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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 282421 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 13:29 - Sep 18 with 717 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 12:19 - Sep 18 by peenemunde

Whatever tariffs the eu wish to impose on the U.K., we match in return.
Win, win for the British, as we import for from them as they import from us.

As for Ireland, the technology already exists - so that issue is just a red herring.


"a Tariff war is a win win."

utterly clueless. Lunchtime in Wetherspoons economics at its most stark.

The brexiteer contradictions just keep coming, Economists for free trade want the UK to unilaterally remove all tariffs, Penismind wants us to match the EU tariff for tariff,

Yet you all keep claiming you know exactly what you voted for.

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The Countdown begins. on 14:00 - Sep 18 with 686 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 13:29 - Sep 18 by sherpajacob

"a Tariff war is a win win."

utterly clueless. Lunchtime in Wetherspoons economics at its most stark.

The brexiteer contradictions just keep coming, Economists for free trade want the UK to unilaterally remove all tariffs, Penismind wants us to match the EU tariff for tariff,

Yet you all keep claiming you know exactly what you voted for.


I think you will find all talk of tariffs are not coming from the U.K., but simple economics will tell you that if the eu impose tariffs and the U.K. responds with exactly the same, the eu companies would lose out more because they import more to us than we do to them.
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The Countdown begins. on 14:17 - Sep 18 with 677 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 14:00 - Sep 18 by peenemunde

I think you will find all talk of tariffs are not coming from the U.K., but simple economics will tell you that if the eu impose tariffs and the U.K. responds with exactly the same, the eu companies would lose out more because they import more to us than we do to them.


Google is your friend....

Does importer or exporter pay tariff?

Tariffs are a border-tax on the buyer, not the seller; they make it more expensive for the buyer to import a good into the country. It is of course possible, through agreement between the importer and exporter, to arrange for the exporter to pay the tariff, which sometimes happens.

Now, does the UK buy more from the EU than the EU does from the UK?
[Post edited 18 Sep 14:18]
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The Countdown begins. on 14:33 - Sep 18 with 662 viewsBytholWyn

The Countdown begins. on 10:04 - Sep 18 by peenemunde

Let’s not kid ourselves, the real reason the eu don’t want to negotiate in faith is because they are absolutely terrified of a successful independent U.K. as it will have a domino effect on other countries who will say β€œlook at the U.K. they are doing well since they left the Eu, we should do the same”.

So the alternative is to offer a bad deal, which will mean lots of eu citizens losing their jobs.
It’s the eu who are in a very difficult situation, much worse than what the U.K. is in.


Let's just try and apply some basic thinking skills here. The UK's exports to the rEU amount to 44% of our total exports, rEU exports to the UK amount to 18% of their exports. It really isn't very difficult to see that a no deal Brexit would harm the UK far more than the EU - which goes a long way towards explaining how poorly the negotiations have gone to date.

When Boris Johnson used the suicide vest analogy the other day it drew a smile to my face because I had a similar thought a while back (but thought it too tasteless to post my thoughts on this forum ) - difference is Johnson's use of the analogy doesn't make any sense (if by "handing the detonator to Brussels" causes them to trigger the explosion, then obviously it's no longer a suicide vest). The simple truth of the matter is that it's our threat of a no deal Brexit that's accurately described by a suicide vest anaolgy - we're happy to blow up our own economy as long as it blows up the rEU in the process. Shame that Barnier and co are calling our bluff... Of course the rest of the EU are concerned about a no deal Brexit - it would harm their economies for sure, but the idea that they would suffer more than us is frankly idiotic.

The most likely outcome to this mess is a Norway + deal - essentially tying us to the EU (but having no say in the rules and regulations) but giving us some extra freedoms in some limited areas - most probably financial services - as this is obviously a strategically important industry for the UK and the industry sector that poses fewest problems in terms of the Irish border question. Virtually no one will be happy with the deal on either side of the Remain/Brexit divide, but enough will grudgingly accept it for it to be the eventual outcome. It's the only way of reconciling the political imperative for Brexit resulting from the referendum and the economic reality that a no deal or hard Brexit will do huge short to medium term damage to a fragile UK economy.
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The Countdown begins. on 14:41 - Sep 18 with 655 viewsBytholWyn

The Countdown begins. on 14:00 - Sep 18 by peenemunde

I think you will find all talk of tariffs are not coming from the U.K., but simple economics will tell you that if the eu impose tariffs and the U.K. responds with exactly the same, the eu companies would lose out more because they import more to us than we do to them.


