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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 327986 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 09:14 - Sep 11 with 650 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 07:13 - Sep 11 by Gowerjack

Hey Fûckwit

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word sovereignty.


A sovereign state is, in international law, a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. ... It is also normally understood that a sovereign state is neither dependent on nor subjected to any other power or state.

Therefore we are not sovereign, we can't over rule EU law and we are (according to so many remainers) dependent on the EU for trade or we will collapse. We are subjected to EU laws if we agree with them or not.
There is one centralised government that makes decisions for 28 other states, the EU. AS the EU parliament, according to the pamphlet and agreed by somebody in a post above, is toothless, who controls the Commission, who holds the Presidents to account?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:14 - Sep 11 with 647 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 21:52 - Sep 10 by Jango

You’re assuming people voted based on those lies. I certainly didn’t. In fact the remain argument is that nobody that voted leave knew what they were voting for yet remain voters did. Just let it go.


Good to hear you knew exactly what you voted for.

Can you do us a favour.

Let Rees Mogg and his ERG know what that is, because they seem unsure.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-eurosceptics/uk-conservative-eurosc

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3
The Countdown begins. on 09:17 - Sep 11 with 644 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 22:19 - Sep 10 by sherpajacob

Like I said.

I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.


You can't explain it in any sensible logical way because it's nonsense. That much is so very easy to understand. By your measure every vote/election/ plebiscite we've ever had isn't valid.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:20 - Sep 11 with 644 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 22:21 - Sep 10 by sherpajacob

Every 4 to 5 years approximately.


That's not going around in circles, that is a routine, a schedule. Going around in circles would be what we'd end up doing if every vote/election was denied validity and held again because someone said they'd believed a lie!!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:23 - Sep 11 with 642 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 07:07 - Sep 11 by Gowerjack

Your point relating to sovereignty is arrant nonsense.

This quote is from the Government's White Paper regarding Brexit..

" Parliamentary sovereignty
2.1 The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU "

Still you carry on in your little Daily Express bubble chanting the mantra project fear whilst blithely ignoring the facts.


I don't read the Express, never have. You have me down as a right winger, you are wrong. I don't identify solely with the politics of right or left, I have a mixture of views.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:32 - Sep 11 with 630 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 07:07 - Sep 11 by Gowerjack

Your point relating to sovereignty is arrant nonsense.

This quote is from the Government's White Paper regarding Brexit..

" Parliamentary sovereignty
2.1 The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU "

Still you carry on in your little Daily Express bubble chanting the mantra project fear whilst blithely ignoring the facts.


Right then, a sovereign state doesn't have to obey rules or laws from another power or government, yes? If you accept that (not that I'm convinced you will) then read this, taken from fullfact.org,

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.

Two important ideas make this system work. These are ‘supremacy’, meaning the higher status of EU laws compared to national laws, and ‘direct effect’, meaning that EU laws can be relied on in court.

Both these constitutional principles were recognised decades ago in leading decisions of the EU court.

The court said that they were necessary to ensure the survival of the EU legal system and to guarantee that EU rules are followed in all member countries.

The supremacy of EU laws

The principle of supremacy, or primacy, describes the relationship between EU law and national law.

It says that EU law should prevail if it conflicts with national law.

This ensures that EU rules are applied uniformly throughout the Union.

If national laws could contradict the EU treaties or laws passed by the EU institutions, there wouldn’t be this single set of rules in all member countries.

The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time

Other member countries have been more reluctant to accept the supremacy of EU law than the United Kingdom.

When the UK ceded supremacy to a supranational government it gave away sovereignty, if Parliament can't over rule the EU or ECJ how is it sovereign?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:57 - Sep 11 with 609 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 09:32 - Sep 11 by Catullus

Right then, a sovereign state doesn't have to obey rules or laws from another power or government, yes? If you accept that (not that I'm convinced you will) then read this, taken from fullfact.org,

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.

Two important ideas make this system work. These are ‘supremacy’, meaning the higher status of EU laws compared to national laws, and ‘direct effect’, meaning that EU laws can be relied on in court.

Both these constitutional principles were recognised decades ago in leading decisions of the EU court.

The court said that they were necessary to ensure the survival of the EU legal system and to guarantee that EU rules are followed in all member countries.

The supremacy of EU laws

The principle of supremacy, or primacy, describes the relationship between EU law and national law.

It says that EU law should prevail if it conflicts with national law.

This ensures that EU rules are applied uniformly throughout the Union.

If national laws could contradict the EU treaties or laws passed by the EU institutions, there wouldn’t be this single set of rules in all member countries.

The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time

Other member countries have been more reluctant to accept the supremacy of EU law than the United Kingdom.

