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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1223973 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:15 - May 30 with 908 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:44 - May 30 by sherpajacob

Your argument is again morally and legally bankrupt and is an admission Johnson is guilty. If Johnson wants to implicate others to mitigate his guilt, let him do so. Wouldn't that be interesting.

The prosecutor has made a decision to go after Johnson first, because they believe they have the evidence required, particularly in relation to him continuing to use the figure after being told not to.

Who is to say prosecutions against others won't follow. Where will it end?

Hopefully, with honest politicians.


Nice catchphrase you keep trying to make a thing.

There's no such admission whatsoever, behave. It's a case of sophistry. The figure used was gross before rebate. The argument is if that's a valid thing to claim or not given the rebate exists and is applied... the argument that it somehow influenced people to vote Leave is spurious at best. Those voting leave due to not wanting to pay EU anything aren't going to care if it's 350m or 250m after all.

The prosecutor, in this case someone who previously tried to crowdfund to get referendum result deemed illegal only to then delete all evidence of that has gone after BoJo for the simple fact he's in running for Tory leader. Others used the same claim, others devised the same claim. It's all bs and you know that.

Gove, Stuart - chairs of Vote Leave - made same claims after ONS advice. They won't be persued by this muppet and you know it.

Osborne, Carney won't be persued by this muppet - their lies / factual incorrectness to be charitable were on behalf of Remain, something this muppet wants.

I'd be amazed if there was a conviction.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:13 - May 30 with 881 viewsladyjack

The huge story from last week was the Brexit party topping the polls in Wales and in England, although the solid remain parties combined beat the combined solid leave parties, does that point to remain winning any potential second referendum ? - who knows and nobody knows what Labour and the Conservatives stand for.
What is the future of the Brexit party [or is it a company ?], if we leave the EU will they disband ?, they apparently don't even have a manifesto at this stage.

The big story in Wales that is flying under the radar is that Plaid beat Labour as well as the Tories and Lib-Dems last week, if that upward curve can be repeated in other elections then the political landscape in Wales might be about to change .
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:47 - May 30 with 862 viewsBytholWyn

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:15 - May 30 by bluey_the_blue

Nice catchphrase you keep trying to make a thing.

There's no such admission whatsoever, behave. It's a case of sophistry. The figure used was gross before rebate. The argument is if that's a valid thing to claim or not given the rebate exists and is applied... the argument that it somehow influenced people to vote Leave is spurious at best. Those voting leave due to not wanting to pay EU anything aren't going to care if it's 350m or 250m after all.

The prosecutor, in this case someone who previously tried to crowdfund to get referendum result deemed illegal only to then delete all evidence of that has gone after BoJo for the simple fact he's in running for Tory leader. Others used the same claim, others devised the same claim. It's all bs and you know that.

Gove, Stuart - chairs of Vote Leave - made same claims after ONS advice. They won't be persued by this muppet and you know it.

Osborne, Carney won't be persued by this muppet - their lies / factual incorrectness to be charitable were on behalf of Remain, something this muppet wants.

I'd be amazed if there was a conviction.


I think we should all welcome this action if we care about democracy. To make unrealistic predictions or to tell lies is one thing, but to brazenly repeat those lies when they've been called out by an official body is another matter altogether. Regardless of whether or not this action succeeds (and if it does I suspect the punishment will be a slap on the wrist) - it's a healthy development for our democracy that those who undermine democratic principles are held to account. If someone wishes to take Gove, Osborne or Cameron to task then I would welcome that too - although I suspect their chances of success would be far more remote.

It says it all about the hard right that they're quite happy for those representing their standpoint to not only lie but to repeat those lies even when they've been called out. So much for their commitment to democratic principles.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:11 - May 30 with 814 viewsladyjack



Will Brexit bring about a united Ireland at a quicker rate than would otherwise have been the case ?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:18 - May 30 with 801 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:47 - May 30 by BytholWyn

I think we should all welcome this action if we care about democracy. To make unrealistic predictions or to tell lies is one thing, but to brazenly repeat those lies when they've been called out by an official body is another matter altogether. Regardless of whether or not this action succeeds (and if it does I suspect the punishment will be a slap on the wrist) - it's a healthy development for our democracy that those who undermine democratic principles are held to account. If someone wishes to take Gove, Osborne or Cameron to task then I would welcome that too - although I suspect their chances of success would be far more remote.