This is plain wrong - but also illustrates how poorly the debate up to the Brexit vote and since then has allowed arguments that are totally misleading to go unchallenged. This is not a trivial matter either - it goes to the heart of why our negotiations have gone so badly.

What you are confusing (and to be fair there are plenty of Brexiteers that have peddled these half-truths, so I'll be generous and suggest you've been misled) is the trade balance between the UK and some of the individual members of the EU as compared to the trade balance between the UK and the rest of the EU as a whole. So, for instance, it's true that Germany exports more to us than we do to them. But in the event of a no deal Brexit only Germany's trade with the UK (population 66 million) would be adversely affected, whereas we face an adverse impact on our trade with the whole of the rest of the EU (population 440 million). If you understand this fundamental fact you understand why the negotiations have gone so badly. We need the EU far more than they need us. It's that simple.
[Post edited 18 Sep 14:43]
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The Countdown begins. on 15:17 - Sep 18 with 624 viewspikeypaul

192 AFLI

SUCK IT UP YOU REMONAER LOSERS

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The Countdown begins. on 16:10 - Sep 18 with 607 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 15:17 - Sep 18 by pikeypaul

192 AFLI

SUCK IT UP YOU REMONAER LOSERS


192 days bmw and jaguar workers, that's how long you got.

Nissan and honda wont be far behind

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The Countdown begins. on 16:20 - Sep 18 with 598 viewspikeypaul

The Countdown begins. on 16:10 - Sep 18 by sherpajacob

192 days bmw and jaguar workers, that's how long you got.

Nissan and honda wont be far behind


Just like Nissan were going to leave the country if we did not take up the Euro as our currency,they soon STFU when their blackmail did not work.

More BS project fear, it’s water off a ducks back to the electorate now with the constant scare mongering.

Anyway we will see in 192 days if BMW and Jaguar are still here you have just said they will not I think they will,time will tell.

192 AFLI

SUCK IT UP YOU REMOANER LOSERS.

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The Countdown begins. on 17:37 - Sep 18 with 571 viewsBytholWyn

The Countdown begins. on 16:20 - Sep 18 by pikeypaul

Just like Nissan were going to leave the country if we did not take up the Euro as our currency,they soon STFU when their blackmail did not work.

More BS project fear, it’s water off a ducks back to the electorate now with the constant scare mongering.

Anyway we will see in 192 days if BMW and Jaguar are still here you have just said they will not I think they will,time will tell.

192 AFLI

SUCK IT UP YOU REMOANER LOSERS.


It's fair to say that given the level of investment car firms have in the UK any contraction in the car industry post-Brexit is probably going to be long-term rather than immediate. However, it's a fact that current investment in the car industry is running at a third of the level of a few years ago - and that's a direct result of Brexit fears.

It doesn't take a genius to see the threat to the car industry is real - we don't have any native manufacturers left, and just in time delivery is the norm in the industry - which would be seriously compromised by red tape in the event of a hard Brexit. Car companies aren't obliged to continue to manufacture car in the UK nor are they obliged to source components here - they will do so wherever it's most economical. A hard Brexit UK will be at a huge competitive disadvantage compared to our European counterparts due to tariff and non-tariff barriers. This isn't scare mongering - it's plain common sense. Which is why May and co. have at least enough realism to be seeking the continuation of a free trade area in goods.
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The Countdown begins. on 18:06 - Sep 18 with 560 viewsHighjack

Has anybody had any exotic sprasms lately?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The Countdown begins. on 00:03 - Sep 19 with 484 viewspikeypaul

191 AFLI

SIUYRL

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The Countdown begins. on 08:34 - Sep 19 with 442 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 00:03 - Sep 19 by pikeypaul

191 AFLI

SIUYRL


SHELL OIL
BOOBIES.

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The Countdown begins. on 08:46 - Sep 19 with 430 viewspikeypaul

The Countdown begins. on 08:34 - Sep 19 by sherpajacob

SHELL OIL
BOOBIES.


Glad you agree

Happy days

191 AFLI

SUCK IT UP YOU REMOANER LOSERS

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-1

The Countdown begins. on 09:06 - Sep 19 with 418 viewsBatterseajack

Pikey Paul...Putting the Great back into Great Britain.
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The Countdown begins. on 09:50 - Sep 19 with 394 viewsShaky


Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 09:59 - Sep 19 with 386 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 09:50 - Sep 19 by Shaky



Why is it only "foreign" journalists that take on the arch brexiteers and their mass of contradictions.

The UK media is failing the country massively.

Brian Walden would have dismantled rees mogg, Gove, farage, Johnson et al for breakfast, even Jimmy young would have had them on toast for dinner.