When the UK ceded supremacy to a supranational government it gave away sovereignty, if Parliament can't over rule the EU or ECJ how is it sovereign?


Err ... because it could vote to leave the EU if it wanted to?

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1
The Countdown begins. on 10:01 - Sep 11 with 603 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 09:57 - Sep 11 by longlostjack

Err ... because it could vote to leave the EU if it wanted to?


Voting to leave isn't proof of sovereignty because until we leave we are still subject to their rules. Also, as we have seen all to frequently, the EU wants us to accept their jurisdiction in certain areas once we have left and it's held up negotiations.
If we left but had to accept ECJ primacy, open borders, adopt all EU standards and base any trade deals on those standards....how is that leaving, how is that being a sovereign state?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 10:05 - Sep 11 with 597 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 10:01 - Sep 11 by Catullus

Voting to leave isn't proof of sovereignty because until we leave we are still subject to their rules. Also, as we have seen all to frequently, the EU wants us to accept their jurisdiction in certain areas once we have left and it's held up negotiations.
If we left but had to accept ECJ primacy, open borders, adopt all EU standards and base any trade deals on those standards....how is that leaving, how is that being a sovereign state?


That’s simply not the case. Ask Rees-Mogg. Nothing to fear from no deal.

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1
The Countdown begins. on 10:06 - Sep 11 with 594 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 07:10 - Sep 11 by peenemunde

Absolute nonsense. Eu laws in many areas cannot be changed by the UK parliament and that’s a fact.


That we are able to choose to leave the EU is the very proof that UK Parliament is, and always has been, sovereign.

Sorry, but your understanding is slightly flawed, but it is a compelling, emotive argument made by Farage, which is why so many people have been sucked in on this point and think we've been done a great wrong. In truth we have voluntarily signed up to the EU restrictions that accompany membership; indeed we shaped many of them.

Parliament has always been sovereign. And that includes the House of Lords (who are the largest part of our Parliament and not democratically voted in; thereby busting another myth that we are somehow taking back democratic control).

Interestingly in 'taking back control' the Tories are now proposing to reduce the number of democratically elected MPs and increase the number of unelected representatives in the Lords. I wonder whether the leavers will be bleating about this?
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:06]
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The Countdown begins. on 10:14 - Sep 11 with 587 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 10:01 - Sep 11 by Catullus

Voting to leave isn't proof of sovereignty because until we leave we are still subject to their rules. Also, as we have seen all to frequently, the EU wants us to accept their jurisdiction in certain areas once we have left and it's held up negotiations.
If we left but had to accept ECJ primacy, open borders, adopt all EU standards and base any trade deals on those standards....how is that leaving, how is that being a sovereign state?


It's about choice. We are free to chose to be a member of the EU or not (or to sign up to EU conditions in return for something). Our Parliament has the ultimate say in this and that why they are sovereign.
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The Countdown begins. on 10:26 - Sep 11 with 583 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 10:06 - Sep 11 by LeonWasGod

That we are able to choose to leave the EU is the very proof that UK Parliament is, and always has been, sovereign.

Sorry, but your understanding is slightly flawed, but it is a compelling, emotive argument made by Farage, which is why so many people have been sucked in on this point and think we've been done a great wrong. In truth we have voluntarily signed up to the EU restrictions that accompany membership; indeed we shaped many of them.

Parliament has always been sovereign. And that includes the House of Lords (who are the largest part of our Parliament and not democratically voted in; thereby busting another myth that we are somehow taking back democratic control).

Interestingly in 'taking back control' the Tories are now proposing to reduce the number of democratically elected MPs and increase the number of unelected representatives in the Lords. I wonder whether the leavers will be bleating about this?
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:06]


The people didn't voluntarily, or by means of a plebiscite choose to sign up to the many treaties put in place since 1975.

If Parliament is sovereign why can't it over rule the EU?

As for the Lords I think you'll find that democracy is what most leavers care about and as such would happily reform the Lords, more likely do away with it in it's entirety and replace with a fully elected chamber, one where signing in and going home or going to sleep on the benches isn't allowed.
I'm all for reducing the number of politicians, I'd reverse devolution too! We are vastly over represented, we have way too many politicians.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 10:30 - Sep 11 with 583 viewsBatterseajack

Is any state truly sovereign in the eyes of the sovereignty puritans who voted Brexit, if it adheres with International Law?

By their definition, only rogue states are.
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:33]
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The Countdown begins. on 10:34 - Sep 11 with 572 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 09:23 - Sep 11 by Catullus

I don't read the Express, never have. You have me down as a right winger, you are wrong. I don't identify solely with the politics of right or left, I have a mixture of views.


So you got f**k all to say in the statement in the white paper then.

