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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1036092 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:41 - Jun 1 with 1349 viewschad

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:13 - Jun 1 by WarwickHunt

OK. Look up "apples" and then "oranges".

Compare. Contrast.


Good to see an understanding that oranges are not the only fruit ;)

But i take your point, gross incompetence (at the best) that harms the country and serious political meddling with fake news in a post that the country should be able to rely upon as being totally impartial

v

an underestimate written on the side of a bus that responsibly accounts for the EUs top level stated intention to remove all rebates (in full knowledge of vetos which already did not preclude Blair from giving up a significant amount of our hard fought for rebate).

Given we have willingly submitted our proverbial balls to the EU vice and given if we remain, the majority party of our MEPs for years to come are committed to exiting the expansionist, centrally controlled, globalism driven, factionalised club. Then I have little doubt the EU club will get its way.

Most especially as we are by far the major recipient of rebates, and for the most part other rebates are just adjusters to limit the detrimental effects of our rebates on other countries contributions.

I am sure the politically naive will be back to meaninglessly debate the dictionary definition of the word veto, of which I think we are all aware.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:50 - Jun 1 with 1335 viewsWingstandwood

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:08 - Jun 1 by Jango

You seem to have missed the part where he said his sister has a specialist role in the NHS. Or is it a case of only listen to those who agree with you?


Front page headline and in page 8 of today's SWEP a story about ambulance queues, on page 5 another major story saying that a new centre for lung speciality for the locality could fall through because of staffing concerns.

There is a serious 'resources to demand' crisis going on.
[Post edited 1 Jun 16:02]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:02 - Jun 1 with 1316 viewsJackSomething

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:50 - Jun 1 by Wingstandwood

Front page headline and in page 8 of today's SWEP a story about ambulance queues, on page 5 another major story saying that a new centre for lung speciality for the locality could fall through because of staffing concerns.

There is a serious 'resources to demand' crisis going on.
[Post edited 1 Jun 16:02]


I don't think anyone is denying that the NHS is in crisis. What some are doing is questioning why that is and not swallowing the explanation that it's all down to immigration.
[Post edited 1 Jun 16:06]

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:17 - Jun 1 with 1281 viewsWingstandwood

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:02 - Jun 1 by JackSomething

I don't think anyone is denying that the NHS is in crisis. What some are doing is questioning why that is and not swallowing the explanation that it's all down to immigration.
[Post edited 1 Jun 16:06]


This article puts it in a nutshell, it's the sheer volume of number that has increased pressure on public services. When things are manageable and where there is balance just like the way things operated years ago, there would be no problem.

Money is influential also i.e. hence why Birmingham Council is begging for more from the government.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/plea-emergency-help-45000-ne
[Post edited 1 Jun 15:18]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:18 - Jun 1 with 1279 viewschad

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:52 - Jun 1 by LeonWasGod

Yeah, it’s not as if it needed £50bn of QE to ease the shock, hit household budgets due to the crash in the value of the pound, saw economic growth compromised by about a half, saw financial organisations move staff and about a £TRILLION of assets out of London to the EU, compounded pressures facing many industries forcing them to postpone investment decions and announce closures, created a rift a mile wide in politics and the communities, etc.

Cameron & BoE can be criticised for highlighting the worse case predictions, for sure. They lacked nuance in reporting the whole picture of forecasts. But broadly it’s been a fecking disaster so far and is looking like it will continue to be. Most forecasts got it pretty right.


Given your previous post seems to be a good bit of demonising there without taking into account the various issues.

Interesting that the BOE admitted how badly they had got it wrong

Makes your protestations seem rather disingenuous. Or are you telling me that that Gov of BOE was unaware of the standard tool of QE when making his grossly false forecasts of special budgets being required etc.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:20 - Jun 1 with 1277 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:17 - Jun 1 by Wingstandwood

This article puts it in a nutshell, it's the sheer volume of number that has increased pressure on public services. When things are manageable and where there is balance just like the way things operated years ago, there would be no problem.