It says it all about the hard right that they're quite happy for those representing their standpoint to not only lie but to repeat those lies even when they've been called out. So much for their commitment to democratic principles.


In theory yes, in practice, no. MPs are already held to account by the electorate after all.

In this instance, the question is was it a lie or was it sophistry - argument can be made for the latter as it ignored the rebate. Equally, what impact did it have? Is it plausible someone would have been happy paying 250m rather than 350m?

If the genuine intent is to prevent MPs "lying" then don't think many would argue against. That's not the case here though. It's a cynical attempt by someone who previously crowdfunded to get the Leave result overturned to interfere in the Tory leadership campaign to derail BoJo, abusing the legal process in doing so. The timing of the action isn't a co-incidence nor is the fact Gove also is not included.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:39 - May 30 with 770 viewsLuther27

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:11 - May 30 by ladyjack



Will Brexit bring about a united Ireland at a quicker rate than would otherwise have been the case ?


End of the UK? I'm pretty sure there would be instant demands for referendums...several the way things are going...in both Wales and Scotland.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:44 - May 30 with 762 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:18 - May 30 by bluey_the_blue

In theory yes, in practice, no. MPs are already held to account by the electorate after all.

In this instance, the question is was it a lie or was it sophistry - argument can be made for the latter as it ignored the rebate. Equally, what impact did it have? Is it plausible someone would have been happy paying 250m rather than 350m?

If the genuine intent is to prevent MPs "lying" then don't think many would argue against. That's not the case here though. It's a cynical attempt by someone who previously crowdfunded to get the Leave result overturned to interfere in the Tory leadership campaign to derail BoJo, abusing the legal process in doing so. The timing of the action isn't a co-incidence nor is the fact Gove also is not included.


Can we get Diane Abbott prosecuted for that time she said she wanted to employ thousands of police officers on slave labour wages?

Or when that nice Mr Blair said Iraq was brimming with weapons of mass destruction?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:53 - May 30 with 716 viewssg1912

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:44 - May 30 by Highjack

Can we get Diane Abbott prosecuted for that time she said she wanted to employ thousands of police officers on slave labour wages?

Or when that nice Mr Blair said Iraq was brimming with weapons of mass destruction?


We can’t mention that, it’s morally bankrupt or whataboutism.. or something to call out Left Wing hypocrisy.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:38 - May 30 with 687 viewsBatterseajack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:53 - May 30 by sg1912

We can’t mention that, it’s morally bankrupt or whataboutism.. or something to call out Left Wing hypocrisy.


Nothing stopping you crowd funding a legal challenge to either of these.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:42 - May 30 with 685 viewsBytholWyn

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:18 - May 30 by bluey_the_blue

In theory yes, in practice, no. MPs are already held to account by the electorate after all.

In this instance, the question is was it a lie or was it sophistry - argument can be made for the latter as it ignored the rebate. Equally, what impact did it have? Is it plausible someone would have been happy paying 250m rather than 350m?

If the genuine intent is to prevent MPs "lying" then don't think many would argue against. That's not the case here though. It's a cynical attempt by someone who previously crowdfunded to get the Leave result overturned to interfere in the Tory leadership campaign to derail BoJo, abusing the legal process in doing so. The timing of the action isn't a co-incidence nor is the fact Gove also is not included.


So politicians can do what they wish because they're held to account by the electorate? That is a seriously poor argument.

The question of whether it's a lie or sophistry is for the courts to decide - but there's a case to answer, and it's good for the health of our democracy that the case will be heard. As you say, whether the publicised figure was £250 million, £350 million or any other figure in the same ballpark, probably wouldn't have made much of a difference to the impression made on the public. But that's not the point - the point here is whether it's acceptable for public figures to repeat lies or distortions of the truth when they're fully, and demonstrably aware of the inaccuracy of their pronouncements.

The motivation of those taking this action is irrelevant. If there is a case to answer it should be heard without fear or favour. If Gove is believed to have transgressed in the same way he should face the same action.

There is a serious danger of us going down the same route as the United States where politicians can lie on a daily basis and face no consequences. That assumes we haven't already gone down that route.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:09 - May 30 with 661 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:53 - May 30 by sg1912

We can’t mention that, it’s morally bankrupt or whataboutism.. or something to call out Left Wing hypocrisy.


Careful with those matches around that strawman.

