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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 751187 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:29 - Apr 1 with 686 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:03 - Apr 1 by Jango

The impact you’ve witnessed in work is the result of the build up to us leaving. That was always going to be case even if it has been made worse by the shambolic government. How the U.K. performs once we’ve left is pure guesswork and as we’ve seen time and time again, the apparent experts at predicting the future are pretty useless at it. As I’ve said, the true impact of Brexit won’t be revealed until after we’ve left and even then it will be a year or 2 down the line. This was quite obvious from the very start which is why it baffles me when remainers use the current state of affairs as a stick to bash leave voters with. We voted leave because we think the country will flourish once outside of the EU.


The "apparent experts" weren't "pretty useless" with their forecasts. That's lazy talk that we see all the time from Brexiteers. You've just got to sift through the sensationalist crap and headlines. And remember that much of the forecasts pre-vote hadn't factored in £50bn of quantitative easing either, and they all have conditions attached (e.g. the Treasury one involved us having a new form of relationship with the EU, which we haven't even got close to yet).

The trouble with all of this is they are just forecasts and need to be considered as such, not beholden as gospel.

The FT's economic editor ran through a comparison of several of the main ones, and they didn't do too badly. Well enough to kick the lazy 'project fear' mantra into touch if you actually think about them:


Let's get some clarity on what sort of Brexit will happen, but at the moment from my perspective it's just waiting to see how much damage limitation there will be.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:36 - Apr 1 with 681 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:14 - Apr 1 by Jango

Talking wet as usual I see. The true benefits of Brexit won’t be revealed until we’ve left, that is a fact. You can use assumptions as facts if you wish but that’s all they are, assumptions. We are still waiting for the house price crash, 500,000 job losses etc in the immediate aftermath of a leave vote to reveal themself but it’s never going to happen is it.


People voted based upon what the benefits would be right? For example...

The 350m
Immigration
yadda yadda...

Are you suggesting now that we didn't know the benefits of leaving the EU before the vote took place?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:37 - Apr 1 with 675 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:29 - Apr 1 by LeonWasGod

The "apparent experts" weren't "pretty useless" with their forecasts. That's lazy talk that we see all the time from Brexiteers. You've just got to sift through the sensationalist crap and headlines. And remember that much of the forecasts pre-vote hadn't factored in £50bn of quantitative easing either, and they all have conditions attached (e.g. the Treasury one involved us having a new form of relationship with the EU, which we haven't even got close to yet).

The trouble with all of this is they are just forecasts and need to be considered as such, not beholden as gospel.

The FT's economic editor ran through a comparison of several of the main ones, and they didn't do too badly. Well enough to kick the lazy 'project fear' mantra into touch if you actually think about them:


Let's get some clarity on what sort of Brexit will happen, but at the moment from my perspective it's just waiting to see how much damage limitation there will be.


He probably doesn't know what QE is.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:42 - Apr 1 with 654 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:05 - Apr 1 by chad

Think we need to understand the difference between individual projections and expectations (which as we have seen can be spectacularly wrong) and actual occurrences, of which the less complex ones may often be fairly accurately predicted, but are not fact until they occur. The more complex massively interdependent ones a very different matter. As the saying goes nothing is certain (and I am not sure the death and taxes thing is totally accurate either).

The statement was

“I'm still waiting for the benefits of Brexit to reveal themselves”

I think the point being made is you can wait all you wish but such actual revelations will not occur before the event has begun.


I guess it depends on where you get your information from and whether you understand it.

You mention projections and expectations. Was the 350m a projection and or expecation? Was it also a benefit of leaving?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:53 - Apr 1 with 623 viewsmajorraglan

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:29 - Apr 1 by LeonWasGod

The "apparent experts" weren't "pretty useless" with their forecasts. That's lazy talk that we see all the time from Brexiteers. You've just got to sift through the sensationalist crap and headlines. And remember that much of the forecasts pre-vote hadn't factored in £50bn of quantitative easing either, and they all have conditions attached (e.g. the Treasury one involved us having a new form of relationship with the EU, which we haven't even got close to yet).

The trouble with all of this is they are just forecasts and need to be considered as such, not beholden as gospel.

The FT's economic editor ran through a comparison of several of the main ones, and they didn't do too badly. Well enough to kick the lazy 'project fear' mantra into touch if you actually think about them:


Let's get some clarity on what sort of Brexit will happen, but at the moment from my perspective it's just waiting to see how much damage limitation there will be.