Money is influential also i.e. hence why Birmingham Council is begging for more from the government.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/plea-emergency-help-45000-ne
[Post edited 1 Jun 15:18]


IMO the problem was always going to happen, regardless of immigration or not.

NHS as it is was never designed or intended to scale the way it's required to do so now - even more so when people feel entitled to demand "treatment" about any minor issue.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:14 - Jun 1 with 1243 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:50 - Jun 1 by Wingstandwood

Front page headline and in page 8 of today's SWEP a story about ambulance queues, on page 5 another major story saying that a new centre for lung speciality for the locality could fall through because of staffing concerns.

There is a serious 'resources to demand' crisis going on.
[Post edited 1 Jun 16:02]


And this is all down to immigration?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:30 - Jun 1 with 1235 viewsWingstandwood

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:14 - Jun 1 by exiledclaseboy

And this is all down to immigration?


Not entirely no, but unless additional funding comes from somewhere the last thing the NHS would want is additional pressure. Like I said previously a population increase of many more millions is a frightening prospect. If things are bad now? What will it be like in 25 years time? It would be great if the U.K had the financial resources to pump into infrastructure cos there would be no problem at all then. But there again I suspect there is not much money about?

There is a Labour M.P and close associate of Dennis Skinner who is Brexit out of concern about the predicted future population increase. It's all about balance that used to be there a few decades back, in times when nobody outside of the chattering classes/political anorak type(s) never even mentioned the EU. Something has obviously gone wrong?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:19 - Jun 1 with 1168 viewsBytholWyn

Whilst immigration can cause short-term issues in some hot spots, you really have to look at this in a balanced way - and acknowledge that immigration will barely impact on some areas (often affluent ones) whilst simultaneously impacting heavily on others (often poorer neighbourhoods). So the fact that there may be some difficulties in parts of Birmingham (but not in others as the article states) shouldn't be taken as representative of the whole. Immigration to Wales in particular is much lower than in the UK as a whole, with EU residents accounting for less than 3% of the population. Only an outright racist would see that level of immigration as problematic.

As far as the hot spots are concerned - where are these people coming from? Given how EU net migration has dramatically declined since 2016, whereas immigration (and refugees) from non-EU countries has risen in recent years, it's almost certain that the majority (perhapsin the region of three quarters) of these migrants are from outside the EU. So how does Brexit address any immigration concerns? Recent stats have shown that net migration from the EU8 (Poland, Czech Repuplic, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, Lavtiva, Lithuania and Slovenia) is near to zero. Net migration from the EU2 (Romania and Bulgaria) is also on a downward trajectory. The long-term outlook for EU net immigration is one of further decline - especially as the EU2 countries (like the EU8 have already done) catch up economically. The bottom line is - for those who are concerned about immigration to conflate the issue with EU membership reveals either their ignorance or their deliberate misrepresentation of reality.

There may well come a time in the not too distant future when we will regret the disappearance of EU citizens - because they are younger than the indigenous population (and so make fewer demands on the health services), because they are working age and contribute disproportionately to health care and care sector staff, and because they contribute more to the tax system than they take out in benefits. A big factor in the struggles of the NHS and care system (apart from the biggy of massive under-investment compared to other developed countries) is a problem with recruitment. Posts in the North Wales Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board are going unfilled literally for years, in spite of recruitment drives in this country, the EU and beyond. This not only contributes to long waiting times, but also to the increased reliance on Locum staff - who are paid more than their contracted counterparts. Hence the massive overspend in Betsi and elsewhere. A huge problem that only proper levels of investment can overcome, although the hot potato of concentrating specialist services in one location will need to be grasped as well.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:55 - Jun 1 with 1148 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:19 - Jun 1 by BytholWyn

Whilst immigration can cause short-term issues in some hot spots, you really have to look at this in a balanced way - and acknowledge that immigration will barely impact on some areas (often affluent ones) whilst simultaneously impacting heavily on others (often poorer neighbourhoods). So the fact that there may be some difficulties in parts of Birmingham (but not in others as the article states) shouldn't be taken as representative of the whole. Immigration to Wales in particular is much lower than in the UK as a whole, with EU residents accounting for less than 3% of the population. Only an outright racist would see that level of immigration as problematic.