" Parliamentary sovereignty
2.1 The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU "
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:37]
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The Countdown begins. on 10:52 - Sep 11 with 549 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 10:34 - Sep 11 by Batterseajack

So you got f**k all to say in the statement in the white paper then.

" Parliamentary sovereignty
2.1 The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU "
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:37]


Do you fully agree with everything written in the white paper then? Or as usual, only the bits that suit your argument.
[Post edited 11 Sep 12:51]
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The Countdown begins. on 12:28 - Sep 11 with 510 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 23:52 - Sep 10 by DJack

So money to support (well paid) tech jobs is unconvincing?


Under the context of the question “what does the EU do for me” then research on metal alloys is very underwhelming.

Also we’re constantly told by the likes of Kilkenny that they are spending billions on improving the poor areas and helping poor people because they are so nice but according to this website it’s only big tech firms that seem to be benefitting in my area.

It’s all a bit of a con really isn’t it?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What’s your favourite crock?

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The Countdown begins. on 13:04 - Sep 11 with 495 viewsBatterseajack

Which one of these statements was said by Rees-mogg

"What we don’t want to do is to think that we can model economically what may happen with any degree of precision in two years time depending on factors that are uncertain"

"We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t. The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

"No deal brexit will boost UK economy by £1.1 trillion over 15 years"
2

The Countdown begins. on 13:04 - Sep 11 with 495 viewsBatterseajack

Which one of these statements was said by Rees-mogg?

"What we don’t want to do is to think that we can model economically what may happen with any degree of precision in two years time depending on factors that are uncertain"

"We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t. The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

"No deal brexit will boost UK economy by £1.1 trillion over 15 years"
0

The Countdown begins. on 13:15 - Sep 11 with 488 viewsLord_Bony

Which one of these statements was said by Rees-mogg

"What we don’t want to do is to think that we can model economically what may happen with any degree of precision in two years time depending on factors that are uncertain"

"We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t. The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

"No deal brexit will boost UK economy by £1.1 trillion over 15 years"

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The Countdown begins. on 13:18 - Sep 11 with 480 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 13:04 - Sep 11 by Batterseajack

Which one of these statements was said by Rees-mogg?

"What we don’t want to do is to think that we can model economically what may happen with any degree of precision in two years time depending on factors that are uncertain"

"We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t. The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

"No deal brexit will boost UK economy by £1.1 trillion over 15 years"


Which statement did you jump on as gospel and which one did you choose to file under bulls**t.
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The Countdown begins. (n/t) on 13:34 - Sep 11 with 461 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 13:18 - Sep 11 by Jango

Which statement did you jump on as gospel and which one did you choose to file under bulls**t.


[Post edited 11 Sep 18:59]

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0

The Countdown begins. on 14:59 - Sep 11 with 414 viewsHighjack

Which one of these statements was said by Rees-mogg?

"What we don’t want to do is to think that we can model economically what may happen with any degree of precision in two years time depending on factors that are uncertain"

"We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t. The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

"No deal brexit will boost UK economy by £1.1 trillion over 15 years"

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What’s your favourite crock?

0
The Countdown begins. on 16:22 - Sep 11 with 383 viewsEbo

The Countdown begins. on 13:18 - Sep 11 by Jango

Which statement did you jump on as gospel and which one did you choose to file under bulls**t.


You've been Jangoed!

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
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1
The Countdown begins. on 16:30 - Sep 11 with 379 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 10:06 - Sep 11 by LeonWasGod

That we are able to choose to leave the EU is the very proof that UK Parliament is, and always has been, sovereign.

Sorry, but your understanding is slightly flawed, but it is a compelling, emotive argument made by Farage, which is why so many people have been sucked in on this point and think we've been done a great wrong. In truth we have voluntarily signed up to the EU restrictions that accompany membership; indeed we shaped many of them.

Parliament has always been sovereign. And that includes the House of Lords (who are the largest part of our Parliament and not democratically voted in; thereby busting another myth that we are somehow taking back democratic control).

Interestingly in 'taking back control' the Tories are now proposing to reduce the number of democratically elected MPs and increase the number of unelected representatives in the Lords. I wonder whether the leavers will be bleating about this?
[Post edited 11 Sep 10:06]


That logic is crazy. Scotland had a referendum and could have left the UK, does that mean Scotland is completely independent from the UK, because they were given the choice.

No of course Scotland is not an independent country, because it still has to abide by UK legislation in many areas.

The eu have sovereignty over the UK in many areas and to deny that, shows just how stupid the remoaning side are.
[Post edited 11 Sep 19:34]
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The Countdown begins. on 16:57 - Sep 11 with 362 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 16:22 - Sep 11 by Ebo

You've been Jangoed!


Obviously sarcasm is lost on you.
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