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The Countdown begins. on 10:09 - Sep 19 with 376 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 09:59 - Sep 19 by sherpajacob

Why is it only "foreign" journalists that take on the arch brexiteers and their mass of contradictions.

The UK media is failing the country massively.

Brian Walden would have dismantled rees mogg, Gove, farage, Johnson et al for breakfast, even Jimmy young would have had them on toast for dinner.


In fairness asking searching questions of Brexiters it is almost akin animal cruelty, due to their childlike ignorance.

The simple act of exposing their crass stupidity inherently run contrary to the British spirit of fair play.
[Post edited 19 Sep 10:10]

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The Countdown begins. on 10:29 - Sep 19 with 353 viewspikeypaul

The Countdown begins. on 09:59 - Sep 19 by sherpajacob

Why is it only "foreign" journalists that take on the arch brexiteers and their mass of contradictions.

The UK media is failing the country massively.

Brian Walden would have dismantled rees mogg, Gove, farage, Johnson et al for breakfast, even Jimmy young would have had them on toast for dinner.


You’ve obviously not listened to or watched the BBC in the last 2 years with its total europhile biased broadcasts.
Or for that matter read 80% of the newspapers.

Anyway democracy will be delivered guys get used to it and stop crying like spoilt little kids who have lost.

Look on the bright side you may have a vote to get back in in 20 odd years since it was the remain campaign that said it was a once in a life generation decision and would not be reversed or are you now saying you want to change it since you lost?

191 AFLI

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[Post edited 19 Sep 10:34]

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The Countdown begins. on 11:18 - Sep 19 with 336 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 10:09 - Sep 19 by Shaky

In fairness asking searching questions of Brexiters it is almost akin animal cruelty, due to their childlike ignorance.

The simple act of exposing their crass stupidity inherently run contrary to the British spirit of fair play.
[Post edited 19 Sep 10:10]


Isn’t fair play excepting the result when you have been beaten.
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The Countdown begins. on 11:38 - Sep 19 with 331 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 14:17 - Sep 18 by Batterseajack

Google is your friend....

Does importer or exporter pay tariff?

Tariffs are a border-tax on the buyer, not the seller; they make it more expensive for the buyer to import a good into the country. It is of course possible, through agreement between the importer and exporter, to arrange for the exporter to pay the tariff, which sometimes happens.

Now, does the UK buy more from the EU than the EU does from the UK?
[Post edited 18 Sep 14:18]


I think the point you are missing here is, if the price rise only affects the buyer then the buyer will look elsewhere for their goods. Hence the seller loses trade.
I have a friend, an avid cyclist. He cycled back and forth to work from Mumbles to the University for years. He wanted a new bike but the one he wanted was several thousand pounds.
When he was getting married (out in America, on the beach in San Diego) he noticed one day that the bike he wanted was seriously cheaper. He made enquiries and discovered it was cheaper to buy and import from America than just to buy it here.
Unfortunately a few months later he got mown down by a speeding car, spent months recovering...and the bike was a write off! He then learnt to drive and got a car.
Anyway, the point is, traders will lose business when tariffs increase as customers will look for cheaper deals, the wonder of the internet and a global economy see.

Re Shaky and his highly ignorant post, not all leavers are as dumb as that just as not all remainers are that bright.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 14:21 - Sep 19 with 294 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 11:38 - Sep 19 by Catullus

I think the point you are missing here is, if the price rise only affects the buyer then the buyer will look elsewhere for their goods. Hence the seller loses trade.
I have a friend, an avid cyclist. He cycled back and forth to work from Mumbles to the University for years. He wanted a new bike but the one he wanted was several thousand pounds.
When he was getting married (out in America, on the beach in San Diego) he noticed one day that the bike he wanted was seriously cheaper. He made enquiries and discovered it was cheaper to buy and import from America than just to buy it here.
Unfortunately a few months later he got mown down by a speeding car, spent months recovering...and the bike was a write off! He then learnt to drive and got a car.
Anyway, the point is, traders will lose business when tariffs increase as customers will look for cheaper deals, the wonder of the internet and a global economy see.

Re Shaky and his highly ignorant post, not all leavers are as dumb as that just as not all remainers are that bright.


So you accept prices would go up for the consumers here in the UK. If there was an alternative source for goods that's cheaper than buying from the EU, then we'd already be buying from there. If the alternative source only becomes cheaper after we slap import tariffs on incoming EU goods, then we'll be paying more than we did before leaving.

Cool story about your mate getting a cheaper price on a bike. That's because he cut out distributor costs.

American bikes are about to get more expensive with Trumps trade war with china taking effect. Do you think they'll sell more or less next year as a result?