As far as the hot spots are concerned - where are these people coming from? Given how EU net migration has dramatically declined since 2016, whereas immigration (and refugees) from non-EU countries has risen in recent years, it's almost certain that the majority (perhapsin the region of three quarters) of these migrants are from outside the EU. So how does Brexit address any immigration concerns? Recent stats have shown that net migration from the EU8 (Poland, Czech Repuplic, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, Lavtiva, Lithuania and Slovenia) is near to zero. Net migration from the EU2 (Romania and Bulgaria) is also on a downward trajectory. The long-term outlook for EU net immigration is one of further decline - especially as the EU2 countries (like the EU8 have already done) catch up economically. The bottom line is - for those who are concerned about immigration to conflate the issue with EU membership reveals either their ignorance or their deliberate misrepresentation of reality.

There may well come a time in the not too distant future when we will regret the disappearance of EU citizens - because they are younger than the indigenous population (and so make fewer demands on the health services), because they are working age and contribute disproportionately to health care and care sector staff, and because they contribute more to the tax system than they take out in benefits. A big factor in the struggles of the NHS and care system (apart from the biggy of massive under-investment compared to other developed countries) is a problem with recruitment. Posts in the North Wales Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board are going unfilled literally for years, in spite of recruitment drives in this country, the EU and beyond. This not only contributes to long waiting times, but also to the increased reliance on Locum staff - who are paid more than their contracted counterparts. Hence the massive overspend in Betsi and elsewhere. A huge problem that only proper levels of investment can overcome, although the hot potato of concentrating specialist services in one location will need to be grasped as well.


Great post. Long term people have a right to be concerned about what the 'project' looks like, but trusting the Snake Oil crew of the Rees - Moggs & Farage coupled with clueless cùnts like Francois,Raab and Davis is beyong me.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 06:21 - Jun 2 with 1079 viewsKilkennyjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:55 - Jun 1 by waynekerr55

Great post. Long term people have a right to be concerned about what the 'project' looks like, but trusting the Snake Oil crew of the Rees - Moggs & Farage coupled with clueless cùnts like Francois,Raab and Davis is beyong me.


Good to see the Brexit idiots called out for what they are.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:58 - Jun 2 with 1050 viewsexiledclaseboy

Reduce migration, f*ck the NHS up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/02/foreign-nurses-target-cut-from-n

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:35 - Jun 2 with 1036 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:58 - Jun 2 by exiledclaseboy

Reduce migration, f*ck the NHS up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/02/foreign-nurses-target-cut-from-n


Take back control, British jobs for British workers etc etc.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:11 - Jun 2 with 1022 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:58 - Jun 2 by exiledclaseboy

Reduce migration, f*ck the NHS up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/02/foreign-nurses-target-cut-from-n


Vote Tory, f*ck the NHS up.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Jun 2 with 989 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:55 - Jun 1 by waynekerr55

Great post. Long term people have a right to be concerned about what the 'project' looks like, but trusting the Snake Oil crew of the Rees - Moggs & Farage coupled with clueless cùnts like Francois,Raab and Davis is beyong me.


Who said anybody trusts them?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Jun 2 with 976 viewsmajorraglan

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:58 - Jun 2 by exiledclaseboy

Reduce migration, f*ck the NHS up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/02/foreign-nurses-target-cut-from-n


The solution is quite straight forward and I can’t understand why Government don’t grasp the nettle and start to deal with the problem. Making nursing a more attractive career would be a good start. Training and recruiting more U.K. citizens to become nurses will reduce the reliance on “migrant” workers.

