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Catalonia declares independence. 14:44 - Oct 27 with 13369 viewsLohengrin

Here we go then, buckle up...

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Catalonia declares independence. on 16:53 - Oct 30 with 889 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 16:39 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

There are no OECD countries with a tax take in excess of 50% of GDP.

If you are talking individual taxation (not including VAT for example), then Denmark has a top marginal personal tax rate of 51.5%, Sweden 59%, Norway 46%, Finland 39.5% and the U.K. 47%.

If you want to talk about fair taxation, how about finding out something about it first?

As I suspected, you are simply preaching the politics of envy.

Start focusing on stuff that makes a difference Trampie, rather than spouting vacuous platitudes. Same goes for Leanne Wood, who is an idiot.

Firstly, start collecting tax properly. Stop avoidance. The obscenely wealthy as you call them, just don't pay, and they won't pay if it's increased. Clamp down on that. Secondly don't increase tax for a political point if it means less money is collected. It's the money that's important, not point scoring.

Thirdly, recognise that Britain (and Wales), will become wealthier for everyone if businesses are set up and allowed to flourish. Wales doesn't need more handouts, it needs more investment, more companies creating more jobs, and better jobs. The sound bites from Leanne (and people like you), put businesses off coming to Wales.
[Post edited 30 Oct 2017 16:40]


They will pay, even if their assets are seized and they end up in a Welsh gulag.
I am not envious, I would be seen as a have and not a have not, it's beyond your comprehension that somebody would think society as a whole should pay more tax particularly if they themselves would be expected to pay more.
Some patriots do what is best for their country and not necessarily what is best for themselves, greed is a terrible thing Lisa, money being the root of all evil.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 17:20 - Oct 30 with 860 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 16:53 - Oct 30 by trampie

They will pay, even if their assets are seized and they end up in a Welsh gulag.
I am not envious, I would be seen as a have and not a have not, it's beyond your comprehension that somebody would think society as a whole should pay more tax particularly if they themselves would be expected to pay more.
Some patriots do what is best for their country and not necessarily what is best for themselves, greed is a terrible thing Lisa, money being the root of all evil.


Again platitudes. You're full of crap Trampie. And you try to deflect from the difficulties in the actual job of raising money to spend on society by attempting to make out that someone else is being greedy.

I don't give a toss whether you are a have or a have not - it makes no difference to me. What matters to me is that you are unable to answer a very simple question.

Leanne Wood is not attempting to do the best for her country, she is attempting to do the best for the people she thinks are the most likely to vote for her. And in her eyes, the ones who are most likely to vote for her are ones that don't understand enough about basic economics to know that her plans simply don't work but just think that someone else (probably English) should pay more tax.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 17:38 - Oct 30 with 840 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 17:20 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

Again platitudes. You're full of crap Trampie. And you try to deflect from the difficulties in the actual job of raising money to spend on society by attempting to make out that someone else is being greedy.

I don't give a toss whether you are a have or a have not - it makes no difference to me. What matters to me is that you are unable to answer a very simple question.

Leanne Wood is not attempting to do the best for her country, she is attempting to do the best for the people she thinks are the most likely to vote for her. And in her eyes, the ones who are most likely to vote for her are ones that don't understand enough about basic economics to know that her plans simply don't work but just think that someone else (probably English) should pay more tax.


You accuse others of not understanding basic economics and you vote Lib-Dem ?, they broke their pledge to the English not to increase University fees and voted for the bedroom tax.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

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Catalonia declares independence. on 17:46 - Oct 30 with 832 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 17:38 - Oct 30 by trampie

You accuse others of not understanding basic economics and you vote Lib-Dem ?, they broke their pledge to the English not to increase University fees and voted for the bedroom tax.


You are just deflecting again.

it may work for you when Leanne does it Trampie, but it doesn't wash with me,

Your answers on this thread show clearly that you don't understand the question let alone have any answers yourself or know what Plaid's answers are. And that's why Plaid are a joke under this leadership, because I suspect that Leanne doesn't understand the basic question either. Perhaps if she had widened her education outside a 5 mile radius from her home she may have done.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 17:49 - Oct 30 with 828 viewsHighjack

It probably doesn't help that the majority of plaid Cymru appear to be permanently pissed either.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

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Catalonia declares independence. on 18:01 - Oct 30 with 809 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 17:46 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

You are just deflecting again.

it may work for you when Leanne does it Trampie, but it doesn't wash with me,

Your answers on this thread show clearly that you don't understand the question let alone have any answers yourself or know what Plaid's answers are. And that's why Plaid are a joke under this leadership, because I suspect that Leanne doesn't understand the basic question either. Perhaps if she had widened her education outside a 5 mile radius from her home she may have done.


