| Is football institutionally racist ? 22:46 - Oct 20 with 6337 views | Loyal |
And what does that mean to you ? |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 22:52 - Oct 20 with 4119 views | Lohengrin |
If that's the claim then the grizzling, right-on left has completely run out of things to whine/make money over and about.
What do you make of their nonsense? Are you getting more than a bit tired of it by now? |  |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 23:45 - Oct 20 with 4091 views | Highjack |
If there's one major industry in the world where people can rise to the top based on talent regardless of race, colour, ethnicity, sexuality, religion it's football. |  |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 00:21 - Oct 21 with 4067 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 23:45 - Oct 20 by Highjack |
If there's one major industry in the world where people can rise to the top based on talent regardless of race, colour, ethnicity, sexuality, religion it's football. |
Football isn't just about players on a pitch. That just represents one generation of people.
Looking around the top leagues in Europe. I don't see many black managers at all, it seems strangely disproportionate to the amount of black players in the respective leagues (33% of players in the Premier league are black/asian/minority background alone). You would assume the ratio would continue from player level to management level.
However, that just isn't the case. The reasons for that could be debated for many pages, but thought I would add some balance to the topic and extend "football" beyond just the players on the pitch but to the broad umbrella of professions it covers.
We can pretend race is not an issue anymore in football, but for me that is just naive. A hell of a lot better than what it was, but not there yet. I would suggest a few more generations yet before it is eradicated at all levels of the game.
[Post edited 21 Oct 2017 0:33]
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 00:53 - Oct 21 with 4051 views | Garyjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 00:21 - Oct 21 by E20Jack |
Football isn't just about players on a pitch. That just represents one generation of people.
Looking around the top leagues in Europe. I don't see many black managers at all, it seems strangely disproportionate to the amount of black players in the respective leagues (33% of players in the Premier league are black/asian/minority background alone). You would assume the ratio would continue from player level to management level.
However, that just isn't the case. The reasons for that could be debated for many pages, but thought I would add some balance to the topic and extend "football" beyond just the players on the pitch but to the broad umbrella of professions it covers.
We can pretend race is not an issue anymore in football, but for me that is just naive. A hell of a lot better than what it was, but not there yet. I would suggest a few more generations yet before it is eradicated at all levels of the game.
[Post edited 21 Oct 2017 0:33]
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All black people smoke dope. It's nothing to do with racism, it's part of their religion as Rastafarians. It's ok when they're actually playing, but it's completely unacceptable to see a black premier league manager bonging in the technical area during games. You wouldn't see white managers like Mourinho or Klopp doing it (though it may help with Wengers athritis). |  | | |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 09:09 - Oct 21 with 3979 views | swanjackal |
When you look at managers and their ethnicity, then it is hard to actually argue there is institutional racism in the UK. I will only use the black statistic as I am assuming that is what is the reason behind this, it's reported that only 4% of new coaches come from a black background, hence the pool of potential qualified managers is much lower. 3 of 92 have black managers (3.3%) only slightly below the percentage of qualified coaches available, one single appointment would put that group slightly above the qualified percentage of coaches (4.4%). Can't argue about other countries, no idea what their coaching acceptance is.
I can't argue either way about the boardroom, as each one are their own entity .
I think the problem lies with ,why do those of non white ethnicity not choose to enter the coaching side of the game at the same rate as playing participation of the game, as both are choices made by the individual. As far as I'm aware, and I have done some levels of coaching, there were only two things that restricted participation..... paying for the courses (and prior qualifications for the stage you're at) and being able to attend.
The playing side you can't argue institutional racism, there are no barriers to pay, playing time, recruitment etc.
Are there racist individuals in the game? No doubt, and some are possibly in positions of power, and although unpleasant, this does not in any way indicate institutional racism. [Post edited 21 Oct 2017 9:14]
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 09:31 - Oct 21 with 3955 views | whoflungdung |
Seems many sports are predominantly black.
Like athletics
Odd |  |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:26 - Oct 21 with 3922 views | Loyal |
Thing is if it is and there is real concern for me the likes of John Barnes moaning about the fact he has been ignored ( after so many managerial failures ) set the whole thing backwards. He was ignored because he was shit, a shit manager with a shit attitude it seems.
It's easy to make references to institutional racism, what is needed is tangible proof not a few coaches doing Jim Davidson black man accents. This isn't institutional it's individual.