Some objective reporting and honesty. Professional economists with no axe to grind or political agenda are the people to take heed of as they are putting their reputation on the line with duff info. Politicians on the other hand only have to Court popular opinion. Thanks for the link.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:11 - Apr 1 with 606 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:29 - Apr 1 by LeonWasGod

The "apparent experts" weren't "pretty useless" with their forecasts. That's lazy talk that we see all the time from Brexiteers. You've just got to sift through the sensationalist crap and headlines. And remember that much of the forecasts pre-vote hadn't factored in £50bn of quantitative easing either, and they all have conditions attached (e.g. the Treasury one involved us having a new form of relationship with the EU, which we haven't even got close to yet).

The trouble with all of this is they are just forecasts and need to be considered as such, not beholden as gospel.

The FT's economic editor ran through a comparison of several of the main ones, and they didn't do too badly. Well enough to kick the lazy 'project fear' mantra into touch if you actually think about them:


Let's get some clarity on what sort of Brexit will happen, but at the moment from my perspective it's just waiting to see how much damage limitation there will be.


Everybody knew that during the Brexit negotiations and immediately after leaving the economy would take a hit. To those of us not desperately looking for anything negative it’s not surprising. Those experts who predicted Armageddon in the immediate aftermath of a leave vote got is incredibly wrong. We won’t know if their predictions for post Brexit are accurate until we’ve actually left for a couple of years. Those who keep asking for evidence that Brexit will be successful are not well in the head.

The issue on this site is that certain individuals do take those forecasts as gospel.
[Post edited 1 Apr 12:13]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:18 - Apr 1 with 589 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:11 - Apr 1 by Jango

Everybody knew that during the Brexit negotiations and immediately after leaving the economy would take a hit. To those of us not desperately looking for anything negative it’s not surprising. Those experts who predicted Armageddon in the immediate aftermath of a leave vote got is incredibly wrong. We won’t know if their predictions for post Brexit are accurate until we’ve actually left for a couple of years. Those who keep asking for evidence that Brexit will be successful are not well in the head.

The issue on this site is that certain individuals do take those forecasts as gospel.
[Post edited 1 Apr 12:13]


Point missed in spectacular fashion.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:39 - Apr 1 with 565 viewsWingstandwood

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:11 - Apr 1 by Jango

Everybody knew that during the Brexit negotiations and immediately after leaving the economy would take a hit. To those of us not desperately looking for anything negative it’s not surprising. Those experts who predicted Armageddon in the immediate aftermath of a leave vote got is incredibly wrong. We won’t know if their predictions for post Brexit are accurate until we’ve actually left for a couple of years. Those who keep asking for evidence that Brexit will be successful are not well in the head.

The issue on this site is that certain individuals do take those forecasts as gospel.
[Post edited 1 Apr 12:13]


There would me no greater Armageddon than public services/U.K infrastructure being brought to their knees by unsustainable EU (should be controlled immigration) open border mass immigration numbers. A ITV News report scared the absolute sh1t out of me or anyone else with common sense who watched it.

And add to that the horrendous decline of wages and appalling working conditions that importation of cheap labour has bred n' fed.

Common sense should be applied like it should have been many years beforehand to prevent the subprime mortgage crisis, credit crunch and austerity. That (yet again) made the working class to suffer the most.

I'm all for a sensible democratic EU, there currently isn't one, its has lost the plot.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:54 - Apr 1 with 541 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:18 - Apr 1 by costalotta

Point missed in spectacular fashion.


“Leaving the EU would almost certainly damage our economic prospects”. Apart from predicting an unemployment rise — its absence is part of a longer UK puzzle of disappointing productivity growth amid strong employment gains — the outlook was remarkably accurate.

I haven’t missed the point, the article is nonsense. We haven’t left the EU yet. Yet again people are looking for negatives as a stick to bash with. Using articles like this to prove leave voters wrong is laughable. Once we’ve left and have been at it alone for a period of time then come back actual statistics not pointless ones.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:07 - Apr 1 with 518 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:54 - Apr 1 by Jango

“Leaving the EU would almost certainly damage our economic prospects”. Apart from predicting an unemployment rise — its absence is part of a longer UK puzzle of disappointing productivity growth amid strong employment gains — the outlook was remarkably accurate.

I haven’t missed the point, the article is nonsense. We haven’t left the EU yet. Yet again people are looking for negatives as a stick to bash with. Using articles like this to prove leave voters wrong is laughable. Once we’ve left and have been at it alone for a period of time then come back actual statistics not pointless ones.


