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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 402018 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 09:28 - Nov 10 with 375 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 21:39 - Nov 9 by Kilkennyjack

She is different gravy from the Maybot and Jezza.
We can all agree that.


Different how? She tells lies and manipultaes facts to try and get her way. She's a typical politician. The oil revenue lie to start with,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/17/nicola-sturgeon-urged-apologise-

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:50 - Nov 10 with 364 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 20:25 - Nov 9 by Catullus

As long as brexit rumbles on, so will this thread. To be fair I think most of us (whichever side of the fence we are) are completely and utterly fed up of it and can't wait for it to be finished, one way or the other!


Don’t hold your breath. The way May is lining things up she could be creating a political monster that will rumble on and divide the parties and the country for decades. Thatcher’s damage could psle into insignificance. I’m not talking about the impacts of Brexit itself (good or bad), just the half-cocked solution she’s coming up with that leaves us neither in nor out and obfuscates the NI position.
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The Countdown begins. on 10:39 - Nov 10 with 351 viewspikeypaul

I agree and just because the losers could not accept democracy and the result.

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No deal is coming home

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The Countdown begins. on 10:53 - Nov 10 with 348 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 09:50 - Nov 10 by LeonWasGod

Don’t hold your breath. The way May is lining things up she could be creating a political monster that will rumble on and divide the parties and the country for decades. Thatcher’s damage could psle into insignificance. I’m not talking about the impacts of Brexit itself (good or bad), just the half-cocked solution she’s coming up with that leaves us neither in nor out and obfuscates the NI position.


That is a worry and it makes a no deal scenario preferable even if just to get it over with. I do agree with pikey on his point though, the losing side haven't accepted the result and are working hard to over turn it and that has created a lot of the problems, it has given the EU succour and reason to play games with us. It has weakened our position.
This latest resignation just as a deal is allegedly close, is it really what it seems or more game playing by a remain supporter?
Nothing would surprise me that much anymore, politics is all about game playing. It's a multi dimensional chess board. So many different Kings and Queens all vying for position.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 11:13 - Nov 10 with 339 viewspikeypaul

If everyone had accepted the result and then had the best interests of the UK in their mind rather than go on a campaign to stop democracy we would be in a far better posistion all they have done is put the EU on the front foot and virtually guaranteed a no deal Brexit.

The remoaners have cut their noses off to spite their face and at the same time just to save their ego ruined their grand children’s futures.

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The Countdown begins. on 11:46 - Nov 10 with 329 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 11:13 - Nov 10 by pikeypaul

If everyone had accepted the result and then had the best interests of the UK in their mind rather than go on a campaign to stop democracy we would be in a far better posistion all they have done is put the EU on the front foot and virtually guaranteed a no deal Brexit.

The remoaners have cut their noses off to spite their face and at the same time just to save their ego ruined their grand children’s futures.

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And then have the audacity to moan about how the negotiations have gone. They’ve done their best to make sure it’s gone as bad as possible in the hope of overturning it.
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The Countdown begins. on 11:50 - Nov 10 with 325 viewspikeypaul

I know they are fecking unbelievable.

Complaining about the negotiations that they have done their utmost to wreck the last two years.

Even happier now we are heading for a no deal that the remoaners have virtually guaranteed.

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The Countdown begins. on 12:02 - Nov 10 with 320 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 10:53 - Nov 10 by Catullus

That is a worry and it makes a no deal scenario preferable even if just to get it over with. I do agree with pikey on his point though, the losing side haven't accepted the result and are working hard to over turn it and that has created a lot of the problems, it has given the EU succour and reason to play games with us. It has weakened our position.
This latest resignation just as a deal is allegedly close, is it really what it seems or more game playing by a remain supporter?
Nothing would surprise me that much anymore, politics is all about game playing. It's a multi dimensional chess board. So many different Kings and Queens all vying for position.


Just a semantic point here. The losers of the referendum are not trying to get it overturned as such. They are asking for another referendum to see if the public feeling is the same as it was in 2016. Now, importantly, that we are appraised with much more intelligence on the benefits / disbenefits of in or out. I voted out but I would welcome another referendum so that we can vote more confidently. If the result went the other way, then surely given these truly exceptional circumstances, then that would be true democracy.

As someone put it the other day, it was like deciding to have your leg chopped off in two years time but all that was really necessary were a couple of toes. But you voted for the leg so dry your eyes!

And by the way, I'm not sure which way I'd vote again. I just wish I wasn't given the option in the first place! However, either way I'd accept it.

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The Countdown begins. on 12:09 - Nov 10 with 318 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 12:02 - Nov 10 by union_jack

Just a semantic point here. The losers of the referendum are not trying to get it overturned as such. They are asking for another referendum to see if the public feeling is the same as it was in 2016. Now, importantly, that we are appraised with much more intelligence on the benefits / disbenefits of in or out. I voted out but I would welcome another referendum so that we can vote more confidently. If the result went the other way, then surely given these truly exceptional circumstances, then that would be true democracy.