As things stand, to become a qualified registered nurse in England you have to complete a degree in nursing, it’s a 3 year course and tuition fees are £9k per year plus there’s accommodation etc, in essence we are looking at around £40k of debt per student. Once qualified, nurses start on a salary of £23k, it is a stressful job and on top of the difficult nature of the job the NHS is under massive financial pressures. In Wales, it’s slightly different because the WAG pay the tuition fees on the condition that the student nurse works in the Welsh NHS for 2 yeas after qualifying which is a big bonus.
Previously, the NHS also used to part fund courses such as radiography because they New the students would be working for the NHS, but that’s all gone out the window. If we are serious about having a tidy NHS, then we are going to have to have a mature conversation about how it’s funded and about introducing sensible staff recruiting and retention strategies.
[Post edited 2 Jun 14:42]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:21 - Jun 2 with 944 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Jun 2 by majorraglan

The solution is quite straight forward and I can’t understand why Government don’t grasp the nettle and start to deal with the problem. Making nursing a more attractive career would be a good start. Training and recruiting more U.K. citizens to become nurses will reduce the reliance on “migrant” workers.

As things stand, to become a qualified registered nurse in England you have to complete a degree in nursing, it’s a 3 year course and tuition fees are £9k per year plus there’s accommodation etc, in essence we are looking at around £40k of debt per student. Once qualified, nurses start on a salary of £23k, it is a stressful job and on top of the difficult nature of the job the NHS is under massive financial pressures. In Wales, it’s slightly different because the WAG pay the tuition fees on the condition that the student nurse works in the Welsh NHS for 2 yeas after qualifying which is a big bonus.
Previously, the NHS also used to part fund courses such as radiography because they New the students would be working for the NHS, but that’s all gone out the window. If we are serious about having a tidy NHS, then we are going to have to have a mature conversation about how it’s funded and about introducing sensible staff recruiting and retention strategies.
[Post edited 2 Jun 14:42]


Couldn't agree more. The NHS should be removed from being a political football altogether and a cross party body with health professionals and patients' representatives should have the adult conversation and agree funding levels and a long term policy whoever's in government.

I'd do the same with education as well but I suppose I live on fantasy island.

We have plenty of applicants for the nursing degree in Swansea which is ranked in the top 2 in the UK. I know because I'm involved in the interview process.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:16 - Jun 2 with 905 viewsandrew

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:58 - Jun 2 by exiledclaseboy

Reduce migration, f*ck the NHS up.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/02/foreign-nurses-target-cut-from-n


You do realise that we can choose who comes here?

If we need nurses we’ll bring in nurses.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:30 - Jun 2 with 894 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:17 - Jun 1 by Wingstandwood

This article puts it in a nutshell, it's the sheer volume of number that has increased pressure on public services. When things are manageable and where there is balance just like the way things operated years ago, there would be no problem.

Money is influential also i.e. hence why Birmingham Council is begging for more from the government.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/plea-emergency-help-45000-ne
[Post edited 1 Jun 15:18]


In one area, so that needs attention and nobody would deny that. But extrapolating that case to the whole country is daft. And where have those immigrants come from? On the national scale EU migrants tend to be younger, put less pressure on local services and contribute more in taxes than the average for uk nationals.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:38 - Jun 2 with 890 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:18 - Jun 1 by chad

Given your previous post seems to be a good bit of demonising there without taking into account the various issues.

Interesting that the BOE admitted how badly they had got it wrong

Makes your protestations seem rather disingenuous. Or are you telling me that that Gov of BOE was unaware of the standard tool of QE when making his grossly false forecasts of special budgets being required etc.


The BoE clearly shouldn’t have pushed the worse case so hard, I said as much. They’re stupid for doing so, and Osborne. But that doesn’t change the fact that the impacts have been negative, even with QE. This Brexit project is simply not positive. People arguing pedantically over precisely how bad it’s been so far is neither here nor there. Strikes me as obfuscation to deflect from the reality that’s it’s a very stupid thing to do for many reasons.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:34 - Jun 6 with 759 viewsladyjack

Leanne Wood talks about austerity breaking British politics and not Brexit.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:57 - Jun 6 with 742 viewsladyjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Jun 2 by majorraglan

The solution is quite straight forward and I can’t understand why Government don’t grasp the nettle and start to deal with the problem. Making nursing a more attractive career would be a good start. Training and recruiting more U.K. citizens to become nurses will reduce the reliance on “migrant” workers.

