion. Let it loose it will defend itself." | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| 1917 on 15:33 - Oct 12 with 1926 views | trampie |
Rhondda voted for devolution in 97 and it's first AM was Plaid and it's current AM is Plaid, mixed with its historical communist tendancies Rhondda is seen as politically radical, but is it radical or is it called that because the likes of some Swansea and Cardiff people often don't like how it votes. | |
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| 1917 on 15:59 - Oct 12 with 1916 views | Lohengrin |
| 1917 on 15:33 - Oct 12 by trampie |
Rhondda voted for devolution in 97 and it's first AM was Plaid and it's current AM is Plaid, mixed with its historical communist tendancies Rhondda is seen as politically radical, but is it radical or is it called that because the likes of some Swansea and Cardiff people often don't like how it votes. |
It's like Michael Bentine's Potty Time on here some afternoons. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| 1917 on 16:15 - Oct 12 with 1907 views | trampie |
Just checking out the pics of the hug fest between Nicola and Leanne up in Glasgow for the SNP conference, I think those two really like each other.
Glasgow was the other area in the UK along with the Rhondda known for its strong communist ties. | |
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| 1917 on 16:32 - Oct 12 with 1895 views | waynekerr55 |
| 1917 on 16:15 - Oct 12 by trampie |
Just checking out the pics of the hug fest between Nicola and Leanne up in Glasgow for the SNP conference, I think those two really like each other.
Glasgow was the other area in the UK along with the Rhondda known for its strong communist ties. |
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| 1917 on 16:47 - Oct 12 with 1887 views | Lohengrin |
| 1917 on 16:15 - Oct 12 by trampie |
Just checking out the pics of the hug fest between Nicola and Leanne up in Glasgow for the SNP conference, I think those two really like each other.
Glasgow was the other area in the UK along with the Rhondda known for its strong communist ties. |
The SNP have no "communist ties" to say the least, Tramp. The very least! 
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| 1917 on 16:50 - Oct 12 with 1883 views | exiledclaseboy |
I just watched the docudrama thing. It was ok, nothing earth shatteringly new really. Some of the scenery chewing by the actor playing Vladimir Ilyich was quite amusing I thought.
Right, I’m off to form me a soviet of my very own. The peasants need bread after all. |  |
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| 1917 on 16:52 - Oct 12 with 1882 views | Professor |
| 1917 on 15:24 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin |
"My view.... is that the International Brigade had good intentions."
History not your strong suit? Fair enough, but I can't go without pointing out to you that the International Brigades were Stalin's Foreign Legion. Their intentions were very far from good, they were seeking to impose a barbaric, oriental despotism on Europe. The same lunacy in the years preceding the Spanish Revolt that had led to the deaths of 4.5 million people in the Ukraine, at the most conservative estimate, and right smack in the period of The Great Terror which led to the deaths of some 20 million, that figure from the NKVD/KGB archives.
I could go on but there's no real need. "The truth", as Augustine said "is like a lion. Let it loose it will defend itself." |
The consequence of the Spanish civil was was a 40 year rule by Franco whose insurrection was supported by Hitler and German National Socialism (and indeed Italian Fascisits). The Republican side we’re supported by Stalin. Not so much difference between Adolf and Joe
In my mind. As you say both killed millions. Not a fan of either. Not a student of history. Did not even take it at ‘O’ level but polite and educated debate is always welcome. We just don’t get smuch on microbiology or immunology | | | |
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