As someone put it the other day, it was like deciding to have your leg chopped off in two years time but all that was really necessary were a couple of toes. But you voted for the leg so dry your eyes!

And by the way, I'm not sure which way I'd vote again. I just wish I wasn't given the option in the first place! However, either way I'd accept it.


Theyve never accepted it though that’s the problem. If all MP’s had got together and fought for the last 2 years against the EU for the best possible deal and we were still where we are now id see the argument for a 2nd vote. They’ve campaigned since day 1 to get it overturned, undermining the negotiation as much as possible and then moan about the situation we are in. Idiots
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The Countdown begins. on 12:15 - Nov 10 with 316 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 12:09 - Nov 10 by Jango

Theyve never accepted it though that’s the problem. If all MP’s had got together and fought for the last 2 years against the EU for the best possible deal and we were still where we are now id see the argument for a 2nd vote. They’ve campaigned since day 1 to get it overturned, undermining the negotiation as much as possible and then moan about the situation we are in. Idiots


I can't argue that maybe some have. That will always be the case. But I truly believe others are not as convinced now that nearly 2 years has elapsed and the more information we have our hands on.

You can't put all retainers in one pot.

As I said, surely true democracy should be a vote when as many facts that are possible are available to the voters. That would be fair?

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The Countdown begins. on 16:53 - Nov 10 with 279 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 12:15 - Nov 10 by union_jack

I can't argue that maybe some have. That will always be the case. But I truly believe others are not as convinced now that nearly 2 years has elapsed and the more information we have our hands on.

You can't put all retainers in one pot.

As I said, surely true democracy should be a vote when as many facts that are possible are available to the voters. That would be fair?


Maybe, if the government at the time had said we'll have the vote and if we choose leave, then after the negotiations the people will have the final say, I would agree entirely.
However, this was billed as a one off vote the result of which will be honoured. I'm sure Cameron only said that because he fully expected a remain vote. If he'd suspected at all we'd choose leave he'd never have given us a say, just like Blair before him.
Of course, if Cameron had held to his word and stayed on to negotiate the deal (and not run away like a coward) maybe things would be better?
You have to accept that most MP's have been arguing against Brexit, people like Soubry, Lammy, Woollaston, Pawsey and Clarke who have been very vocally anti brexit.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The Countdown begins. on 17:03 - Nov 10 with 276 viewsWarwickHunt

The Countdown begins. on 11:50 - Nov 10 by pikeypaul

I know they are fecking unbelievable.

Complaining about the negotiations that they have done their utmost to wreck the last two years.

Even happier now we are heading for a no deal that the remoaners have virtually guaranteed.

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Nothing to do with thick, deluded, clueless UK “negotiators” then - just people who weren’t involved.

You massive twàt.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Nov 10 with 271 viewsexiledclaseboy

I don’t understand the argument that alll MPs should have fallen in line behind Brexit as soon as the referendum was done, whether they agree with it or not.
[Post edited 10 Nov 17:08]

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The Countdown begins. on 17:13 - Nov 10 with 256 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 17:03 - Nov 10 by WarwickHunt

Nothing to do with thick, deluded, clueless UK “negotiators” then - just people who weren’t involved.

You massive twàt.


Anybody with the intellect and competence to negotiate a successful Brexit, wouldn't.

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The Countdown begins. on 17:16 - Nov 10 with 255 viewsHumpty

The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Nov 10 by exiledclaseboy

I don’t understand the argument that alll MPs should have fallen in line behind Brexit as soon as the referendum was done, whether they agree with it or not.
[Post edited 10 Nov 17:08]


It's the will of the people mun. Taking back control, and other meaningless guff.

Get with the program loser.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:30 - Nov 10 with 247 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 16:53 - Nov 10 by Catullus

Maybe, if the government at the time had said we'll have the vote and if we choose leave, then after the negotiations the people will have the final say, I would agree entirely.
However, this was billed as a one off vote the result of which will be honoured. I'm sure Cameron only said that because he fully expected a remain vote. If he'd suspected at all we'd choose leave he'd never have given us a say, just like Blair before him.
Of course, if Cameron had held to his word and stayed on to negotiate the deal (and not run away like a coward) maybe things would be better?
You have to accept that most MP's have been arguing against Brexit, people like Soubry, Lammy, Woollaston, Pawsey and Clarke who have been very vocally anti brexit.


Yes, the two vote system would have been more helpful and practical. And the reason for not having it is probably as you say.

As for Cameron, he'll hopefully live with his incompetence and cowardice for the rest of his life.