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/09/17/trump-administration-ap
[Post edited 19 Sep 14:22]
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The Countdown begins. on 15:16 - Sep 19 with 270 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 11:38 - Sep 19 by Catullus

I think the point you are missing here is, if the price rise only affects the buyer then the buyer will look elsewhere for their goods. Hence the seller loses trade.
I have a friend, an avid cyclist. He cycled back and forth to work from Mumbles to the University for years. He wanted a new bike but the one he wanted was several thousand pounds.
When he was getting married (out in America, on the beach in San Diego) he noticed one day that the bike he wanted was seriously cheaper. He made enquiries and discovered it was cheaper to buy and import from America than just to buy it here.
Unfortunately a few months later he got mown down by a speeding car, spent months recovering...and the bike was a write off! He then learnt to drive and got a car.
Anyway, the point is, traders will lose business when tariffs increase as customers will look for cheaper deals, the wonder of the internet and a global economy see.

Re Shaky and his highly ignorant post, not all leavers are as dumb as that just as not all remainers are that bright.


Well if that is true, we eagerly await workable Brexit plans from the brightest and best Leave brains out there, as opposed to the piss-poor efforts from JRM's European Research Group that can be dismantled with childlike simplicity.

Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 15:48 - Sep 19 with 250 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 14:21 - Sep 19 by Batterseajack

So you accept prices would go up for the consumers here in the UK. If there was an alternative source for goods that's cheaper than buying from the EU, then we'd already be buying from there. If the alternative source only becomes cheaper after we slap import tariffs on incoming EU goods, then we'll be paying more than we did before leaving.

Cool story about your mate getting a cheaper price on a bike. That's because he cut out distributor costs.

American bikes are about to get more expensive with Trumps trade war with china taking effect. Do you think they'll sell more or less next year as a result?

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/09/17/trump-administration-ap
[Post edited 19 Sep 14:22]


Prices from EU suppliers will be more expensive but prices from elsewhere may be cheaper. Supply and demand might dictate that to stay competitive businesses may have to find a way to cut costs so UK citizens still buy from them, and vice versa of course.
If Trump starts a trade war with us then maybe prices will rise, or maybe, if we strike a good deal with America prices won't budge or, shock horror, come down?
Who knows what will happen. As long as Trump is in power anything might happen.
Someone asked why brexiteers always look on the negative side of the EU, I can ask the same of remainers, why can't you see the possibilities that leaving could bring? There are positives and negatives on both sides. remainers seem to be quite desperately attached to the EU, too scared to try another way. Maybe that's all it is, fear of the unknown, of the what ifs leaving brings.
Brits have, historically speaking been much braver than this but it seems the stoic, stiff upper lip Brit is a thing of the past. We can't even deal with the idea of something different anymore. I say we when of course it's not all of us, to say it was all of us would be as wrong as saying all leavers are child like in their stupidity/ignorance or whatever.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

-1
The Countdown begins. on 16:17 - Sep 19 with 234 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 15:16 - Sep 19 by Shaky

Well if that is true, we eagerly await workable Brexit plans from the brightest and best Leave brains out there, as opposed to the piss-poor efforts from JRM's European Research Group that can be dismantled with childlike simplicity.


JRM is the brightest of the leave brains. They had a plan all ready to publish, but decided to shelve it because they knew it would be hugely unpopular; free market in the NHS, slashing safety standards, allowing chlorinated chicken the end of manufacturing industry in the Uk etc etc.

The ERG's sole purpose now is to block chequers and any further peoples vote to force a no deal scenario, because that's the one that suits the off shore tax dodgers.

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The Countdown begins. on 18:28 - Sep 19 with 206 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 16:17 - Sep 19 by sherpajacob

JRM is the brightest of the leave brains. They had a plan all ready to publish, but decided to shelve it because they knew it would be hugely unpopular; free market in the NHS, slashing safety standards, allowing chlorinated chicken the end of manufacturing industry in the Uk etc etc.

The ERG's sole purpose now is to block chequers and any further peoples vote to force a no deal scenario, because that's the one that suits the off shore tax dodgers.


JRM is probably the most intelligent, and almost certainly the most slimy kunt going,

Not only by virtue of having off-shored his investment management business safely into the EU - do as I say, not as I do - but also in the way he uses sleazy but well crafted fund management marketing bullshit to flog his wares.

Grandiose sounding verbiage for example like the 50 year outlook for a Brexit dividend that is vague enough so as never actually tp hold him accountable. Slippery dishonest toffee nosed vvanker.

Give me 15 mins on Newsnight with him and I would take him apart.
[Post edited 19 Sep 18:32]

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