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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 403826 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 16:29 - Oct 4 with 612 viewsBytholWyn

The Countdown begins. on 16:26 - Oct 4 by Jango

All ifs and coulds again from the usuals. All very quiet a few days ago when German company Aldi’s announced it was definitely building another 100+ stores by 2020 bringing thousands of more jobs.


I'm sure that those working assembling cars for Nissan, BMW, Vauxhall et all will happily swap their well-paid jobs for ones working the shelf-stacking at Aldi...
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The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Oct 4 with 591 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 16:29 - Oct 4 by BytholWyn

I'm sure that those working assembling cars for Nissan, BMW, Vauxhall et all will happily swap their well-paid jobs for ones working the shelf-stacking at Aldi...


Completely dodged my point because it doesn’t suit your negative agenda. And not all jobs for those car manufacturers will be very well paid jobs, quite a lot probably on less than the very well
paid jobs at Aldi’s.

The Aldi’s jobs are definitely coming by the way. The car manufacturer jobs are still very much here also.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/appointments/aldi-recruiting-graduates-ne
[Post edited 4 Oct 19:34]
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The Countdown begins. on 18:41 - Oct 4 with 545 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Oct 4 by Jango

Completely dodged my point because it doesn’t suit your negative agenda. And not all jobs for those car manufacturers will be very well paid jobs, quite a lot probably on less than the very well
paid jobs at Aldi’s.

The Aldi’s jobs are definitely coming by the way. The car manufacturer jobs are still very much here also.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/appointments/aldi-recruiting-graduates-ne
[Post edited 4 Oct 19:34]


There's one thing I don't get though Jango. If the Aldi jobs are coming does that mean that people will be shopping for more food ?
[Post edited 4 Oct 18:43]

Poll: Who would you rather win? England or Sweden?

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The Countdown begins. on 18:50 - Oct 4 with 538 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 18:41 - Oct 4 by longlostjack

There's one thing I don't get though Jango. If the Aldi jobs are coming does that mean that people will be shopping for more food ?
[Post edited 4 Oct 18:43]


Well if the car manufacturers go, does that mean less people buy cars?
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The Countdown begins. on 18:52 - Oct 4 with 534 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 18:50 - Oct 4 by Jango

Well if the car manufacturers go, does that mean less people buy cars?


Food retailers don't export food.

Poll: Who would you rather win? England or Sweden?

1
The Countdown begins. on 19:01 - Oct 4 with 521 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 18:50 - Oct 4 by Jango

Well if the car manufacturers go, does that mean less people buy cars?


Yes of course.

It means that UK plc buys less of everything because the purchasing power of the laid off workers both at the manufacturers and their sub-suppliers vanishes from the economy.

Or more correctly the difference between their former wages and their future dole money.

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The Countdown begins. on 19:05 - Oct 4 with 521 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 18:52 - Oct 4 by longlostjack

Food retailers don't export food.


And how many car manufactures from the U.K. have stopped exporting cars?
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The Countdown begins. on 19:36 - Oct 4 with 504 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 19:01 - Oct 4 by Shaky

Yes of course.

It means that UK plc buys less of everything because the purchasing power of the laid off workers both at the manufacturers and their sub-suppliers vanishes from the economy.

Or more correctly the difference between their former wages and their future dole money.


So what happens to the purchasing powers of the newly appointed staff at Aldi’s? This is my point. You pick and choose.
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The Countdown begins. on 19:44 - Oct 4 with 498 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 19:05 - Oct 4 by Jango

And how many car manufactures from the U.K. have stopped exporting cars?


I'm out. Have a good evening.

Poll: Who would you rather win? England or Sweden?

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The Countdown begins. on 19:51 - Oct 4 with 496 viewsHighjack

What if Aldi start selling cars?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

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The Countdown begins. on 19:56 - Oct 4 with 489 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 19:44 - Oct 4 by longlostjack

I'm out. Have a good evening.


Can’t answer it I see.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:00 - Oct 4 with 485 viewsBytholWyn

The Countdown begins. on 19:56 - Oct 4 by Jango

Can’t answer it I see.


I'm hazarding a wild guess here - but I suspect he can only take so much fycwittery in one day.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:04 - Oct 4 with 477 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Oct 4 by Jango

Completely dodged my point because it doesn’t suit your negative agenda. And not all jobs for those car manufacturers will be very well paid jobs, quite a lot probably on less than the very well
paid jobs at Aldi’s.