Oh no no no, you are deflecting, you were having a go when I was sticking to the topic, you have spoken about political parties in this context and when I point out to you the Lib-Dems track record on basic economics as I seem to recall you saying you voted for them you get all defensive and no longer want to talk about political parties.
Why did you vote for an economically inept party that has a car crash record on basic economics as far as the electorate was concerned ?, I can only conclude based on what you say and who you voted for at the time you voted for them that your understanding of basic economics is not up to scratch.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

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Catalonia declares independence. on 18:18 - Oct 30 with 800 viewspikeypaul

Catalonia declares independence. on 17:20 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

Again platitudes. You're full of crap Trampie. And you try to deflect from the difficulties in the actual job of raising money to spend on society by attempting to make out that someone else is being greedy.

I don't give a toss whether you are a have or a have not - it makes no difference to me. What matters to me is that you are unable to answer a very simple question.

Leanne Wood is not attempting to do the best for her country, she is attempting to do the best for the people she thinks are the most likely to vote for her. And in her eyes, the ones who are most likely to vote for her are ones that don't understand enough about basic economics to know that her plans simply don't work but just think that someone else (probably English) should pay more tax.


100% correct.

Leanne knows she can only attract the hateful and jealous in Welsh society.

Not to worry Trampie there should be reforms in your Universal credit come budget day
something the likes of Lisa pays for.

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Catalonia declares independence. on 18:33 - Oct 30 with 790 viewswhoflungdung

So she votes for whoever


Free country

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:10 - Oct 30 with 772 viewstrampie

Lisa not defending who she voted for then.....
.hmm....... figures i suppose as it's indefensible.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:14 - Oct 30 with 766 viewstrampie

I wonder if people in the money game pay as much taxes as the next man earning similar amounts etc ?.....hmm.... people in the trade know all the tricks I'm often told.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:17 - Oct 30 with 761 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 18:01 - Oct 30 by trampie

Oh no no no, you are deflecting, you were having a go when I was sticking to the topic, you have spoken about political parties in this context and when I point out to you the Lib-Dems track record on basic economics as I seem to recall you saying you voted for them you get all defensive and no longer want to talk about political parties.
Why did you vote for an economically inept party that has a car crash record on basic economics as far as the electorate was concerned ?, I can only conclude based on what you say and who you voted for at the time you voted for them that your understanding of basic economics is not up to scratch.


No Trampie, you were not sticking to the topic.

The whole point of the topic was how Plaid intend to incentivise people to work hard, set up businesses, employ others, build the economy, if they want to tax people that try to do that 'until the pips sqeak'.

That is why Plaid were mentioned. You couldn't answer the questions, indeed showed every sign if simply not understanding it. If you genuinely think people who do that sort of thing are doing so because that way they make a wage on top of universal credit, which was your suggestion, you are seriously on a different planet.

You then brought up the LibDem policy re student fees as though it had anything to do with them understanding economics or otherwise. It does not. The LibDem policy on student tuition fees was something that they gave up in a coalition agreement with the Conservative party in the last government. Nothing to do with economic understanding. It was a political decision.

The issue with student fees, is that on one hand we want to provide free education to students, and on the other hand, we've decided for political reasons that we want half of all young people to go to University. It is ridiculous, as we do not have anywhere near half of all jobs requiring a university education.
My policy, if I was in charge, which thankfully for everyone I'm not, would be to look at the numbers we need to go to university, and fund those numbers. It was about 20% in my day. I don't know what it would be now, but I suspect not much more. We should then spend an equivalent amount in enhancing apprenticeships and other in work training for young people that have that aptitude. All that we have at present is the stupid situation of people without degrees not getting a look in because of the sheer numbers of graduates. And graduates complaining that they can't get the jobs they were expecting.

Finally, the reason I voted LibDem at the last election (for the first time in a while), was because Labour's economic plan under Corbyn was utter nonsense, and because I couldn't vote for a version of the Tory party that spent all its time pandering to UKIP voters.

Now I'm more than happy to talk economic policy with you Trampie, but you don't want to do so. Largely because you are only interested in soundbites and don't actually understand the question let alone anything else. I may as well have the discussion with a chair draped in a Welsh flag.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:19 - Oct 30 with 757 viewsPozuelosSideys

Catalonia declares independence. on 16:39 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

There are no OECD countries with a tax take in excess of 50% of GDP.

If you are talking individual taxation (not including VAT for example), then Denmark has a top marginal personal tax rate of 51.5%, Sweden 59%, Norway 46%, Finland 39.5% and the U.K. 47%.

If you want to talk about fair taxation, how about finding out something about it first?

As I suspected, you are simply preaching the politics of envy.

Start focusing on stuff that makes a difference Trampie, rather than spouting vacuous platitudes. Same goes for Leanne Wood, who is an idiot.

Firstly, start collecting tax properly. Stop avoidance. The obscenely wealthy as you call them, just don't pay, and they won't pay if it's increased. Clamp down on that. Secondly don't increase tax for a political point if it means less money is collected. It's the money that's important, not point scoring.