Institutional is a deep rooted visible or non visible attitude that reflects a lack of opportunity for black or ethnic minorities. Similar to the Met Police attitude when investigating the death of Steven Lawrence. Although some of that I saw was a bit agenda driven to appease certain minoroties and groups.
If in between the talent and exposure there is a real drive to ignore players of colour or ethnic minorities I want to see the proof, I want to see legislation or instances that reflect this, I want to see tangible evidence. Not a few blokes who think they are being clever. And just because we don't see that many black managers or coaches ( Swansea have one obvious coach who is black ) in football that isn't enough proof. The answers that are needed are why ? Not ' Oh look there are not enough black coaches it must be a problem '
Real tangible and obvious proof is needed, people who are not racist who do not care are getting a bit pissed off with all this, me ? I'm just keen to see these allegations backed up properly with actual instances that prove 'institutional' and not 'individual' racism. Then more people will take it seriously. [Post edited 21 Oct 2017 10:27]
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| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:27 - Oct 21 with 3915 views | whoflungdung |
Met JBseveral times .cracking bloke
As a manager,amongst the worst
Great player though | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:07 - Oct 21 with 3865 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 09:31 - Oct 21 by whoflungdung |
Seems many sports are predominantly black.
Like athletics
Odd |
It's not realy odd. Its genetics. Same as why you dont see many black swimmers.
Black people have different muscle composition to caucasians, they have a higher % of fast twitch fibres meaning they are more explosive, hence why they excel on the track. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:36 - Oct 21 with 3847 views | Highjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:07 - Oct 21 by E20Jack |
It's not realy odd. Its genetics. Same as why you dont see many black swimmers.
Black people have different muscle composition to caucasians, they have a higher % of fast twitch fibres meaning they are more explosive, hence why they excel on the track. |
The only difference genetically between a white person and a black person is the bit that controls the amount of melanin produced by the skin. Any higher % of fast twitch fibres is nothing to do with the fact they are black.
The reason there are very few black swimmers is nothing to do with their genetics either. It's the same reason there are very few black skiiers, or tennis players, or hockey players, or black bobsleigh teams. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:05 - Oct 21 with 3821 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:36 - Oct 21 by Highjack |
The only difference genetically between a white person and a black person is the bit that controls the amount of melanin produced by the skin. Any higher % of fast twitch fibres is nothing to do with the fact they are black.
The reason there are very few black swimmers is nothing to do with their genetics either. It's the same reason there are very few black skiiers, or tennis players, or hockey players, or black bobsleigh teams. |
Thats not true at all. Muscle composition has everything to do with race, and it holds a lot of people back that want to do certain sports and thrusts others into it where they normally would prefer another.
You are talking about national/geographic specific sports and possibly funding with your examples (even though there are a host of black tennis players, I could name 20 just off the top of my head). What I a, discussing in relation to Perch's comments regarding black dominance on the track - that is heavily correlated to twich fibres - which has very much to do with race.
It is not just muscle composition of course, but indeed bone density - bone density is largely attributed to the fact there are very few black swimmers. [Post edited 21 Oct 2017 13:10]
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:15 - Oct 21 with 3812 views | Highjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:05 - Oct 21 by E20Jack |
Thats not true at all. Muscle composition has everything to do with race, and it holds a lot of people back that want to do certain sports and thrusts others into it where they normally would prefer another.
You are talking about national/geographic specific sports and possibly funding with your examples (even though there are a host of black tennis players, I could name 20 just off the top of my head). What I a, discussing in relation to Perch's comments regarding black dominance on the track - that is heavily correlated to twich fibres - which has very much to do with race.
It is not just muscle composition of course, but indeed bone density - bone density is largely attributed to the fact there are very few black swimmers. [Post edited 21 Oct 2017 13:10]
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So if as you say black people are genetically born with a higher percentage of fast twitch fibres, why are the Kenyans and Ethiopians so dominant at the long distance running which relies more on slow twitch fibres? You can't have it both ways. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:16 - Oct 21 with 3807 views | Highjack |
Bone density? Now I know you're on a wind up.  | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:21 - Oct 21 with 3794 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:15 - Oct 21 by Highjack |
So if as you say black people are genetically born with a higher percentage of fast twitch fibres, why are the Kenyans and Ethiopians so dominant at the long distance running which relies more on slow twitch fibres? You can't have it both ways. |
I wouldn't be able to tell you until I researched it,mI know very little about long distance running, the origins of it or the geographical importance placed upon it.