The Aldi’s jobs are definitely coming by the way. The car manufacturer jobs are still very much here also.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/appointments/aldi-recruiting-graduates-ne
[Post edited 4 Oct 19:34]


Aldi opening a hundred new stores doesn’t create a single new job for the UK economy. If anything, it probably results in a net reduction in UK jobs. It certainly results in a reduction in the size of the UK economy.

Surely that is obvious?
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:16]
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The Countdown begins. on 20:04 - Oct 4 with 477 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 19:36 - Oct 4 by Jango

So what happens to the purchasing powers of the newly appointed staff at Aldi’s? This is my point. You pick and choose.


The UK grocery retail market is mature, growing at very low rates in volume and value with well established competitive patterns and structure.

One of the big trends over the last 5 years or so is that discounters in general and Aldi in particular are taking market share, basically because many UK consumers are flat broke.

Aldi are opening stores to cater for that market share gain, but because it is close to a zero sum game due to the low growth rates, those gains are occurring at the expense of others, primarily the market leader Tescos.

So what happens is that Aldi hires staff and Tescos lays a similar number off.

Theoretically Aldi are smaller and do not have the scale advantages Tescos enjoys, so all other things being equal will probably need to recruit more staff than Tescos (and others) will lay off. But the ratio is almost certainly no more than 1.3-1.5x and so is relatively insignificant in the greater scheme of things.

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The Countdown begins. on 20:15 - Oct 4 with 461 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 20:04 - Oct 4 by Shaky

The UK grocery retail market is mature, growing at very low rates in volume and value with well established competitive patterns and structure.

One of the big trends over the last 5 years or so is that discounters in general and Aldi in particular are taking market share, basically because many UK consumers are flat broke.

Aldi are opening stores to cater for that market share gain, but because it is close to a zero sum game due to the low growth rates, those gains are occurring at the expense of others, primarily the market leader Tescos.

So what happens is that Aldi hires staff and Tescos lays a similar number off.

Theoretically Aldi are smaller and do not have the scale advantages Tescos enjoys, so all other things being equal will probably need to recruit more staff than Tescos (and others) will lay off. But the ratio is almost certainly no more than 1.3-1.5x and so is relatively insignificant in the greater scheme of things.


Aldi employ less people to run a store than Tesco do for a store of the same size.

Plus profits are returned to Germany rather than largely remaining in the UK.

So your point is even more pronounced than you claim.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:23 - Oct 4 with 450 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 20:04 - Oct 4 by londonlisa2001

Aldi opening a hundred new stores doesn’t create a single new job for the UK economy. If anything, it probably results in a net reduction in UK jobs. It certainly results in a reduction in the size of the UK economy.

Surely that is obvious?
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:16]


So basically you’re saying Aldi is bad for the U.K. economy?
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The Countdown begins. on 20:38 - Oct 4 with 429 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 20:15 - Oct 4 by londonlisa2001

Aldi employ less people to run a store than Tesco do for a store of the same size.

Plus profits are returned to Germany rather than largely remaining in the UK.

So your point is even more pronounced than you claim.


Despite Aldi and Lidl growth the big 4’s annual sales have continued to grow. To suggest that every store Aldi open another one closes, or for every person Aldi employ one of the big store lays one off is absolute b****cks.

September 8, 2017
A new report published by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (Cebr) highlights the significant role that Aldi plays in adding value to the UK economy and supporting British businesses.

ALDI CONTRIBUTES OVER £8.5BN TO UK ECONOMY, A GDP ‘FOOTPRINT’ THAT IS SET TO RISE TO AT LEAST £11.5BN BY 2022
The analysis shows that Aldi contributed to the generation of over £8.5bn in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to the UK economy in 2016, through job creation, spending with British-based businesses, tax contributions and capital investment. This is set to grow to £11.5bn by 2022 as Aldi reaches its target of 1,000 UK stores.

The report also predicts that Aldi’s growth during the next five years will provide a £2.2bn boost for British businesses, as the GVA of its UK supplier relationships will increase from £4.5bn in 2016, to £6.7bn by 2022.