If only Bliar hadn't been widely condemned and Labour abandoned by voters in their droves you may have a point.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:16 - May 30 with 654 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:13 - May 30 by ladyjack

The huge story from last week was the Brexit party topping the polls in Wales and in England, although the solid remain parties combined beat the combined solid leave parties, does that point to remain winning any potential second referendum ? - who knows and nobody knows what Labour and the Conservatives stand for.
What is the future of the Brexit party [or is it a company ?], if we leave the EU will they disband ?, they apparently don't even have a manifesto at this stage.

The big story in Wales that is flying under the radar is that Plaid beat Labour as well as the Tories and Lib-Dems last week, if that upward curve can be repeated in other elections then the political landscape in Wales might be about to change .


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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:21 - May 30 with 648 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:16 - May 30 by Jango



Didn’t anybody vote Labour?
Typical Brexiteer - twisting facts to fit their narrative.
[Post edited 30 May 17:24]

Poll: Who is responsible for the Brexit fiasco?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:23 - May 30 with 645 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:16 - May 30 by Jango



Ah yes, the ‘add them up including Conservative voters as all leave and ignoring Labour voters completely’ chart when every poll shows Labour votes as overwhelmingly remain.

This sort of nonsense doesn’t help you know.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:24 - May 30 with 644 viewssg1912

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:21 - May 30 by longlostjack

Didn’t anybody vote Labour?
Typical Brexiteer - twisting facts to fit their narrative.
[Post edited 30 May 17:24]


It’s parties that have declared their position on Brexit.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:25 - May 30 with 642 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:24 - May 30 by sg1912

It’s parties that have declared their position on Brexit.


A complete nonsense then.

Poll: Who is responsible for the Brexit fiasco?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:25 - May 30 with 642 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:44 - May 30 by Highjack

Can we get Diane Abbott prosecuted for that time she said she wanted to employ thousands of police officers on slave labour wages?

Or when that nice Mr Blair said Iraq was brimming with weapons of mass destruction?


The 8 year long Chilcot inquiry (funded by tax payers to the tune of £13m) passed you by then?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:28 - May 30 with 635 viewssg1912

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:25 - May 30 by longlostjack

A complete nonsense then.


About as nonsensical as adding parties up to spin a multi issue election as comparable with a single issue referendum.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:28 - May 30 with 632 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:24 - May 30 by sg1912

It’s parties that have declared their position on Brexit.


So it proves nothing then?

Labour declared their position as completely anti no deal before the election, so it’s certainly not the mandate for that.

Brexit party declared their position as completely against the withdrawal agreement before the election so it’s not the mandate for that.

What’s left? Oh yes...
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:30 - May 30 with 622 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:28 - May 30 by sg1912

About as nonsensical as adding parties up to spin a multi issue election as comparable with a single issue referendum.


The ones trying to make it a proxy are leavers. The adding up bit is simply refuting the nonsense being spouted.

But it’s either a single issue election or it isn’t. It can’t be a single issue election for the brexit party and not for anyone else as the voters were the same population of people.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:32 - May 30 with 615 viewssg1912

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:28 - May 30 by londonlisa2001

So it proves nothing then?

Labour declared their position as completely anti no deal before the election, so it’s certainly not the mandate for that.

Brexit party declared their position as completely against the withdrawal agreement before the election so it’s not the mandate for that.

What’s left? Oh yes...


A 30% turnout election isn’t a mandate for anything?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:33 - May 30 with 610 viewssg1912

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:30 - May 30 by londonlisa2001

The ones trying to make it a proxy are leavers. The adding up bit is simply refuting the nonsense being spouted.

But it’s either a single issue election or it isn’t. It can’t be a single issue election for the brexit party and not for anyone else as the voters were the same population of people.


Why would Leavers need a proxy for a vote they have already won?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:33 - May 30 with 608 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:32 - May 30 by sg1912

A 30% turnout election isn’t a mandate for anything?


As I said before the election and repeated after the election.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:37 - May 30 with 599 viewstrinityann

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:39 - May 30 with 588 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:33 - May 30 by sg1912

Why would Leavers need a proxy for a vote they have already won?


Because (a) the information available at the time of the referendum and on which the referendum was based has been proven to be both deeply flawed and incomplete, and (b) that flawed and incomplete information has given rise to a fundamental disagreement in what ‘leave’ actually implies, meaning the original referendum question was overly simplistic to the point of irrelevance.
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