However regarding twitch fibre composition in black and white athletes (and people in general) is not really debatable. Its proven. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:58 - Oct 21 with 3762 views | Highjack |
All you are doing is perpetuating the same old lazy racial stereotypes.
There are very few black chess grandmasters. This is because black people's brains are denser.
Rubbish. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 16:13 - Oct 21 with 3724 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 13:58 - Oct 21 by Highjack |
All you are doing is perpetuating the same old lazy racial stereotypes.
There are very few black chess grandmasters. This is because black people's brains are denser.
Rubbish. |
If you wish to call science ''lazy'' then feel free. It has nothing to do with stereotypes. Who on earth says there is a stereotype regarding different bone and muscle composition between white and black athletes?
I guess it is more of a case that you were unaware of these facts and don't wish to back down, so attempting to save face? Which is fair enough, but not conducive to a decent debate.
Your chess sentence is just ridiculous. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 21:41 - Oct 21 with 3645 views | Highjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 16:13 - Oct 21 by E20Jack |
If you wish to call science ''lazy'' then feel free. It has nothing to do with stereotypes. Who on earth says there is a stereotype regarding different bone and muscle composition between white and black athletes?
I guess it is more of a case that you were unaware of these facts and don't wish to back down, so attempting to save face? Which is fair enough, but not conducive to a decent debate.
Your chess sentence is just ridiculous. |
The chess thing was just highlighting how ridiculous your logic is.
I will ask again. If all black people are genetically predispositioned to have a high percentage of fast twitch fibres which helps with sprinting, then why are black Kenyans and Ethiopians so dominant at the long distance races where slow twitch fibres are advantageous?
Surely they'd be at a disadvantage genetically, especially with their dense, heavy bones. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 21:54 - Oct 21 with 3633 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 21:41 - Oct 21 by Highjack |
The chess thing was just highlighting how ridiculous your logic is.
I will ask again. If all black people are genetically predispositioned to have a high percentage of fast twitch fibres which helps with sprinting, then why are black Kenyans and Ethiopians so dominant at the long distance races where slow twitch fibres are advantageous?
Surely they'd be at a disadvantage genetically, especially with their dense, heavy bones. |
As much as I would love to take credit for the discovery of different muscle and bone compositions between races of humans, I couldn't possibly. To say it is my logic, is like saying gravity is my logic as it is a notion I support as scientifically proven.
My answer to your question is the same now as it was when you first asked it. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 08:25 - Oct 22 with 3557 views | Meraki |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:36 - Oct 21 by Highjack |
The only difference genetically between a white person and a black person is the bit that controls the amount of melanin produced by the skin. Any higher % of fast twitch fibres is nothing to do with the fact they are black.
The reason there are very few black swimmers is nothing to do with their genetics either. It's the same reason there are very few black skiiers, or tennis players, or hockey players, or black bobsleigh teams. |
Thick as shit. | | | |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 09:45 - Oct 22 with 3515 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 08:25 - Oct 22 by Meraki |
Thick as shit. |
It was a stunning statement, I will give him that.
There are far more differences than muscle and bone composition too. Testosterone levels and lipid transferance and storage is another. Its basic evolution. Somewhere down the line a black person will have long term ties to certain countries. Even if they are born in Hackney and their parents were born in Hackney and their Grandparents were born in Hackney - their genetic coding is still marked to be a certain way to adapt to an environment that their race historically has been subject to. To think everyone is genetically the same regardless of geographical herritage is just utter lunacy.
If a Giraffe is born in a Bonsai tree field... It will still get born with a long neck. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:15 - Oct 22 with 3500 views | Highjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 08:25 - Oct 22 by Meraki |
Thick as shit. |
Yes you are. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:45 - Oct 22 with 3485 views | Highjack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 21:54 - Oct 21 by E20Jack |
As much as I would love to take credit for the discovery of different muscle and bone compositions between races of humans, I couldn't possibly. To say it is my logic, is like saying gravity is my logic as it is a notion I support as scientifically proven.
My answer to your question is the same now as it was when you first asked it. |
So you can't answer it then?
You have stated there is a definitive link between being black and having a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres which would give an advantage in explosive athletic activity such as sprinting.
Yet black athletes still dominate long distance running endurance events in which a high percentage of fast twitch fibres would be as much of a hindrance as having denser bones in swimming. There have been black swimmers who have won Olympic gold medals and more and more black swimmers are making it to the highest level.