This increase is a direct result of Aldi sourcing products manufactured or grown in Britain whenever possible. Last year the supermarket worked with more than 1,000 UK businesses and generated 77% of its sales from products sourced via UK suppliers. Cebr highlighted how Aldi’s focus on British-based sourcing along with its efficient ways of working, deliver unbeatable value for customers, as shoppers saved an estimated £2.2bn last year by going to Aldi instead of the Big 4 supermarkets.

Key highlights of the report include:
Aldi’s GDP footprint of over £8.5bn represented 0.5% of UK GDP in 2016. Growth in GDP achieved through job creation, spending with British-based businesses, tax contributions and capital investment

Last year Aldi supported 146,000 direct and indirect jobs across the UK, which is equivalent to a 0.5% share of total UK employment in 2016. This catalysed the generation of an estimated £4.3bn in employee compensation

By 2022, Aldi will support at least 205,000 direct and indirect jobs, which would generate an estimated £5.9bn in employee compensation. Employment at Aldi grew by an average of 21% annually from 2005-2016, a period that coincides with the recession, during which unemployment hit 8% in 2011/2012

Shoppers saved an estimated £2.2bn last year by going to Aldi instead of the Big 4 supermarkets. Aldi’s focus on local sourcing and efficient business model result in exceptional value

In 2016 Aldi worked with more than 1,000 UK businesses, representing over 77% of the cost of all goods it sold in the UK

For every £100 of GVA generated by Aldi, an additional £720 of GVA contribution was generated in the wider economy in 2016

Aldi’s activities catalysed an estimated £1.6bn tax contribution in 2016
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:39]
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The Countdown begins. on 20:41 - Oct 4 with 422 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 20:15 - Oct 4 by londonlisa2001

Aldi employ less people to run a store than Tesco do for a store of the same size.

Plus profits are returned to Germany rather than largely remaining in the UK.

So your point is even more pronounced than you claim.


Really?

I reckon at least half of the staff at my local Tescos megastore are pickers for the home delivery service.. Which means that some meaningful percentage of the stackers are serving the home delivery business.

Take that lot out, and there really aren't that many dedicated store staff about.

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The Countdown begins. on 20:43 - Oct 4 with 421 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 20:23 - Oct 4 by Jango

So basically you’re saying Aldi is bad for the U.K. economy?


Well it depends what you mean by bad.

At the end of the day, people being able to provide food for their families more cheaply than they could do otherwise is a good thing.

Also Aldi tend to pay more to their staff than, say, Tesco, which is good. Good for the person employed, good for the tax payer who then subsidises that pay (through universal credit or tax credits) to a lesser extent, good for the tax receipt from that person, good for the spending power that person has.

But a Tesco store (just as an example) shutting in favour of an Aldi store is ‘bad’ in other ways, as overall, the number of people employed reduces, the benefits paid to the people that used to work at Tesco and are not reemployed costs the tax payer money, that reduces the spending power overall of the ex Tesco employees, and Tesco makes less profit which means less for their shareholders, which given it’s a FTSE business, is bad for our UK pension schemes, local authority investment funds, HMRC etc etc.

So it’s swings and roundabouts.

The issue I was commenting on is that Aldi opening stores doesn’t create new jobs. People don’t eat more, they change where they buy food from.

If, say, BMW move the production of the Mini away from the UK, there will likely be a small reduction in the number of Minis sold here, but really not by much. If you need to buy a car, you will buy a car. That car will just come from overseas.

Aldi opening stores would only have a positive impact on UK jobs if people came from France or Germany to buy their weekly shopping.

The other aspect, of course, is that a large amount of the food being sold in Aldi, Tesco or anywhere else, is coming in from overseas. Tariffs would make that a lot more expensive. As would any fall in exchange rates.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:44 - Oct 4 with 421 viewsShaky

You have to strip out retail price inflation to perform meaningful market growth analysis, Jango.

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The Countdown begins. on 20:51 - Oct 4 with 417 viewsShaky

. . . Here is something I found quickly:



Sauce: https://www.igd.com/articles/article-viewer/t/uk-grocery-retailing/i/15513

They don't adjust for inflation because they are clearly not as good at market analysis as I am, but mentally subtract a few percent of inflation and you will see the market is basically flat.
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:51]

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The Countdown begins. on 21:08 - Oct 4 with 393 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 20:38 - Oct 4 by Jango

Despite Aldi and Lidl growth the big 4’s annual sales have continued to grow. To suggest that every store Aldi open another one closes, or for every person Aldi employ one of the big store lays one off is absolute b****cks.