Thirdly, recognise that Britain (and Wales), will become wealthier for everyone if businesses are set up and allowed to flourish. Wales doesn't need more handouts, it needs more investment, more companies creating more jobs, and better jobs. The sound bites from Leanne (and people like you), put businesses off coming to Wales.
[Post edited 30 Oct 2017 16:40]


If a political party stood up and said in their manifesto, "Our main aim is to overhaul the taxation system in the UK, simplify it, and make high net worth individuals and corporation pay their "fair" amount of tax", do you think it would be a vote winner? It would be for me, but would the majority care, especially if the alternative offers everyone free unicorns?

Thats not even mentioning the fact the non-politicians have the actual politicians in their pockets

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:21 - Oct 30 with 750 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:19 - Oct 30 by PozuelosSideys

If a political party stood up and said in their manifesto, "Our main aim is to overhaul the taxation system in the UK, simplify it, and make high net worth individuals and corporation pay their "fair" amount of tax", do you think it would be a vote winner? It would be for me, but would the majority care, especially if the alternative offers everyone free unicorns?

Thats not even mentioning the fact the non-politicians have the actual politicians in their pockets


It would be for me as well.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:24 - Oct 30 with 739 viewsPozuelosSideys

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:21 - Oct 30 by londonlisa2001

It would be for me as well.


Its a difficult sell. We know how complicated it is. The amount of time and investment thats required to even scope out the work is astronomical. I reckon it would get shot to pieces with screams of NHS! Education! Students! Money Tree!

People want everything now and dont see the big picture.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

1
Catalonia declares independence. on 19:26 - Oct 30 with 735 viewsexiledclaseboy

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:19 - Oct 30 by PozuelosSideys

If a political party stood up and said in their manifesto, "Our main aim is to overhaul the taxation system in the UK, simplify it, and make high net worth individuals and corporation pay their "fair" amount of tax", do you think it would be a vote winner? It would be for me, but would the majority care, especially if the alternative offers everyone free unicorns?

Thats not even mentioning the fact the non-politicians have the actual politicians in their pockets


I’d imagine the main response to any party that includes such a pledge in its manifesto would be “how”.

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:27 - Oct 30 with 731 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:19 - Oct 30 by PozuelosSideys

If a political party stood up and said in their manifesto, "Our main aim is to overhaul the taxation system in the UK, simplify it, and make high net worth individuals and corporation pay their "fair" amount of tax", do you think it would be a vote winner? It would be for me, but would the majority care, especially if the alternative offers everyone free unicorns?

Thats not even mentioning the fact the non-politicians have the actual politicians in their pockets


Taxation is the way forward butt, the main three Westminster unionist parties have turned tax into a dirty word.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:29 - Oct 30 with 727 viewsPozuelosSideys

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:26 - Oct 30 by exiledclaseboy

I’d imagine the main response to any party that includes such a pledge in its manifesto would be “how”.


Yup.. but thats why i say the time and investment required to do it would be huge. It also runs the risk of going tatties-up like various other Government projects like the IT upgrades.

Everything is possible, but it doesnt stand a single chance of being done over one 5 year period. It would need guaranteed commitment by all political parties.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:29 - Oct 30 with 725 viewsPozuelosSideys

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:27 - Oct 30 by trampie

Taxation is the way forward butt, the main three Westminster unionist parties have turned tax into a dirty word.


Taxing who? Businesses? Me? You? Who?

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:30 - Oct 30 with 721 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:26 - Oct 30 by exiledclaseboy

I’d imagine the main response to any party that includes such a pledge in its manifesto would be “how”.


Actually some of the biggest changes (in terms of tax take) are relatively simple if anyone had the political will.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:32 - Oct 30 with 718 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:27 - Oct 30 by trampie

Taxation is the way forward butt, the main three Westminster unionist parties have turned tax into a dirty word.


Nonsense.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:35 - Oct 30 with 701 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:29 - Oct 30 by PozuelosSideys

Taxing who? Businesses? Me? You? Who?


Corporations and individuals of course.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Poll: UK European Union membership referendum poll

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:36 - Oct 30 with 700 viewsPozuelosSideys

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:35 - Oct 30 by trampie

Corporations and individuals of course.


They already are taxed?

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:40 - Oct 30 with 690 viewstrampie

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:36 - Oct 30 by PozuelosSideys

They already are taxed?


Yes I know but in some cases they need to be taxed more.

What extra new taxes would you be proposing ?

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:43 - Oct 30 with 687 viewsexiledclaseboy

I think Trampie has at least half a point. If we want better funded public services then we shouldn’t be afraid to pay a bit more tax to fund them. But I also accept that raising the tax rates too high becomes counter productive and often leads to lower revenues being raised. And as others have pointed out, there are other ways of increasing the tax take without raising rates, like making sure everyone pays what they’re already due to.

It’s almost as if it’s not a black and white issue.

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Catalonia declares independence. on 19:43 - Oct 30 with 687 viewslondonlisa2001

Catalonia declares independence. on 19:40 - Oct 30 by trampie

Yes I know but in some cases they need to be taxed more.

What extra new taxes would you be proposing ?


As I've explained. No they don't.

They need to be collected not increased.
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