Ok,

Do we know the benefits of leaving the EU?
Were the benefits of leaving the EU communicated and debated during the 2016 Ref?
Are those benefits (if they were communicated) true?

Now, you said in your post that the benefits would NOT BE REVEALED until we've left right? Because if so that would imply you and many others didn't know what you were voting for?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:24 - Apr 1 with 437 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:07 - Apr 1 by costalotta

Ok,

Do we know the benefits of leaving the EU?
Were the benefits of leaving the EU communicated and debated during the 2016 Ref?
Are those benefits (if they were communicated) true?

Now, you said in your post that the benefits would NOT BE REVEALED until we've left right? Because if so that would imply you and many others didn't know what you were voting for?


People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in. I don’t know if we will be better off until it happens. You can’t possibly know what is gonna happen in the next few years within the EU so using your logic you don’t know what you were voting for.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:41 - Apr 1 with 428 viewsBatterseajack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:24 - Apr 1 by Jango

People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in. I don’t know if we will be better off until it happens. You can’t possibly know what is gonna happen in the next few years within the EU so using your logic you don’t know what you were voting for.


Yeh, but what do you hope that would happen that will then make us better off being outside the EU?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Apr 1 with 405 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:24 - Apr 1 by Jango

People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in. I don’t know if we will be better off until it happens. You can’t possibly know what is gonna happen in the next few years within the EU so using your logic you don’t know what you were voting for.


No answering the questions? Mate as soon as you are challenged on anything that you post you become a wibbly wobbly waffler.

You need a logic transplant my friend... I did know what i was voting for. One of them things was Free Movement... have a guess at the others, even you should know what the other pillars are?...there again.

Whereas your finally admitting you didn't know what you voted for.
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:15]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:23 - Apr 1 with 392 viewsKilkennyjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Apr 1 by costalotta

No answering the questions? Mate as soon as you are challenged on anything that you post you become a wibbly wobbly waffler.

You need a logic transplant my friend... I did know what i was voting for. One of them things was Free Movement... have a guess at the others, even you should know what the other pillars are?...there again.

Whereas your finally admitting you didn't know what you voted for.
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:15]


This might help some ....

At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles:
the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.
The “four freedoms” were enshrined in the 1957 Treaty of Rome and reinforced in the Single European Act in 1986, the 1992 Maastricht treaty and the Lisbon treaty of 2007.

Thats remain see ....

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:33 - Apr 1 with 367 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Apr 1 by costalotta

No answering the questions? Mate as soon as you are challenged on anything that you post you become a wibbly wobbly waffler.

You need a logic transplant my friend... I did know what i was voting for. One of them things was Free Movement... have a guess at the others, even you should know what the other pillars are?...there again.

Whereas your finally admitting you didn't know what you voted for.
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:15]


A logic transplant? He'd need a fücking brain one first, the stupendously thick twát.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:42 - Apr 1 with 359 viewscostalotta

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:33 - Apr 1 by WarwickHunt

A logic transplant? He'd need a fücking brain one first, the stupendously thick twát.


Haaahahahahhaha.

You're of course right Mr Warwick!

Big day today in the Commons. Its funny now that more and more are actually talking about a peoples confirmatory vote and sneaking back into the argument the revoking of a50. Whereas only 3 months ago both were big no no's.

It remains a possibility that we will end up remaining! Can you imagine the poor Jango's brain then. He'll have to rename himself to jingle!
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:53]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:51 - Apr 1 with 345 viewsAce_Jack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:28 - Mar 31 by rockinjk

I never thought I’d ever say this but I’m veering towards no deal

I know it will be catastrophic but Brexit supporters need to learn a harsh lesson I think they will never take responsibility for their mess

I’d rather it to the May deal or some other fudge

I’ve hit the wall with it now


They'd only blame us.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:00 - Apr 1 with 336 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:23 - Apr 1 by Kilkennyjack

This might help some ....

At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles:
the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.
The “four freedoms” were enshrined in the 1957 Treaty of Rome and reinforced in the Single European Act in 1986, the 1992 Maastricht treaty and the Lisbon treaty of 2007.

Thats remain see ....


That’s why Britain voted out.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:05 - Apr 1 with 326 viewsEbo

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:24 - Apr 1 by Jango

People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in. I don’t know if we will be better off until it happens. You can’t possibly know what is gonna happen in the next few years within the EU so using your logic you don’t know what you were voting for.