September 8, 2017
A new report published by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (Cebr) highlights the significant role that Aldi plays in adding value to the UK economy and supporting British businesses.

ALDI CONTRIBUTES OVER £8.5BN TO UK ECONOMY, A GDP ‘FOOTPRINT’ THAT IS SET TO RISE TO AT LEAST £11.5BN BY 2022
The analysis shows that Aldi contributed to the generation of over £8.5bn in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to the UK economy in 2016, through job creation, spending with British-based businesses, tax contributions and capital investment. This is set to grow to £11.5bn by 2022 as Aldi reaches its target of 1,000 UK stores.

The report also predicts that Aldi’s growth during the next five years will provide a £2.2bn boost for British businesses, as the GVA of its UK supplier relationships will increase from £4.5bn in 2016, to £6.7bn by 2022.

This increase is a direct result of Aldi sourcing products manufactured or grown in Britain whenever possible. Last year the supermarket worked with more than 1,000 UK businesses and generated 77% of its sales from products sourced via UK suppliers. Cebr highlighted how Aldi’s focus on British-based sourcing along with its efficient ways of working, deliver unbeatable value for customers, as shoppers saved an estimated £2.2bn last year by going to Aldi instead of the Big 4 supermarkets.

Key highlights of the report include:
Aldi’s GDP footprint of over £8.5bn represented 0.5% of UK GDP in 2016. Growth in GDP achieved through job creation, spending with British-based businesses, tax contributions and capital investment

Last year Aldi supported 146,000 direct and indirect jobs across the UK, which is equivalent to a 0.5% share of total UK employment in 2016. This catalysed the generation of an estimated £4.3bn in employee compensation

By 2022, Aldi will support at least 205,000 direct and indirect jobs, which would generate an estimated £5.9bn in employee compensation. Employment at Aldi grew by an average of 21% annually from 2005-2016, a period that coincides with the recession, during which unemployment hit 8% in 2011/2012

Shoppers saved an estimated £2.2bn last year by going to Aldi instead of the Big 4 supermarkets. Aldi’s focus on local sourcing and efficient business model result in exceptional value

In 2016 Aldi worked with more than 1,000 UK businesses, representing over 77% of the cost of all goods it sold in the UK

For every £100 of GVA generated by Aldi, an additional £720 of GVA contribution was generated in the wider economy in 2016

Aldi’s activities catalysed an estimated £1.6bn tax contribution in 2016
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:39]


That’s missing the point Jango.
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The Countdown begins. on 21:20 - Oct 4 with 385 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 20:41 - Oct 4 by Shaky

Really?

I reckon at least half of the staff at my local Tescos megastore are pickers for the home delivery service.. Which means that some meaningful percentage of the stackers are serving the home delivery business.

Take that lot out, and there really aren't that many dedicated store staff about.


Aldi overall (can’t find a UK split) have published revenue of €53bn (in 2010 - notoriously difficult to find recent revenue figures but will be far higher now) with 165,000 employees (2015 numbers).

Tesco have revenue (again overall) of £56bn (2017) with 476,000 employees (2017).

Enormous difference.

If shoppers move to Aldi, they wont use Tesco online presumably.
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The Countdown begins. on 21:22 - Oct 4 with 382 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 20:51 - Oct 4 by Shaky

. . . Here is something I found quickly:



Sauce: https://www.igd.com/articles/article-viewer/t/uk-grocery-retailing/i/15513

They don't adjust for inflation because they are clearly not as good at market analysis as I am, but mentally subtract a few percent of inflation and you will see the market is basically flat.
[Post edited 4 Oct 20:51]


Ironically of course, the way the overall market size increases is more customers. So we need immigration. Lots of it. To create more jobs in the sector...
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The Countdown begins. on 21:28 - Oct 4 with 375 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 21:08 - Oct 4 by londonlisa2001

That’s missing the point Jango.


I haven’t missed the point. You basically said earlier that for every job Aldi create, someone else loses a job. You’ve got absolutely no evidence to back up that statement. You then go on and say Aldi is bad for the economy, which is also bull**it.
[Post edited 4 Oct 21:28]
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