The "science" you have put forward does not correlate with observable information we can see in the world around us.
I guess my point through all this is that these elite athletes at the peak of their respective sports, black or white have got to where they are for reasons other than their race, namely hard work, good coaching, determination, culture (sprinting is national sport in Jamaica) etc, and it's juvenile to suggest otherwise. Genetics and ancestry are important of course they are but skin colour is not. Basketball is dominated by black athletes because it's a huge part of inner city black culture. New Zealanders dominate rugby because they are absolutely in love with it as a nation and everyone plays it from a young age.
If you approached usain bolt and told him that he has a physical advantage over everyone else because he's black he would laugh in your face. | |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 11:08 - Oct 22 with 3471 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:45 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
So you can't answer it then?
You have stated there is a definitive link between being black and having a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres which would give an advantage in explosive athletic activity such as sprinting.
Yet black athletes still dominate long distance running endurance events in which a high percentage of fast twitch fibres would be as much of a hindrance as having denser bones in swimming. There have been black swimmers who have won Olympic gold medals and more and more black swimmers are making it to the highest level.
The "science" you have put forward does not correlate with observable information we can see in the world around us.
I guess my point through all this is that these elite athletes at the peak of their respective sports, black or white have got to where they are for reasons other than their race, namely hard work, good coaching, determination, culture (sprinting is national sport in Jamaica) etc, and it's juvenile to suggest otherwise. Genetics and ancestry are important of course they are but skin colour is not. Basketball is dominated by black athletes because it's a huge part of inner city black culture. New Zealanders dominate rugby because they are absolutely in love with it as a nation and everyone plays it from a young age.
If you approached usain bolt and told him that he has a physical advantage over everyone else because he's black he would laugh in your face. |
He’d probably say the words “nine point five eight seconds” while doing it. |  |
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| Is football institutionally racist ? on 12:15 - Oct 22 with 3446 views | E20Jack |
| Is football institutionally racist ? on 10:45 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
So you can't answer it then?
You have stated there is a definitive link between being black and having a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres which would give an advantage in explosive athletic activity such as sprinting.
Yet black athletes still dominate long distance running endurance events in which a high percentage of fast twitch fibres would be as much of a hindrance as having denser bones in swimming. There have been black swimmers who have won Olympic gold medals and more and more black swimmers are making it to the highest level.
The "science" you have put forward does not correlate with observable information we can see in the world around us.
I guess my point through all this is that these elite athletes at the peak of their respective sports, black or white have got to where they are for reasons other than their race, namely hard work, good coaching, determination, culture (sprinting is national sport in Jamaica) etc, and it's juvenile to suggest otherwise. Genetics and ancestry are important of course they are but skin colour is not. Basketball is dominated by black athletes because it's a huge part of inner city black culture. New Zealanders dominate rugby because they are absolutely in love with it as a nation and everyone plays it from a young age.
If you approached usain bolt and told him that he has a physical advantage over everyone else because he's black he would laugh in your face. |
There could be many reasons for their dominance. As I have told you, I know very little about long distance running or its herritage or geographical importance placed on it. In short I am not qualified to give you an answer, I can guess but that won't help anyone.
What you are essentially saying is going up to Isaac Newton in 1680, and saying "if gravity exists then how come helium balloons float". That doesn't dismiss the proven notion of gravity, but instead leads to an exploration of the reasons why helium seems to defy the science (of course it doesn't, but those that had not seen a helium balloon before would not know before researching into it).
There can be many reasons why people from East Africa tend to dominate long distance events. You seem to think that muscle composition and bone mass trumps all in someones physiological make up? I have already touched upon the fact that black people generally tend to have a different lipid transference. I am not a scientist so could not tell you if this also translated to more efficient use of it, but there are many possible reasons.
I don't think anybody has ever said Usain Bolt is at the top of his sport because he is black. All of the things you mentioned (hard work, determination, perseverance, sacrifice) all come into it. But at the end of the day, I could have trained side by side with Bolt every day of his life, eat what he eat, slept when he slept, trained when he trained... Yet I still would be nowhere near as fast as him, that is simply due to genetics. To suggest otherwise is utterly ludicrous.
Usain Bolt could laugh at me all he likes, he is an athlete not an academic. I would simply point him to the very well documented proofed scientific research that categorically and unequivocally prove that he (and you) are wrong. It would be the easiest come back since the great Leon returned from Sheffield. [Post edited 22 Oct 2017 12:25]
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