As things stand, to become a qualified registered nurse in England you have to complete a degree in nursing, it’s a 3 year course and tuition fees are £9k per year plus there’s accommodation etc, in essence we are looking at around £40k of debt per student. Once qualified, nurses start on a salary of £23k, it is a stressful job and on top of the difficult nature of the job the NHS is under massive financial pressures. In Wales, it’s slightly different because the WAG pay the tuition fees on the condition that the student nurse works in the Welsh NHS for 2 yeas after qualifying which is a big bonus.
Previously, the NHS also used to part fund courses such as radiography because they New the students would be working for the NHS, but that’s all gone out the window. If we are serious about having a tidy NHS, then we are going to have to have a mature conversation about how it’s funded and about introducing sensible staff recruiting and retention strategies.
[Post edited 2 Jun 14:42]


They cant get people to work in certain areas, the Welsh offer inducements but people don't want to work in rural areas, a major problem is where doctors come from and the type of people doctors are [their background], perhaps not the same with nurses but it is with doctors they come from the suburbs and go to certain schools in most cases and train in cities and then they want to stay in the cities and live in the suburbs, they often don't come from rural areas and don't want to live and work in places that are alien to them and have a lack of facilities as they might see it both professionally and privately.
Apparently its a problem the World over not just as regards health professionals but the movement of people in general, we have city states all over the World people are choosing in some cases to move to the smoke and in most other cases have to move to the smoke for economic reasons the countryside is being left and forgotten about.
[Post edited 6 Jun 11:01]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:41 - Jun 6 with 683 viewssherpajacob

The end of democracy in the UK?. Indeed it could be.


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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:45 - Jun 6 with 676 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:41 - Jun 6 by sherpajacob

The end of democracy in the UK?. Indeed it could be.


https://mobile.twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1136321562917965826


To be fair, their actual strap line was:

'Take Back Control So We Can Do What The ERG Want Without Recourse To Our Democratically Appointed Representatives. Oh, And The Judges Who Enforce Our Laws Are Enemies Of The People Too.'

But that was too long to fit on a bus. Only natural they would have shortened it
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:51 - Jun 6 with 664 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Jun 2 by majorraglan

The solution is quite straight forward and I can’t understand why Government don’t grasp the nettle and start to deal with the problem. Making nursing a more attractive career would be a good start. Training and recruiting more U.K. citizens to become nurses will reduce the reliance on “migrant” workers.

As things stand, to become a qualified registered nurse in England you have to complete a degree in nursing, it’s a 3 year course and tuition fees are £9k per year plus there’s accommodation etc, in essence we are looking at around £40k of debt per student. Once qualified, nurses start on a salary of £23k, it is a stressful job and on top of the difficult nature of the job the NHS is under massive financial pressures. In Wales, it’s slightly different because the WAG pay the tuition fees on the condition that the student nurse works in the Welsh NHS for 2 yeas after qualifying which is a big bonus.
Previously, the NHS also used to part fund courses such as radiography because they New the students would be working for the NHS, but that’s all gone out the window. If we are serious about having a tidy NHS, then we are going to have to have a mature conversation about how it’s funded and about introducing sensible staff recruiting and retention strategies.
[Post edited 2 Jun 14:42]


Absolutely. A sensible argument for once on this thread. We treat NHS workers like crap, so it's no wonder it's a struggle to appoint.

There needs to be a mechanism to facilitate some incoming nurses for training, as we've a lot of agreements with other countries to provide training (nothing wrong with that, as we're seen as leaders). But you have to have the core staff here as well. It should be valued as a career choice and treated as such by the government.

But they're not alone, so should teachers, etc., We seem to sh*t on may of our core public service workers, nurses, teachers, etc. And the Tories for years have conditioned people to look down on them (see the comments we get on sometimes about how work-shy public sector workers are).
[Post edited 6 Jun 14:43]
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