Still, it's not too late to go for the second vote even if it does fly in the face of democracy because ironically I think it would be democracy in action (for reasons mentioned).

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The Countdown begins. on 17:51 - Nov 10 with 235 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Nov 10 by exiledclaseboy

I don’t understand the argument that alll MPs should have fallen in line behind Brexit as soon as the referendum was done, whether they agree with it or not.
[Post edited 10 Nov 17:08]


There’s been MPs from strong leave constituencies refusing to accept the result, disgraceful.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:52 - Nov 10 with 234 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 17:06 - Nov 10 by exiledclaseboy

I don’t understand the argument that alll MPs should have fallen in line behind Brexit as soon as the referendum was done, whether they agree with it or not.
[Post edited 10 Nov 17:08]


Well pretty much all MPs were behind the referendum, most voted for it, most said they’d carry out the result of the referendum, all trot out the line that they respect the result of the referendum, both the tories and labour campaigned in 2017 to carry out the result of the referendum.

It’s almost as if what they say and what they do are two different things.

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The Countdown begins. on 17:54 - Nov 10 with 231 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 17:52 - Nov 10 by Highjack

Well pretty much all MPs were behind the referendum, most voted for it, most said they’d carry out the result of the referendum, all trot out the line that they respect the result of the referendum, both the tories and labour campaigned in 2017 to carry out the result of the referendum.

It’s almost as if what they say and what they do are two different things.


But why do you think that is?

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The Countdown begins. on 18:09 - Nov 10 with 224 viewsGowerjack

The Countdown begins. on 17:51 - Nov 10 by Jango

There’s been MPs from strong leave constituencies refusing to accept the result, disgraceful.


Not at all.

You misunderstand how our system works.

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The Countdown begins. on 18:11 - Nov 10 with 221 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 10:53 - Nov 10 by Catullus

That is a worry and it makes a no deal scenario preferable even if just to get it over with. I do agree with pikey on his point though, the losing side haven't accepted the result and are working hard to over turn it and that has created a lot of the problems, it has given the EU succour and reason to play games with us. It has weakened our position.
This latest resignation just as a deal is allegedly close, is it really what it seems or more game playing by a remain supporter?
Nothing would surprise me that much anymore, politics is all about game playing. It's a multi dimensional chess board. So many different Kings and Queens all vying for position.


I think you’re overplaying that. We’re where we are through the sheer incompetence of the people who (a) haven’t taken any responsibility for their role in all of this; leavers who wanted to crow from the sidelines but don’t want or can’t have the responsibility of delivering (Gove, Boris, etc), and mainly (b) Tories on both sides who were supposed to deliver and have failed miserably so far (Davis especially, Fox, May, and the new idiot Raab). Part of that may be down to Leavers, but only those in the government and Tories, not opposition parties or general commentators, etc. Sheer incompetence appears to be the main reason we’re here imo..

You’ll always have opposition to any position; that’s politics as you say. Anti-EU types have been crowing and campaigning for 40 years for this moment. That’s fine, that’s democracy. But you’d think after 40 years of moaning about the EU they’d know what to do, be aware of some of the basic principles of our relationship with Europe and be chomping at the bit to change things. Our Brexit Sec doesn’t even realise the importance of our main trade route ffs! And that far from the first thing they’ve not understood. We could probably do a better job :)
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The Countdown begins. on 18:42 - Nov 10 with 204 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 18:09 - Nov 10 by Gowerjack

Not at all.

You misunderstand how our system works.


So you thinks it’s perfectly ok for an MP to firstly refuse to accept the overall vote of the nation but also refuse to represent the will of its constituents. Basically do whatever they see fit.
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The Countdown begins. on 18:44 - Nov 10 with 198 viewsDJack

The Countdown begins. on 18:42 - Nov 10 by Jango

So you thinks it’s perfectly ok for an MP to firstly refuse to accept the overall vote of the nation but also refuse to represent the will of its constituents. Basically do whatever they see fit.


Politicians get voted in on their manifesto and they usually ignore that when in power.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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The Countdown begins. on 18:47 - Nov 10 with 197 viewsGowerjack

The Countdown begins. on 18:42 - Nov 10 by Jango

So you thinks it’s perfectly ok for an MP to firstly refuse to accept the overall vote of the nation but also refuse to represent the will of its constituents. Basically do whatever they see fit.


It's not about what I think.

MP's once elected are free to make their own value judgements there is no obligation on them to carry out the will of their constituents.

It's how our constitution works.

Plastic since 1974
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The Countdown begins. on 18:53 - Nov 10 with 190 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 18:47 - Nov 10 by Gowerjack

It's not about what I think.

MP's once elected are free to make their own value judgements there is no obligation on them to carry out the will of their constituents.

It's how our constitution works.


Yes, and the way some of the remain MPs have acted since the vote is a disgrace.
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