"People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in"

We voted remain because we knew 100% we'd be better off in. Imagine the last 3 years without this Brexit crap, just f ucking imagine it!!

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
Poll: What couldn't you live without?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:09 - Apr 1 with 323 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:05 - Apr 1 by Ebo

"People voted leave because they believed we will be better off out. You voted remain because you believe we would be better off in"

We voted remain because we knew 100% we'd be better off in. Imagine the last 3 years without this Brexit crap, just f ucking imagine it!!


No need to imagine it, Eb, it would have just followed the same pattern. The long, slow crumbling of our skills and manufacturing base.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:29 - Apr 1 with 294 viewsBatterseajack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:09 - Apr 1 by Lohengrin

No need to imagine it, Eb, it would have just followed the same pattern. The long, slow crumbling of our skills and manufacturing base.


Can't see how brexit will do anything other than accelerate that.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:41 - Apr 1 with 271 viewschad

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:42 - Apr 1 by costalotta

I guess it depends on where you get your information from and whether you understand it.

You mention projections and expectations. Was the 350m a projection and or expecation? Was it also a benefit of leaving?


The very point I was making to you

As far as the £350 million a week, how am I any more likely to know than you it is not a figure I produced. In fact I produced detailed figures in the other thread, which aligned with a number of official sources, and I assume are pretty accurate as no one has taken up my request to point out any discrepancies.

I imagine it reflects our full EU Membership fee at the time. On 2017 figures it is the best part of 1/2 a billion light.

So it might have been the latest figures available at the time of the referendum, without taking into account our large rebate which is deducted from the membership fee.

If it is a projection (i.e something we cannot know for certain but do our best to extrapolate from current knowns, taking into account all known variables and interdependencies) then it seems it needs to be considerably higher taking account of the exponential rise in fees since 2000. In that case it is presumably also projecting the long pushed for and clearly stated intention of the EU to do away with all rebates, seen as no longer appropriate in a family of nations.

Of course our veto protects us from that and it has been ruled that revoking our intention to leave within the notice period gives us the right to remain on our current terms.

So it depends how indomitable you believe our veto to be, given I believe we are the only member with a permanent rebate and ours is very large compared to the few other limited ones. V’s the long term desire and openly recently expressed intention to do away with all rebates. How likely in our weakened state and with our declining power, are we to be able to stand out on our own against the political pressure of the other 27 and the undoubted political ramifications of doing so. Keeping in mind that Blair previously agreed to a substantial lessening of our rebate in relation to expansion and we were anyway willing to give it up completely then under certain conditions relating to CAP reform from what I can see.


However on the point you are obviously trying to make, surely you would expect the head of the Bank of England to be impartial and not to seriously scare monger, otherwise he unfortunately becomes like the little boy who cried wolf. He was fully aware of all the mechanisms available to him, when he was making those predictions despite that. He certainly seemed to be eating humble pie big time after his major misdiagnosis and doesn’t strike me as the modest type.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:46 - Apr 1 with 256 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:29 - Apr 1 by Batterseajack

Can't see how brexit will do anything other than accelerate that.


I fully expect Brexit to be shambolic, I’m counting on it. It’s the next turn I’m interested in.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:49 - Apr 1 with 247 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Apr 1 by costalotta

No answering the questions? Mate as soon as you are challenged on anything that you post you become a wibbly wobbly waffler.

You need a logic transplant my friend... I did know what i was voting for. One of them things was Free Movement... have a guess at the others, even you should know what the other pillars are?...there again.

Whereas your finally admitting you didn't know what you voted for.
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:15]


Go back through the thread and you’ll realise one of the main reasons I voted leave was because of free movement/immigration. It goes in line with my thinking that we’ll be better of as union without it, especially when it comes the industry I work in. What comes next is you tell me I’m either a racist or stupid for not understanding the benefits. I know exactly what I voted for, whether it turns out to be the correct decision only time will tell but to tell people they are wrong before we’ve even left I comical.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:59 - Apr 1 with 222 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:42 - Apr 1 by costalotta

Haaahahahahhaha.

You're of course right Mr Warwick!

Big day today in the Commons. Its funny now that more and more are actually talking about a peoples confirmatory vote and sneaking back into the argument the revoking of a50. Whereas only 3 months ago both were big no no's.

It remains a possibility that we will end up remaining! Can you imagine the poor Jango's brain then. He'll have to rename himself to jingle!
[Post edited 1 Apr 15:53]


Put it this way, I won’t spend 3 years of my life protesting and having daily meltdowns like your lot.
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